Picking a 2020 travel ball team

A couple of quick questions to help add some clarity....

Does your son play a position other than RHP that he wishes to continue to play?

If not a position player, does the current team attempt to provide any pitching development?

if you are asking these questions he is most likely nota top team player. if he makes one of the top 3 or even 4 teams for the Canes he is a legit college player, possible D1 type. Honestly I mean no disrespect but I don't think you realize how deep some of these rosters go.

The question is what are trying to accomplish? If your son is that type of player they may be perfect, if he is a local D3 type kid there may be some better options. Do some homework, talk to them, talk to others you know who have played for them but most of all be honest about what your son is looking and what he might be capable of.

Organizations can be different. But most of the top travel team's talent is recruited. If a kid walks on via tryout he's a "wow" player. The unknown "wow" talent is usually a pitcher with newly acquired velocity. The only way a player moves up levels from year to year in travel programs is be better than the players they could recruit. 

Arsenal is a big time program near where my kids grew up. I remember parents thinking their kids were locks for college ball because they were in the program. Not only did players rarely move up levels (B to A) only four players from the 13u A team made the 17u A team in my son's class group.

Thanks for the responses. 

Son is also a corner infielder, mainly 3b. He also typically bats in the middle of the order. But realistically, for a top level team he would be a PO (if he made such a team). 

Old School:  I intentionally have kept my son playing travel ball at fairly low level prior to HS. Admittedly, that means I don't have much useful data. As for the 3rd and 4th Canes teams...  Two 2020s who joined that organization this year played with my son's team's for many years. Son was always the ace of those teams' staffs, so even factoring in daddy bias I can confirm he's a much better pitcher than either. (One is pitching for the Canes, not sure about the other.)

fwiw, son is 6 feet tall (unlikely to get much taller), about 180 lbs (big build, not overweight), and touches low 80s as a 15u. He has a decent curve and change-up, also a 4- and 2-seam.  He averaged 2 Ks per inning as a freshman SP in JV (but goes to a small school). He has just started lifting weights--remains to be seen how committed he is to that. Plays varsity soccer, so he's pretty fast and mobile. The coaches I have asked tell me he has D1 potential if he works at it (but I don't think they mean ACC/SEC). My ideal goak, for him would be to play at an Ivy (but I know this is a big reach, Davidson, high-academic D3...

FWIW - based on the small amount of information provided, I would have to choose the current team where he can continue to develop his general baseball skills.  Pitching development will not likely occur within the top programs themselves but rather can be pursued individually regardless of which team is chosen.  Really no downside at this point in sticking with current team as it does not sound like he would be a standout on the top team (and thus presumably get some exposure).  If his velocity spikes this summer/fall or into spring, then you can certainly pursue some opportunities next summer.

Ok...so I started and coached a 16-18U team in NC for 3 years.  The guys I coached are Freshman and Sophomores in college now.  We played Dynamic (Evoshield) and impact (Dirtbag) tourney's a lot.  We played against Evoshield some and the Dirtbags a lot.  In 3 years we faced the #1 Evoshioeld team once and we only once faced the #1 dirtbag team once and it was the team that was 1 year younger.  So yes, their best teams play at different venues a lot of times than their other teams do.  

Most of my guys were d2 guys...had 1 go D1.  Had 2 go D3.  Had 2-3 others get d1 offers but ended up going D2.  Our team was talent wise very comparable to the #2 Dirtbag team.  I had one of my guys go to the Dirtbags and come back to me, he was on their #2 team and he was an average player on our team. 

Since your son is a 2020 I would not hesitate to tryout and see which team they offer him a spot on.  If he makes the best one for either of these organizations then you are on your way and I'd suggest jumping on the opportunity.  If he does not make the best team and he is happy and developing on the team he is on then I would stay put. 

If you'd like to pm me I'll be glad to give you info.  Good luck.

Rising Soph, Junior, & Senior years you want to be on the best team you can that plays the tournaments where the scouts are at, and has a track record of getting players to where you want to be.

There is no inside track other than talent, hard work & production.

Thanks again all. 

I probably muddied the waters by giving too much info. I don't expect y'all to be able to evaluate my son. I assume he's -not- top-tier 1st team material.  I'm really wondering about the other teams at top-tier clubs  

Two main Qs (to which the above responses are helpful):  1) Any real advantage to playing on a 3rd or 4th team at a big-name program versus a smaller club that plays a similar schedule to those 3rd or 4th teams?   2) Do the big-time programs typically recruit the players they want for their 1st teams, rather than picking them from a cold tryout?  In which case, I assume most kids are really trying out for the lower-level teams. 

As you look towards college ball stats and who is a better pitcher up to now becomes less relevant. Yes, stats draw attention. They draw attention to the metrics (velocity, etc.) and mechanics. Then recruiters decide if a player has the potential to have impact by sophomore year.

It's very wise you're looking at baseball as an avenue to get into the best college possible. Don't rule out Ivies. There are people here who can provide the information you need. Don't rule out academic D3's. Some of them play very good baseball. On the better teams there are players who could have played mid major D1. But they chose the academic route. 

1) No, and in my opinion there are significant disadvantages with cost being a major one.  I would pick a program that prioritizes your son and works hard to help him get exposure and pick the right fit for him.  Just by playing at the same events big name programs play at doesn't mean you will get exposure.  It takes a lot of effort.  You might be able to just show up and get noticed but it ain't likely. 

2) At your sons age you might have a shot at making the #1 team at a tryout if the talent is there...they don't yet know who all the best Freshman are.  After this year they are recruiting who they want for their #1 and #2 teams.  They are out watching high school games and making contact with the players they want. 

In response to #1 - and as it appears to apply to your situation - I would say that whatever benefits are obtained are probably overshadowed by the lost opportunities with the smaller club team - again assuming the club team has some competent coaching and actually provides ongoing development.  I do not think exposure for your 2020 is critical this summer given you description, so the next goal would be to  continue development and do so in a pleasant atmosphere.  "Be on the best team you can..." works as long as you are truly participating.  If you are getting sporadic innings to help in scheduling the top pitchers, then that can get tiresome and drain all the fun out of the game.  The smaller club team will also allow your 2020 to continue to play the field and swing the bat which will keep him engaged with the team and can pay dividends in high school.  You probably don't want to be the #6 or #7 pitcher and get 4-5 innings in 2 pool games during a tournament so as to keep #1 through #5 fresh for bracket play.

I know everyone here is looking to getting on that special team that plays the big tourney's to help them find an opportunity in college but why don't you have your son make direct contact with the programs he is interested in? 

Just know what your expectations are.  If your expectations are that it will be a reach for the #1 team, and you have no issues with being on the #2-4 teams, then find the program that fits.  If you look at the #1 team, shake your head, and say are you f'ing kidding me, then it really won't be any fun if you're not "one of their guys." 

And some organizations just train but don't practice.  It's generally no big deal, unless you like good baseball.  Nothing is worse than watching botched cutoff's and the like because the kids don't practice as a team.   

Can someone explain how one would even know which team is the A, B, C, D etc? EvoShield has eleven 2020/15u listed on their website. They are Atlantic 15u, Coastal 15u, Central 15u, Eastern 15u, Florida 2020 Black, Florida 2020 Gold, Mid Atlantic 15u, Midwest 15u, North 15u, South 15u and Texas 15u. Are you saying that these are A, B, C, D, E, F, G etc teams? Is the A team in Texas WAY better than the J team in the Northeast? If so, what is the order? This doesn't make much sense to me. Don't these teams generally draw from the region in their name? What am I not understanding here?

2True,  Dig just a bit deeper on the Canes website.  Look at the college commits and see which teams they are rostered.  That may help some.   

keewart posted:

2True,  Dig just a bit deeper on the Canes website.  Look at the college commits and see which teams they are rostered.  That may help some.   

Thanks! Will look into it.

jman99 posted:

I know everyone here is looking to getting on that special team that plays the big tourney's to help them find an opportunity in college but why don't you have your son make direct contact with the programs he is interested in? 

Making contact is part of the process. But it's better to be on the right team and have them sell the player to the coaching staff. 

2True posted:

keewart posted:

2True,  Dig just a bit deeper on the Canes website.  Look at the college commits and see which teams they are rostered.  That may help some.   

Thanks! Will look into it.

Obviously not many 2020 commits so can't use that. I would have to figure out what teams the '19, '18 and '17s commits used to play for when they were 15u. Then see if there's a pattern. Lots, and lots of research. Also, lets say Eastern 15u was the A team 2 years ago, does that mean Eastern 15u is the current A team? If the A team is not the same every year then I can't draw conclusions about this years teams from what 15u teams commits where on in the past. There's got to be an easier way. Still confused!

You aren't looking at the 2020 commits you are looking at the 2017 commits.  Look at the list of 2017 commits that they all likely have up at the moment.  Those teams are the top teams.

If the D team at Evoshields is talking to and working with the A team coach I think the D team is a fine choice for a 2020...there is such a thing as moving up in the ranks.  You just have to be certain that is what you are doing.

I live in GA, and East Cobb Baseball currently has eleven 16u teams.  I can tell you us locals know which ones are the REAL east cobb teams and which ones are the teams that are just renting the name and have no real conversations with the powers that be at East Cobb, they just write a check to east cobb and get to put the logo on their jerseys and hats.

There is another local org called 643, they only have 3 teams per age group. However, the coaches all cross coach.  So the C team coach for 14u might be the A team coach for 17u, so every coach is aware of what is needed at every age group.  They have a huge tryout and each kid they already have on one of their teams has an in depth write up on if that kid should stay on the B team, be moved up, or be dropped down. Even being on the C team you are a part of the 643 Family and have a very good shot of being moved up to the A team if your play warrants in.

I would encourage you to call the org and ask your questions.  They should be honest about how all of their teams are affiliated with each other.

CACO3: thanks!  That's great advice. 

I coached the Dirtbags for several years. I also ran several of their "ID" Camps and Showcase events as well.

How do they find their players?

It is not very hard to find the better players in your state and surrounding areas such as SC VA. With close contacts to ML Scouts, College Coaches and many HS coaches the word travels pretty quickly. By running ID camps many will show up at these events. They also will show up at Showcase events. Players are watched during the HS season. By running tourneys you will see multiple players as well.

Yes the Dirtbags will have 2 teams that are considered the "elite" teams. This typically will be referred to as the Upper Class Team. Then the "elite" underclass team. Both of these teams will have 1 team with the same age guys also. This makes up the 4 programs of HS aged players. It is not unusual for players to play on both teams and sometimes all 4 from time to time. For instance a younger player may start on the second underclass team. He may play a weekend on the 1st underclass team. He may fill in on the 2nd upper class team. He may be brought to the 1st upper class team as well to fill in.

There have been multiple guys drafted that never played on the elite upper class team. Sometimes the difference in ability from the 1 team to 2 team is razor thin. It can change from summer to fall in some cases. All of our teams would play in the same tourneys for the most part. The best way to find out where you stand is to simply show up and compete and find out. I can tell you there were many times where we found players once we faced them. You don't have to play on an elite team to be seen. You don't have to go broke going through this process. I can tell you our fee's were many times much less than other teams in our state.

As long as your program is getting you in front of the people "YOU" need to be getting in front of that is all you can ask. Once that happens its simply up to the player to show what they want to see. One thing is for sure if you come to an ID camp, Showcase event, and you have what someone wants you won't have to wonder. They will let you know.

I can only advise from our experience with the Canes:

1. Placement is based on relative skill set and location (except for the national team(s) as location is not pertinent). And their talent eval is accurate.
2. A Canes player is there because of the talent on the squad, the relationship with the coaching staff, and the level of competition.
3. The Canes network with colleges, pro teams and advisers is rich and well established.

Having said all that, ultimately the Canes are a platform for your son, NOT a solution. It's a platform upon which your son builds his own recruiting efforts. It's not a solution, but a means to a solution.

The Canes are a GREAT organization, and they will help all their players get to the next level. 

But make no mistake: it is highly competitive! A player is placed where they believe the player and the organization is best served. This is a performance-based business. And, oh by the way, so is collegiate and professional baseball.