Does anyone know where the link to PG's ratings are? In other words if a player is graded an "8", does that mean D-1 Prospect or D-2 Prospect etc. I know that it is on the PG site but can not locate it. Thanks!
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Ratings definitions appear at the top of the profiles page for the showcase. Click on the showcase, then click on the profiles, and you will see all players listed, ratings definitions at the top.
Perfect Game USA's Player Rating System
10 -- Potential very high draft pick, Top DI in the nation prospect
9 -- Potential top 10 round pick, Top DI prospect
8 -- Potential mid round pick, definite DI prospect
7 -- Potential low round pick, DI prospect or top level Juco, DII
6 -- Possible DI prospect, definite DII or Juco prospect
5 -- Possible DII prospect or mid range Juco prospect
4 -- Possible low level DII or high level DIII prospect
3 -- Possible DIII or low level Juco prospect
2 -- Possible low level DIII prospect
1 -- No prospect at this time
10 -- Potential very high draft pick, Top DI in the nation prospect
9 -- Potential top 10 round pick, Top DI prospect
8 -- Potential mid round pick, definite DI prospect
7 -- Potential low round pick, DI prospect or top level Juco, DII
6 -- Possible DI prospect, definite DII or Juco prospect
5 -- Possible DII prospect or mid range Juco prospect
4 -- Possible low level DII or high level DIII prospect
3 -- Possible DIII or low level Juco prospect
2 -- Possible low level DIII prospect
1 -- No prospect at this time
Thanks!
You forgot one:
11 -- Absolutely no chance of playing anymore - but can spit sunflower seeds as good as anyone in the Western hemisphere.
11 -- Absolutely no chance of playing anymore - but can spit sunflower seeds as good as anyone in the Western hemisphere.
its,
11 = potential coach?
11 = potential coach?
Wouldn't that be a 0 rating? ("Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach.")
Or is that reserved for parents in the stands?
Or is that reserved for parents in the stands?
Perfect Game USA's Player Rating System
10 -- Potential very high draft pick, Top DI in the nation prospect
9 -- Potential top 10 round pick, Top DI prospect
8 -- Potential mid round pick, definite DI prospect
7 -- Potential low round pick, DI prospect or top level Juco, DII
6 -- Possible DI prospect, definite DII or Juco prospect
5 -- Possible DII prospect or mid range Juco prospect
4 -- Possible low level DII or high level DIII prospect
3 -- Possible DIII or low level Juco prospect
2 -- Possible low level DIII prospect
1 -- No prospect at this time
PG, How often would you say someone gets a rating below 6?
Do the 6's and below really have any chance of playing in college?
Is it maybe building false hope with the way the lower rankings are worded?
10 -- Potential very high draft pick, Top DI in the nation prospect
9 -- Potential top 10 round pick, Top DI prospect
8 -- Potential mid round pick, definite DI prospect
7 -- Potential low round pick, DI prospect or top level Juco, DII
6 -- Possible DI prospect, definite DII or Juco prospect
5 -- Possible DII prospect or mid range Juco prospect
4 -- Possible low level DII or high level DIII prospect
3 -- Possible DIII or low level Juco prospect
2 -- Possible low level DIII prospect
1 -- No prospect at this time
PG, How often would you say someone gets a rating below 6?
Do the 6's and below really have any chance of playing in college?
Is it maybe building false hope with the way the lower rankings are worded?
We were discussing a player that had been rated 4.5 and wondered what that meant...
bump
JDsDad,
You won't find many graded below 6 but there are lots of them. First of all the vast majority of players who attend our events are pretty talented. There really is no reason to attend if you didn't plan on playing beyond high school. In fact, I'm not sure there is any reason to attend.
That said, whenever we feel it necessary to rank someone lower than 5, we contact the players parents ahead of time to let them know. We ask them i they would prefer to not have the players profile posted. In most every case they do not want the players profile/grade posted. We've even had parents call us and want their son's grade/profile removed despite the fact we might have graded them a 7 or 7.5. They just think he is much better and has higher goals than our grade dictates. Obviously we honor all those requests.
That said our database which is never posted anywhere, does have players ranked as low as low as 2, I don't ever remember seeing a 1.
BTW, we sometimes grade players too low, based on what they ended up accomplishing. The general thinking is that we would much rather be wrong over rating someone than be wrong under rating him.
We have seen some amazing things happen to players over the years. All our grades are based on what we think their maximum potential is. Not necessarily their present ability. See how often the words potential and possible appear in those descriptions.
I've been told that more people follow our stuff on high school kids than anywhere else. Our information is available to the general public. How would you like to cut down a player and then be proven wrong.
It's a constant battle between accuracy and trying to be polite to those who attend our events. I think we do a very good job of that. It seems that college coaches and MLB scouting departments feel the same way.
That said, we do plan to redefine our grading system this coming year to more clearly describe players, with less descriptions.
Is there such a thing as "false hope"? Would someone prefer NO HOPE?
You won't find many graded below 6 but there are lots of them. First of all the vast majority of players who attend our events are pretty talented. There really is no reason to attend if you didn't plan on playing beyond high school. In fact, I'm not sure there is any reason to attend.
That said, whenever we feel it necessary to rank someone lower than 5, we contact the players parents ahead of time to let them know. We ask them i they would prefer to not have the players profile posted. In most every case they do not want the players profile/grade posted. We've even had parents call us and want their son's grade/profile removed despite the fact we might have graded them a 7 or 7.5. They just think he is much better and has higher goals than our grade dictates. Obviously we honor all those requests.
That said our database which is never posted anywhere, does have players ranked as low as low as 2, I don't ever remember seeing a 1.
BTW, we sometimes grade players too low, based on what they ended up accomplishing. The general thinking is that we would much rather be wrong over rating someone than be wrong under rating him.
We have seen some amazing things happen to players over the years. All our grades are based on what we think their maximum potential is. Not necessarily their present ability. See how often the words potential and possible appear in those descriptions.
I've been told that more people follow our stuff on high school kids than anywhere else. Our information is available to the general public. How would you like to cut down a player and then be proven wrong.
It's a constant battle between accuracy and trying to be polite to those who attend our events. I think we do a very good job of that. It seems that college coaches and MLB scouting departments feel the same way.
That said, we do plan to redefine our grading system this coming year to more clearly describe players, with less descriptions.
Is there such a thing as "false hope"? Would someone prefer NO HOPE?
JDsDad,
I went through the National Underclass profiles and listed the 2009 RHP with their fastball velocity and rating. I used that group because to some degree pitcher's ratings tend to correlate with their velocity so it is easier to evaluate the validity of their rankings than those of position players.
73 6.0
77 6.5
78 6.5
79 6.5, 6.5
80 7.0
81 7.0, 7.0
82 7.0
82 8.0 (note 84 at previous event)
84 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 8.0
85 8.0
87 8.5
88 9.0
Now let's see how these ratings compare to "reality". First of all we have to remember that these are maximum velocities on a Stalker, but they are generally maximum working velocities as opposed to pitches being thrown purely for the gun. We also don't know how the kids did as pitchers or if they were throwing max effort or pitching mostly 2 to 4 mph below their max velocity.
Let's take the top end at 88. If this kid is working 87 to 88 on a Stalker as a 2009 then he's a top D1 prospect including some very top D1s. PG has him rated slightly below that.
Let's take the bottom end. That's a very young looking 2009 who is probably capable of hitting 75 or 76 max on a Stalker. To me that’s a kid who could project to throwing low 80s or even higher eventually and therefore is a potential DIII or even DII righty. Looking at the ones listed from 80 to 82 mph at 7.0 they project to be throwing 83 to 85 mph on a Stalker going into their senior season and to me that is borderline D1 if they’ve got decent control, movement and off speed stuff. The 84 mph ones rated from 7.5 to 8.0 project to be throwing 85 to 87 going into their senior seasons and those are legit D1 candidates. We also don't know how old these kids are and some of them may be young 16yo who have a lot of room for improvement still while others may be older 17yo who aren't quite as likely to have a jump in velocity.
I think sometimes people forget that these velocities are on a Stalker and that even though they are maximum velocities, they are game velocities and most pitchers will pitch in games rather than just throw for the gun. I see 2008s consistently throwing 88 on a JUGS signing with mid level D1s, so it shouldn't be any surprise that a 2009 kid hitting 86 on a Stalker is rated as a definite D1 prospect.
How’s that compare with what PG has listed? Pretty well if you ask me. If there's any generosity it is on the low end, but there isn't much.
Also, to answer the specific question, does that kid who was rated at 6.0 have a chance to play in college? Absolutely. Is he a lock to play in college? Absolutely not.
PG,
Please feel free to correct any misrepresentations I may have made.
I went through the National Underclass profiles and listed the 2009 RHP with their fastball velocity and rating. I used that group because to some degree pitcher's ratings tend to correlate with their velocity so it is easier to evaluate the validity of their rankings than those of position players.
73 6.0
77 6.5
78 6.5
79 6.5, 6.5
80 7.0
81 7.0, 7.0
82 7.0
82 8.0 (note 84 at previous event)
84 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 8.0
85 8.0
87 8.5
88 9.0
Now let's see how these ratings compare to "reality". First of all we have to remember that these are maximum velocities on a Stalker, but they are generally maximum working velocities as opposed to pitches being thrown purely for the gun. We also don't know how the kids did as pitchers or if they were throwing max effort or pitching mostly 2 to 4 mph below their max velocity.
Let's take the top end at 88. If this kid is working 87 to 88 on a Stalker as a 2009 then he's a top D1 prospect including some very top D1s. PG has him rated slightly below that.
Let's take the bottom end. That's a very young looking 2009 who is probably capable of hitting 75 or 76 max on a Stalker. To me that’s a kid who could project to throwing low 80s or even higher eventually and therefore is a potential DIII or even DII righty. Looking at the ones listed from 80 to 82 mph at 7.0 they project to be throwing 83 to 85 mph on a Stalker going into their senior season and to me that is borderline D1 if they’ve got decent control, movement and off speed stuff. The 84 mph ones rated from 7.5 to 8.0 project to be throwing 85 to 87 going into their senior seasons and those are legit D1 candidates. We also don't know how old these kids are and some of them may be young 16yo who have a lot of room for improvement still while others may be older 17yo who aren't quite as likely to have a jump in velocity.
I think sometimes people forget that these velocities are on a Stalker and that even though they are maximum velocities, they are game velocities and most pitchers will pitch in games rather than just throw for the gun. I see 2008s consistently throwing 88 on a JUGS signing with mid level D1s, so it shouldn't be any surprise that a 2009 kid hitting 86 on a Stalker is rated as a definite D1 prospect.
How’s that compare with what PG has listed? Pretty well if you ask me. If there's any generosity it is on the low end, but there isn't much.
Also, to answer the specific question, does that kid who was rated at 6.0 have a chance to play in college? Absolutely. Is he a lock to play in college? Absolutely not.
PG,
Please feel free to correct any misrepresentations I may have made.
PG, Thanks for your explanation. I know in my son's case if he received a 6 or lower, he would just try and prove the graders wrong and not give up hope.
CADad,
I would have very little to add to that great explanation. Not sure I could have explained it as well as you did.
The bottom line is that this is not rocket science. It's more like looking into a crystal ball. We know ahead of time we are likely to be wrong at times. It would be downright scary if we were 100% accurate in every case. That would be more like science fiction!
Thanks
I would have very little to add to that great explanation. Not sure I could have explained it as well as you did.
The bottom line is that this is not rocket science. It's more like looking into a crystal ball. We know ahead of time we are likely to be wrong at times. It would be downright scary if we were 100% accurate in every case. That would be more like science fiction!
Thanks
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff
I don't ever remember seeing a 1.
Not even iitg, the greatest seed spitter on earth?
CADad - outstanding analysis! Your posts are appreciated because you seem to spend a lot of time trying to be objective about things without trying to hype your own kid. I believe your son will benefit greatly by that approach 
I am not a pitcher's dad but feel like I learned something today. PG your take is always appreciated.
I am not a pitcher's dad but feel like I learned something today. PG your take is always appreciated.
TPM,
Can't remember for sure, have to check with its, but I believe we gave iitg an 11 for seed spitting. The only 11 ever recorded. Unfortunately, it seems we over rated him based on what has happened recently.
Thanks CD
Truth is (please don't take the wrong way) I would rather be kind than accurate! Given the choice!
Can't remember for sure, have to check with its, but I believe we gave iitg an 11 for seed spitting. The only 11 ever recorded. Unfortunately, it seems we over rated him based on what has happened recently.
Thanks CD
Truth is (please don't take the wrong way) I would rather be kind than accurate! Given the choice!
PG, Is it harder to grade position players or pitchers? I would think pitchers might be easier because you have velocity for a starting point.
JDsDad,
You're right regarding velocity being an easy thing to judge. But there are so many other things involved in grading a pitcher. Some which are no more than an educated guess. Some based on comparisons to others who have accomplished great things.
Grading position players is about the same. Only you have to watch for more things. We still have the stop watch and radar that gives us certain data, but hitting can be very difficult especially when it comes to projection. Easy, smooth athletic actions stand out like a sore thumb. Power is just a guess unless it's already present.
Then for both pitchers and position players, there are the hundreds of intangables. Personally I look hard to see if I think a player has the "feel" for the game. I'm not smart enough to tell how big the players heart is by just seeing him play for a weekend. That can throw everything out of whack when you have seen kids accomplish what seems nearly impossible before.
I'm an optimist when it comes to baseball players. Always more interested in what they can do rather than what they can't do. I've seen true life miracles happen. At 61 I feel much wiser than when I was younger, wise enough to understand how little I really know. I had all this stuff completely figured out years ago.
You're right regarding velocity being an easy thing to judge. But there are so many other things involved in grading a pitcher. Some which are no more than an educated guess. Some based on comparisons to others who have accomplished great things.
Grading position players is about the same. Only you have to watch for more things. We still have the stop watch and radar that gives us certain data, but hitting can be very difficult especially when it comes to projection. Easy, smooth athletic actions stand out like a sore thumb. Power is just a guess unless it's already present.
Then for both pitchers and position players, there are the hundreds of intangables. Personally I look hard to see if I think a player has the "feel" for the game. I'm not smart enough to tell how big the players heart is by just seeing him play for a weekend. That can throw everything out of whack when you have seen kids accomplish what seems nearly impossible before.
I'm an optimist when it comes to baseball players. Always more interested in what they can do rather than what they can't do. I've seen true life miracles happen. At 61 I feel much wiser than when I was younger, wise enough to understand how little I really know. I had all this stuff completely figured out years ago.
quote:I'm an optimist when it comes to baseball players. Always more interested in what they can do rather than what they can't do. I've seen true life miracles happen.
After going to many PG events , showcases , wwba events I have to say that I got the rating system down pat. I can see a kid rate him and then go to the site and its almost scary how many times I have been dead on.
A 10 to me is simple. How many times do you need to see a Tim Melville to know he is a 10? Or a Skipworth? The 9 - 9.5 guys are the ones just a tad below them. Very very good players but not quite at the level of the 10's. The 8 -8.5s are very solid players. They just dont jump out at you with something that really stands out in their game. But they are very good players with very good tools. Then you got the 7 - 7.5's these guys are good players but do not have tools that cause them to stand out in a PG setting. The 6 - 6.5's are guys that are not ready to compete with the other groups listed. They may one day. They may develop into nice players. But they stand out for not being in the same league as the numbers above them.
This is my take on what I have seen over the last four years. I think what some people do not understand is PG sees so many players in all these groups over the course of one year. And from all over the entire nation. They have so much experience at doing this. Sometimes they have a kid a little low. But then the kid eventually corrects that by showing up and blowing up. And sometimes they might have a kid a little high. But the kid works his butt off and ends up where he was ranked anyway.
The types of players that attend these events are the top guys from their areas. Weak players do not pay this kind of money and travel the distances that they do to compete against and with the best in the nation. The absolute best thing my son ever did was attend a PG showcase and see what was out there. Going to the PG underclass and PG nationals puts it all in perspective for a player. It lets you know very quickly where you really stand. Not in your county. Not in your area of the state. Not in your state. Not in your region of the nation. But in the entire nation.
I know I sound like Im beating the PG drum. But I have to tell it like I have seen it. My son is the top ranked catcher in NC. But he is the #262 ranked player in the nation. When people around here start talking about how good he is the first thing he says is "You should see Skipworth or Hightower and Ramsey etc." Without ever attending these events he would have nothing to gauge himself against. When he attends something in state he stands out like a sore thumb. When he attends a PG national event , he is just one of the guys on the field. That puts your butt to work. I do know that seeing other guys that can flat out play makes you step up your game. It challenges you to work and get better.
The rating system gives you an understanding of what experienced baseball folks think of you as a player. It should motivate you to prove you are better than they say by working harder to improve. Or it should motivate you to prove they were right. I like it.
A 10 to me is simple. How many times do you need to see a Tim Melville to know he is a 10? Or a Skipworth? The 9 - 9.5 guys are the ones just a tad below them. Very very good players but not quite at the level of the 10's. The 8 -8.5s are very solid players. They just dont jump out at you with something that really stands out in their game. But they are very good players with very good tools. Then you got the 7 - 7.5's these guys are good players but do not have tools that cause them to stand out in a PG setting. The 6 - 6.5's are guys that are not ready to compete with the other groups listed. They may one day. They may develop into nice players. But they stand out for not being in the same league as the numbers above them.
This is my take on what I have seen over the last four years. I think what some people do not understand is PG sees so many players in all these groups over the course of one year. And from all over the entire nation. They have so much experience at doing this. Sometimes they have a kid a little low. But then the kid eventually corrects that by showing up and blowing up. And sometimes they might have a kid a little high. But the kid works his butt off and ends up where he was ranked anyway.
The types of players that attend these events are the top guys from their areas. Weak players do not pay this kind of money and travel the distances that they do to compete against and with the best in the nation. The absolute best thing my son ever did was attend a PG showcase and see what was out there. Going to the PG underclass and PG nationals puts it all in perspective for a player. It lets you know very quickly where you really stand. Not in your county. Not in your area of the state. Not in your state. Not in your region of the nation. But in the entire nation.
I know I sound like Im beating the PG drum. But I have to tell it like I have seen it. My son is the top ranked catcher in NC. But he is the #262 ranked player in the nation. When people around here start talking about how good he is the first thing he says is "You should see Skipworth or Hightower and Ramsey etc." Without ever attending these events he would have nothing to gauge himself against. When he attends something in state he stands out like a sore thumb. When he attends a PG national event , he is just one of the guys on the field. That puts your butt to work. I do know that seeing other guys that can flat out play makes you step up your game. It challenges you to work and get better.
The rating system gives you an understanding of what experienced baseball folks think of you as a player. It should motivate you to prove you are better than they say by working harder to improve. Or it should motivate you to prove they were right. I like it.
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
The rating system gives you an understanding of what experienced baseball folks think of you as a player. It should motivate you to prove you are better than they say by working harder to improve. Or it should motivate you to prove they were right. I like it.
I think that Coach May's advice here is dead on.
I have posted this before - but I will do it again.
First - after having followed PG's ratings for many years now - and watching how things have played out - there is no question that they do the best job of anyone I have seen in rating HS players. Probably because they have very qualified people doing it.
That being said - heres a story:
My eldest was rated a 6 when he was a sophomore. He went to Florida - in January - and didnt impress anyone.
After he got his rating - he came up to me and said:
"Dad - they think I suck - but I dont think I suck".
My answer to him was consistent with what Coach May so aptly described.
I told him to go out and hit the ball - and catch the ball and run like a wild dog.
I also told him that when he smashes the ball into the parking lot behind the centerfield fence - or steals third base (with defiance) - noone will be thinking about his 6 rating.
He listened - which is rare for a teenager LOL - and basically believed in exactly what Coach May is advising.
If you dont like the rating - go out and prove it is wrong.
Simple as that. IMO.