quote:126 is a big deal.
IYO...
IYO...
IYO...
FWIW, from one MLB farm system:
Any pitcher who tops 30 pitches in an inning must be pulled immediately.
Pitchers cannot exceed their previous pitch count by 10 for the first three games of a season.
Pitchers in Class A and lower never can top 100 pitches in a game. That number is 110 in Class AA, 120 in Class AAA.
Bear in mind - this is for the pros. Not HS.
Any pitcher who tops 30 pitches in an inning must be pulled immediately.
Pitchers cannot exceed their previous pitch count by 10 for the first three games of a season.
Pitchers in Class A and lower never can top 100 pitches in a game. That number is 110 in Class AA, 120 in Class AAA.
Bear in mind - this is for the pros. Not HS.
tex
"bear in mind" 7 days rest versus 5 and "bear in mind" 30 starts versus 10.... Im not advocating running HS pitchers out thier for over 100+ pitches every outing, but what if it happens 1 or 2 times over the season? IMO its not that big a deal on proper rest which I feel is a week for HSer's if they get into heavey pitch counts... Again, im NOT advocating high pitch counts in youths, just proper rest....
quote:Bear in mind - this is for the pros. Not HS
"bear in mind" 7 days rest versus 5 and "bear in mind" 30 starts versus 10.... Im not advocating running HS pitchers out thier for over 100+ pitches every outing, but what if it happens 1 or 2 times over the season? IMO its not that big a deal on proper rest which I feel is a week for HSer's if they get into heavey pitch counts... Again, im NOT advocating high pitch counts in youths, just proper rest....
I can say this, as a pitcher... it's exponentially more difficult/harmful to throw (random number) 80 pitches on (random day) Tuesday and then throw (random number) 40 pitches on (random day) Friday. For those pitches on Friday, my arm might feel fine, but Saturday I'll feel it... and constant use like this will inevitably damage muscles.
When I had my most recent of arm injuries, the doctor asked if I threw tons of pitches in repeated starts (excessive he said anywhere over 100-110)... I said no. He said did you frequently pitch and then play an infield position other than first... I said yes. Did you pitch a reasonable amount, even small amount (40-60) and then come back on short rest (2-3 days) and pitch again... I said yes. He said it was pretty obvious that my problem wasn't overuse in any one single start or outing, but that I wasn't giving my body enough time to "fix" itself. He said pitching and then going to play a position later that day (especially if you have to re-warm up) is just as harmful as pitching on short rest or throwing too many pitches. It goes into fibers and healing... etc. This is MY personal experience... and not to be considered a statement of absolute fact. However, when coaches only look at pitch counts... they can miss other things like playing SS/RF/etc.
Also, look at the intensity of the pitches... I can throw 100 pitches same general velocity when I rarely have anyone on base, but then 80 pitches could tire me out if I'm constantly working from the stretch or in intense situations.
When I had my most recent of arm injuries, the doctor asked if I threw tons of pitches in repeated starts (excessive he said anywhere over 100-110)... I said no. He said did you frequently pitch and then play an infield position other than first... I said yes. Did you pitch a reasonable amount, even small amount (40-60) and then come back on short rest (2-3 days) and pitch again... I said yes. He said it was pretty obvious that my problem wasn't overuse in any one single start or outing, but that I wasn't giving my body enough time to "fix" itself. He said pitching and then going to play a position later that day (especially if you have to re-warm up) is just as harmful as pitching on short rest or throwing too many pitches. It goes into fibers and healing... etc. This is MY personal experience... and not to be considered a statement of absolute fact. However, when coaches only look at pitch counts... they can miss other things like playing SS/RF/etc.
Also, look at the intensity of the pitches... I can throw 100 pitches same general velocity when I rarely have anyone on base, but then 80 pitches could tire me out if I'm constantly working from the stretch or in intense situations.
quote:Originally posted by deemax:quote:126 is a big deal.
IYO...
In alot of other peoples opinion as well. See post from Texan in same string. Other posts have good points as well related to rest, playing other positions. Types of pitches thrown and ease of throwing motion also matter.... but anyway, 126 is a lot of pitches in one day so tread carefully.
I cautiously give my input here, but I tend to agree with alot of what alot of previous posts say. Specifically, pitch count is relevant, but it needs to be used as ONE of the indicators of when a pitcher should be pulled.
And what do you consider a "pitch count"? What about the 30-50 pitches thrown in the bullpen before the game begins? What about how some HS pitchers do a horrible job warming up and come out throwing in the first inning without doing a proper warmup? How do you account for the pitcher that keeps his weight back properly, has good arm extension, and doesn't throw across his body versus the kid who does everything "wrong" and puts extra stress on his elbow and shoulder (and believe me, mechanics have MORE to do with injuries than the number of pitches thrown in my opinion).
There are so many factors that influence pitching injuries that to focus on just pitch count can lead to more problems, because the other factors that matter are not properly dealt with.
So far my son has pitched complete games every start this season (with the exception of one back in the McKinney tournament where he got pulled before he got the first OUT!)and I have never counted pitches yet (and I never have in the past). Pitch count for me is not an issue - his summer coach takes care of him and so does his high school coach. I trust both of those men completely. But the primary responsibility is Brian's - proper mechanics and proper warm up. The best way to keep pitch counts down is to throw strikes and don't walk batters - and that is up to the pitcher.
The biggest problem my son has ever had with his arm was because of a 4 wheeler. Those things are not condusive to healthy pitchers I can tell you.
And what do you consider a "pitch count"? What about the 30-50 pitches thrown in the bullpen before the game begins? What about how some HS pitchers do a horrible job warming up and come out throwing in the first inning without doing a proper warmup? How do you account for the pitcher that keeps his weight back properly, has good arm extension, and doesn't throw across his body versus the kid who does everything "wrong" and puts extra stress on his elbow and shoulder (and believe me, mechanics have MORE to do with injuries than the number of pitches thrown in my opinion).
There are so many factors that influence pitching injuries that to focus on just pitch count can lead to more problems, because the other factors that matter are not properly dealt with.
So far my son has pitched complete games every start this season (with the exception of one back in the McKinney tournament where he got pulled before he got the first OUT!)and I have never counted pitches yet (and I never have in the past). Pitch count for me is not an issue - his summer coach takes care of him and so does his high school coach. I trust both of those men completely. But the primary responsibility is Brian's - proper mechanics and proper warm up. The best way to keep pitch counts down is to throw strikes and don't walk batters - and that is up to the pitcher.
The biggest problem my son has ever had with his arm was because of a 4 wheeler. Those things are not condusive to healthy pitchers I can tell you.