Pitching Change

The umpire got it right.

What you have here is an unannounced substitution that became official when #11 took his place on the pitcher's plate.

Yes, there is a rule stating that the pitcher in the lineup is required to face at least one batter. The penalty for violating that rule is that the pitcher in the lineup cannot return to pitch, though he may play another position.

Swampboy posted:

The umpire got it right.

What you have here is an unannounced substitution that became official when #11 took his place on the pitcher's plate.

Yes, there is a rule stating that the pitcher in the lineup is required to face at least one batter. The penalty for violating that rule is that the pitcher in the lineup cannot return to pitch, though he may play another position.

This is not totally correct.  

5.10 (f ) (3.05(a)) The pitcher named in the batting order handed the umpire-in-chief, as provided in Rules 4.02 (a) and 4.02 (b) (Rules 4.01(a) and 4.01(b)), shall pitch to the first batter or any substitute batter until such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, incapacitates him from pitching.

5.10 (h) (3.05(c)) If an improper substitution is made for the pitcher, the umpire shall direct the proper pitcher to return to the game until the provisions of this rule are fulfilled.

Rule 5.10 (h) Comment (Rule 3.05(c) Comment): If a manager attempts to remove a pitcher in violation of Rule 5.10(h) (Rule 3.05(c)) the umpire shall notify the manager of the offending
club that it cannot be done.

umpire27 posted:

Swampboy posted:

The umpire got it right.

What you have here is an unannounced substitution that became official when #11 took his place on the pitcher's plate.

Yes, there is a rule stating that the pitcher in the lineup is required to face at least one batter. The penalty for violating that rule is that the pitcher in the lineup cannot return to pitch, though he may play another position.

This is not totally correct.  

5.10 (f ) (3.05(a)) The pitcher named in the batting order handed the umpire-in-chief, as provided in Rules 4.02 (a) and 4.02 (b) (Rules 4.01(a) and 4.01(b)), shall pitch to the first batter or any substitute batter until such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, incapacitates him from pitching.

5.10 (h) (3.05(c)) If an improper substitution is made for the pitcher, the umpire shall direct the proper pitcher to return to the game until the provisions of this rule are fulfilled.

Rule 5.10 (h) Comment (Rule 3.05(c) Comment): If a manager attempts to remove a pitcher in violation of Rule 5.10(h) (Rule 3.05(c)) the umpire shall notify the manager of the offending
club that it cannot be done.

Even though I was referring to Fed rules and you were using OBR, the outcome is the same. When you have an unannounced substitution that isn't discovered until after the substitute throws the first pitch, neither rule set would remove that pitcher, even if it was an illegal substitution.

Here's the relevant note from OBR (my Italics):

Swampboy posted:

umpire27 posted:

Swampboy posted:

The umpire got it right.

What you have here is an unannounced substitution that became official when #11 took his place on the pitcher's plate.

Yes, there is a rule stating that the pitcher in the lineup is required to face at least one batter. The penalty for violating that rule is that the pitcher in the lineup cannot return to pitch, though he may play another position.

This is not totally correct.  

5.10 (f ) (3.05(a)) The pitcher named in the batting order handed the umpire-in-chief, as provided in Rules 4.02 (a) and 4.02 (b) (Rules 4.01(a) and 4.01(b)), shall pitch to the first batter or any substitute batter until such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, incapacitates him from pitching.

5.10 (h) (3.05(c)) If an improper substitution is made for the pitcher, the umpire shall direct the proper pitcher to return to the game until the provisions of this rule are fulfilled.

Rule 5.10 (h) Comment (Rule 3.05(c) Comment): If a manager attempts to remove a pitcher in violation of Rule 5.10(h) (Rule 3.05(c)) the umpire shall notify the manager of the offending
club that it cannot be done.

Even though I was referring to Fed rules and you were using OBR, the outcome is the same. When you have an unannounced substitution that isn't discovered until after the substitute throws the first pitch, neither rule set would remove that pitcher, even if it was an illegal substitution.

Here's the relevant note from OBR (my Italics):

Rule 5.10(h) Comment (Rule 3.05(c) Comment): If a manager attempts to remove a pitcher in violation of Rule 5.10(h) (Rule 3.05(c)) the umpire shall notify the manager of the offending club that it cannot be done. If, by chance, the umpire-in-chief has, through oversight, announced the incoming improper pitcher, he should still correct the situation before the improper pitcher pitches. Once the improper pitcher delivers a pitch he becomes the proper pitcher.

Everything you said is true, but in your previous post, you said "The penalty for violating that rule is that the pitcher in the lineup cannot return to pitch, though he may play another position."  That really isn't the penalty, but it is what happens when the umpire erroneously allows a substitute to enter. I just wanted to clarify that the umpire should not have allowed it.

Umpire27,

I acknowledge and accept your point that the umpire could have prevented this situation by noticing the unannounced substitution before a pitch was thrown (which would have mattered in OBR, but not Federation). But the question here was what to do in situations where it wasn't discovered until he had thrown a pitch.

As to whether it's a penalty, it sounds strange to call it that because it sure doesn't seem like much of a penalty, but that's the way the Fed rule book describes it in 3-1-1:

"PENALTY: If the starting pitcher does not face one better, he may play another position, but not return to pitch."

(It is also strange that it says "return" to pitch when he hasn't pitched at all, but that's how they wrote it.)

Also, in defense of the umpire, in a high school, rec, or travel league game where I don't know any of the players, I doubt I would notice that the number of the starting pitcher throwing warm up pitches in the first inning wasn't the same as the number of the pitcher against the lineup card in my pocket. It's just not a situation I'm on guard to look for. So I'm not inclined to find much fault with him for not noticing it, and he resolved it correctly when it was discovered.

Swampboy posted:

Umpire27,

I acknowledge and accept your point that the umpire could have prevented this situation by noticing the unannounced substitution before a pitch was thrown (which would have mattered in OBR, but not Federation). But the question here was what to do in situations where it wasn't discovered until he had thrown a pitch.

As to whether it's a penalty, it sounds strange to call it that because it sure doesn't seem like much of a penalty, but that's the way the Fed rule book describes it in 3-1-1:

"PENALTY: If the starting pitcher does not face one better, he may play another position, but not return to pitch."

(It is also strange that it says "return" to pitch when he hasn't pitched at all, but that's how they wrote it.)

Also, in defense of the umpire, in a high school, rec, or travel league game where I don't know any of the players, I doubt I would notice that the number of the starting pitcher throwing warm up pitches in the first inning wasn't the same as the number of the pitcher against the lineup card in my pocket. It's just not a situation I'm on guard to look for. So I'm not inclined to find much fault with him for not noticing it, and he resolved it correctly when it was discovered.

I agree with everything you say.  However, the OP said one pitch had been thrown.  At that point a competent umpire would know that the pitcher needs to finish pitching to the batter and could not be replaced.