PG Showcase in Dallas

On Super Bowl Sunday in January of my son’s Soph year in HS I took him to the PG South National Showcase in Tomball. The weather that weekend was terrible and, despite the existence of many indoor facilities, PG had made no contingency plans in case of rain. So the showcase was conducted during a rainstorm. Players ran the 60 into the wind and driving rain. OF velo was recorded with players throwing into a 20 mph wind w/ driving rain. BP was also conducted in the rain. Needless to say, all the players posted terrible numbers. I was sitting with some of the “scouts” and overheard some of the conversations. The “scouts” were local HS & college kids that had no idea what they were watching and only cared about recording a number. The crew that was running the showcase was from the DR and were hired guns. None of them spoke English. There was never a PG representative on site. The only goal of the event organizers was to complete the event. The experience was miserable and it was a complete waste of time and money. My son never attended another PG individual event. What a joke! After that fiasco we went to Under Armour Baseball Factory and PBR events - and only the inexpensive or invite only events. He was recruited by NOC Enid and played 2 years there and is now at a 4 year school.  Bottom line is that you don’t need PG events to advance your son to college baseball. Look for prospect camps on campus and go to those. There was one held in Enid last weekend that had coaches from 12 schools in attendance. Don’t worry about PG grades. College coaches don’t use those as a basis for recruiting. Send me a PM if you want more information. 

@Giff posted:

I have read posts on here for months now, first time posting. I’m just a little frustrated today as, many of us Dad’s are prone to. Hear me out, I have a 2024 catcher here in Oklahoma. I was a D1 catcher back in the late 90’s but, the recruiting/development landscape is so different from “back in my day” growing up in San Diego, my head is spinning trying to figure all this out. Anyways, I had my son do a PG showcase last year in Tomball, TX, he had a poor showing but got a taste of the talent around our region. He was still graded at 7.5. It inspired him to address some weak points and grind. Recently, he did another showcase in Dallas (Aug), improved every single measurable— POP down to 2.08, EV 86, solid BP round, catcher velo 70. All of these numbers were great improvements for a 14 y/o plus he grew taller into 6’0 muscular 190. Despite improvements his grade went down to 7. Kind of took it hard because he met some goals. I explained these things are subjective and to use it as fuel, he seems fine now. But I’m somewhat confused on this grading method. Knowing that it’s not the end all be all, I wonder if I’m not doing something right? I noticed some of the higher ranked players tend to play in more of the PG tournaments. My sons travel team up here does some PBR events but doesn’t really play PG tourneys, is that a factor? Should I just say forget it and stay away from PG altogether? (Save $$$!!!) I’m inclined to do that and just go with PBR once or twice a year for roughly a third of the price. Ultimately, I think he’s going to have the size, strength, and ability to play at a high level, I just want to put him in the best position possible (like so many of you). Anyways, thanks for letting me vent a little! Those grades are a mystery to me.

Took a quick gander at what I assume is the event, and it shows he had a 7.5 for his event in Aug. Or am I missing something?

Either way, IMO, don’t worry about it. The numbers look solid for a ‘24. If they translate into performance in games, that’s what will really matter 

We’ve done 2 PG Showcases. The first  in Tomball, TX and it rained overnight so they were not able to cut the grass so grass was high and wet for running a 60. Just to point out Tomball uses grass in OF and turf on The infield. It was also wet for OF throwing so speed and Velo was impacted.  After that we passed on Tomball. We did one PG in Arizona at a spring training site and it was run well and had a good experience. 

Don’t worry about the numbers. Especially since he’s only fourteen. If he’s in front of the right people/coaches at the right age they will know what they’re seeing. 

I’m not anti PG. it depends on the event and the weather. While my son didn’t need PG events in FL and GA (he was already discovered) they helped.

A lot has changed since we (parents) were recruited. We were either seen or we weren’t. Now kids can chose where they want to be seen. Unless your son is the “come sign me” stud no one will overlook you need to build a business plan and execute it. Unless you believe your son is currently a D1 prospect it’s early. The best scenario is being on a travel team that will presell your son to college programs. Then it’s up to him to produce when in front of them. 

This is much harder to do for a 14u player. But, make a list of prospective colleges. The list should be at least fifty schools. The list will shrink and change. You might end up completely retooling the list given his age. Some schools won’t be interested in him. He will lose interest in some schools. New schools will hit the radar. Find a travel team that fits the business plan.

My son was 5’11” 135 after freshman year. It was after soph year it all started as he continued to grow and started to fill out. You’re ahead of the game on physical development.

Not to dump on PG but my kid went to a few regional showcases including the bigger brand names. They were typically unorganized, unprepared for weather/field conditions and in some cases incompetent to the point of not properly operating a pocket radar. Unfortunately unless your kid is well known that is the gateway to get invited to their national showcase.  I am surprised by the grade with his 14U metrics.  

Do not worry about going to any more PG showcases.  Certainly not after doing two already.  You are in the system.  They have your info.  You will get invited to "exclusive" events for the next four years.  When he is ready to show out, then MAYBE go to one of those events.  Train for and do 1 PBR event sophomore year to make sure he is on their radar.

Otherwise, spend your showcase dollars going to as many school camps as  you can.  Prioritize those with gameplay.   Tons of JUCOs around Dallas if you learn how to look for them.  50-100 per camp. Get to know what kind of places and coaches you like.  Get the experience down.   Form relationships.   When you find the right match for the talent level, they will find you a home somewhere.

We have always had really great experiences at PG. They have always been run really really well.  That said, 14 is young.  We went to our first at 15.  My son scored above the 95%ile for his age in every category.  Threw 81 and allowed no one on base in two innings. Made the top prospect list/team, got a write up and was scored an 8. I think it's hard to give anyone big scores at those ages unless they are phenoms.  They are young.  Lots of growing and maturing to do. I would guess because of his size, they are expecting that your son would be throwing harder to earn a higher grade.  I'm sure that will come.  I think PBR is a great showcase as well.   We did both and thought both were really valuable to gauge the competition and in his recruiting process.

@Senna posted:

Took a quick gander at what I assume is the event, and it shows he had a 7.5 for his event in Aug. Or am I missing something?

Either way, IMO, don’t worry about it. The numbers look solid for a ‘24. If they translate into performance in games, that’s what will really matter 

I think the 7.5 is carried over from his last event, but the three scores for hitting, fielding, etc were 7. I could be wrong? Either way, I think he was hoping to see it go up (and maybe I was too). As another posted, his arm strength is certainly not “elite” right now, so that could be a factor? He just turned 15 and is now a freshman, so at his age, everything is a work in progress. I don’t want to overthink all this—but I probably already have! Ha! Anyways, there has been some great advice on this thread, which I will incorporate— I love the concept of having a business plan, and approaching in that fashion. Ultimately, we’ll keep our focus on improving the skill set. Obviously that and his character are what matters most.

I am already thankful for this board, in this new landscape, where money is flying everywhere, all of your guidance is really helpful.

Anyone remember when your dad paid $30-$50 for little league and you played 20 games a year plus All Stars? Yeah, those days are gone.

While I think there is an argument to be made that the ceiling potential for PG is higher than PBR, I think FOR MOST, PBR is the better value.  For the price of one PG showcase, you can do 2-3 PBR events.  Or 3-5 camps/school showcases.  Spoiler alert - everyone of them will record the exact same measurables, so if that is what you're after, I see almost no reason to do PG.  Especially for a 2024, I'd caution against focusing on that PG rating.  For all we know, your kid was given a 7/7.5 to entice you to come back 2-4 more times over the next couple years, so beware chasing a ghost.

I could be wrong, I but sometimes get the sense that most kids/parents go into a showcase not knowing how well the kid will do.  In my opinion, if that's the case, you're doing it wrong.  If a player properly prepared for a showcase, he goes into it knowing what his measurables will be before he steps on the field.  Or awfully close.  In this day and age with all the money we dump into this machine, access to a Pocketradar should nearly be a given. Either because you spent $300 on one or because you know multiple people who will loan you one.  $300 is expensive in one sense, but not if you've spent $700 on PG or $300 on PBR even once.  My Pocketradar is currently with a buddy of mine.  His 2022 did a showcase about a month ago and got an 89 mph exit velo which he wasn't satisfied with.  So I loaned them my gun and the kid practiced his exit velo for the next 3 weeks using it.  Was hitting 91-92.  Last week he went to another showcase and came home with a 91.  He prepared, knew what he was capable of doing, and went in and executed.  My 2021 committed back in July, but he's going the JUCO route so showcases are a part of his future for the coming years.  I cannot imagine him going into a single one of them not knowing pretty well what the result will be.  I feel there are too many players out there whose plan is to simply "try harder" this time around.  Hope is not a strategy.

@DanJ posted:

I could be wrong, I but sometimes get the sense that most kids/parents go into a showcase not knowing how well the kid will do.  In my opinion, if that's the case, you're doing it wrong.

This, 100%.  I wish we had known this, back when my son was a freshman, would have saved money (although we never did a PG showcase).

If you look at the PG scale, at a 7+ they are identifying him as a college prospect.  8+ as a potential draft pick.  Pointing to a 14 year old and saying that he is a potential draft pick is pretty rare I would guess.  I would think 8 or higher for a kid that age is reserved for the early maturer who is already getting P5 looks and has metrics comparable to most highschool varsity players already.....those kids are rare birds.

That scale has always been considered extremely generous... in fact, there is rarely a score posted below 6.5 or 7.  We have always found PG events to be very well run and scoring to be pretty accurate (from a relativity standpoint, not as it relates to that scale).  But we have been removed from that scene for some time and I am not surprised to hear some experiences that are not as positive, considering their recent growth initiatives and shift in focus.

The scores have always been less reliable for the very young.  PG has stated that projection is a big part of the analysis.  So, my guess would be that the OP son didn't score great because he already has a big body and his arm strength hasn't yet matched his growth - pretty important when projecting a C.  Giff, I am also curious... that is a big 14 y.o. catcher... how is his agility behind the dish?  Usually, a kid that age, that size, is dealing with some awkward growing into his body and not really "nimble".  Similarly, with hitting, does he show good over-the-top pop yet?  Does his swing show proper mechanics and compactness that will allow for him to hit college pitching yet or is it still a bit gangly?

Sounds like he has good size, good work ethic and great resource in an experienced dad to help him stay on track.  If I had to guess, he is well on his way, just needs to grow into his body and get closer to maturation.  If he keeps growing, I wonder if he will remain a C?

I have created an online presence for him to show that he has better than average agility. Not sure if it’s appropriate for the board to link to our kids so if this is a mistake I apologize—

 https://mobile.twitter.com/JGifford2024

You can see some of the actions there but you are not wrong, his arm strength is not where I’d like it to be, nor is his speed. He hits a ton, but we continue to press on arm strength and speed. Found a good strength/speed guy in Tulsa. Hope it helps. It’s just more money out the door, eh? The arm strength issue is a separate journey, I’ll have to check this site for the weighted ball v long toss v Jaegar bands v all of the above thread.

I do indeed have a pocket radar, knew he would hit EV of 86, and hoped he would hit Catcher Velo of 73-75 (he ended up with 70 at both PG and PBR). So I knew in advance where his measurables would likely fall. I just wanted to get him on the public radar as he enters high school after a solid youth travel experience. The grading issue is just my initial response to what I am now understanding from this board, is In general, a waste of mental energy to focus on.

 Again, appreciative of all thoughts and advice. I wish nothing but great things for all of your sons, if you’re like me it’s far harder to “Dad” than play. 

Cool!  Yup, good lookin' 14 y.o. ... swing, receiving and footwork development definitely ahead of the arm.  And,for sure on the dad thing.  

Looking into weighted ball/long toss/Jaeger program is great but won't necessarily address what i see in a very small snapshot as slow arm speed and sequencing being part of the equation.

I could be wrong, I but sometimes get the sense that most kids/parents go into a showcase not knowing how well the kid will do.  In my opinion, if that's the case, you're doing it wrong.

I couldn’t agree more. If you’re attending to throw spaghetti off the wall to see what sticks and be discovered you’re in the wrong place.

Being a college baseball prospect is like being a lawyer or in major account sales. Know the answers before you ask the questions. A qualified baseball person will tell you where you likely fit. Never get caught up in the adulation of other parents. Just say, “thank you.”

When my son was a HS freshman, his HS coach said he should do a PBR showcase, to "get a baseline."  So he did.  Then his travel coach pointed out that these numbers were nothing special, and now they were online for all to see, until we paid to do another one.  He said, don't do showcases until your numbers are already at the D1 level, no-one will care before that.

@anotherparent posted:

When my son was a HS freshman, his HS coach said he should do a PBR showcase, to "get a baseline."  So he did.  Then his travel coach pointed out that these numbers were nothing special, and now they were online for all to see, until we paid to do another one.  He said, don't do showcases until your numbers are already at the D1 level, no-one will care before that.

Nobody cares afterwards either. That’s what so many people can’t seem to understand. 

For starters, you don't need a showcase with "verified" measurables to get a baseline.  A stop watch and Pocket Radar will do that and are on par - if not the exact same - as what the showcase guys are using.

Second, if your kid does any showcase and is embarrassed or fearful his numbers will hurt his reputation, ask the organization to take the numbers down.  While I have no firsthand experience with doing so, I have to believe it happens.  A peer of my son's is ranked 13th in the state by PBR.  If you go to his PBR profile, you'll only find one metric.  He has an 8 mph fastball listed.  You read that right.  Just the 8 mph fastball and nothing else.  He's committed to a Big 12 team so I can assure everyone his fastball is a bit higher than 8 mph.  What happened to all his measurables?  I honestly have no clue, but it's certainly possible the old, outdated numbers were taken down for whatever reason.

@RJM posted:

... .Never get caught up in the adulation of other parents. Just say, “thank you.”

Lot of good pearls being thrown out there today! 

@anotherparent posted:

When my son was a HS freshman, his HS coach said he should do a PBR showcase, to "get a baseline."  So he did.  Then his travel coach pointed out that these numbers were nothing special, and now they were online for all to see, until we paid to do another one.  He said, don't do showcases until your numbers are already at the D1 level, no-one will care before that.

I think this is cogent advice. I’ll hold off for now until numbers are at a D1 level. (If they get there). And reconsider then.  I see others posting that it never matters in terms of doing a showcase and maybe that’s the truth of it. It’s all just a scam. IDK. In the end, if he’s throwing 1.8’s and hitting bombs, I expect someone will notice. I remain friends with a number of the folks I played with in the PAC-10, they are just as lost as I am, makes you wonder who turned all this whole process into a confusing #%*^ show.  

@Giff posted:

I think this is cogent advice. I’ll hold off for now until numbers are at a D1 level. (If they get there). And reconsider then.  I see others posting that it never matters in terms of doing a showcase and maybe that’s the truth of it. It’s all just a scam. IDK. In the end, if he’s throwing 1.8’s and hitting bombs, I expect someone will notice. I remain friends with a number of the folks I played with in the PAC-10, they are just as lost as I am, makes you wonder who turned all this whole process into a confusing #%*^ show.  

In the #$&@ show is opportunity. When we played you were known mostly by regional colleges. Now a kid can decide he wants to play in another part of the country and be seen by those schools. Opportunity is what you make if it. 

If he’s hitting Bombs and throwing 1.8’s, he can send video out to colleges.  If you fish in the right pond, he will get responses.

Get him with a reputable travel program that has connections to college recruiting.  That’s the #1 path, moreso than PG or PBR.

Giff,

My son did a PG showcase his freshman year and didn't get graded very high at all.  We were like most who sign up for an early PG showcases (and before finding this site) to just get a baseline rating and have him experience the "competition" and feel of a showcase.  We didn't do any other PG showcases and going into his senior year he was now a "High Follow" and named to the TX Region honorable mention team.  I realize that many many kids are named to these lists, but the point being his initial rating had nothing to do with anything and as has been said on here, no coaches worried about what happened as a freshman at a PG showcase.  As hard as it is, try and slow it all down a bit.  Your son looks to have something and is a big kid already.  Your statement of it being harder to be a dad than a player is 100% accurate.

I would suggest following ADBONO advice about looking at some of the area JUCO camps or local schools and attend those to get on the radar and get his name out there.  Plus its much cheaper and still gets "verified" measurables that can be shared.  As someone else mentioned just having video with a pocket radar reading is plenty good for sending out to coaches.  Most coaches/schools aren't even looking at 2024 class right now so you have some time to formulate a plan and more importantly, let your son grow and get stronger.  The hardest thing is to enjoy the ride as it is a roller-coaster of an experience.  Good Luck to both of you!

Is he playing for a reputable travel program? How do they see him?

@2022NYC posted:

Is he playing for a reputable travel program? How do they see him?

That is a good question, the program he is with is a reputable program, and has a great deal of success depending on the age level. They’ve been around a while, but at his particular age group, not super strong. He is viewed well, 3/4 hitter, leader. We’ve only played one year here after moving from SoCal and like the people in the program. I sometimes don’t think they emphasize pushing high profile events/showcase tourneys enough. It’s done at the 16 and up level but not beforehand. I recently had him tryout and make the NTX Banditos in Dallas because I’ve heard so many great things about Banditos, they even IMMEDIATELY began pushing his name out to connections through FieldLevel. We have yet to fully commit to them though because of the distance. I’ll admit that the energy in that program is high and they seem well connected in a huge market. Drive to push the kids to the next level is one important aspect, the coaching ability, connections, and trust to facilitate that is far more rare—Banditos may have that combo.

This question hits at the original thought in my initial post above—is having him play on a more showcase oriented travel team the way to go? I suspect there is some value in it.

He needs to play in the highest level of travel competition to be looked at by the P5 schools.  

@2022NYC posted:

He needs to play in the highest level of travel competition to be looked at by the P5 schools.  

I always throw in that everyone's path is different. My son played with his friends, not a power team and was recruited by a ton of P5s.   He wanted to play with his friends so we did more showcases and camps to fill the gap on recruiting.  Worked.

@Giff PTWoodson committed to a P5, like @baseballhs, playing with friends and without playing on a national powerhouse. The caveat is at least once a year his team played in the big venues (e.g. WWBA) against top competition. For him, the most important recruiting time was the summer between his sophomore and junior year and at that point he did do multiple high profile events.  

We did exactly the same. 

Are your kids position players? 

Mine is an outfielder.

And feel free to PM if you have more specific questions!

Mine is a pitcher.