pitchers elbow height

How about equal to?

agree, but dont we hear elbow up all the time...?

"for maximum velocity" are the words key to the answer which I believe is that the elbow should be "above the shoulder." Why???? Because that is the position from which you can take the shortest and most direct path to the plate while remaining "behind the ball" applying force. If you drop the arm, your path to the plate is an arc. That may prove efficient for you and provide movement, but it does not maximize velocity.

quote:

Because that is the position from which you can take the shortest and most direct path to the plate while remaining "behind the ball" applying force

Maybe if you are strickly linear in your delivery. If you rotate in delivery it is no closer or farther than equal to.
Here is King Felix in slo-mo, at the 14 sec mark he's at the power position
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EB6qsC_Mdg

ok thanks, i asked this question and then i found the best answer i think possible...
http://chrisoleary.com/project...tchingMechanics.html

Now I have to go wash off..get the agree with Chris stink offa me JK!
TPM is there just any chance we can see some updated vid of that fine pitcher of a son of yours?

Once you spend a little time looking into, pitching....actually almost anything in baseball you find there is no singularly right person. Even Mike Marshall has some good points, you just need to add in your own filter.

I believe TPM's son is rehabbing. My understanding is that most MLB pitchers are just now starting to pick up a baseball.

As usual O'Leary has twisted things to fit his notions. Foot plant for Kopp occurs at frame 72 not frame 74 and that's the key point. The Hernandez video doesn't allow you to see where his arm is at the instant of foot plant since foot plant occurs somewhere between 13 and 14 seconds. There's a range but the ideal from a combination of velocity and safety is rotated about 60 degrees up from horizontal with the elbow somewhere around being inline with the shoulder. The height of the elbow at foot plant is relatively insignificant.

The ideal for velocity is roughly rotated horizontal at foot plant such as Lincecum or Carpenter but that can be tough on the arm.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
There's a range but the ideal from a combination of velocity and safety is rotated about 60 degrees up from horizontal with the elbow somewhere around being inline with the shoulder. The height of the elbow at foot plant is relatively insignificant.

The ideal for velocity is roughly rotated horizontal at foot plant such as Lincecum or Carpenter but that can be tough on the arm.

Where are these angles being derived from CADad? I'm having trouble visualizing them.

quote:

I believe TPM's son is rehabbing

I hope he comes out the other side free of issues .
Well even from the last year it would be interesting, this has been up on his site for a couple of years now.

And CADAD I agree that footplant doesn't coincide with the exact power position with Felix (Time-wise)..at 14 he is roughly at pp but enough so to make my point (He does have a higher arm slot but the arm at pp is even). I would say many or most rotational pitchers are within a couple of degrees of even.

Rob,
At foot plant a RHP's forearm should be somewhere between pointing toward the third base dugout and pointing straight up. When the forearm is pointing at the third base dugout it is roughly parallel with the ground. So if the arm is a bit less than 2/3 of the way from parallel to straight up at foot plant then it is "ideal" if there is such a thing.

If you were the batter then the pitcher's forearm would look like this at foot plant:

o
*
* straight up
*
*

or

0******* parallel

or o
----*
-----*
------*
-------*

The bottom one is what some people call ideal.

Generally speaking it is the upper body rotation that causes external rotation so if a pitcher's arm is parallel to the ground at foot plant then they haven't started rotating the upper body yet and have maximal separation between the upper body and the hips and the external rotation will have to happen more quickly resulting in increased velocity. The majority of high level pitchers are between parallel and straight up at that point although there are a few who can generate high velocities with the arm straight up. Oswalt and Papelbon seem to do so. Oswalt is moving everything so quickly that the timing works out right for him. Got me how it works for Papelbon.

Sorry I got on a tangent from the original subject.

jd,
I tend to shy away from the typical definition of foot plant and to use the moment that the foot is first fully in contact with the ground. The moment where the foot first touches is pretty meaningless as some pitchers come down toe first, some come down flat and some come down heel first. Firmly planted is a continuum that is hard to determine so what I like to use is the first point at which the foot is fully down. A large percentage of MLB pitchers seem to be in a similar position at that point in their motions.

BTW, I was looking at some stuff and I think the reason that some pitchers lift with their elbows and do the reverse W is so that they can delay their arms such that their forearms are closer to parallel at foot plant thereby resulting in more velocity. I don't think the reverse W is inherently bad. If a pitcher does the reverse W and it gets him to between parallel and straight up instead of straight up then there's not much more risk. If it gets him to parallel or not even there yet at full foot contact then that's where the added risk comes in. JMO.

thanks, good points. i just wondered about this because i found my elbow use to be slightly below my shoulder but is now higher than my elbow

Gotcha.

That makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by jdfromfla:
Now I have to go wash off..get the agree with Chris stink offa me JK!
TPM is there just any chance we can see some updated vid of that fine pitcher of a son of yours?

JD,
How are ya? DK is done with rehabbing, after arthoscopic surgery to make more room from an unusually large cortacoid bone. He is on his toss program and will return to Jupiter when he is ready to start from the mound under the supervision of the head trainer. Since that film, the mechnaics remain the same. Just a bigger guy now with more power.
No new video floating around that I know of.
I agree with BOF, because each pitcher is unique and some have their own set of mechanics and not been injured, you need to approach everything with an open mind. What you do need to do is have all the right stuff working (that each pitcher has) in order to achieve your max velocity while trying to avoid injury.

quote:

because each pitcher is unique and some have their own set of mechanics and not been injured, you need to approach everything with an open mind

Even a broken clock is right twice a day
We've had that discussion I was being glib about Chris..
"Once you spend a little time looking into, pitching....actually almost anything in baseball you find there is no singularly right person. Even Mike Marshall has some good points, you just need to add in your own filter.
Many comments come to mind about this statement...but I'll just say that I agree.

Really thrilled to hear your boy is back in the saddle again.
I hope he has a great year.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Generally speaking it is the upper body rotation that causes external rotation so if a pitcher's arm is parallel to the ground at foot plant then they haven't started rotating the upper body yet and have maximal separation between the upper body and the hips and the external rotation will have to happen more quickly resulting in increased velocity.

Great explanation.

CADad is beginning to sound a little Yardbirdish.

To many maximals, rotations, and separations for me to follow.

BOF,
Point well taken, but don't you think you could have done it without referencing Yardbird?