Pitching at the next level

The biggest challenge in HS is learning to balance class, workouts, travel and 5 day a week games.

Seriously, for any player who is a stud in HS, you get to the next level and you are not a stud anymore. In son's case he was a skinney RHP pitcher who needed lots of strength and conditioning to even LOOK like a player. That takes years to achieve.

The biggest challenge was learning to make adjustments to his mechanics. Each time adjustments were made, he had to remember how to use those adjustments without falling into old habits. That often translates into not doing your best, and how to mentally overcome those down times. In the college game, you don't have much wiggle room to make mistakes, every inning counts, on the pro level, those set backs somtimes are expected and your progress is measured over time, moving from level to level after you have achieved the desired success.

Being a 90+ guy, in HS it's easy to blow it past the hitter, even if you make a mistake, chances are you still will dominate, in college they feast on those 90+ mistakes.

My son found very little difference in the pitching itself.
He found that he had to be patient to get an opportunity to show what he could do. If you had a bad outting you tend to sit for awhile. In HS/travel ball you are the guy they go to and they give you a bigger lattitude to fail. College they tend to yank you pretty quick in the freshman year. My son was always a starter throwing complete games and he only went 6+ inns once or twice in the last 2 years. This is hard to adjust to.
Other than that he found little difference.

I cannot beleive that your son found no difference in pitching in college. I don't care what level you play, there is a difference.

Yanking a player and making him sit is the WORST thing to do. Good coaches keep giving opportunities even after bad games so players don't lose confidance. Coaches will do everything they can to make their pitchers productive and not be bench sitters.

If pitchers don't make necessary adjustments, reject improvements, then they sit.

TPM this is what he said to me several times.

My son has had bad games and learned to deal with it. He never gets upset and understands that he has bad games. part of being a pitcher as you know.
He has pitched against batters that are bigger stronger and more experienced than D1 college players.
In our case he found the hardest thing was limited time on the mound. As you know in his Freshman year he only had 13 inns. He gave up 9 ers and 4 of them were in 1 inn against Miss State. He couldn't throw a strike if he was paid. He said his ball was moving way too much and just missing. Everything that could go wrong did like a bunt that was foul and kicked in down the line. This is part of BB. You have to be prepared to live through those things. The hardest part is letting your team down but he has learned over the years to handel that to. We talk about playing up. This is were it comes into play.

quote:

In the college game, you don't have much wiggle room to make mistakes, every inning counts, on the pro level, those set backs somtimes are expected and your progress is measured over time, moving from level to level after you have achieved the desired success.

This is such a true statement.
Many levels of baseball, College are Pro's.
And each one has it's own set of challenges.
Some players skip level's and move to the top.
Other's use every level to achieve there goal.

No Matter what level, Throw Strikes.

The level of competition that a player has seen previous to moving up will determine how much difficulty there will be in the transition.

The players who have played quality travel ball and participated in major PG events will be better prepared mentally than a player who has not.

For pitchers, having the mindset that there are no easy outs at the next level maintains their concentration and respect for every batter faced.

It is often a case of success being a meeting of preparation and opportunity.

Love I am not sure where your son is at but high 80s fast ball and hitting the ball out of the park will get him opportunities.
My son was an 80-82 mph FB guy and they usually come out of the bull pen for a year or 2. He has gained a few mph and will get his chances this year. If you go on the mound you have to believe you can handel the hitters. This is why pitchers should face the best competition they can. Not all players are the same but you have to believe you can do it.
Some more experienced guys will lay off the off speeds so you have to establish that you can throw them for strikes or you will have a tough otting.
As far as adjusting your pitcher should be doing that already. Some days you should have just stayed in bed.

I am not sure if this was right, but after every bad outing my son was a bear, hit the practice mound to correct what ever he did wrong. If the game didn't go right because of his defense, there was nothing he could do about that and that happened often. Being a ground ball pitcher, those are the drawbacks if your team doesn't show up that day. He never blamed anyone if he got the L or no decision but himself.

IMO, accepting some things turns to complacency. If he accepted it as, oh well, not sure he would still be playing, but that's him.

He had tremendous support. The first year it was deemed a learning experience. After that he got his butt kicked in for not listening. That butt kicking, which we were in favor of, drove him to make sure he didn't repeat mistakes.

1) Trust your stuff. "Growing up a freshman" as coaches say is not easy. Establishing yourself in practice is great, but can go out the window the first time in a game. Confidence from game success is well earned.

Learning to trust your stuff, while adjusting to deeper, stronger line-ups with hitters 2 and 3 years older, is the most difficult adjustment, and required very quickly. Good coaching helps the transition, but the kids nee to throw the ball. Some take longer than others. Some never really make the adjustment.

quote:

The level of competition that a player has seen previous to moving up will determine how much difficulty there will be in the transition

This is so true.

My son's former pitching coach had a great philososphy he preached to the pitchers.

I will never take the ball away from you, you will take it away from yourself.

I like a pitching coach who will umpire intersquad games behind the plate.

He gets to watch out for tipping and mechanical adjustments that may make the pitcher more effective.

When learning a new pitch tipping is oftentimes a problem.

Perhaps one of the most important things you can pass on to your son about moving to college: keep up with your studies everyday because time becomes a precious commodity, especially when the season begins and you are missing classes and you have to keep up anyway. Once you get behind, catching up becomes very difficult. Make some non-baseball friends in your classes so you can get the notes you missed.

As far as baseball, my son commented once that moving to the college ranks forced him to improve his game. He noted mistakes that earned him K's in HS were over the fence in college...and this was at the JUCO level for the last two years. Every guy you are facing has earned his spot onto a college roster. They are bigger, stronger and are more serious about playing the game.

You also have to earn and re-earn your spot in the rotation.
Last year, he was coming off surgery with a new coach so when the season started, he was considered the low end of the depth chart since the coach had never seen him pitch. As the first-in guys started to have some bad innings, he was given the chance to step in. About a quarter-way through conference play, he had earned a spot as a starter...but he knew he had to produce if he wanted to stay there.

I would agree with TPM that as a pitcher, a lot of self-analysis and work on your own can make or break your level of success. I know one time his pitching coach at his JUCO told him that "there isn't much for me to say to you; you're making the adjustments before I get a chance to tell you."
But, when your coach tells you things, you need to listen. One coach refined his change-up with a few little nudges and it has now become one of his best pitches.

I would also agree that complacency will hinder your development. There is always more to learn, ways to improve, and someone waiting in the batter's box to take you for a ride. You have to be confident, yes...but also recognize that you have to be better than they are and you only achieve that when you keep pushing yourself.
Mine got to throw in the first intra-squad at his new university yesterday. Threw 2 innings of 3-up 3-down using 10 pitches with only 2 balls, and he said one of those was right where he wanted it about 6 inches off the plate and it may have gone as a strike with an umpire. I said "You gotta feel good about that for a first outing." He replied, "They haven't faced live pitching in a while. It's nothing to be excited about."

Having the opportunity to play baseball in college has been a great experience for my son and one he wouldn't trade for anything...although he did say recently that he wished they would get a day off soon...between practice, on-going rehab for him, running and weights, etc. it's a 7 day a week expectation.

Love, enjoy the HS senior year because it will be gone in a passing moment then welcome the college challenge :>
You'll love that, too!

One other thing is calling your own game. If one has never done this before and now given opportunities to do so, you do have to learn very quickly that you own your mistakes, not anyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Seriously, for any player who is a stud in HS, you get to the next level and you are not a stud anymore.

I have to share a line my college coach gave us I've never forgotten. "Remember that one pitcher or hitter that gave you trouble in high school? They're all here, every day, every game, all season. You need to improve every day."

I started 0-16 at the plate. When you're not a weekend starter frosh year that's a long time to go hitless and suffer. It was the first time in my life I needed help. Savvy pitchers exploited every little flaw I got away with in high school.

Being a lefty I also did some relief pitching. When the pitching coach said if that was my best move to first I must have been stolen on like crazy in high school. I smiled and responded, "What runners?" His response isn't fitting for this board. It would be a lot of *******. Needless to say I improved my move. It wasn't that practice. He kicked me out of the pen for the wise *** response.

TG,
That was funny.

Another good example of how things are different in college. Coach puts up with NO BS and you got to learn to deal with the BS.

BREAKING BALLS:

Just curious, have any of your son's had any issues transitioning from college to pro ball with the lower seams on the ball affecting their breaking stuff?

Are these things that you just started doing ?

In my opinion you should be already adjusting and all the other things mentioned so there should be little adjustment. The main think is the increased physical development and maturing.
Most people paid good money to have their players ready for the college level and it should come relatively easy.

TG,
I don't think so. He never mentioned it. His biggest challenge was learning to throw a true slider, his was a slurve (combo curve and slider) going into college. It wasn't his most comfortable pitch, but it was necessary to learn it properly.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Are these things that you just started doing ?

What is meant by that comment? Are you suggesting that by the time one reaches college or the next level they know it all and nothing left to learn?

Has your son found things relatively easy?

Here's the difference...the player that hit number four in HS is now batting number 9 in college.

Stay focused on preparation. Someone commented about waiting for the chance to prove yourself...I believe this is when preparedness meets opportunity.

I remember, though a long time ago, going from HS to College. I was classified as a "sleeper"...good control, okay fastball. My freshmen year our team had 4 All-American pitchers that threw smoke. Being an impressionable kid, I started trying to throw harder and nearly screwed up my mechanics and the control that got me there. Fortunately for me, a very wise pitching coach pulled me aside and reminded me that my most important pitch was a well located pitch and that more speed will come in due time. When I finished college was throwing 88 mph, not too bad for a lefty...at least in my day anyway.

Finally, a pitcher at any level must always be a student of game. Here's a great on-line video for progressing pitchers:

www.pitchingpractice.com

Be sure to check out the pitching drills on the site too. Remember what it means when preparedness meets opportunity?

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Most people paid good money to have their players ready for the college level and it should come relatively easy.

BHD, are you really serious about that statement?
C'mon, you have to be pulling our leg.
I know the parent of a young man currently pitching in a very top college program. Coming out of high school, he pitched for Team USA, pitched in the AFLAC game, pitched for a very top travel team, and was one of the top recruited pitchers that year. Had he been willing to forego college, he likely would have been picked in the first 100 in the draft.
That pitcher says the hardest things he has ever confronted were the adjustments and improvements necessitated to succeed in college ball and in the Cape.
You are pulling our leg, right?

BobbleheadDoll, I believe my son is ready to pitch at the college level. He has been working with a pitching coach to prepare him for college. He is very confident on the mound. He has the ability and size (6'5 250) to be very successful. Thanks for all the replies. I was just curious to know what some guys might have struggled with during that transition from high school.

My favorite is from TG:

"Remember that one pitcher or hitter that gave you trouble in high school? They're all here, every day, every game, all season. You need to improve every day."

That is so true.

quote:

Originally posted by lovethegame25:
BobbleheadDoll, I believe my son is ready to pitch at the college level. He has been working with a pitching coach to prepare him for college. He is very confident on the mound. He has the ability and size (6'5 250) to be very successful. Thanks for all the replies. I was just curious to know what some guys might have struggled with during that transition from high school.

love, I hope you are right about your son. If you are, he will be the significant exception to the norm.
Let me suggest to you one reason you might be mistaken and have overlooked.
My bet is that for the past 2-3 seasons, your son has had amazing success. He probably has improved tremendously and truly intimidates a lot of hitters in every game he pitches.
What he isn't prepared for is that in college, he won't intimidate any hitter. In fact, there will be some guys who are 21 years old, and they will look at intimidating him, and will likely have some element of success for awhile.
The other thing likely is your son will struggle some as a freshman. How he handles adversity, when he hasn't encountered it before, will make a major difference in how "ready" he is and how much success he will have and when, in college.
The mental side of college baseball is at least the equal of the physical side. I agree that many can adjust physically any more without too many changes.
The mental challenge and pressure of college baseball and what it brings isn't anything to underestimate. The game is so much faster and it is played by guys who are stronger and better than your son has seen in a year, let alone one game.

For mine the biggest adjustment has been the length of the season and the grind of pro ball. It is every five days, lousy travel, lousy food and great professional hitters. 150, 160 170 180 innings year after year they add up. That is what he has to spend the whole off season preparing for. The pitching adjustments are nothing compared to the grind.

Infielddad, I have sent you a PM

quote:

Originally posted by lovethegame25:
BobbleheadDoll, I believe my son is ready to pitch at the college level. He has been working with a pitching coach to prepare him for college. He is very confident on the mound. He has the ability and size (6'5 250) to be very successful. Thanks for all the replies. I was just curious to know what some guys might have struggled with during that transition from high school.

My favorite is from TG:

"Remember that one pitcher or hitter that gave you trouble in high school? They're all here, every day, every game, all season. You need to improve every day."

That is so true.

If a pitcher isn't ready to pitch at the college level, he's not asked to come play.

Mine pitched 70 give or take a few innings as a freshman, but that didn't mean he didn't have things to learn and needed to make adjustments to be successful.

Mine got drafted a few months ago, but that doesn't mean he is ready for MLB. There is a lot to learn at each level, whatever that may be.

quote:

Originally posted by lovethegame25:
Infielddad, I have sent you a PM

Nothing received???

TPM, I started this post because of something you had said in a previous post about your son can pitch inside and that was a big plus for him. I asked my son and he said he hates to pitch on the inside. This is why I started this post because that will be a challenge for him in college and something he will have to learn to do well. This is why I like this website, the info you receive is so valuable.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lovethegame25:
TPM, I started this post because of something you had said in a previous post about your son can pitch inside and that was a big plus for him. I asked my son and he said he hates to pitch on the inside. This is why I started this post because that will be a challenge for him in college and something he will have to learn to do well. This is why I like this website, the info you receive is so valuable.[/QUOTE*

Most pitchers don't like pitching inside.

But that's a good point, when you head to the next level, to be successful, you have to be able to learn and accept new things that will make you successful. That's called being coachable.

We thought (and he did too) that my son was a great pitcher when he went off to college with not much to learn. HA HA! Was he surprised!

If there wasn't any difference between moving from HS to college pitching as BHD suggests, then he spent a lot of time with his pitching coach for no reason! That's the silliest statement I ever heard.

It's the same for hitters, I have seen kids who hit a HR every at bat in HS not be able to get one over the fench. If there is no difference in the game from HS to college, why do coaches spend hours and hours working with their team?
Funny thing I have observed, most college players who find success the first year, find the slump as sophmores. I don't know why that is, I have my own theories.

You asked a good question and got some good answers. The HSBBW is a great place to get information. You just got to learn to read all of it and take what you feel is important and leave the rest behind.

When your son gets to the next level, whatever that may be, you'll understand.

"I asked my son and he said he hates to pitch on the inside."

He'll need to make this transition.

At the College and Pro level you need to be able to work the entire strike zone...a great fastball will carry you just so far. At the college and pro levels it takes really good stuff AND really good location to be a premier pitcher.

Many pitchers are afraid to attack the inside part of the plate. So, it's great that you identified this tendency now and can start working on it.

I've read that some college and pro teams are using a product called the Designated Hitter to help pitchers overcome their fear of pitching inside and teach them to attack the inside part of the plate.

High and tight, low and away.

High inside and low outside will get him good results.

High outside and low inside is good for the batter.

I can only relate as the parent of a hitter.
IMO, velocity and pitching inside don't make a huge difference in college because of the bats. They make a difference, I agree.
What really makes a difference, and why the level beyond high school is such a jump, is the ability to throw any pitch, in any situtation, with command.
When you combine that with someone who throws 90, and has a pitch that looks like it is 90 coming out of the hand, and it is 80 or lower, that pitcher gets a lot of respect, and a lot of outs.

quote:

Originally posted by lovethegame25:
I was curious to know what was the biggest challenge they faced on the mound when they reached the next level.

New defenses, new signs, keeping weight on, and earning the trust and respect of the upper classman on the mound.

quote:

Originally posted by lovethegame25:
TPM, I started this post because of something you had said in a previous post about your son can pitch inside and that was a big plus for him. I asked my son and he said he hates to pitch on the inside. This is why I started this post because that will be a challenge for him in college and something he will have to learn to do well. This is why I like this website, the info you receive is so valuable.

My son never even had a paid pitching coach or lesson, ever. He is currently a scholarship player at D1 in California, RHP, good size, smart, and very naturally athletic....I wonder if he will make it, this will be his first experience with a full time pitching coach, he is very coachable as he knows he has everything to learn at this point. He has been at it a couple of weeks, and is happy and positive so far, although tired.
His coaches have told him he will be playing in a summer league out of state next summer - does that mean he is likely to redshirt this season?
Don't know much about baseball, but am willing to learn if you all are up for educating me.

My son has always pitched inside because he says it's his plate, his ball and his catcher and if you're going to intrude on his space he's going to remind where yours begins. As a pitcher you have to establish that mindset or that career will be short lived.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
My son has always pitched inside because he says it's his plate, his ball and his catcher and if you're going to intrude on his space he's going to remind where yours begins. As a pitcher you have to establish that mindset or that career will be short lived.

IFD,
Pitcher needs to establish ownership of the zone so he can have that command. Top college hitters from what I have seen, who crowd the plate won't back off unless you make them (a good example is Matt Weiters, my son said he was tough in trying to get him off the plate). Then the pitcher has all sides of the plate to work. So not sure why you say pitching inside doesn't make a difference in college, yeah, it's harder to jam, but there is a reason why it's important. In HS, most batters stay back for fear of being plunked by a 90+ guy, in college the top guys are not afraid. They will take the walk with a hit and the pitcher doesn't want to give up a free pass. Pitching inside is important in college, but it is something that with confidance and time a pitcher can learn if he is willing.

Deception is needed to be an effective pitcher. Each pitch coming out of the pitcher's hand needs to look the same whether it's a CU, CB, FB, etc and place it where you want isn't any easy task facing batters who know what to look for. And changing speeds of course is most important. In HS, most batters don't realize the difference, at the next level the good batters can see it right away. In pro ball you won't make it if you can't fool the batter, or most anyway. Mine had good stuff going into college, but he needed to make changes to his arm slot so each pitch appeared the same, that took a while, quite a while to work on. Pitchers need to keep reinventing themselves to be effective, whether that's learning a new pitch, increasing velocity or learning to pitch inside. The freshman pitcher who enters college should not be the same junior,senior pitcher. Do you all think that Andrew Miller was the same pitcher as a freshman than as a junior?

BTW,you don't have to be a pro prospect to be a good college pitcher.

That's why anyone who says there is no difference in pitching between college and HS is, IMO, wrong.

No matter what level, the first time a player/pitcher reaches that level he lacks experience at that level.

Sometimes this will require learning and changing things. Sometimes it will just take getting comfortable in the new environment. But it doesn’t matter if it is high school, college or pro, those who make it are the ones who continue to learn and get better. Because at each level the better competition is part of that new environment. But there is much more than that… each level, each step, can be a big change in life style. Team mates change along with the opponents. Coaches change, fans change, pressure changes, etc. And maybe most important is the ability to handle the adversity that comes with moving to a higher level, because no one is immune to that.

Pitchers/players who are being recruited heavily by DI colleges are usually ready when it comes to ability. The college coaches think so anyway, or they wouldn’t be recruiting that player so hard. Sometimes it all boils down to how quickly the player/pitcher becomes mentally ready. We all know how important the mental aspect of baseball is and it gets tested at every level.

IMO there is a lot of good experience giving good information here. But every kid is different, some will be more ready than others, some might take more time, but all of them have to understand they should not be overly satisfied with where they’re at right now!

I understand what TPM is saying about Andrew Miller, but from an ability stand point I think there are better examples. At least from a professional perspective. Miller would have been a 1st round, top 10 draft pick out of high school except for serious commitment to college that had over 3 million dollar demand attached to it. Even then scouting departments weren’t absolutely certain he would have signed out of high school.

From a pro “ability” or value perspective, he didn’t really improve that much, so yes I think he was “basically” the same pitcher. But TPM is right in the fact that he did become a better and more experienced pitcher in three years of college. Maybe he is a good example of how even a first round talent can learn and improve. That’s what players are supposed to do if they want to keep moving up the ladder.

I can understand what BHD is saying. There was no statement that success is exactly the same or there’s nothing to learn. But really it is a pitcher, a hitter, a catcher and there is a big advantage to those who have played at a high level before they set foot on a college field. While the hitters might be better 1 through 9 at each level, there are high school pitchers that have faced hitters every bit as good as college top hitters. Brian McCann, Jeff Francour, David Wright, BJ Upton, Carl Crawford, Lastings Milledge, Prince Fielder, etc. didn’t hit in college. If a pitcher has an opportunity to throw against teams like East Cobb, Midland, NorCal, etc. and can get the job done, he will probably be less likely to feel out of place facing college lineups. Pitching is pitching at every level, competition is the thing that changes.