is there a way to get into the pg cross checker rankings or the baseball america rankings without paying?
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That would be called stealing. And no, I am not joking. These lists are proprietary information and there is no reason on earth why you should expect to get them for free.
For Pete's sake, they don't charge that much!
For Pete's sake, they don't charge that much!
haha relax midlo. he was just wondering.
yeah thanks kaymart i was just wondering...for petes sake
I hate a thief.
Usually what you get for nothing is worth nothing !!!!
In the past if a player asked where he was rated a webster with the service would pm him with his ranking.
I think it's OK to help a guy know his individual ranking, but I don't think it's OK to expect folks to give you access to the whole shootin' match without your paying for it. I'm amazed that folks seem to think this is no big deal. I can assure you that if you had an information-based product you were selling, it would be a very big deal to you indeed. But we always tend to see it only from the perspective of what WE want at the moment, and not from where the other guy stands.
If you just want to know your own ranking, you should try asking PG. My bet is they'll tell you right away.
If you just want to know your own ranking, you should try asking PG. My bet is they'll tell you right away.
To me this is no different that downloading copies of music - or installing software that you "borrow" from a friend. Either way, it is using the intellectual property of someone else without paying for it.
If someone wants to know how they stand, contact PG. Otherwise, pay the subscription. PG doesn't gather that information for free - and giving it away breaks their business model.
If someone wants to know how they stand, contact PG. Otherwise, pay the subscription. PG doesn't gather that information for free - and giving it away breaks their business model.
You gotta love the "can you get into the PG Crosschecker rankings" phrase----sure smacks of asking how to "hack" into the site doesn't it !
Perhaps I should be a "nice" guy and send him my password !!! LOL
Perhaps I should be a "nice" guy and send him my password !!! LOL
Ok I understand his "get into" the site may be a bit much but...I would have been interested in know Son's ranking if it was available "legally" at no charge. I know a friend called me last year and told me "unsolicted" that my Son was ranked by BA...but for me I did not see the value of spending $120 to see just see where he stood. I do see the value if you are one who likes to follow everyone or like TR is involved with players.
So I'm going to make the assumption that "get em" was just asking and not trying to defraud or hack into CIA database.
Too many times (myself included) we jump on someone and dog pile on them. The guys a newbie with 6 posts...give him a break. The site has been tremendously helpful to me and most poster have been helpful and did not make me feel like I stepped in a pile of dog**** for asking or saying the wrong thing.
So I'm going to make the assumption that "get em" was just asking and not trying to defraud or hack into CIA database.
Too many times (myself included) we jump on someone and dog pile on them. The guys a newbie with 6 posts...give him a break. The site has been tremendously helpful to me and most poster have been helpful and did not make me feel like I stepped in a pile of dog**** for asking or saying the wrong thing.
Thanks Novice. He's right I was just asking. I dont have a son or anything, I just watch a lot of baseball in the Texas area and was wondering about some kids I have seen.
I see you follow baseball in California, too. More than just a neighborhood dad, eh?
Give me a break!
Give me a break!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I think it's OK to help a guy know his individual ranking, but I don't think it's OK to expect folks to give you access to the whole shootin' match without your paying for it. I'm amazed that folks seem to think this is no big deal. [QUOTE]
I agree Midlo...
I think it's OK to help a guy know his individual ranking, but I don't think it's OK to expect folks to give you access to the whole shootin' match without your paying for it. I'm amazed that folks seem to think this is no big deal. [QUOTE]
I agree Midlo...
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Give me a break!
Somebody got out on the wrong side of the bed yesterday.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Give me a break!
Why don't you give him a break instead. The guy was trying to save a few bucks. I would venture to guess that you have broken the law by speeding, or by ripping the tag off of your mattress, or by taping a baseball game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball. You have made your point, move on.
Put me down for getting out of bed on the wrong side two days in a row - I don't see anything right about what get em was asking nor anything wrong with what Midlo is saying.
Perhaps it is because I make my living in the software business - and take intellectual property rights seriously. Yes I have been known to speed, and I do rip mattress tags off (which by the way is not illegal - read the tag sometime) and I do tape major league baseball games (which is also not illegal as long as you make a single copy for personal use).
What I don't do nor can I condone anyone else doing it is make copies of other's work and give it to third parties.
Perhaps it is because I make my living in the software business - and take intellectual property rights seriously. Yes I have been known to speed, and I do rip mattress tags off (which by the way is not illegal - read the tag sometime) and I do tape major league baseball games (which is also not illegal as long as you make a single copy for personal use).
What I don't do nor can I condone anyone else doing it is make copies of other's work and give it to third parties.
quote:Why don't you give him a break instead. The guy was trying to save a few bucks.
This pseudo-justification almost makes me sadder than the original question...which also made me sad.
I'm with 08dad and Midlo...stealing is stealing even if a friend gives you the stolen goods. It was a ridiculous question to begin with that shouldn't have been asked. Period.
JustBB,
I am mixed on this.
I agree that no one should piggyback a subscription. However, I seen many times on this site that portions of articles have been copied and posted to give kudos to a player, or a team. Then again, I have not requested, but have been sent a copy or "snipit" of an article that has mentioned my son. However, with that said, there is a limit to the madness. I don't think that a request from a "follower" of baseball requesting data is right. If it was a dad wondering if his son was mentioned I don't see an issue.....once. Any parent who's son is mentioned in a publication or just a "follower" of baseball should probably expect it to happen again and pony up for the hardcopy.
I am mixed on this.
I agree that no one should piggyback a subscription. However, I seen many times on this site that portions of articles have been copied and posted to give kudos to a player, or a team. Then again, I have not requested, but have been sent a copy or "snipit" of an article that has mentioned my son. However, with that said, there is a limit to the madness. I don't think that a request from a "follower" of baseball requesting data is right. If it was a dad wondering if his son was mentioned I don't see an issue.....once. Any parent who's son is mentioned in a publication or just a "follower" of baseball should probably expect it to happen again and pony up for the hardcopy.
I don't post subscription material...anywhere. Its not right. I don't request subscription material from anyone. Its not right either. When someone has told me in the past about something that costs $$ to see that I might be interested in...occasionally I have paid for it, other times I just miss out.
I cannot control what someone sends me. Thats their choice.
If its a dad wanting his son's ranking, he should email PG. I suspect they'd give it to him, but thats their choice to make, not mine.
I am not the ethics police, just offering my opinion.
I cannot control what someone sends me. Thats their choice.
If its a dad wanting his son's ranking, he should email PG. I suspect they'd give it to him, but thats their choice to make, not mine.
I am not the ethics police, just offering my opinion.
PG doesn't gather that information for free - and giving it away breaks their business model.
You are absolutely right 08Dad, it costs us parents lots of money to send our kids to the showcases and line them up so PG can rate our kids and then sell us the info.
These rankings don't mean a whole lot, it's mostly to make us parents and players feel good about themselves. The pro's don't care much what PG feels about a player. That came directly from a scout.
Save your money. This from someone who got suckered into it last year.
You are absolutely right 08Dad, it costs us parents lots of money to send our kids to the showcases and line them up so PG can rate our kids and then sell us the info.
These rankings don't mean a whole lot, it's mostly to make us parents and players feel good about themselves. The pro's don't care much what PG feels about a player. That came directly from a scout.
Save your money. This from someone who got suckered into it last year.
quote:The pro's don't care much what PG feels about a player. That came directly from a scout.
From my own firsthand experience, this just isn't so. True, some scouts feel this way and CERTAINLY scouts want to see the player firsthand...themselves. But to say they don't care about PG's ratings? I don't agree with that...its what puts a lot of players on the map and gets the scouts to their games in the first place...after that, the scout's and his organization's own evaluations are what counts. They rely on lots of sources, PG being one of the more prominent, to figure out who to watch. Are we just talking semantics here?
quote:Save your money. This from someone who got suckered into it last year.
I don't subscribe to it...but what exactly does this comment mean? You know what it is...a list of players. How is it you get suckered into it? A list is a list...if you expected more, you didn't read the directions I would guess? If you didn't agree with the list, then I suppose you might feel suckered...but you took that risk didn't you?
Agree with Jbball POV completely.
There is a silver lining of promotional value that goes with "leaking" articles. Many people that subscribe to an online publication do so as a result of being "leaked" an article to begin with. From a promotional angle you will not see many publishers get to bent out of shape because it is a very cheap form of advertizing to promote the publication with many times having a positive return.
BA and other publications give a free copy as subscription bait. The leak to the public is free.
There is a silver lining of promotional value that goes with "leaking" articles. Many people that subscribe to an online publication do so as a result of being "leaked" an article to begin with. From a promotional angle you will not see many publishers get to bent out of shape because it is a very cheap form of advertizing to promote the publication with many times having a positive return.
BA and other publications give a free copy as subscription bait. The leak to the public is free.
Perfect game is a door opener as far as I am concerned. I don't have any expectations that a pro scout or college coach would rely on the report as more than a screening mechanism.
Our experience thus far has been that the colleges do look at the reports - and use them as part of the recruiting screening process.
Our experience thus far has been that the colleges do look at the reports - and use them as part of the recruiting screening process.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:quote:Why don't you give him a break instead. The guy was trying to save a few bucks.
This pseudo-justification almost makes me sadder than the original question...which also made me sad.
I'm with 08dad and Midlo...stealing is stealing even if a friend gives you the stolen goods. It was a ridiculous question to begin with that shouldn't have been asked. Period.
I never once justified what he was trying to do. It is absolutely wrong. I just never see the point in continuing to hammer on someone, make your point and move on.
And 08Dad, I am sorry that my attempt at humor was missed by you.
"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at get em"
And as far as whether or not the service is worth the money, it is priceless information and PG's track record speaks for itself.
spinedoc - I goof up, we all goof up. I am not perfect...but I strive to be better than yesterday...we all do don't we?
The point is that today we seem to get caught up in semantics. 'If I hack into the site, then clearly I'm stealing,' but 'if someone will give me the contents of the site, well then I really didn't do anything wrong...did I?...it was their choice, wasn't it?'
Thats the mindset a lot of times now. Its not right. I don't see hammering here...I see a bad request (a "goof up") followed by a couple of posters calling him on it...followed by other posters saying "back off!"
This is exactly how people come to justify what they see as a 'vicimless crime.' Its wrong. Lets just call a spade a spade...a goof-up a goof-up and move on as you say...without all of the justification and vicitimzation of the orginial request. The request shouldn't have been made...he goofed up.
BTW, I'm glad you see it as wrong too. That wasn't clear from your earlier post.
The point is that today we seem to get caught up in semantics. 'If I hack into the site, then clearly I'm stealing,' but 'if someone will give me the contents of the site, well then I really didn't do anything wrong...did I?...it was their choice, wasn't it?'
Thats the mindset a lot of times now. Its not right. I don't see hammering here...I see a bad request (a "goof up") followed by a couple of posters calling him on it...followed by other posters saying "back off!"
This is exactly how people come to justify what they see as a 'vicimless crime.' Its wrong. Lets just call a spade a spade...a goof-up a goof-up and move on as you say...without all of the justification and vicitimzation of the orginial request. The request shouldn't have been made...he goofed up.
BTW, I'm glad you see it as wrong too. That wasn't clear from your earlier post.
Very nice post justbaseball
Respectful, yet your point is well made. I apologize if I went about mu point in the wrong manner.
Respectful, yet your point is well made. I apologize if I went about mu point in the wrong manner.
And I apologize that I apprently read it the wrong way...happens sometimes with internet communications. 
quote:And I apologize that I apprently read it the wrong way...happens sometimes with internet communications
Now if the Left Coast and Nebraska can meet on the "Peace Bridge"
.quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
And I apologize that I apprently read it the wrong way...happens sometimes with internet communications.
And I'm sorry that I also read it the wrong way - that first cup of coffee had not yet kicked in...
08
I don't subscribe to it...but what exactly does this comment mean? You know what it is...a list of players. How is it you get suckered into it? A list is a list...if you expected more, you didn't read the directions I would guess? If you didn't agree with the list, then I suppose you might feel suckered...but you took that risk didn't you?
An ex-teammate of my sons told him he was ranked in the top 100 for his class. The site advertised as having scouting reports as well and updates(which happen every blue moon), I forget how often they said, neither of which we could access and we did pay for. This particular site is very hard to navigate and get around to the info I was looking for.
You know what? Go ahead and spend your hard earned money then you can spend the next year feeling like YOU got ripped off.
BTW, I was quite pleased with where my son was ranked, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the big picture.
An ex-teammate of my sons told him he was ranked in the top 100 for his class. The site advertised as having scouting reports as well and updates(which happen every blue moon), I forget how often they said, neither of which we could access and we did pay for. This particular site is very hard to navigate and get around to the info I was looking for.
You know what? Go ahead and spend your hard earned money then you can spend the next year feeling like YOU got ripped off.
BTW, I was quite pleased with where my son was ranked, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the big picture.
Seedthrower,
Which site/service are you talking about.
pgcrosschecker.com is about 6 months old now. It is updated often and very easy to navigate.
Scouts and College Coaches account for the majority of subscribers. The vast majority (all) the complaints come from parents! The scouts and recruiters must care about these lists or why else pay for them?
It doesn't matter what they say... What matters is what they do!
I actually hate doing rankings. It takes a lot of time and it's a lot of work. We don't just pick them out of a hat, you know. We do it for scouts and college recruiters. If they didn't use them, it would be a waste of time and money.
The history of our lists and rankings shows a very good track record. Afterall, in most cases we are ranking them before colleges and the draft get involved. After looking at the results, how could any scout or college recruiter think they are not useful? There have been MLB clubs that have sent orders from the front office to their scouts to never miss a player on our list. Someone is keeping track of the results!
Anyway, best of luck to your talented son. We will be following him closely. I'm somewhat surprised by your comments, especially your need to post the negative stuff. But you're welcome to your opinion.
Which site/service are you talking about.
pgcrosschecker.com is about 6 months old now. It is updated often and very easy to navigate.
Scouts and College Coaches account for the majority of subscribers. The vast majority (all) the complaints come from parents! The scouts and recruiters must care about these lists or why else pay for them?
It doesn't matter what they say... What matters is what they do!
I actually hate doing rankings. It takes a lot of time and it's a lot of work. We don't just pick them out of a hat, you know. We do it for scouts and college recruiters. If they didn't use them, it would be a waste of time and money.
The history of our lists and rankings shows a very good track record. Afterall, in most cases we are ranking them before colleges and the draft get involved. After looking at the results, how could any scout or college recruiter think they are not useful? There have been MLB clubs that have sent orders from the front office to their scouts to never miss a player on our list. Someone is keeping track of the results!
Anyway, best of luck to your talented son. We will be following him closely. I'm somewhat surprised by your comments, especially your need to post the negative stuff. But you're welcome to your opinion.
Whooooah there gentlemen,..wow,..its definately the "off season " isnt it?? Looks like its fairly " new posters " huntin' season too!!!
I think its great to be honest with an answer or opinion,..even if its a passionately heated response, but a little grouchiness can go a looong way and can even possibly lead a new poster to perhaps feel attacked or awkward for asking a question. Not exactly the point I think the HSBBW was intending to portray when setting this website up. We're supposed to be here to help,..not slam doors in people's face.
Certain questions may seem silly or wrong to others,..but IMO if you choose to respond, you should be civil, not accusatory.
Thats what makes this country so beautiful. The freedom of free speech and freedom to ask questions.
I have yet to hear a sincere stupid question.
( Whoaaa,...I musta been typing reaaaally slow cause like 5 reponses came in before I got mine up. ) Looks like you all are working things out!
Pie anyone?
I think its great to be honest with an answer or opinion,..even if its a passionately heated response, but a little grouchiness can go a looong way and can even possibly lead a new poster to perhaps feel attacked or awkward for asking a question. Not exactly the point I think the HSBBW was intending to portray when setting this website up. We're supposed to be here to help,..not slam doors in people's face.
Certain questions may seem silly or wrong to others,..but IMO if you choose to respond, you should be civil, not accusatory.
quote:It was a ridiculous question to begin with that shouldn't have been asked. Period.
Thats what makes this country so beautiful. The freedom of free speech and freedom to ask questions.
I have yet to hear a sincere stupid question.
( Whoaaa,...I musta been typing reaaaally slow cause like 5 reponses came in before I got mine up. ) Looks like you all are working things out!
Pie anyone?
Sorry ssmom...I respect your opinion and enjoy your posts, but I just really don't know how to respond to that one. I need to take a deep breath and probably shouldn't say any more. 
Just baseball,...I enjoy your posts & do indeed respect your opinions too, very much so.
Guess the holidays are just getting so close that I'm kinda standing back in a mellow mood and hoping we can all get along.
I wish you a continued great day!!
( not saying I agree with seedthrower,... just speaking in generalities to the tone of some posts who responded to his question! )
Guess the holidays are just getting so close that I'm kinda standing back in a mellow mood and hoping we can all get along.
I wish you a continued great day!!
( not saying I agree with seedthrower,... just speaking in generalities to the tone of some posts who responded to his question! )
Fair enough. I get it.
okay, I really hope this doesn't come across as a stupid question, but here goes...is the PG cross checker list made up ONLY of players that have attended a PG event? Please don't be too harsh in your responses. Thanks!
Here's a naive question - Is the only way to get your son listed in CrossChecker is to perform at a PG Showcase?
Catch15 - No, but it helps in the sense that they would have seen you play. Otherwise, they would have had to hear about you from others...which happens quite often.
quote:Originally posted by Catch15:
okay, I really hope this doesn't come across as a stupid question, but here goes...is the PG cross checker list made up ONLY of players that have attended a PG event? Please don't be too harsh in your responses. Thanks!
NO..........But they would need to see the player at some other event they cover, such as USATOS
ECPS/AreaCode I would imagine