Pirates vs. Braves 7 hour game ends with...

What this umpire did was totally incomprehensible. He should be banned immediately from doing any more MLB games. MLB can't have these types of umpires calling games. It's as though he wanted to get the game over with or he had some "rooting" interest in the game. Something smells very rotten with this call. This may be one of the worst calls ever.

I tried to stay up and watch the whole game, but couldnt....In the umpire world this is what is called a "gross miss"....

There is no defense for missing this call....

While I doubt that it was done to intentionally end the game, all I can say is WOW! 7 hour game, everyone is tired, stuff happens.

As I always say, it should be the players that determine their wins or losses, not the officials.

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Thanks piaa_ump...your's is a credible call!



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Do you think it's possible that the umpire saw daylight between the glove on the runner?

I'm not defending the umpire, just trying to figure how what he must of seen to call himi save and the runner did make a point of touching homeplate.

AND sometimes as a umpire, one will just blow it for no apparent reason. Just blew it. It happens to all umpires IMHO.

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AND sometimes as a umpire, one will just blow it for no apparent reason.

When that happens, it always appears to me that the ump made the call based on what he expected to happen rather than what actually did happen. It's like they get surprised and their brain doesn't translate. Either that or a contact falls out at an unfortunate time.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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AND sometimes as a umpire, one will just blow it for no apparent reason.

When that happens, it always appears to me that the ump made the call based on what he expected to happen rather than what actually did happen. It's like they get surprised and their brain doesn't translate. Either that or a contact falls out at an unfortunate time.

Umpires are human, nobody said they were perfect, but they do a heck'va job 99% of the time.

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Originally posted by piaa_ump:
I tried to stay up and watch the whole game, but couldnt....In the umpire world this is what is called a "gross miss"....

There is no defense for missing this call....

What are your thoughts about how he was doing during the rest of the game?

I am particularly interested in what you think of his reaction to the Braves' pitcher in, I think, the 13th inning if you were able to make it that far (I gave up at midnight)?

Rumor has it that the same guy puts on an off season camp; one that's required of all Atlantic Coast Conference umpires.

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Originally posted by dw8man:

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Originally posted by piaa_ump:
I tried to stay up and watch the whole game, but couldnt....In the umpire world this is what is called a "gross miss"....

There is no defense for missing this call....

What are your thoughts about how he was doing during the rest of the game?

I am particularly interested in what you think of his reaction to the Braves' pitcher in, I think, the 13th inning if you were able to make it that far (I gave up at midnight)?

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I only made it to 12...but since you asked and I had the advantage of watching it on TV with replay and pitch trax it was clear he was struggling with his consistency from very early on.

The main example I can give is the first strikeout of McLouth...it came on a TV verfied out and low pitch...McLouth was visibly upset...

He was having a horrible night behind the plate...for both teams....and he was hearing it from the benches....(mostly Atlanta), understandably....

I know personally that as an umpire you will have those games where you just dont have it...you have to fight your way back pitch by pitch and hope your dont have one of those calls....


Meals is a veteran umpire and one that has a good reputation so I'm assuming this was just a road bump.....unfortunately it came at the expense of my Pirates.....

Yes, Meals had a horrible night behind the plate. But I think that some of the reactions are a little harsh. Look at the second video at about the 1:23 mark. It shows a replay from a different angle, close up. The catcher basically grazes him on the leg and never touches him on any other part of the body. Runner didn't beleive he was tagged either because he got up and hustled to the plate. So at full speed the ump is standing right there and sees a quick swipe and misses the grazing of the leg. The catcher clearly did not touch any other part of the body and just grazed the leg. I can see the ump missing it.

Maybe the catcher shouldn't be so cute and just apply the **** tag! This isn't second base. When did catchers start making swipe tags anyway???

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Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
Maybe the catcher shouldn't be so cute and just apply the **** tag! This isn't second base. When did catchers start making swipe tags anyway???

Had the tag resulted in an out it would only have been the second out and since the batter stumbled out of the box, it was a possible double play on the runner going to first....

A swipe tag in that instance makes sense......

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Originally posted by piaa_ump:
...since the batter stumbled out of the box, it was a possible double play on the runner going to first....

"stumbled" is putting it mildly. He flat out fell on his face. I'm surprised that isn't getting more highlight time - that there was funny.

Getagoodpitch

I got a different take when I saw Lugo's reaction. It looked to me like he was surprised by the safe call, did a quick little celebration before going back to touch the plate. I really thought he thought he was out.

The batter certainly ate the turf...which provided more than enough time to apply a solid tag and throw to 1B.

Furthermore, the catcher immediately looked straight to the ump for the call, NOT to 1B to make a throw. He should have been thinking double-play all the way. This simply wasn't the case. He never, in any way, made a move towards 1B.

This makes you wonder if the catcher himself thought he might have "ole'd" the tag. Combined with the runner jumping up to touch the plate, seems the play at real speed was a lot closer than everyone from a distance would beleive.

I thought maybe the catcher's body blocked the umpire from seeing the tag on the knee, since it looked like the swipe missed. ?

Yeah, the media is blowing this up as the worst call ever but, honestly, there are a few camera angles where I can't tell if the swipe tag made contact. And the ump only gets one angle.

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Originally posted by cabbagedad:
Yeah, the media is blowing this up as the worst call ever but, honestly, there are a few camera angles where I can't tell if the swipe tag made contact. And the ump only gets one angle.

Yep. Everybody sees the runner slide into the catcher nowhere near the plate and cannot possibly fathom that it was possible the catcher didn't actually tag him.

Pirates have filed a formal complaint.

hate to agree with an ump but after viewing the replay ymteen times the ump may have been right---the baserunners foot may have snuck in ahead of the tag

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Originally posted by YesReally:
Pirates have filed a formal complaint.

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"Yeah, the media is blowing this up..."

No, never!




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After looking at that play over and over, it's clear that the umpire was tired and wanted to go home or something fishy was going on. There's no other explanations. The catcher swiped him across his whole body long before he finally touched home plate. How the umpire missed that just don't fly.

Well, MLB says "oops" and "sorry..."


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s...ss-072711/?GT1=39002

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Originally posted by zombywoof:
After looking at that play over and over, it's clear that the umpire was tired and wanted to go home or something fishy was going on. There's no other explanations. The catcher swiped him across his whole body long before he finally touched home plate. How the umpire missed that just don't fly.

Other than the fact that if there was a tag, it was minimal. There's nothing fishy going on.

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Originally posted by zombywoof:
After looking at that play over and over, it's clear that the umpire was tired and wanted to go home or something fishy was going on. There's no other explanations. The catcher swiped him across his whole body long before he finally touched home plate. How the umpire missed that just don't fly.

That couldn't be further from what actually occurred. Did you really watch the replays and see the different angles? It is clear from a couple angles that if any tag was made it was in the slightest on the leg. One angle clearly shows that the catcher never touched the rest of his body. Not sure what it is your watching.

Bottom line. The runner was out by a mile. Ray Charles could've gotten that call right. A lesson that should be taken out of this play is the catcher shouldn't get cute and swipe tag a runner around home plate. Fortunalety, for the umpire, it happened in a game that will have litle impact on the Pirates season. If this were an important game for them, it would be different.

What's done is done. Time for them all to move on.

Julio Lugo, the runner knew he was out and only reacted by throwing his left foot onto the plate, jumping up and racing off to celebrate after he realized the call went his way. The throw was so far ahead of the runner the cather didn't have to block the plate but rather make a harmless swipe tag across the leg which connected as is plainly evident in the still photo under the clip. In defense of the catcher not throwing to first after the batter hit the deck, I believe he was focused on the runner coming home and the tag and had no idea that the batter had belly flopped.

Bottom line is the umpire watched the replays himself and admitted he got it wrong. End of story.

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Bottom line is the umpire watched the replays himself and admitted he got it wrong. End of story.

That doesn't help if it comes down to one game to decide the Central Division. And it could potentially do just that the way the division has gone so far this year..

Umpire Jerry Meals:

"After coming into the locker room, I reviewed the incident through our videos that we have in here and after seeing a few of them, on one particular replay, I was able to see that Lugo's pant leg moved ever so slightly when the swipe tag was attempted by McKenry," Meals said.

This is backed up by a replay shown on Baseball Tonight last night which shows a great view of the play from about the same angle as the umpire. It clearly shows that the swipe didn't even come close to any part of the body except for barely grazing the leg. This play play was nowhere near as clear-cut as the media and the whining Pirates would have you beleive. Just because the ball beats the runner doesn't mean he is out. There are 4 parts of the play that have to be executed:
1.Field it
2.Throw it
3.Catch it
4.Apply tag
The first 3 parts were executed flawlessly. The catcher screwed up part 4. If the catcher was only concerned with the runner coming home as most of you contend, then just apply a solid, fundamental tag. Don't be cute. Leave no doubt. Make the sure play.

BTW-This is not a meaningless game. The Pirates are, suprisingly, involved in the hotly contested NL Central pennant race. It may matter a whole lot in about 2 months.

You seem to be overly concerned with the tag being made lightly....

"grazed"...or "slightly" means tagged....the two rules that are involved are the MLB definitions of TAG and TOUCH.... both do not require a "solid or hard" tag...

A tag is the touch of the ball or the glove and ball on a runner....to touch is to touch any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment.....

Just as a ball grazing a batters shirt is a HBP, this is a tag...there is no lesser degrees of a tag....you either tag him or you dont...

for those defending the umpire saying he missed the tag then we should have more calls like that? Example the double play where the fielder just flashes across the bag and never touches it or when the first baseman comes off the bag before the ball gets there. he missed it big time. just like last year when the umpire missed the call at first with the perfect game or the world series with the cardinals and royals back in the 80's.
My guess he will be working the playoffs and possibly the world series

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Originally posted by piaa_ump:
You seem to be overly concerned with the tag being made lightly....

"grazed"...or "slightly" means tagged....the two rules that are involved are the MLB definitions of TAG and TOUCH.... both do not require a "solid or hard" tag...

A tag is the touch of the ball or the glove and ball on a runner....to touch is to touch any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment.....

Just as a ball grazing a batters shirt is a HBP, this is a tag...there is no lesser degrees of a tag....you either tag him or you dont...

No, I'm overly concerned with the media working everyone into a frenzy making out to be the worst call ever. It's not. Not even close. The play was not nearly as clear cut as everyone is trying to make it out to be, and in my opinion the catcher made it that way. It is easy, when viewed from the correct angle at real speed, why he made the call he did. Perhaps if his eyes and mind could have broken it down into slow motion replay at that instant, he would have got it right. Alas, he, like the rest of us, is only human.

As all directly involved, including the Pirates manager and catcher and the MLB front office,have stipulated, Jerry Meals is a good umpire. He does not have a reputation or record of missing calls.

This call was not as easy as those who have viewed countless replays from the couch represent it. After having a day to review the the play, even the MLB's report states that the umpire "probably" missed the call. The final proof of a tag, a slight movement of the the pant leg, was not visibile in real time, but only in slo-mo.

Those arguing that the "throw beat the runner" are living in the past. MLB, managers and the players union have all lobbied to put an end to the "expected call."

Those who think that this play should cost an umpire his job must then believe Orlando Hudson should be fired for his run causing brain phart.

Two outs? Really?

The call was missed. It won't be the last mistake an umpire makes. Hudson screwed up. It won't be the last mistkae a player makes. Both mistakes cost a run. Both of those responsible are good and talented people who, most likley, won't make the same mistake again. The sun will come up tomorrow.

I love how Hudson pats his chest to say "my bad". As if anyone on the planet though "hmmm, maybe it's not his fault".

Kind of amazing that call was missed. Guess I didn't see it as a tough call at all. The "ever so slight" movement of the pant leg seems like a feeble excuse for blowing that one. Bottom line he did not see a missed tag because it didn't occur. But he thought he saw a missed tag. 19 innings can cause fatigue and affect judgment.

Bottom line... It was a mistake. People make mistakes, even the best make mistakes.

I would have preferred hearing the umpire say something like... "I can't believe I blew that call".

An interesting tidbit I heard last night on the MLB Network...I forget who had the idea specifically but I thought it might be a good one nonetheless.

With all the talk about the potential necessity of instant replay, the question posed was this: In an extra inning game, should there be a limit at which an umpire can perform at his particular position? As mentioned, 19 innings behind the plate will be tiring on anyone, especially with the immense amount of concentration required. Maybe it'd be better for the game if say, after 11 innings, the umpires are required to change positions on the field. I understand the argument against this being the desire for consistency and a faster game, but it could be some food for thought.

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Originally posted by J H:
An interesting tidbit I heard last night on the MLB Network...I forget who had the idea specifically but I thought it might be a good one nonetheless.

With all the talk about the potential necessity of instant replay, the question posed was this: In an extra inning game, should there be a limit at which an umpire can perform at his particular position? As mentioned, 19 innings behind the plate will be tiring on anyone, especially with the immense amount of concentration required. Maybe it'd be better for the game if say, after 11 innings, the umpires are required to change positions on the field. I understand the argument against this being the desire for consistency and a faster game, but it could be some food for thought.

I've had some long games where I wished this was an option...

This has been discussed in the past. Pitchers and pitching coaches were vehement in their objections.