Pitching clip....

NYdad-



Too much information missing. This clip had duplicate frames, subsequently leaving out critical frames. It would be very hard for someone to make an accurate analysis for you. However, there are some general areas for the local guru's to critique for you.

Is anybody gonna even attempt to comment this? I'm commenting just to put it at the top so people look at it.

A few critiques:

1. I think the pitching hand is late out of the glove and starting down. Consequently, it is late getting up into power position.

2. The pitcher compensates for his arm being late (behind) by pulling his head (leaning towards third base).

3. Another telltale sign is the fall over towards third, instead of continuing on straight towards home.

Suggestions:

Work on breaking the hands earlier and getting the arm into synch with the leg action. Work on keeping his head straighter and shoulders closer to level (there will be some slant but shouldn't be nearly as much). Shoot the hand more out front for release. Land and follow through towards home.

quote:

1. I think the pitching hand is late out of the glove and starting down. Consequently, it is late getting up into power position.

MildoDad, you make some good points. IMO he should break the hands later and down by his belt buckle. So as his leg is coming down so are his hands and that will help get his arms and legs in synch. When breaking you're hands around you're belt buckle you are in a better position to have a nice arm swing out of the glove.

While pausing the video when his arm is in the high cocked position, his foot had just landed so he's allright there. If a pitchers arm is late getting up to the high cocked position he would land before his arm made it up to the high cocked position. You need to have you're foot land and the arm in the high cocked positon at the SAME time. And that is good timing. But one thing I did notice his elbow might be just a little too low while at the high cocked position.

Midlo Dad i think is right, he's not breaking his hands early enough, so in turn, if you look at it closely, you can kind of see his arm wrap back towards his ear and neck, one other thing, be careful of rocking back too much in the balance as can also lead to the wraping of arm. And lastly glove action could be a somewhat better IMO

Thanks for responses thus far...comments noted. Still hoping others will chime in as well... Trying to determine whether there are any major mechanical flaws that need immediate attention that may hinder his ability to pitch at the next level (college).

Cap_n
Too much information missing. This clip had duplicate frames, subsequently leaving out critical frames.

Original video was taken with D8 cam in SP mode...unless something occurs when transferring video from cam to comp which converts to mpeg file...Not a tech so don't really know why that would be the case.

Just wondering..wheres he been clocked at if he has?

quote:

Original video was taken with D8 cam in SP mode...unless something occurs when transferring video from cam to comp which converts to mpeg file...Not a tech so don't really know why that would be the case.

The best way I know to capture all frames @ 30fps, resulting in clean clear clips is to use a digital camera with an analog video output to an analog video input of an analog video capture card. The save and output file of the capture card program should be an avi or gif. This is just my opinion based on my current set up vs. most all other clips that people send me....this doesn’t mean there aren't other possibilities.

The entire motion is rushed. The hips lead too far too early. Causing the arm to drag. The whole back side is rushing itself due to not keeping the weight back long enough. This puts extra strain on the shoulder and elbow. Put emphasis on staying back and not rushing. Going faster in you motion does not mean throwing harder. I think everything else already mentioned (except the late break of the hands) is a result of the fact the weight has already been transfered too early.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
The entire motion is rushed. The hips lead too far too early. Causing the arm to drag. The whole back side is rushing itself due to not keeping the weight back long enough. This puts extra strain on the shoulder and elbow. Put emphasis on staying back and not rushing. Going faster in you motion does not mean throwing harder. I think everything else already mentioned (except the late break of the hands) is a result of the fact the weight has already been transfered too early.

I completely disagree. I don't see any significant signs of rushing.

The hips have to lead for a pitcher to generate any significant power (and his hips seem to rotate well ahead of his shoulders).

Some things I see...

1. Foot kicks out, which can cause balance problems. I would prefer if the foot stayed under the knee.

2. I don't like how he pushes off against his glove-side leg.

Just looking at this angle, I would have his stride leg lift and plant looked at. It looks to me as if he might be casting his stride foot out much further than he needs to and pushing his upper body back some. It appears to me that his hips are opening before his stride leg plants also. I don't see much energy generated in his upper body with this view. I say again have someone check his stride. In addition to what has allready been mentioned look at the pivot toe drag. From this angle it looks like he may be close to overstriding.
It does not look like he is to far off from this clip just needs some fine tuning.

Additional commments appreciated...

CoachO, I went back and stopped the clip at foot plant to check and his hips do not appear to be open at plant...As far as toe drag, is this something to be concerned with?

Painguy - can u expand on this: I don't like how he pushes off against his glove-side leg.

Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachO:
It appears to me that his hips are opening before his stride leg plants also.

His hips have to open for him to plant his glove side foot with the toe facing the target. It's physically impossible to land with the glove-side foot pointing at the target without opening the hips.

You CAN open the hips too soon, but I don't see any signs of this. He does a good job of striding sideways to the target and then rotating his foot at the last second.

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
Painguy - can u expand on this: I don't like how he pushes off against his glove-side leg.

Watch how he lands with his knee bent 100 or so degrees and then straightens his leg as his shoulders come around. Other guys do this, but later on in their motions.

This CAN give a guy a velocity boost, but might also contribute to elbow and shoulder problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
1. I think the pitching hand is late out of the glove and starting down. Consequently, it is late getting up into power position.

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by TPBulldogs35:
Just wondering..wheres he been clocked at if he has?

I'd be willing to bet he's above average.

Thanks for explanation.....are you suggesting he maintain the flexed leg?

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
As far as toe drag, is this something to be concerned with?

I don't think this is a big deal.

If you look at the pros, some drag their toes and others don't.

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
Thanks for explanation.....are you suggesting he maintain the flexed leg?

Yes.

I believe that it improves the ability of the body to absorb the shock of the delivery if the knee stays flexed.

As far as breaking late....I don't know if it's so much breaking late as it may be breaking high...one of the things we are going to work on is bringing his hands down with his knee and break around the belly area and see what affect it has on his arm action...
Feel free to chime in. Thanks.

Had to leave for awhile and just got back. I tried a few times to pull up the clip from AOL without success.
I want to add a little about the toe drag. The drag can be an indication of over striding. As a general rule no more than a six inch drag is allowable and it looks from this angle that he may be there.
You would still be better served by finding a reliable pitching instructor that can actually evaluate him. Good luck in providing him with the right instruction.

As stated earlier, his leg "kick" rather than lift may cause balance problems. Additionally, the space and positioning of his glove at break (looks quite far from body and closer to throwing shoulder, not centered) contribute to balance issues as well. I think the combination of these cause this pitcher to fall off to his right rather than finish in a better position. Keeping things a little "tighter" may help in velocity and accuracy.

He could get his velocity up with some good adjustments.

- Equal and opposite! See how the ball drops down and around to get to the release point. His arms need to be equal and opposite. Also taking the ball out with the hands as opposed to seperating with the elbows. Which will help on the equal and opposite issue.

- no follow through! He is not throwing all the way though. He is giving up right a the release point and pretty much standing up when he should be going forward. My son had the same problems for a long time! Just got over this one....

- maybe a bit longer stride would help remedy the post above.

Looks like a big lefty!

The first thing noticed is during his release point and follow through he is staying upright. This is usually due to tight hip flexors and mechanics. This will increase the stress on shoulder which leads to more on elbow.
A great site to look at is www.ASMI.org. They specialize in the biomechanics of pitchers. I use their staff for the pitchers I work when I need another opinion.

D.Terry,M.S.



D.Terry,M.S.

quote:

Originally posted by D. Terry,M.S.:
The first thing noticed is during his release point and follow through he is staying upright. This is usually due to tight hip flexors and mechanics. This will increase the stress on shoulder which leads to more on elbow.

I think this is a myth.

What evidence do you have that leaning forward through the release point is the right thing to do?

Not every pitcher finishes leaning forward and some that do, like Mark Prior, have constant problems with injury. Also, the body tends to rotate more efficiently when the torso is upright. Trying to rotate while also leaning forward can cause lower back problems.

The pitcher in the clip above finishes leaning forward approximately 45 degrees, which is about the same as Greg Maddux and Roger Clemens (and both of them have had great careers and have been more injury-free than average).

quote:

I think this is a myth.

What evidence do you have that leaning forward through the release point is the right thing to do?

Not every pitcher finishes leaning forward and some that do, like Mark Prior, have constant problems with injury. Also, the body tends to rotate more efficiently when the torso is upright. Trying to rotate while also leaning forward can cause lower back problems.

The pitcher in the clip above finishes leaning forward approximately 45 degrees, which is about the same as Greg Maddux and Roger Clemens (and both of them have had great careers and have been more injury-free than average).

Myth?

The mechanics I spoke of are taught to lots of pitchers to try and increase the velocity of their pitches. I spoke of not only his finish but also of the release point. This is an area where he could gain more upper torso involvemt by having some more flexion in his delivery.

You are comparing a teenager to Hall of Fame players. The players have not been injury free based on just there mechanics alone.

This was my observation and opinion. To make a decision based on this message board will not improve the player. He needs onsite instruction with a quality instructor.

My biggest problem is with your statement that not leaning farther forward could lead to shoulder and/or elbow problems. I have never seen anything that backs this statement up.

Perhaps he could gain more velocity by leaning forward, but I also believe that doing so would increase the level of strain on his lower back.

I'm fine arguing whether it's more important to lean forward and therefore release the ball closer to plate or to not lean as far forward and therefore raise the release point. However, I don't think you should claim that a pitcher increases their risk of injurying their shoulder or elbow if they don't lean forward (unless you have solid evidence).

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
As far as breaking late....I don't know if it's so much breaking late as it may be breaking high...one of the things we are going to work on is bringing his hands down with his knee and break around the belly area and see what affect it has on his arm action...
Feel free to chime in. Thanks.

My son pitches much better if he breaks his hands at his belt than if he breaks his hands the letters.

In his case, breaking his hands lower changes his arm action and reduces the temptation for him to short-arm the ball (among other things).

Painguy,

I am curious to know your experience with pitchers and the biomechanics of pitching?

D.Terry

quote:

Originally posted by D. Terry,M.S.:
Painguy, I am curious to know your experience with pitchers and the biomechanics of pitching? D.Terry

I have been my son's pitching coach since he was 8 (he's 11 now). I am also the pitching coach for the pitchers on both of his teams.

I have spent the past year and a half reading every technical article I can find about the biomechanics of pitching.

I don't know about the science of it, but like Painguy I have also noticed that if the hands break at the chest, the pitcher tends to throw in a "bow and arrow" motion instead of a smoother, "down, back and up" motion. (I think of Russ Ortiz as a bad example, a "bow and arrow" guy.)

One thing I have found useful is to ask a young pitcher to imagine that his kick leg is attached to his throwing hand by a rope passing through a pulley suspended overhead. The hand goes down as the knee comes up, then the hand goes up (in the back) as the leg heads down to land. Now you are lined up to the plate in power position, ready to fire.

The "bow and arrow" approach, in my observation, is much tougher on the elbow because the arm tends to get jerked back and forth quite a bit more.

In this clip, the appearance is that this player is an outfielder throwing from the mound as if he were a pitcher.

The back leg kick seems to be an attempt to emulate the player in the icon clip.

His release point is very high and his follow through drags his weight across his body.

I would have him hold his hands closer to his chest. His mechanics are not fluid and the indication would be wildness or an inability to hit spots.

Hands in, slower motion, more relaxed follow through and lose that back leg kick in favor of assuming a position that would allow him to handle a come backer.

It may just be the clip or the angle, but in my view he needs to pitch more and throw less.