+ Happy Mother's Day
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Good stuff, but you will find many here that will not agree.
I like the part about participating in other sports. Good point.
JMO.
I like the part about participating in other sports. Good point.
JMO.
operations for kids baseball injury's ..........sad. asmi used to say no curves, now some say it's ok........Dr.Andrew's doesn't like kids throwing curves, and he makes a living off it. learn the fastball, cu.
good stuff though.
good stuff though.
Kid in NY , senior in HS, threw a 14 inning complete game 193 pitch game---he is signed with a D-I school and coach is expoected to have a meeting today with the young man
If I were the D1 coach, I'd also be having a meeting with the HS coach...
While I am not hard core about pitch limits for older HS kids as I do think that it varies by kid and by day, there is a line beyond which there is no doubt of overuse in my mind - and 193 is definitely across that line.
While I am not hard core about pitch limits for older HS kids as I do think that it varies by kid and by day, there is a line beyond which there is no doubt of overuse in my mind - and 193 is definitely across that line.
08
What is even weirder is that the HS coach is a longtime and very highly rspected gentleman
What is even weirder is that the HS coach is a longtime and very highly rspected gentleman
And the beat goes on! Another article and another now university willing to give
foolish non-scientific recommendations with no understanding of what is really happening to fix the problem.
Pitch counts are NOT what is destroying youth and adult arms!!!!
Mechanics are what is destroying youth and adult arms!!!!
“The wrist-rolling motion used to give curveballs their spin is considered particularly risky for elbows, so Rush physicians suggest any pitcher under the age of 14 stick to throwing fastballs and changeups. Proper conditioning, sound mechanics and detecting pain early all can help minimize the need for surgery, Bach said.”
Why would chronologically aged 14 YO be the recommendation when there is a 4-year spread in male biological age and the elbows growth plates solidify at biologically aged 16 year olds?
This same “wrist rolling” motion (supination, thumb up elbow down across the chest) is also performed when throwing a fastball and many other pitches not just curveballs and until we teach our youth and adult pitchers how to “wrist-rolling” that is actually a forearm problem by pronating (thumb down, elbow up at finish) we will always see these well meaning but absolutely wrong in there conclusions and recommendations keep getting it wrong by blaming pitch counts.
There is only one reason for lowering the pitch count with youth pitchers and that is bone deformation even with the non-injurious pronated pitches.
These organizations have done more harm by continually getting this wrong.
This recommendation is right on a par with ASMI’s recommendation and we still have
the same injury ratios with spring time only pitchers!! This means they have failed miserably in their GUESSING game and should be ignored as research institutions.
Youth pitchers should not be pitching more than two innings a week period and only during the spring to lighten the bone deformation at this critical growth period.
foolish non-scientific recommendations with no understanding of what is really happening to fix the problem.
Pitch counts are NOT what is destroying youth and adult arms!!!!
Mechanics are what is destroying youth and adult arms!!!!
“The wrist-rolling motion used to give curveballs their spin is considered particularly risky for elbows, so Rush physicians suggest any pitcher under the age of 14 stick to throwing fastballs and changeups. Proper conditioning, sound mechanics and detecting pain early all can help minimize the need for surgery, Bach said.”
Why would chronologically aged 14 YO be the recommendation when there is a 4-year spread in male biological age and the elbows growth plates solidify at biologically aged 16 year olds?
This same “wrist rolling” motion (supination, thumb up elbow down across the chest) is also performed when throwing a fastball and many other pitches not just curveballs and until we teach our youth and adult pitchers how to “wrist-rolling” that is actually a forearm problem by pronating (thumb down, elbow up at finish) we will always see these well meaning but absolutely wrong in there conclusions and recommendations keep getting it wrong by blaming pitch counts.
There is only one reason for lowering the pitch count with youth pitchers and that is bone deformation even with the non-injurious pronated pitches.
These organizations have done more harm by continually getting this wrong.
This recommendation is right on a par with ASMI’s recommendation and we still have
the same injury ratios with spring time only pitchers!! This means they have failed miserably in their GUESSING game and should be ignored as research institutions.
Youth pitchers should not be pitching more than two innings a week period and only during the spring to lighten the bone deformation at this critical growth period.
yardbird
Before I would listen to your selected drivel I would listen to this college coach --I know him for quite a long time now--- and OH by the way speaks a language that players understand, not your sort of glossory which anyone can get from wkipedia
Before I would listen to your selected drivel I would listen to this college coach --I know him for quite a long time now--- and OH by the way speaks a language that players understand, not your sort of glossory which anyone can get from wkipedia
Trhit,
Yes, I agree you would, this is why the miss-information keeps on keepen on and again the drivel is the Kool aid.
And you are complaining about my language!? How old are you?
I was speaking to the players 2% and adults that post here 98% of the time whom can actually make a difference.
At least you are referencing, Go to the glossary and look up glossory then pop off about language? good job, that was a double oxy moron! I wonder why all of my youth players understand what they have learned but some adults (I think you’re an adult?) do not?
quote:“Before I would listen to your selected drivel I would listen to this college coach”
Yes, I agree you would, this is why the miss-information keeps on keepen on and again the drivel is the Kool aid.
quote:“I know him for quite a long time now”
And you are complaining about my language!? How old are you?
quote:“OH by the way speaks a language that players understand,”
I was speaking to the players 2% and adults that post here 98% of the time whom can actually make a difference.
quote:“ not your sort of glossory which anyone can get from wkipedia”
At least you are referencing, Go to the glossary and look up glossory then pop off about language? good job, that was a double oxy moron! I wonder why all of my youth players understand what they have learned but some adults (I think you’re an adult?) do not?
yardbird---
As usual excuses and questions as answers to questions---
I am sorry OL' SUPERIOR ONE---but you still speak drivel despite believing genius in your own little mind
As usual excuses and questions as answers to questions---
I am sorry OL' SUPERIOR ONE---but you still speak drivel despite believing genius in your own little mind
Trhit,
And here I thaught we were talking about mechanics and related stress levels.Why did you change the subject? I know your mother taught you not to play with matches especially on Mothers day? Oh and please quit not answering legitimate questions!
Generalities, name it?
You never answer questions!
I will always answer your respectful questions in kind.
UH OH! Have we lost you? Why are you this upset about the difference between supination and pronation? Does not make much sense to me?
Wow that was heavy, can I use that in the future? Some times I put ice in my Kool-aid to cool down. For extreme drivel I use a bib.
And here I thaught we were talking about mechanics and related stress levels.Why did you change the subject? I know your mother taught you not to play with matches especially on Mothers day? Oh and please quit not answering legitimate questions!
quote:“As usual excuses”
Generalities, name it?
quote:“questions as answers”
You never answer questions!
quote:“to questions”
I will always answer your respectful questions in kind.
quote:“I am sorry OL' SUPERIOR ONE”
UH OH! Have we lost you? Why are you this upset about the difference between supination and pronation? Does not make much sense to me?
quote:“but you still speak drivel despite believing genius in your own little mind”
Wow that was heavy, can I use that in the future? Some times I put ice in my Kool-aid to cool down. For extreme drivel I use a bib.
I don't see much in that article you can argue with. I think of pitching like driving a car. Can you drive safely at 75, 85, 95...sure, but the room for error gets smaller and smaller. Because of this we get lower speed limits to be safer for all, and safer for those that don't drive with proper techniques, rest, etc.
Just like pitching. Not all parents and coaches know the exact proper mechanics, or how a young arm will handle pitching stress. Pitch counts for more inexperienced/younger pitchers protect them. Can some throw more safely, sure. Can some throw curveballs safely, sure. Based on the number of surgeries on teen arms today, I would say the doctors are only trying to protect young arms. I would question an arm surgeon who says throw more...not one who says throw less.
Just like pitching. Not all parents and coaches know the exact proper mechanics, or how a young arm will handle pitching stress. Pitch counts for more inexperienced/younger pitchers protect them. Can some throw more safely, sure. Can some throw curveballs safely, sure. Based on the number of surgeries on teen arms today, I would say the doctors are only trying to protect young arms. I would question an arm surgeon who says throw more...not one who says throw less.
yardbird
Where did you get that from what I posted?
As usual you changed the direction of the thread to siut your drivel
Where did you get that from what I posted?
As usual you changed the direction of the thread to siut your drivel
Tx-husker,
If you were talking to me, were you talken ta me!
It’s the perpetuated premise that pitch count is what injures your arm that is not the case!
It is mechanics you use. And I am in full agreement with you on your post with injurious mechanics and the number of times you can keep improperly projecting your body.
These pitch count numbers are still way to high to make it safer in any way and in way too much yearly duration the younger they are. If they were doing real science things would be recommended entirely differently.
Trhit,
At High school baseball web
I believe the standard deviation is owned by you then foolishly answered by me!
If you are going to draw first blood pick on somebody more mature than me!!
Back to mechanics.
If you were talking to me, were you talken ta me!
quote:“I don't see much in that article you can argue with”
It’s the perpetuated premise that pitch count is what injures your arm that is not the case!
It is mechanics you use. And I am in full agreement with you on your post with injurious mechanics and the number of times you can keep improperly projecting your body.
These pitch count numbers are still way to high to make it safer in any way and in way too much yearly duration the younger they are. If they were doing real science things would be recommended entirely differently.
Trhit,
quote:“Where did you get that from what I posted?”
At High school baseball web
quote:”As usual you changed the direction of the thread to siut your drivel”
I believe the standard deviation is owned by you then foolishly answered by me!
If you are going to draw first blood pick on somebody more mature than me!!
Back to mechanics.