Pitching Change

Originally Posted by NewUmpire:

…If yes, when the starting pitcher returns after 3rd throw, then he burns his re-entry (starting pitcher can return to mound 1 time - as long as he did not leave the game)….

 

I’m not sure where you got that the starting pitcher can only return to the mound 1 time. Can you cite the rule? Check 3-1-2.

When you say the mound hes on the bump? or 2nd basemen is standing on rubber looking to all like he the next pitcher?

The return once. Was once per inning.  And the 2nd baseman was pitching from the rubber

F4 does not become F1 until he's announced or the ball becomes live.

 

Still, if the umpire sees it, he should stop it.

This was for FED in the OP.  Isn't there a different result under another rule set?  I'm thinking I had seen that before, but I get these things confused easily.  Maybe NCAA?

 

I'm not an umpire, but...

 

This seems to stem from the unreported substitute rule. noumpere is correct. Here is the FED rule (bold underlined print is mine):

 

3-1-1

...Should there be no announcement of substitutions. a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:

a. a runner takes the place of a runner he has replaced,

b. a pitcher takes his place on the pitcher's plate,

c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder he has replaced, or

d. a batter takes his place in the batter's box.

 

Thus, no pitching change has been made.

 

OBR and NCAA do not have the live ball requirement, except for fielders.

 

OBR:

3.08a

...If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as having entered the game when—

(1) If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;

(2) If a batter, he takes his place in the batter’s box;

(3) If a fielder, he reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder he has replaced, and play commences;

(4) If a runner, he takes the place of the runner he has replaced.

 

NCAA:

5-5-g

...Should there be no announcement of substitution, the substitute becomes a legal player when:

(1) A runner takes the place of another base runner;

(2) A pitcher engages the pitcher’s rubber;

(3) A fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder being replaced and play commences; or

(4) A batter enters the batter’s box.

 

So in the original example, the second baseman would become the new pitcher under these rules. Many summer leagues use modified OBR rules, so technically this could happen in these leagues as well. But if you read umpire forums on this site and others, there have been lengthy discussions on this topic. Many veteran umpires essentially said that for pro or college, yes, you should enforce the rule (the players should know better at these levels), but for younger players this is "grabbing the messy end of the stick". One of the umpires said that if the opposing coach insists that a pitching change has been made, his response would be something like "sorry coach, I was getting a drink of water and didn't see it".

 

The FED rule concerning a pitcher returning to the mound is 3-1-2:

...A player may be removed as pitcher and returned as pitcher only once per inning, provided the return as pitcher does not violate either the pitching, substitution or charged conference rule...

 

It makes no difference whether the pitcher is a starter or not. A starting pitcher must face at least one batter in the game, but that wouldn't apply in the situation the OP listed.

Lets change the scenario a little.  Playoff series - Top of 5th inning, home team coach reports to plate umpire that 6 for 12 and 6 is going to the mound.  Plate umpire records and notifies visiting coach of change.  After 5 warm-up pitches, home coach returns and states that 6 can not pitch because of 2 appearances the previous day.  Does he have to face a batter? 

As an umpire, I have no idea how many appearances the new F1 has had.  That is something the coach needs to take up with the league.  Allow F1 to pitch.

Case 6-6-1B would imply (or I infer from it) that S1 can be removed without penalty.

 

 

I seem to recall reading on some forum or another that (the official) LL want this rule enforced.  I don't work it, so I don't know for sure.

I don't coach in Little League, so I don't know exactly how LL handles this. Moving into the "I've seen posted" category, I have seen on umpire forums that LL now specifies that a pitching change is not official until the pitcher throws an actual pitch after the ball is put in play. This was instituted after LL went with strict pitch count limits. LL didn't want a team inadvertently trying to put a pitcher on the mound who was illegal due to his pitch count in a previous game, and then being locked into using him even if the mistake was discovered prior to the first pitch of the inning.

 

But again, the youngest age group I've ever coached is 14U (and I mostly do 16U or 18U), so I don't know for certain, and have never had much of a reason to find out for sure.