Pete Rose...

Yes

I agree, For what he did on the diamond as a player.

Oh, the joy of getting at least one Major League hit, let alone over 4000.

"judge not, and ye shall not be judged"


I don't condone players seeking an edge by bending or breaking the rules, but I admire their passion at times. They are drawn, or motivated to be considered one of the best of all times. Pete Rose, not my favorite player based on tools is the All-time hit leader. If he is black-balled, so should others, but then again, who am I to Judge?

If they got out the Asterisks, they can break down the eras to many.

Dead ball
Live Ball
Pre-1919
Mound Height
Gambling, in any era
Juiced baseballs
Steroids
Ash bat
Maple Bat
Pre-free agency
Post-free agaency
Pre-expansion
Post-expansion(dilution of talent)

*************Yikes****************

Pete Rose probably had an addiction

Ty Cobb hated black people

The steroid folks were not addicted, except to money and fame, I suppose they had a choice!!

I grew up watching and idolizing Pete Rose for his play on the field. I think he's a colossal jerk off the field and that's not even talking about the gambling.

I still vote Yes.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:

Ty Cobb hated black people

[QUOTE]

And Barry Bonds hates white people. That should be just as bad, right?

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:

Ty Cobb hated black people

[QUOTE]

And Barry Bonds hates white people. That should be just as bad, right?

I personally don't give a rats aaaaaaasssss about Ty Cobb, or Barry Bonds............they mean absolutely nothing to me. Both were/are flaming idiots. So is Pete Rose!!

Yes, he should be inducted.

It is impossible to talk about baseball without talk about Pete Rose. So he deserved to be in the hall of fame.

Pete Rose has more hits than anyone in the history of baseball. He was banned because of gambling. Everyone knows both of those things.

So put him in the Hall of Fame and on his plaque mention both things! Case closed!

They can do the same with Bonds when the time comes.

You shouldn't keep the greatest players out of the Hall of Fame. Should you?

Is OJ in the football hall of fame?

Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb are both in the HOF and they were caught trying to fix a game and both guys had to give up their MGR's jobs as a penalty. Since the black sox scandal had only been 7 years before and the jerk Commissioner Landis did not want the heat to come down on him because he was supposed to be the man who brought baseball back from its dark past, he let it ride and slapped them on the wrist.

Baseball let Steve Howe back in after "7" suspensions for cocaine.

Without Rose, the HOF is not complete. They have his bats and balls that he set records with, but not him. It is a phony place without the best players being admitted.

The Baseball Hall of Fame is not relevant without Pete Rose

Definitely yes. Pete belongs in the HOF for what he did as a player. He went at full speed all the time.

Yes put Charlie Hustle in…and Shoeless Joe.

OLDSLUGGER8… you forgot the Spitball Era

It's simple. Yes he should be in the Hall of Fame. The day AFTER he dies.
He agreed to a lifetime ban to save him all the shame of his hundreds of bets within a short time, and then all the lying and covering up he tried to do...
Sure he goes into the hall... he'll be there for your kids to see... after he's dead.
note: when i was in hs I LOVED Pete.

Yes, the HOF is incomplete without him. He should be in now. My dad took us to many games in Cincinnati in the 70's to see Pete and the rest of the big red machine , and I know that had to spark my love of baseball.

No. No. No.

No way. He broke baseball's cardinal rule and at the same time thought he was bigger than the game.

Absolutely not.

Pete is banned for his lifetime, so the he never gonna be on any HOF ballots anyways.

Most HOF players have said if Pete gets voted in they would never attend any HOF cermonies again.

For those with a selective memory. The commish office offered to keep this quiet and get Pete help. Pete told them screw you, I can do anything I want. Then Bart came in and followed the rules. You bet on baseball you are gone, EVER PLAYER KNOW THIS.

Please stop making excuses for people that do drugs, gamble, steriods,and DWI's.

There are numerous players in the HOF who have shady pasts to say the least---Rose should be in based on what he did on the field---nobody played harder than he did

quote:

It's simple. Yes he should be in the Hall of Fame. The day AFTER he dies.
He agreed to a lifetime ban to save him all the shame of his hundreds of bets within a short time, and then all the lying and covering up he tried to do...
Sure he goes into the hall... he'll be there for your kids to see... after he's dead.
note: when i was in hs I LOVED Pete.

There is some merit to that. But has being dead helped others who were banned? Shoeless Joe?

inducted, indicted - who cares?

Actually I believe that Pete Rose has earned a spot in the HOF, but it may still be in the best interests of the game for him not to get in during his lifetime. Players gambling on the game nearly destroyed baseball and baseball will never forget although most fans probably have.

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Most HOF players have said if Pete gets voted in they would never attend any HOF cermonies again.

I wasn't aware of that! That should be reason to ban them as well! I've heard some hall of famers say that he belongs. So which Hall of Famers are running the show?

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Please stop making excuses for people that do drugs, gamble, steriods,and DWI's.

WHO has made a single excuse for him?

Unless the fact he has more hits than anyone else is considered an excuse.

He gambled... He was wrong... He has been penalized. I think he belongs in the Hall and his ban from MLB for gambling should be prominently displayed for everyone to see for eternity!

Odd thing about all this… For the Pete Rose haters!

Keeping him OUT of the hall is actually keeping him IN the lime light! For himself, I can’t figure out how he would benefit from induction. So long as they keep records… There he is (right at the top)! Or should they ban him in the official record book too.

Anyway, to keep all this in perspective… We all have many more important things to worry about than whether Pete Rose is in the Hall of Fame.

Yes he should be in.

I'm a big fan of Pete Rose, but I find myself having a hard time defending him. As a manager he bet on the games he was managing. It really doesn't get any lower or more corrupt than that. Period.

The one thing that keeps baseball and all other pro sports from sinking to the level of Pro Wrestling is the belief that the outcome is not predetermined, that both sides are fighting for victory. Take away that and you have the excitement of the All-Star game or spring training. The very survival of the sport is at stake.

The no gambling rule takes precedence over all the other rules put together. You can be be a cheater, a hater, a son of a b*tch, a criminal or a baffoon and baseball will move along just fine. Every era has had them and forgotten them. But the two incidents involving betting on games will never go away.

Every participant involved in the game must respect the no gambling rule and expect no forgiveness if they break it. Permanant(yes permanant) disbarrment, shame and disgrace must be the only future a bettor has to contemplate when deciding to do what Pete Rose did. The last thing a player should be thinking is that Pete was forgiven so I will be too.

I know I am asking a lot in today's forgive and forget world, but if baseball can only send one message, if they can only get one thing right, it should be "YOU GAMBLE, YOU'RE GONE!"


As for the accusation in a previous post about Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker being caught fixing a game, nothing could be further from the truth. A player, Dutch Leonard, whom had pitched for Cobb and had a history with both men, made these bogus charges. Judge Landis suspended both Cobb and Speaker while the matter was investigated. The case was dismissed when Leonard never showed up for the hearing Landis had called for. Of course, Leonard didn't have a shred of evidence to support his allegation.

Both Cobb and Speaker were rightly exonerated and the venerable Connie Mack saw to it that both men were brought back into baseball. In his autobiography, Cobb states that he had many offers from teams but chose to play for Mr. Mack.

As to the comment that Cobb was a racist, it would be nice if people could give Cobb, a man who started his career 100 years ago, a break and name a more modern racist when trying to make a point. Bonds would be a good person, or maybe John Rocker.

Lets forgive Pete, baseball will need forgiveness for a lot of people in the near future. He already repents and I think he already paid enough penitence. Now baseball needs him and his history, his complete history including the price he had to pay to be forgave. Lets ask for a baseball amnesty as the beginning of a new era.

Pete belongs in the Hall. Period. The man was one of the defining players of his generation.

Did he bet on baseball? Yes. Baseball has long tried to steer clear of any kind of gambling, to the point that Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were suspended from baseball for associating with casinos..but they were reinstated 2 years later.

Do a little research on the connections between Joe Dimaggio, gambling, and organized crime figures like Sam Giancana and Salvatore Trafficante. Dimaggio was interviewed by NY Police after a Mob figure he visited earlier in the day was gunned down, and he lied repeatedly to their questions. But they let it go..because he was Joe Dimaggio.

ARod gets tied up in illegal late night poker games, and it gets brushed off. Las Vegas keeps making convincing arguments to move a team there. Anyone with money and the right connections can log onto the internet and gamble to their hearts content. Times have changed.

What Pete did was wrong...but he's admitted he made a mistake. He belongs in the Hall. Bud Selig appears incapable of making any kind of decision regarding Barroid Bonds, but at least he can do the right thing for the game and make Pete eligible again.

That would put the voting in the hands of the sportswriters, who I don't have any faith in, but at least he'd have a chance.

Does Peter Edward Rose deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Absolutely. Should he be inducted in the Hall of Fame, Absolutely Not! He bet on baseball, this is an absolute no no in baseball. In every clubhouse across the nation, there are posted warnings about betting on baseball. Let's let Shoeless Joe Jackson into the Hall of Fame also. Pete was an incredible ballplayer, one of the greatest ever. No doubt. But don't compare Betting on Baseball to steriod use. Prior to the recent testing of steriods, it was not illegal. Does this make steriod use right, absolutely not, but don't compare steroid use to betting. They are apples and oranges. If you want to compare steroid use to loading up a baseball or corking a bat, ok. But not to betting. That is the Holy Grail of Baseball Sins, ever since the Black Sox scandal. Will Pete Rose ever be elected to the Hall of Fame? Don't bet on it!

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Prior to the recent testing of steriods, it was not illegal.

Steroid use has been illegal in MLB since 1991. MLB just chose not to enforce the rule. Here's the memo from then Commissioner Fay Vincent.
http://www.businessofbaseball.com/docs/1991Memo_Basebal...evention_Program.pdf

The HOF has as among it's esteemed members drug users (Ferguson Jenkins), and drug dealers (Orlando Cepeda).

Rose belongs in the Hall.

Posted in every clubhouse:

Rule 21(d):
BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.
Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

Fergie jenkins??? Come on man...

Pete Rose should be in the HOF. But, he should never be allowed to work or participate in any MLB game or activity

He bet on the game that is strictly forbidden and as stated in an earlier post it is posted on every locker room. Every player knows what the penalty is. However maybe just maybe if he admitted it from day one there might be an outside chance for some sort of leniency.

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As for the accusation in a previous post about Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker being caught fixing a game, nothing could be further from the truth. A player, Dutch Leonard, whom had pitched for Cobb and had a history with both men, made these bogus charges. Judge Landis suspended both Cobb and Speaker while the matter was investigated. The case was dismissed when Leonard never showed up for the hearing Landis had called for. Of course, Leonard didn't have a shred of evidence to support his allegation.

Both Cobb and Speaker were rightly exonerated and the venerable Connie Mack saw to it that both men were brought back into baseball. In his autobiography, Cobb states that he had many offers from teams but chose to play for Mr. Mack.

Actually, Leonard did have proof. He had letters written by Cobb and Smokey Joe Wood detailing gambling plans. Cobb and Speaker were forced to resign as manager/player managers by AL President Ban Johnson because of the allegations. Landis sat on the gambling info, and didn't release it immediately, even though media speculation of a cover-up was growing. That led to a power struggle between Landis and Johnson, which Landis won. Landis already had public opinion against him because of disagreements between himself and Babe Ruth, so he was basically appeasing baseball fans by letting Speaker and Cobb off of the hook.

It's amazing how quickly history is forgotten.

No. Period. Not if their going to whine about McGuire and Bonds.

Pete Rose played the game the way the game was intended to be played, he put the hard in HARDBALL. The man excelled at the major league level playing with the spirit and enthusiasm of a college kid, something the game is seriously devoid of today. You want your kid to emulate someone's game, block ESPN on your TV sets and pop some tapes of Pete Rose and the big red machine in the VCR.

The HOF is not complete without him.

quote:

Originally posted by 2seamer:

quote:

As for the accusation in a previous post about Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker being caught fixing a game, nothing could be further from the truth. A player, Dutch Leonard, whom had pitched for Cobb and had a history with both men, made these bogus charges. Judge Landis suspended both Cobb and Speaker while the matter was investigated. The case was dismissed when Leonard never showed up for the hearing Landis had called for. Of course, Leonard didn't have a shred of evidence to support his allegation.

Both Cobb and Speaker were rightly exonerated and the venerable Connie Mack saw to it that both men were brought back into baseball. In his autobiography, Cobb states that he had many offers from teams but chose to play for Mr. Mack.

Actually, Leonard did have proof. He had letters written by Cobb and Smokey Joe Wood detailing gambling plans. Cobb and Speaker were forced to resign as manager/player managers by AL President Ban Johnson because of the allegations. Landis sat on the gambling info, and didn't release it immediately, even though media speculation of a cover-up was growing. That led to a power struggle between Landis and Johnson, which Landis won. Landis already had public opinion against him because of disagreements between himself and Babe Ruth, so he was basically appeasing baseball fans by letting Speaker and Cobb off of the hook.

It's amazing how quickly history is forgotten.

2seamer, it is even more amazing at how you have changed history. There were NO letters. In Tris Speaker's biography, the supposed fixing of the game took place under the bleachers in a meeting between Speaker, Cobb, Smokey Joe Wood and Leonard. But, as I posted earlier, when Judge Landis summoned Leonard to a hearing on the matter, he never showed up. Leonard is the only one who ever spoke of a fix. There is no evidence anywhere that there were letters proving any fix of a game between Cobb and Speaker's teams. Not to mention that it would be beyond stupid to write letters about fixing a game. It doesn't even make sense. Also, the power struggle between Landis and Johnson had started years earlier and Landis had already told the AL owners that it was him or Johnson. The AL owners were already ticked at Johnson for a previous accusation he made about other players gambling that were untrue. Landis exonerated those players as well and the AL owners had already warned Johnson to behave himself. After the Cobb incident, The AL owners, knowing Johnson was in ill health, put him on an indefinite sabbatical.

I don't want to sound like a Cobb apologist here because he was no saint. But there are more incorrect, unflattering and accusatory stories out there that trash Cobb than there are about all other players put together. This incriminating story is just one of many.

Did Pete betting on baseball enhance his ability as a player? Did it have anything to do with his ability as a player? HOF is about performance on the field while you are a player. He put up HOF numbers and he played the game the way it is supposed to be played. His actions after he left the game as a player should have nothing to do with him being in the HOF. Now as far as the guys that used performing enhancing drugs? I say you have to wonder if they would have put up HOF numbers without them dont you? Those should be the guys that are in question not Pete Rose. This is just my opinion everyone has one.

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2seamer, it is even more amazing at how you have changed history. There were NO letters. In Tris Speaker's biography, the supposed fixing of the game took place under the bleachers in a meeting between Speaker, Cobb, Smokey Joe Wood and Leonard. But, as I posted earlier, when Judge Landis summoned Leonard to a hearing on the matter, he never showed up. Leonard is the only one who ever spoke of a fix. There is no evidence anywhere that there were letters proving any fix of a game between Cobb and Speaker's teams. Not to mention that it would be beyond stupid to write letters about fixing a game. It doesn't even make sense.

All I can tell you is to do the research. Smokey Joe Wood is the one that apparently wrote the letters. The game in question that was bet on was Cleveland vs Detroit. Leonard, who had been released by Detroit, sold the letters to the owner of the Tigers for $20,000, and used that to open a vineyard in California. He didn't show up in Chicago to testify before Landis because he was worried about getting killed..which was a distinct possibility, with all of the organized crime in Chicago at that time.

2Seamer wrote:

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research. Smokey Joe Wood

Not trying to hijack thread but from what I read about Wood, he was the "Real Deal"!!! peace shep

PS(Coach Gilmore at Coastal Carolina taught a nasty 2seamer that helped many reach the Bigs when he was at USC-Aiken; not to mention his pitchers at Coastal!)

Yeah Shep, from what I've read about him, apparently he could really bring the heat. It's a shame that more video doesn't exist of many of the great players from the past. Someone posted somewhere here an old clip of Bob Feller throwing, and man, he looked effortless.

Pete Rose is in the record books as a result of his performance on the field.

Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame as a result of his performance on the field....Period!