On a routine groundball, pop-fly, or line-drive to an infielder (where an out should be made), I see no problem with how fielding percentage is calculated.
But on an infield hit I see four possible scenarios:
(1) Infielder can't get a handle on the ball or picks it up cleanly but realizes he can't get the runner, so he makes no throw. No error, no "chance", no effect on fielding percentage.
(2) Infielder makes a clean throw to first but the runner beats it. No error, no "chance", no effect on fielding percentage.
(3) Infielder makes a wild throw to first (say past the 1st-baseman), but the runner does not advance. No error, no "chance", no effect on fielding percentage.
(4) Infielder makes a wild throw to first (say past the 1st-baseman), allowing the runner to advance to second. ERROR, no "chance" (since the play is ruled a hit there was by definition no chance to make the out), fielding percentage will go down more than if he had dropped a flyball.
Using your idea of "touches", I would say the infielder possibly gets credit for a "touch" only for (2). It's hard for me to give him credit for (1) since he didn't make a throw. As for (3) and (4), it's hard for me to give any credit for a wild throw, although I suppose you might be able to make a case for (3).
Incidentally, (4) is essentially the same thing that happens to an outfielder on a ball hit to him on the ground: there is no "chance" (since it's a hit), but he can either misplay it or make a wild throw to allow a runner to advance, and thus be charged with an error that will reduce his fielding percentage MORE than if he dropped a flyball. This inequity could be resolved by considering every ball hit to an outfielder to be a "chance" (or a "touch"), not just those that are catchable for an out. Those on which he makes no error (fielding or throw) that allows a runner to advance will IMPROVE his fielding percentage, while those on which he makes an error will hurt his fielding percentage but NO MORE than if he had dropped a fly ball.
harco bb fan,
The reason I conjured touches up was to try do something to make sure fielders got just as much credit for not making an error when they had a chance to make one, as they get for making one. For a GB to an IFr where ordinary effort should produce an out, there’s gonna be something marked that affects his FPct. He’s either gonna get a PO, and Asst, or be charged with an error.
Why shouldn’t a GB to an OFr be the same way. Instead, there’s either gonna be an E or nothing, and to me that’s just silly, and its why every ball hit to an OFr is considered. Its also why pickoff throws are counted as touches for the thrower and receiver. I haven’t quite figgered out how to get all the touches on a play counted without taking up lots more time than I think is worthy of the effort. FI, on a single to left, as long as the ball is “live” there’s a chance of an error allowing a runner to move up. Giving the OFr a touch isn’t all that hard to do, but trying to give every player in the relay until the ball is either dead or a new play begins would be a nightmare, at least for me. I’m just one guy, but if I had an assistant, it wouldn’t be difficult at all, however I won’t hold my breath until that happens.
The reason I conjured touches up was to try do something to make sure fielders got just as much credit for not making an error when they had a chance to make one, as they get for making one. For a GB to an IFr where ordinary effort should produce an out, there’s gonna be something marked that affects his FPct. He’s either gonna get a PO, and Asst, or be charged with an error.
Why shouldn’t a GB to an OFr be the same way. Instead, there’s either gonna be an E or nothing, and to me that’s just silly, and its why every ball hit to an OFr is considered. Its also why pickoff throws are counted as touches for the thrower and receiver. I haven’t quite figgered out how to get all the touches on a play counted without taking up lots more time than I think is worthy of the effort. FI, on a single to left, as long as the ball is “live” there’s a chance of an error allowing a runner to move up. Giving the OFr a touch isn’t all that hard to do, but trying to give every player in the relay until the ball is either dead or a new play begins would be a nightmare, at least for me. I’m just one guy, but if I had an assistant, it wouldn’t be difficult at all, however I won’t hold my breath until that happens.
Got it, and I agree with what you're attempting to do. I was just saying that a "touch" may not be in order on every infield hit - definitely not for the case where the infielder makes no throw (in this case he shouldn't be credited for anything because he didn't do anything!). But that's just my opinion.
And I agree that the "touch" system, if you were to be rigorous about implementing it, would be a scorekeeping nightmare that would require at least one assistant. Maybe that's a big reason why they just came up with the relatively simple but not always fair (to outfielders at least) method for determining fielding percentage.
And I agree that the "touch" system, if you were to be rigorous about implementing it, would be a scorekeeping nightmare that would require at least one assistant. Maybe that's a big reason why they just came up with the relatively simple but not always fair (to outfielders at least) method for determining fielding percentage.
I don’t try to be perfect because as you’ve already noted, it would be a nightmare.
Like I said, its not intended to replace anything or to be the latest great metric, but rather to give a better picture of what the fielders are doing.
Like I said, its not intended to replace anything or to be the latest great metric, but rather to give a better picture of what the fielders are doing.