Has anybody seen the list? I've been told there are some DFW kids on it.
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PG was correct in including the asterik, as it only includes players who have recently attended some sort of PG Event. It is a solid list, but not complete.
Someone put this up for us on the Virginia Preps website. Thanks and enjoy.
The new top 500 list has arrived for the class of 2008 according to Perfect Game / pgcrosschecer.....I will have the Virginia list shortly....
Top 500 '08 High School Prospects
Please Read!
This is the first extensive list of the high school 08 class. This list will be continually updated with new players and players changing position in the rankings. The next big update will take place in January after the big Underclassman showcases in Florida and California. The 08 class will be updated often, right up until the 2008 draft.
If anyone is aware of a player who belongs on the list, but is not yet in the rankings, please notify Perfect Game or pgcrosschecker.com Please send comments to staff@perfectgame.org
Coming soon… The 2009 High School rankings!
Rank Name Pos Ht Wt B T High School Hometown St College Commitment
= EDITED BY MODERATOR =
Sorry folks, but I don't think we have permission to post this list. I was told by a parent on this board that the list is available by subscription only. I will contact PGStaff for further clarification, but please be careful about posting copyrighted materials here.
MN-Mom
The new top 500 list has arrived for the class of 2008 according to Perfect Game / pgcrosschecer.....I will have the Virginia list shortly....
Top 500 '08 High School Prospects
Please Read!
This is the first extensive list of the high school 08 class. This list will be continually updated with new players and players changing position in the rankings. The next big update will take place in January after the big Underclassman showcases in Florida and California. The 08 class will be updated often, right up until the 2008 draft.
If anyone is aware of a player who belongs on the list, but is not yet in the rankings, please notify Perfect Game or pgcrosschecker.com Please send comments to staff@perfectgame.org
Coming soon… The 2009 High School rankings!
Rank Name Pos Ht Wt B T High School Hometown St College Commitment
= EDITED BY MODERATOR =
Sorry folks, but I don't think we have permission to post this list. I was told by a parent on this board that the list is available by subscription only. I will contact PGStaff for further clarification, but please be careful about posting copyrighted materials here.
MN-Mom
Where's my kids name on the Top 500.
Guess I should have payed my $500
Guess I should have payed my $500
Knowing some of these kids makes this list quite interesting. I'm wondering... it's Top 500, so I'm guessing the rest is just missing? I must say, the order/placement of some of the names is quite intriguing compared to common thought in the "summer baseball world".
I think it's best for me to just bite my lip -- OUCH! 
<-- Swingdoc, it hurts when I do that!
<-- Swingdoc, it hurts when I do that!quote:126 Matt Lackie
RHP C 6-3 210 R R McKinney North McKinney TX
Big strong 6'3 RHP, upper 80s, 3 pitches, good blood lines
OP,
Did he get the good blood line from his Mother
Congrats to OPson.
PD- You might have to bite that delete finger in this one... or just let it roam free.
You would be surprised by how much attention is paid by college recruiters to these lists.
They all have them and use them. When visiting schools they were definitely visible when you sat down in recruiting coach office. They have what you would call a draft board with the targeted players
listed and pg ranking next to name. They will use every available resource to come up with prospect list.
They all have them and use them. When visiting schools they were definitely visible when you sat down in recruiting coach office. They have what you would call a draft board with the targeted players
listed and pg ranking next to name. They will use every available resource to come up with prospect list.
Obviously, it is important to consider the source of the list and the process used to "rate" players. Without question, it is biased towards those that attend PG events -- which is understandable. The list is far from comprehensive. And you have to pay to see it. Of the 380+ '08 kids that were listed here last night, there were 12-15 from DFW. Since we are all experts, my DFW top-ten list would include 5-6 of those listed by PG, and several that were not. Anyone want to pay to see my list?
Caution parents ----- we all want to see our kids receive recognition ----- we all want to see their names on lists. But, remember to use this site as a source of reference during the recruiting process. Don't get hung up on lists, or striving to make sure your son's name appears -- despite their impressive sounding names/descriptions. Pick your summer team based on what's best for your family and use all resources available to you, including your high school coaches.
Congratulations to those that made this list. Is it spring yet?
-PD
Disclaimer: this post is not intended to criticize Perfect Game or those that are associated with PG, their events, or their affiliates. Obviously, they are in the business of providing a service to those that choose to invest in their events, camps, showcases, teams, etc. I certainly recognize their value in the process of evaluating young baseball players.
Caution parents ----- we all want to see our kids receive recognition ----- we all want to see their names on lists. But, remember to use this site as a source of reference during the recruiting process. Don't get hung up on lists, or striving to make sure your son's name appears -- despite their impressive sounding names/descriptions. Pick your summer team based on what's best for your family and use all resources available to you, including your high school coaches.
Congratulations to those that made this list. Is it spring yet?
-PD
Disclaimer: this post is not intended to criticize Perfect Game or those that are associated with PG, their events, or their affiliates. Obviously, they are in the business of providing a service to those that choose to invest in their events, camps, showcases, teams, etc. I certainly recognize their value in the process of evaluating young baseball players.
While these lists are fun to look at and often amusing please don't fret if your child is not on the LIST!!! I had the same questions when the list came out and my son was not listed in the top ANYTHING (2005) We never went to any paid events such as Perfect Game. Then when last years draft came around and he got the call that he had been drafted (after missing his senior year with ACL surgery) As it turned out my son was on a list (the one that counts!!!!)
Great story txdad.
PD- I agree highly with everything in your post and I'm glad you said it.
I also would like to say that a player knowing his ability and having reasonable expectations for college would help (I'm talking about in general for the recruiting process). If you have a good understanding of where you can play, then these lists don't serve as much of anything (to you personally) than to kind of compare yourself to kids you may very well play against, with, or even start over on the same team. I found it semi-amusing, semi-insightful and semi-not 500 (I had to come up with three, I apologize for the last one).
PD- I agree highly with everything in your post and I'm glad you said it.
I also would like to say that a player knowing his ability and having reasonable expectations for college would help (I'm talking about in general for the recruiting process). If you have a good understanding of where you can play, then these lists don't serve as much of anything (to you personally) than to kind of compare yourself to kids you may very well play against, with, or even start over on the same team. I found it semi-amusing, semi-insightful and semi-not 500 (I had to come up with three, I apologize for the last one).
Another thing to understand is that these lists get expanded as time goes on. I don't know if I would call it a "bias", but certainly they can only rank players they have scouting reports on.
Having kids we know on the 2007 list, it's been interesting to see their ranks fall off as the year wears on. They aren't getting rated any worse, and they aren't falling relative to others who've been listed for a while. It's just that, as lots of new names get seen and crack the lists, they push other kids further and further down.
Most of the kids you're thinking have been overlooked will get their due, in due time, as more and more info gets out there on them.
Having kids we know on the 2007 list, it's been interesting to see their ranks fall off as the year wears on. They aren't getting rated any worse, and they aren't falling relative to others who've been listed for a while. It's just that, as lots of new names get seen and crack the lists, they push other kids further and further down.
Most of the kids you're thinking have been overlooked will get their due, in due time, as more and more info gets out there on them.
You know… I never know how to respond to these things. Most would suggest no response at all, but many of the comments bother me. For example…
This gets old and it’s very insulting to both us and the many outstanding players who are listed!
The truth is… more than half of those ranked in the top 200 have not paid us a dime! The truth is… Thousands of players have paid the $500 or more and are not on the list! The truth is… We have much too much pride to be dishonest! Furthermore…. The truth is… We DO make mistakes, especially when ranking players that are two draft/recruiting classes in the future. And… The truth is… We wish everyone would look at the lists as they get closer to the draft and see how accurate they are.
The Truth is we run the event that has PROVEN to have the most talent over the past 5 years (Perfect Game National) and it is held in June without tryouts or the summer to find players. For the most part, these players are selected before their Junior year. Ask anyone who closely follows these things and they will tell you the PG National last year was the most talent ever at a showcase event. For the non believers… Please wait until this years draft and check for yourself! Or if you like check this link out for a head start… PG National Early signs
I really wish people knew about the many cases involving player rankings where it would have been a very good but dishonest business decision to rank a certain player or award a certain player. We have never given in to the temptation including losing a $100,000+ sponsorship deal in one such situation.
PD,
This is a low blow that I didn’t expect from you.
Yes… PLEASE DO CONSIDER THE SOURCE! (What's That???) The source is people who see some 50,000 players each year with the largest network in all of scouting. There is absolutely NO BIASE involved EVER!!!!!! If this list is far from comprehensive, why do so many College Coaches and MLB Scouts pay to see it. Furthermore, check to see how many colleges will use the lists. In other words check the **** results!
Of course, it is easier to evaluate players that come to our events. We see thousands of players from all over the country at our events and WWBA/BCS Tournaments. Of course, we don’t claim to be 100% correct all the time, let alone a year and a half before players graduate from high school. Those who have followed our lists for years understand they change a lot as we continue the process. In fact, we have several names to add this month.
PD… If you have an interest in helping these kids… Why not send us your suggestions. We will pay for them once we understand your expertise. Once we have a name, it’s very easy for us to check out a player. Especially if he’s in the DFW area. Wait!... You don’t think these lists are very important. But, being on the list won't actually harm anyone even if they don't need it.
I could give you hundreds of instances of just how important these lists are. Here is just one… In 2003 there was a pitcher in Kansas pretty much unknown outside the Wichita area. He was not on anyone’s list including ours. Someone emailed us about him and his ability. We checked him out and found out more. We went to his HS game and saw what we needed and ranked him immediately in the top 30 in his class. The number of calls we got was unbelievable. His very next start, had 12 MLB Scouting Directors watching him pitch. Before he was listed (the game we were at) there were two area scouts in attendance. One was Mitch Webster (Dodgers). BTW… This same pitcher played on a top travel team in the Midwest! The travel team coach actually tried to keep him hidden. We later found out it had to do with a relationship with a certain college. The LIST changed all those plans and the player ended up going in the second round.
Yes, I do think people get too caught up in the lists. But so long as the college programs and MLB Clubs place so much importance on the lists (no matter what they say) I guess they are important.
In the end, it does look like a very large number of those ranked do in fact attend PG events. (2 of every 3 draft picks last year had attended PG events), that includes those drafted out of college. It should only take common sense to figure out why that is… Who do you think we try to get to our events? Of course, we work off OUR own list, it’s the one we trust the most! So, often the player we had ranked before attending a PG event, ends up at a PG event. Is this BIASE?
In the end… I have no hard feelings, though a bit upset over this stuff. Not sure anyone understands the amount of time and effort that goes into compiling the best list we can. Yes we DO make mistakes and that’s OK. We can afford to make mistakes… We can NOT afford to make those mistakes on purpose and we surely can’t make mistakes based on someone paying us!
My suggestion to everyone who cares… Please feel free to email any suggestions, complaints, ideas, etc about players or the rankings to us. We have the ability to check most any player in the country to verify his ability. We are not in the business of playing politics when it comes to these lists. There are many good friends who have boys I’d love to put on the list. Unfortunately, it just don’t work that way and some friendships have been jeopardized as a result.
So why bother complaining… You either don’t think the lists mean anything or you do. If you DO think they are important… Wouldn’t it only make sense to go straight to the source and try to correct it on the player’s behalf. If you DON’T think the lists have any importance, why spend time complaining or even talking about them?
It is odd when the complaint is about the list rather than the fact that subscriber based information was posted. BTW, it wasn’t me that asked for the list to be deleted!
I apologize, if I seem a bit touchy on this subject… But one thing should be obvious… These lists are extremely important to me! I want them to be as accurate as possible. Most who have followed them for years already know that. And the track record stands on it’s own merits over the years. The lists are a continual work in progress.
Anyone interested in sending us information, complaints, suggestions, etc. Please email - jerry@perfectgame.org
quote:Where's my kids name on the Top 500.
Guess I should have payed my $500
This gets old and it’s very insulting to both us and the many outstanding players who are listed!
The truth is… more than half of those ranked in the top 200 have not paid us a dime! The truth is… Thousands of players have paid the $500 or more and are not on the list! The truth is… We have much too much pride to be dishonest! Furthermore…. The truth is… We DO make mistakes, especially when ranking players that are two draft/recruiting classes in the future. And… The truth is… We wish everyone would look at the lists as they get closer to the draft and see how accurate they are.
The Truth is we run the event that has PROVEN to have the most talent over the past 5 years (Perfect Game National) and it is held in June without tryouts or the summer to find players. For the most part, these players are selected before their Junior year. Ask anyone who closely follows these things and they will tell you the PG National last year was the most talent ever at a showcase event. For the non believers… Please wait until this years draft and check for yourself! Or if you like check this link out for a head start… PG National Early signs
I really wish people knew about the many cases involving player rankings where it would have been a very good but dishonest business decision to rank a certain player or award a certain player. We have never given in to the temptation including losing a $100,000+ sponsorship deal in one such situation.
quote:Obviously, it is important to consider the source of the list and the process used to "rate" players. Without question, it is biased towards those that attend PG events -- which is understandable. The list is far from comprehensive. And you have to pay to see it. Of the 380+ '08 kids that were listed here last night, there were 12-15 from DFW. Since we are all experts, my DFW top-ten list would include 5-6 of those listed by PG, and several that were not. Anyone want to pay to see my list?
Caution parents ----- we all want to see our kids receive recognition ----- we all want to see their names on lists. But, remember to use this site as a source of reference during the recruiting process. Don't get hung up on lists, or striving to make sure your son's name appears -- despite their impressive sounding names/descriptions. Pick your summer team based on what's best for your family and use all resources available to you, including your high school coaches.
PD,
This is a low blow that I didn’t expect from you.
Yes… PLEASE DO CONSIDER THE SOURCE! (What's That???) The source is people who see some 50,000 players each year with the largest network in all of scouting. There is absolutely NO BIASE involved EVER!!!!!! If this list is far from comprehensive, why do so many College Coaches and MLB Scouts pay to see it. Furthermore, check to see how many colleges will use the lists. In other words check the **** results!
Of course, it is easier to evaluate players that come to our events. We see thousands of players from all over the country at our events and WWBA/BCS Tournaments. Of course, we don’t claim to be 100% correct all the time, let alone a year and a half before players graduate from high school. Those who have followed our lists for years understand they change a lot as we continue the process. In fact, we have several names to add this month.
PD… If you have an interest in helping these kids… Why not send us your suggestions. We will pay for them once we understand your expertise. Once we have a name, it’s very easy for us to check out a player. Especially if he’s in the DFW area. Wait!... You don’t think these lists are very important. But, being on the list won't actually harm anyone even if they don't need it.
I could give you hundreds of instances of just how important these lists are. Here is just one… In 2003 there was a pitcher in Kansas pretty much unknown outside the Wichita area. He was not on anyone’s list including ours. Someone emailed us about him and his ability. We checked him out and found out more. We went to his HS game and saw what we needed and ranked him immediately in the top 30 in his class. The number of calls we got was unbelievable. His very next start, had 12 MLB Scouting Directors watching him pitch. Before he was listed (the game we were at) there were two area scouts in attendance. One was Mitch Webster (Dodgers). BTW… This same pitcher played on a top travel team in the Midwest! The travel team coach actually tried to keep him hidden. We later found out it had to do with a relationship with a certain college. The LIST changed all those plans and the player ended up going in the second round.
Yes, I do think people get too caught up in the lists. But so long as the college programs and MLB Clubs place so much importance on the lists (no matter what they say) I guess they are important.
In the end, it does look like a very large number of those ranked do in fact attend PG events. (2 of every 3 draft picks last year had attended PG events), that includes those drafted out of college. It should only take common sense to figure out why that is… Who do you think we try to get to our events? Of course, we work off OUR own list, it’s the one we trust the most! So, often the player we had ranked before attending a PG event, ends up at a PG event. Is this BIASE?
In the end… I have no hard feelings, though a bit upset over this stuff. Not sure anyone understands the amount of time and effort that goes into compiling the best list we can. Yes we DO make mistakes and that’s OK. We can afford to make mistakes… We can NOT afford to make those mistakes on purpose and we surely can’t make mistakes based on someone paying us!
My suggestion to everyone who cares… Please feel free to email any suggestions, complaints, ideas, etc about players or the rankings to us. We have the ability to check most any player in the country to verify his ability. We are not in the business of playing politics when it comes to these lists. There are many good friends who have boys I’d love to put on the list. Unfortunately, it just don’t work that way and some friendships have been jeopardized as a result.
So why bother complaining… You either don’t think the lists mean anything or you do. If you DO think they are important… Wouldn’t it only make sense to go straight to the source and try to correct it on the player’s behalf. If you DON’T think the lists have any importance, why spend time complaining or even talking about them?
It is odd when the complaint is about the list rather than the fact that subscriber based information was posted. BTW, it wasn’t me that asked for the list to be deleted!
I apologize, if I seem a bit touchy on this subject… But one thing should be obvious… These lists are extremely important to me! I want them to be as accurate as possible. Most who have followed them for years already know that. And the track record stands on it’s own merits over the years. The lists are a continual work in progress.
Anyone interested in sending us information, complaints, suggestions, etc. Please email - jerry@perfectgame.org
Ranking players is an art, not a science. Just look at all the number one draft choices of the Cowboys and Rangers the last few years that have been busts.
I think PG does a great job covering the areas they cover. Do kids get missed? Sure. Is it the nature of the beast? You bet!
Look at Tony Romo. He was missed at the HS level, the college level and the pro level. And the only reason he is playing right now is because of Shawn Payton's connection to Eastern Illinois and wanted to give him a chance.
I think PG does a great job covering the areas they cover. Do kids get missed? Sure. Is it the nature of the beast? You bet!
Look at Tony Romo. He was missed at the HS level, the college level and the pro level. And the only reason he is playing right now is because of Shawn Payton's connection to Eastern Illinois and wanted to give him a chance.
Sorry....but there are some kids on the list that simply do not belong there. $$$$$ talks doesn't it?
PGStaff -- I don't see my opinions as a low blow (any more than others here) and I can explain them in more detail in private if you want to have that discussion. But, let me start with a simple fact. There are two 2008 players (in the top 384) from the Mickey Mantle Championship team -- and one was a guest player that was probably evaluated at the fall PG wood bat championship. One of the team's best players was not listed in your top 384 despite being a 5-tool player. This may seem like a selfish view as it relates to my son's team -- perhaps it is -- but this is a high school baseball message board and my post was simply an opinion. I am not a representative of any team or organization when I post here --- just an interested HS baseball fan.
Let me make a few more points....
1) I tried to make it clear that I am not criticizing Perfect Game -- I like PG, we support PG, I understand the importance of PG. I have supported you, PGStaff, on many occasions on this forum.
2) I never said lists aren't important -- my opinion though is that those that were left off (for whatever reason) should not begin wringing their hands over this one. On one hand...you agree...on the other hand, you see my opinion as some sort of attack.
3) I will send you names. I'm sure you will hear from others as well.
4) I did not post the list -- and I understand that it is for subscriptions -- my comment about paying for my list was tongue-in-cheek --- no one in their right mind would pay for my opinion (I was joking). And no one will STOP paying because of my post.
Since I am a moderator here, I will apologize if my earlier post was offensive to some -- that was not my intent. I apologize to you, PGStaff, if my view seems overly critical to PG. Please contact me in private for further discussion.
-PD
Let me make a few more points....
1) I tried to make it clear that I am not criticizing Perfect Game -- I like PG, we support PG, I understand the importance of PG. I have supported you, PGStaff, on many occasions on this forum.
2) I never said lists aren't important -- my opinion though is that those that were left off (for whatever reason) should not begin wringing their hands over this one. On one hand...you agree...on the other hand, you see my opinion as some sort of attack.
3) I will send you names. I'm sure you will hear from others as well.
4) I did not post the list -- and I understand that it is for subscriptions -- my comment about paying for my list was tongue-in-cheek --- no one in their right mind would pay for my opinion (I was joking). And no one will STOP paying because of my post.
Since I am a moderator here, I will apologize if my earlier post was offensive to some -- that was not my intent. I apologize to you, PGStaff, if my view seems overly critical to PG. Please contact me in private for further discussion.
-PD
PD,
I get overly upset when I see posts that claim players buy their way on to our lists. It simply does not work that way. It is true, that we can not rank a player we haven't evaluated or seen. But we don't confine our scouting to PG events alone. It would probably be more "profitable" if everyone really did believe we only rank those who have paid us. It's just not the TRUTH!
Do those that attend our events have an advantage? Of course, we are less likely to miss them.
The people who know me the very best, know I don't do anything based on money. If money were the only incentive there would be no Perfect Game!
I don't think you meant to put us down, but in my world when I hear words like "You must consider the source" in a topic the writer seems to disagree with... Well I'm not very smart, but I'm not THAT stupid!
I know you are one of the good guys on this site. I've always enjoyed your input and your valuable help. It's just that sometimes things appear different when you're in the other guys shoes.
I also would respect any of your private input at anytime. We are not so good that we need no help.
Lastly, I really don't give a **** whether anyone ever subscribes to anything we do. I don't even care if people ever pay us anything. My biggest rewards have nothing to do with money, but have everything to do with honesty and young people who play baseball.
For the umpteenth time... Perfect Game is far from Perfect! In fact, Les Edgerton is writing a book about PG and we agreed that the title should be "IMPERFECT GAME"!
PD, I welcome and would respect any and all suggestions from you. Feel free to email or PM. Thanks for the clarification, my email is jerry@perfectgame.org
I get overly upset when I see posts that claim players buy their way on to our lists. It simply does not work that way. It is true, that we can not rank a player we haven't evaluated or seen. But we don't confine our scouting to PG events alone. It would probably be more "profitable" if everyone really did believe we only rank those who have paid us. It's just not the TRUTH!
Do those that attend our events have an advantage? Of course, we are less likely to miss them.
The people who know me the very best, know I don't do anything based on money. If money were the only incentive there would be no Perfect Game!
I don't think you meant to put us down, but in my world when I hear words like "You must consider the source" in a topic the writer seems to disagree with... Well I'm not very smart, but I'm not THAT stupid!
I know you are one of the good guys on this site. I've always enjoyed your input and your valuable help. It's just that sometimes things appear different when you're in the other guys shoes.
I also would respect any of your private input at anytime. We are not so good that we need no help.
Lastly, I really don't give a **** whether anyone ever subscribes to anything we do. I don't even care if people ever pay us anything. My biggest rewards have nothing to do with money, but have everything to do with honesty and young people who play baseball.
For the umpteenth time... Perfect Game is far from Perfect! In fact, Les Edgerton is writing a book about PG and we agreed that the title should be "IMPERFECT GAME"!
PD, I welcome and would respect any and all suggestions from you. Feel free to email or PM. Thanks for the clarification, my email is jerry@perfectgame.org
My question to PGStaff would be, how much interaction do you have with these kids summer coaches and high school coaches? Or even coaches around the area. I say this because there are names that I would think would be higher, lower, in different order if this contact was made (maybe it is, that's why I'm asking). Also, I'm curious (I want to strain that none of this is an attack, it's truly helping me understand the system) how much of this list is potential. Obviously I haven't seen well over half of these kids play---or at least I don't know it--- but does the kid who is 6ft. 5 and throws 93 and yet can't throw a strike ranked higher than the 6ft 0in kid throwin 87 who can place the ball wherever he wants? I think the recruiting process is based very heavily on potential, and one name on that list has thrived through the years on his unbelievable potential (I have personal knowledge to call it potential, I'm not trying to insult the player-he's fun to watch- but for the time being, I call it potential). And it's essential that these coaches see what kids project to be, so I don't blame you. Once again, I'm very curious. I have no jealousy towards this list, and for those of you who are smart enough to figure out who I'm refferring to when I say this, I'd consider it a joke if one short pitcher was on that list, know that I have no problem with it. I appreciate very much what PG has done, I am curious to how many conversations, with coaches who see the player day in and day out, take place (I understand there may not be enough time and that's a good enough answer).
There's got to be a run-on-sentence or two in there for an english teacher to mark up. I got carried away in my thoughts.
There's got to be a run-on-sentence or two in there for an english teacher to mark up. I got carried away in my thoughts.
I'll throw my two cents in......PG had my son ranked inb the top "100" in Texas, when he had never attended a PG Showcase. This was back in 2001, I believe.
Be good,
David
Be good,
David
DTiger,
I’m glad you asked.
First allow me to say, we’ve been doing this for a long time. In fact, in a round about way, I’ve been doing this for more than twice your age. This does not make me smarter or dumber, but it does make me more experienced. This is not to say things that I always hated hearing like “I’ve forgotten more than you know”. Truth is I have forgotten most everything I’ve ever known. I do not consider myself an expert, in fact I hate that word when it comes to baseball. We are all equal experts, you can be right, I can be wrong. If you’ve seen someone play 50 times and I’ve seen him once… It is you who knows more about that player. However you and I might not be looking at exactly the same things in that player. Not sure if that makes any sense.
We interact with many summer coaches, scouts, college coaches, agents, etc. We do not interact with a large number of high school coaches. There are many great high school coaches, but as a group we have received a lot of bad information over the years.
I can tell you that most of what we do is based on potential. While we might like the 6’0 throwing 87 with great command... if we had a team. We would (in most cases) rank the 6’5 throwing 93 much higher. So would the MLB scouting departments. You called it right… It’s potential! And potential is one of the hardest things to judge with any certainty. That said, both should be ranked players and the 6’0 pitcher might easily be more highly regarded by colleges. Of course, there are other things to consider that could make a diffrence in these pitchers.
DTiger, I don’t post on the TX forum much, but I do read it a lot. I’ve come to understand, you are one very bright young man and your passion for the game is obvious. Please feel free to email me anytime, I would be more than happy to discuss baseball with you and I’d like to hear what you think about certain players. Maybe we will both learn something!
My email – jerry@perfectgame.org
Best of luck
I’m glad you asked.
First allow me to say, we’ve been doing this for a long time. In fact, in a round about way, I’ve been doing this for more than twice your age. This does not make me smarter or dumber, but it does make me more experienced. This is not to say things that I always hated hearing like “I’ve forgotten more than you know”. Truth is I have forgotten most everything I’ve ever known. I do not consider myself an expert, in fact I hate that word when it comes to baseball. We are all equal experts, you can be right, I can be wrong. If you’ve seen someone play 50 times and I’ve seen him once… It is you who knows more about that player. However you and I might not be looking at exactly the same things in that player. Not sure if that makes any sense.
We interact with many summer coaches, scouts, college coaches, agents, etc. We do not interact with a large number of high school coaches. There are many great high school coaches, but as a group we have received a lot of bad information over the years.
I can tell you that most of what we do is based on potential. While we might like the 6’0 throwing 87 with great command... if we had a team. We would (in most cases) rank the 6’5 throwing 93 much higher. So would the MLB scouting departments. You called it right… It’s potential! And potential is one of the hardest things to judge with any certainty. That said, both should be ranked players and the 6’0 pitcher might easily be more highly regarded by colleges. Of course, there are other things to consider that could make a diffrence in these pitchers.
DTiger, I don’t post on the TX forum much, but I do read it a lot. I’ve come to understand, you are one very bright young man and your passion for the game is obvious. Please feel free to email me anytime, I would be more than happy to discuss baseball with you and I’d like to hear what you think about certain players. Maybe we will both learn something!
My email – jerry@perfectgame.org
Best of luck
I, for one, can personally attest to two facts:
1) I know of two PG Top Ranked players that NEVER participated in a PG event.
2) Mr. Ford is sincere when he says you can e-mail him. He is extremely kind and helpful and is a man of his word.
1) I know of two PG Top Ranked players that NEVER participated in a PG event.
2) Mr. Ford is sincere when he says you can e-mail him. He is extremely kind and helpful and is a man of his word.
PGStaff- I don't think the long speeches are quite necessary on this site to be perfectly honest. I doubt there is any more need for any more reinforcement for the PG organization.
Whether you like it or not, PG is the best and will help you probably better than anyone else can. I constantly see people ridiculing PG for whatever reason(s) and PGStaff instantly coming in to defend himself and his organization. I understand him and agree 100% what he's doing. I just want to make it known that for every naysayer out there on this site there's a few thousand people who owe PGStaff a big whole-hearted thank you. For those of you who rant and rave angrily about PG, take a second to think about what you're really saying. Then, if you still have an issue, e-mail or PM PGStaff directly, he will definitely answer. IMO, there's no need for the public degrading of the organization, because there really isn't anything to say to PGStaff other than thank you.
Whether you like it or not, PG is the best and will help you probably better than anyone else can. I constantly see people ridiculing PG for whatever reason(s) and PGStaff instantly coming in to defend himself and his organization. I understand him and agree 100% what he's doing. I just want to make it known that for every naysayer out there on this site there's a few thousand people who owe PGStaff a big whole-hearted thank you. For those of you who rant and rave angrily about PG, take a second to think about what you're really saying. Then, if you still have an issue, e-mail or PM PGStaff directly, he will definitely answer. IMO, there's no need for the public degrading of the organization, because there really isn't anything to say to PGStaff other than thank you.
I suppose I should re-read the posts -- I missed the angry rants and raves. J H -- yer not from 'dez parts ----- we pretty much ignore Train when he drops by to rile things up.
I love to read these boards but don't always like to post. I think PG events are worth attending if finacially able but as some have commented, it is not the only way to keep playing ball. I think the rankings are a good beginning list for the top kids but don't have everyone while having some that I wouldn't personally have on the list. To me, to be one of the top 500 in the country, you need to better than most in your area and I know a few that have lower classmen ahead of them on their high school team yet are on the top 500 list. What about the players that get lessons from people connected to PG? No matter how good the kid is, people will believe that his conection has something to do with the ranking. PG, what does the word projects mean? Is it size? Is it gene pool? Are we talking the tall lanky young 08 with tall parents who needs time to fill out? Again, it is all in how you and your staff see kids and that is your job, not ours as parents. You provide a great service for baseball players and I don't think you will find many who don't at least partially agree with that. But you will also have people like me and others who raise our eyebrows on a few, which out of 500, is pretty darn good.
What bothers me about PG or any of these other events is that it does not let the average speed average throwing player get any props. I know plenty of kids who run faster, throw harder and stand taller than my son. But VERY few of them can play the game better!I realize all these kids can't be seen playing a full game, but what would Ekstien (SP?)or Greg Maddux's PG score be?
aplaondad15,
This is the weakest argument of all. How many guys like Eckstein or Maddux are in the big leagues? Not very many. They are the exception, not the rule. Professional scouts are looking for tools. If your son has average tools, then he is an average prospect and doesn't deserve "any props." He will have to scrap and fight to earn his place based on his ability to play the game. If he plays the game as well as you say, at the end of the day, he will get his due.
This is the weakest argument of all. How many guys like Eckstein or Maddux are in the big leagues? Not very many. They are the exception, not the rule. Professional scouts are looking for tools. If your son has average tools, then he is an average prospect and doesn't deserve "any props." He will have to scrap and fight to earn his place based on his ability to play the game. If he plays the game as well as you say, at the end of the day, he will get his due.
aplanodad- I empathize with your situation, and honestly, I feel like I am that situation. I show quite poorly if I say so myself in almost any kind of pro-style work out. I don't have the smooth tools or the rocket arm. I got the opportunity to sit on a plane next to a high (I don't know his official rank) scout for the... I want to say Dodgers (I could be wrong). We talked about Eckstein and he told me the one thing Eckstein did was he constantly proved people wrong. No one thought he had a chance except himself. Every time he stepped on to the field, he proved to everyone that he deserved to be there. That is the attitude I, and others like him, must take. Having said that, I am reasonable and like to say I have a good understanding of the system. I understand where my limits are and I truly feel that makes me a better player. (PD- Feel free to delete the rest of this post if you feel it's not needing to be on here) I've had great success the past 5 to 6 years in the DFW area playing baseball on argueably the best team/organization in the area (I truly think to say there is one best organization in the area is unfair-the "great" ones are all pure greatness). I have had success against many kids listed and not listed that I personally feel should be. Does that make me jealous? No, not by any stretch of my imagination do I feel that I should be there. I'm short. My best "tool" is my brain, and it's that simple. I have competed well over the years by simply being smart. I owe that to a long great line of coaches. I loved every second of playing with my "select" teams. What I'm trying to say is, everyone needs to be realistic. Not everyone is going to get a chance to play pro ball, or even college. Not everyone on that list may get that chance unfortunately. I love baseball to death, but sometimes there may be something "bigger" in life. My playing baseball over my life time has prepared me (as well as anyone can be prepared for the "real world") for life, and for that I am appreciative. When the time comes for it to end for any player, as long as they know they gave it everything they had, nothing more can be done. Plus, it's always fun to feel like someone up top is an idiot . I'm not speeking to any dad or any player and saying "you're not good enough." But I feel that sometimes life gets lost when you get so caught up in worrying if Johny is going to get noticed. Be thankful for what PG does and be thankful for the opportunity to play baseball.
Leave it all out on the field.
. I'm not speeking to any dad or any player and saying "you're not good enough." But I feel that sometimes life gets lost when you get so caught up in worrying if Johny is going to get noticed. Be thankful for what PG does and be thankful for the opportunity to play baseball. Leave it all out on the field.
And now Dtiger says very eloquently what I started to say in my previous post but chose not to:
"I'm not speeking to any dad or any player and saying "you're not good enough." But I feel that sometimes life gets lost when you get so caught up in worrying if Johny is going to get noticed."
We as parents get a whole lot more worked up about our kids getting noticed than the players do. They play and compete because they love the game. They understand that if they are good enough, they will get to keep playing, whether Jason Becker or PG or Baseball America writes about them or not.
"I'm not speeking to any dad or any player and saying "you're not good enough." But I feel that sometimes life gets lost when you get so caught up in worrying if Johny is going to get noticed."
We as parents get a whole lot more worked up about our kids getting noticed than the players do. They play and compete because they love the game. They understand that if they are good enough, they will get to keep playing, whether Jason Becker or PG or Baseball America writes about them or not.
Wow. And neither KG nor I had anything to do with starting this donnybrook. 
Regarding the top whatever list since deleted by a moderator. I'm just pleased that of the names I recognized, only one has gotten a base hit off Texan Son over the last several years that he has faced them.
Can't think of any showcase other than a PG event to which I would send Texan Son. But they are expensive, so we're still saving up the pennies.
If you think PG will help, write the check. If not, then don't. But I don't think PG deserves the badmouthing that the occasional poster partakes in. [And I do recognize that there were only one or two posters in this thread doing so. Not accusing you, PD.]
Side note: I do find it humorous that so many folks still think you can teach control to a 17/18YO who can't hit the broad side of the barn. Just as velocity can only be improved so much, IMHO control can only be improved so much without sacrificing velocity. Exceptions exist, but they are precisely that...
Regarding the top whatever list since deleted by a moderator. I'm just pleased that of the names I recognized, only one has gotten a base hit off Texan Son over the last several years that he has faced them.
Can't think of any showcase other than a PG event to which I would send Texan Son. But they are expensive, so we're still saving up the pennies.
If you think PG will help, write the check. If not, then don't. But I don't think PG deserves the badmouthing that the occasional poster partakes in. [And I do recognize that there were only one or two posters in this thread doing so. Not accusing you, PD.]
Side note: I do find it humorous that so many folks still think you can teach control to a 17/18YO who can't hit the broad side of the barn. Just as velocity can only be improved so much, IMHO control can only be improved so much without sacrificing velocity. Exceptions exist, but they are precisely that...
Uncle Ethan,
I never said PG was not a good option for some. My son will run a 7.2 60, pop a 1.9 and they will rate him with a good swing. Hence 6.9 PG rating. Why pay $500 for that. As far as your great knowledge of only exceptional athletes in the bigs or college...I say you are a ninkompoop! There are many players who don't have great speed or rocket arms in college and pros. If you have an exceptional tool or two PG is a good avenue, if you are not speedy or have a strong arm then PG probably isn't for you. To say a player (such as my son) is an average player if he doesn't posses great speed or a rocket arm is to say you don't understand baseball!
I never said PG was not a good option for some. My son will run a 7.2 60, pop a 1.9 and they will rate him with a good swing. Hence 6.9 PG rating. Why pay $500 for that. As far as your great knowledge of only exceptional athletes in the bigs or college...I say you are a ninkompoop! There are many players who don't have great speed or rocket arms in college and pros. If you have an exceptional tool or two PG is a good avenue, if you are not speedy or have a strong arm then PG probably isn't for you. To say a player (such as my son) is an average player if he doesn't posses great speed or a rocket arm is to say you don't understand baseball!
aplanodad- I will once again say I can agree that it happens. But watch out for PD. This site is not to pump up a son, it's to better understand the situations you need to put him in to have success. I didn't know PG gave 6.9 ratings... Oh! To make you feel better, coaches do put importance on the rating, but the description is equally if not more important (this is not a cold hard solid fact-one coach told me this). And honestly, aplanodad. I kind of have to disagree. I attended an event this past summer. First ever PG or even true showcase tryout. Got a rating, got a description. That entire page they put up on the internet is a page I used to send to colleges in a letter. Now I'm "in the system" and although I wish my scores were higher (we all should expect/want higher even if it's a 10), now a coach can find me there if need be. Of course, this isn't an advantage/result people think about. Their description, from two days of baseball, was surprisingly accurate. It almost shocked me how similar it was to how I describe myself-and honestly the ranking when compared to others is probably right where it should be.
DTiger,
Thanks for the info, this is not my first rodeo, I have one son in college and the oldest is in low minor league ball. I have done this before.
Thanks for the info, this is not my first rodeo, I have one son in college and the oldest is in low minor league ball. I have done this before.
quote:If you have an exceptional tool or two PG is a good avenue, if you are not speedy or have a strong arm then PG probably isn't for you.
Hello Texas!
Hmmm, Very interesting. I see (or saw) it completely opposite. Those players with exceptional tools are usually well known by the time they reach high school. I think it is the above average (but not great) player that needs the exposure that PG offers. PG is a great place to be seen and the above average players need to show off their tools. If my son were above average player but lacked exceptional tools I would make sure he didn't get lost in the shuffle.
Fungo
We can work hard to succeed of we can ease into failure.
Fungo,
PG tournament with your summer team, yes. Camp type situation, no.
PG tournament with your summer team, yes. Camp type situation, no.
PG... I understand the process you guys go through and I understand how the kids get evaluated. Right now I am completely simpathetic with DTiger and PD.. I coached a team That four the past 6 years has competed directly with there teams each summer. These coaches/players/parents all know each other very well. My specific team played in woodbat nationals in 2005 and did very well. and last year 2006 along with Dtigers team won berths to your BCS championships in Jupiter. You guys only have 1 player from our team ranked (#162) He is NOT one of our better players... He paid to attend one of your "showcases"... ???? There does seem to be some merit to your showcases vs actually playing at a high level... I will send you a list of many of the players from this area that i feel should deserve ranking. (Yes our team is loaded with 6,0 180 players throwing in the high 80's) but these kids "baseball" talent is greatly superior to some of the potential athletes that are listed.
John G,
Your list is very important, please do send. People do need to understand that the player rankings do change a lot over time.
I think our final 06 list was more accurate than our present 07 list. I'm positive our 07 list is more accurate than our 08 list. And I would expect our 08 list to be more accurate than our upcoming 09 list. As the class gets closer and closer to college or draft age, the lists are suppose to keep improving.
If anyone has ever looked at a MLB follow list, you'd see lots of names that would surprise you! If you looked at their short list, you are likely to see the same names (give or take a few) that you see in the top 100.
It should be understood, we realize we miss many outstanding players at the early stages of these lists. Once you get to a certain point, the players are somewhat interchangable. To some #500 is better than #200. An unranked player could be better than someone in the top 100.
In our latest "07" rankings we added hundreds of names. Some even in the top 200, even top 100. The same thing will happen many times over the next year and a half for the 08 class.
It has happened where people have contacted us about players who we've missed or were mistaken about. We always double check our records or check with our associates closest to them. Sometimes these are very valid points they make and we simply admit to the mistake and make the appropriate changes. Sometimes we check things out and do not agree and do not make any changes.
Your list is very important, please do send. People do need to understand that the player rankings do change a lot over time.
I think our final 06 list was more accurate than our present 07 list. I'm positive our 07 list is more accurate than our 08 list. And I would expect our 08 list to be more accurate than our upcoming 09 list. As the class gets closer and closer to college or draft age, the lists are suppose to keep improving.
If anyone has ever looked at a MLB follow list, you'd see lots of names that would surprise you! If you looked at their short list, you are likely to see the same names (give or take a few) that you see in the top 100.
It should be understood, we realize we miss many outstanding players at the early stages of these lists. Once you get to a certain point, the players are somewhat interchangable. To some #500 is better than #200. An unranked player could be better than someone in the top 100.
In our latest "07" rankings we added hundreds of names. Some even in the top 200, even top 100. The same thing will happen many times over the next year and a half for the 08 class.
It has happened where people have contacted us about players who we've missed or were mistaken about. We always double check our records or check with our associates closest to them. Sometimes these are very valid points they make and we simply admit to the mistake and make the appropriate changes. Sometimes we check things out and do not agree and do not make any changes.
DTiger,
One more thing, just for you and others that wonder.
Here is something that might interest you from about 5 years ago. I believe he played in the fall for the Dallas Tigers also.
Our first report on Isiais Garcia (2001)
Isaias Garcia 2002 2b 5’9/180 R/R St Thomas HS, Houston, TX
60 yard – 7.48 Velocity across INF – 78 mph
PG REPORT: Garcia doesn't look the part or show major league tools or size, but don't kid yourself, he's one of the best baseball players in the country. He does everything better in the game. He throws, fields and hits with the best of them. He can play at any level and be one of the best producers at that level. A real baseball player!
Now – After an outstanding college career he was drafted in the 34th round as a college senior. Not because of tools, but because of extreme playability. In his first year of pro ball he led the APPY League in hitting and was the best 2B in the league. I hope he ends up in the Big Leagues and I wouldn’t bet against him.
Sometimes things do work out.
One more thing, just for you and others that wonder.
Here is something that might interest you from about 5 years ago. I believe he played in the fall for the Dallas Tigers also.
Our first report on Isiais Garcia (2001)
Isaias Garcia 2002 2b 5’9/180 R/R St Thomas HS, Houston, TX
60 yard – 7.48 Velocity across INF – 78 mph
PG REPORT: Garcia doesn't look the part or show major league tools or size, but don't kid yourself, he's one of the best baseball players in the country. He does everything better in the game. He throws, fields and hits with the best of them. He can play at any level and be one of the best producers at that level. A real baseball player!
Now – After an outstanding college career he was drafted in the 34th round as a college senior. Not because of tools, but because of extreme playability. In his first year of pro ball he led the APPY League in hitting and was the best 2B in the league. I hope he ends up in the Big Leagues and I wouldn’t bet against him.
Sometimes things do work out.
aplanodad15,
If you will read closely, what I said was:
"If your son has average tools, then he is an average prospect"
Note that I didn't say average player. They are two very different things, as evidenced by PGStaff's post of the Garcia kid. He wasn't a tools guy, therefore he doesn't rate highly as a prospect. He continued to play and work and got his reward by being drafted. He just had to do it under the radar.
If you will read closely, what I said was:
"If your son has average tools, then he is an average prospect"
Note that I didn't say average player. They are two very different things, as evidenced by PGStaff's post of the Garcia kid. He wasn't a tools guy, therefore he doesn't rate highly as a prospect. He continued to play and work and got his reward by being drafted. He just had to do it under the radar.
Something to keep in mind, the ratings given out can be relative; they vary a lot. A prospect might recieve a higher rating than usual because the overall field he was in was lower. Conversely, a good player might recieve a lower ranking because of a high number of good players at that event. Ratings can also vary between the PG Staff themselves.
All said, PG is an excellent tool, and Jerry is a knowledgable and experienced guy.
All said, PG is an excellent tool, and Jerry is a knowledgable and experienced guy.