How do high school pitchers pitch around hitters, any examples. and is it the 3,4,5 hitters to pitch around.
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On HS teams, typically the best hitters are 2-5.
To pitch around these hitters, pitchers will typically throw off speed pitches in FB counts. They will be OK with walking a hitter especially one with no wheels. Ex: 3-1 CU or CB
They will also be more prone to do this with a runner in scoring position.
To pitch around these hitters, pitchers will typically throw off speed pitches in FB counts. They will be OK with walking a hitter especially one with no wheels. Ex: 3-1 CU or CB
They will also be more prone to do this with a runner in scoring position.
I found that few HS pitchers have the ability to pitch around hitters as they do at the upper levels. Most lineups have a most dangerous guy and you may want to make someone else beat you. In this situation I would give the hitter an IP (intentonal pass) which also will set up a force play for the infielders. There are some pitchers with exceptional command that can successfully pitch around a hitter but most HS pitchers lack thhis level of command.
i never pitch around hitters. to me thats just no funn
Pitching around a hitter: Definition- You are not going to throw him anything to hit. If he wants to swing at a fastball six inches off the plate and down thats fine. Worse case scenario if we execute is he will walk. Best case scenario is he will be so anxious to hit that he will swing at one of these pitches and pop it up or weakly ground out.
Pitching in reverse to 345- Definition- Keeping them off balance by throwing fastball in offspeed counts and off speed in fastball counts. Not giving in and allowing the better hitters to dictate the outcome of the game. Forcing the (weaker) hitters to beat you. No reason you can not pitch in reverse to all 9. Problem is some guys when facing dominate pitching are only capable of hitting the offspeed and this can play into their hands. If they cant catch up to the gas we dont want to slow it down enough for them to catch up. If we have never faced them before we learn from the first time through the order and go from there. Look out for that #8 hitter you dont know about. Most of the time this guy is the weakest hitter in the line up. But sometimes it is a kid that has been slumping a bit and has been put down there to see more fastballs. I have seen these guys break out big in games before because of this.
Pitching in reverse to 345- Definition- Keeping them off balance by throwing fastball in offspeed counts and off speed in fastball counts. Not giving in and allowing the better hitters to dictate the outcome of the game. Forcing the (weaker) hitters to beat you. No reason you can not pitch in reverse to all 9. Problem is some guys when facing dominate pitching are only capable of hitting the offspeed and this can play into their hands. If they cant catch up to the gas we dont want to slow it down enough for them to catch up. If we have never faced them before we learn from the first time through the order and go from there. Look out for that #8 hitter you dont know about. Most of the time this guy is the weakest hitter in the line up. But sometimes it is a kid that has been slumping a bit and has been put down there to see more fastballs. I have seen these guys break out big in games before because of this.
Coach May
You make a great point---every hitter is dangerous but I don't like pitching "around" any batter---let them earn the base-- I despise giving a hitter frist base for nothing--it usually comes back to huant you unless you are doing it with the specific purpose of setting up a DP situation
Also at the level our travel team plays the 8 and 9 hitters are # 3 or 4 hitters in their HS lineup so there are no "weak sisters" in the lineup--thus pitching around a hitter just puts another good hitter in the box.
I want our pitchers to challenge every batter-- make them earn the base--- also our pitchers need to learn that every fielder behind them is a "all star"--use them to your advnatage
You make a great point---every hitter is dangerous but I don't like pitching "around" any batter---let them earn the base-- I despise giving a hitter frist base for nothing--it usually comes back to huant you unless you are doing it with the specific purpose of setting up a DP situation
Also at the level our travel team plays the 8 and 9 hitters are # 3 or 4 hitters in their HS lineup so there are no "weak sisters" in the lineup--thus pitching around a hitter just puts another good hitter in the box.
I want our pitchers to challenge every batter-- make them earn the base--- also our pitchers need to learn that every fielder behind them is a "all star"--use them to your advnatage
I want my pitchers (true or not) to believe they are better than ANY hitter that steps into the box. We may pitch some hitters differently, but we will go right at hitters and make them get themselves out. Making good pitches and pitching around hitters are two different things in my book. We may not "give-in" to a hitter, but we will never pitch around one.
In high school you get cute and pitch around hitters the next thing the bases are juiced and the # 7 or 8 hitter bloops in a 2 run single and it goes on from there.
In HS, pitchers don't have good control, the defense it is not good, so, it is a bad decision to pitch around any hitter. I agree with the IBB in some cases.
hsbaseballcoach- Let me give you this scenario that we have had already this year. Our kid is 85-87 with very good controll. We are up 3-2 in the 6th. The other team has the tying run on second with two outs. The #5 hitter is up for them and he is 2-2 with two hard hit balls. The #6 on deck is 0-2 with two k's and swung on sound he was so overmatched on our kids fastball. Your saying you would not pitch around #5? You would go right at him? I say give him nothing to hit and go get #6, first is open anyway. Thats what we did and #6 Ks and we win 4-2. Dont let your marbles get in the way of your brain. I also disagree with the statement made by the other poster that HS kids cant play defense or throw location. We play outstanding defense and we throw location. And so do many of the teams we face. We have played 11 games and we have had 8 games with 0 errors. We have played 5 games with no errors by either team. Our team era is 1.78. Our bb ratio is 1.5 per 7 IP.
I can see that some people would pitch around dangerous hitters, but i found an easier way, most high school hitters if you buzz their tower up and in get real jumpy around the plate, and start worrying. I've found that by buzzing the tower of the teams best hitter it not only throws him off his game, and gets him thinkin about his safety, but that of the other players on the team, if they know i may just throw there at all times. So my plan is to get hitters out of their gameplan and goin on instinct, they tend to swing at more bad pitches. Now i am NOT by any means saying to hit anyone on purpose, i dont believe in that unless they deserve it. BUT if you have control, buzz his tower, and then he'll be out of his game.
Dont you think that it depends on the hitter? Some guys might get intimidated. Good hitters wont. They will know exactly what you are trying to do. It depends on the quality of the team you are facing and the quality of the hitter as well. If a kid is worried about someone throwing up and in on them they are not a hitter in the first place.
I have to agree with Coach May.
We often go to high school games to watch a certain high profile hitter. Often we see him never get a pitch to hit. It's disappointing, but the truth is it happens a lot. Ask any scout, believe it, they know just how often it happens.
If I were coaching the other team and my choice was to pitch to one of the best hitters in the country or take my chances with the next guy, I'd do the same thing. Unless he can't beat us in that at bat!
There are hitters who are much more likely to hit one out vs the next guy getting a base hit. Most every coach has experienced the above at least once if not more.
The reports we get from scouts on top players often includes "they're not pitching to him". It's a very common comment.
If the difference between Barry Bonds (constantly pitched around)and the next San Francisco Giant (MLB hitter) in the order is that great... Wouldn't it stand to reason that a first round hitter being followed by someone who will not play beyond high school is just as great a difference.
My thinking is let someone other than the first rounder beat you. Take the chances on the next hitter.
I do hate to watch it, but sure do understand it! Anyhow, that's my opinion on the subject. If you play with fire... you're gonna get burnt sooner or later!
We often go to high school games to watch a certain high profile hitter. Often we see him never get a pitch to hit. It's disappointing, but the truth is it happens a lot. Ask any scout, believe it, they know just how often it happens.
If I were coaching the other team and my choice was to pitch to one of the best hitters in the country or take my chances with the next guy, I'd do the same thing. Unless he can't beat us in that at bat!
There are hitters who are much more likely to hit one out vs the next guy getting a base hit. Most every coach has experienced the above at least once if not more.
The reports we get from scouts on top players often includes "they're not pitching to him". It's a very common comment.
If the difference between Barry Bonds (constantly pitched around)and the next San Francisco Giant (MLB hitter) in the order is that great... Wouldn't it stand to reason that a first round hitter being followed by someone who will not play beyond high school is just as great a difference.
My thinking is let someone other than the first rounder beat you. Take the chances on the next hitter.
I do hate to watch it, but sure do understand it! Anyhow, that's my opinion on the subject. If you play with fire... you're gonna get burnt sooner or later!
AHSpitcher17 brings up yet another point. Of course he is a high school pitcher who throws in the 90s.
If you have a highest level pitcher on the mound it's a different ballgame. Scouts love these confrontations!
The highest level pitcher is expected to go after the highest level hitter.
Still with the winning run at 2B and 1B open, the smart thing is to give the highest level hitter 1B.
If you have a highest level pitcher on the mound it's a different ballgame. Scouts love these confrontations!
The highest level pitcher is expected to go after the highest level hitter.
Still with the winning run at 2B and 1B open, the smart thing is to give the highest level hitter 1B.
This is another one of those baeball "things" that draws great conversation and each of us has our own thoughts regarding it.
This is what makes the game that great
PG --2 out winning run at second do you walk the bext batter to set up a force at any base but home or do you go at him. Or are just not pitching to him because of who he is?
This is what makes the game that great
PG --2 out winning run at second do you walk the bext batter to set up a force at any base but home or do you go at him. Or are just not pitching to him because of who he is?
Trhit
If you walk him and you get out of the inning you are a genius. If you dont and he beats you you are an idiot. Just ask the people in the stands.
If you walk him and you get out of the inning you are a genius. If you dont and he beats you you are an idiot. Just ask the people in the stands.
Will
Isnt that what makes this game so great?
Isnt that what makes this game so great?
Trhit
Hindsight is 20 20.
Hindsight is 20 20.
TR, To answer your question.
In most all cases I would intentionally walk the next hitter.
However, if the guy "on deck" is by far the top hitter, I will pitch to the hitter even with first base open and then if I get him out... walk the top guy.
So it's a combination of:
1. The entire situation
2. The hitter
3. My pitcher
4. The hitter on deck
5. Possibly the hitter after him
6. Depending on number of outs even the next hitter.
Nothing new here, I think that's the way everyone looks at it. Including you TR.
quote:PG --2 out winning run at second do you walk the bext batter to set up a force at any base but home or do you go at him. Or are just not pitching to him because of who he is?
In most all cases I would intentionally walk the next hitter.
However, if the guy "on deck" is by far the top hitter, I will pitch to the hitter even with first base open and then if I get him out... walk the top guy.
So it's a combination of:
1. The entire situation
2. The hitter
3. My pitcher
4. The hitter on deck
5. Possibly the hitter after him
6. Depending on number of outs even the next hitter.
Nothing new here, I think that's the way everyone looks at it. Including you TR.
PG I agree
Too many ingredients to make a general rule--- then Again I have pitchers look me in the eye and say " I got the abtter Coach dont worry about it"
Also have had pitchers say "this guys been ripping me all game coach--I want to walk him and get the next guy"
All different situations and players
Too many ingredients to make a general rule--- then Again I have pitchers look me in the eye and say " I got the abtter Coach dont worry about it"
Also have had pitchers say "this guys been ripping me all game coach--I want to walk him and get the next guy"
All different situations and players
Coach May
I am "the other poster" that said that HS pitchers don't have good control, and defense is poor. And I keep my words. May be your team has a great defense, and may be your pitchers put the ball on the spot all the time, but in general, in HS baseball, most of the runs come from errors and BB. When you are pitching around a hitter, there are too many factors involved in the strategy: ( You need a pitcher that don't miss the spot, a catcher that block well the pitch if it is wild, etc...).
For that reason, at this level the most appropiate way to elude a hitter, is to give him the IBB. Anyways pitching around a hitter, is an intentional walk, with the risk of a wild pitch. Of course, in baseball, every one have their own way to do the same thing, trying to win.
I am "the other poster" that said that HS pitchers don't have good control, and defense is poor. And I keep my words. May be your team has a great defense, and may be your pitchers put the ball on the spot all the time, but in general, in HS baseball, most of the runs come from errors and BB. When you are pitching around a hitter, there are too many factors involved in the strategy: ( You need a pitcher that don't miss the spot, a catcher that block well the pitch if it is wild, etc...).
For that reason, at this level the most appropiate way to elude a hitter, is to give him the IBB. Anyways pitching around a hitter, is an intentional walk, with the risk of a wild pitch. Of course, in baseball, every one have their own way to do the same thing, trying to win.
Coach May,
We have certainly been in the spot before ourselves. I feel that it is different to place a man on to face a different hitter than to pitch around a hitter. That is just sound strategy. Would we throw one pitch to that hitter, probably not. It wouldn't be sound. We intentionally put him on and tell the pitcher this guy is all yours go get him. I simply don't understand the teams that are afraid to throw against good hitters at all. There was a team last year that intentionally walked in a run with the bases loaded rather than to pitch to a good hitter and lost by 2. We faced the same hitter 2 days later with a pitcher that was not of the same calliber and went 0-3. We made good pitches and he got himself out. Congratulations on the win by the way.
We have certainly been in the spot before ourselves. I feel that it is different to place a man on to face a different hitter than to pitch around a hitter. That is just sound strategy. Would we throw one pitch to that hitter, probably not. It wouldn't be sound. We intentionally put him on and tell the pitcher this guy is all yours go get him. I simply don't understand the teams that are afraid to throw against good hitters at all. There was a team last year that intentionally walked in a run with the bases loaded rather than to pitch to a good hitter and lost by 2. We faced the same hitter 2 days later with a pitcher that was not of the same calliber and went 0-3. We made good pitches and he got himself out. Congratulations on the win by the way.