I have an observation to post, and would like to know if my assumption is correct.

At http://www.pitchingmachinepro....hine-Speeds-s/31.htm they state that you should us a D/SxT formula to calculate the equivalent pitch speed.

Everywhere I look it is basically the same, they use 60 ft in the equation for the high school formula. Knowing that the distance from the pitching rubber to home plate is 60' 6", the FBI would call that a clue.

However here is where I question the formula. The pitcher does not throw the ball from the rubber, by the time the ball is released the ball is about 10 feet in front of the rubber.

So should the formula not be 50/40x56= for a 70 mph equivalent? For a pitching machine set up 40 feet away launching balls at 56 mph. Or should we stick with the original 60/40x56= 84 mph?

Just thinking here. Any math majors fell free to help me out.
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by Old School79:
Pitching machines s**k, for anything other than working on bunting, or curve ball movement.


You must not be using your pitching machines correctly. They are an extremely valuable tool for practicing hitting mechanics. Just like a tee, or soft toss, or many other drills for that matter.

First, pitching machines are accurate and hitters can get quality reps. A coach throwing batting practice might only throw strikes 40% of the time, while a pitching machine can throw them 95% of the time.

Second, they can be moved! You can work on low, high, inside, or outside pitches.

The reaction time for a pitching machine can be similar to that of a real pitcher.

If you're using your machine for only bunting, then you're defeating it's purpose.
quote:
A coach throwing batting practice might only throw strikes 40% of the time, while a pitching machine can throw them 95% of the time.


No wonder you use a machine, if thats the percentage of strikes you throw Big Grin
IMHO,,,,,Any good hitting coach, should be able to throw 70-90% strikes, with the ability to hit spots, and movement. No need to stop a session to adjust a machine. If your hitting coach has to use a machine, you might want to find a new one Wink

Juggs machines are the worst. No timing mechanism for hitters, to load, stride/stretch. So you basically create a "one piece" swing for your student.
quote:
Originally posted by Old School79:
quote:
A coach throwing batting practice might only throw strikes 40% of the time, while a pitching machine can throw them 95% of the time.


Any good hitting coach, should be able to throw 70-90% strikes, with the ability to hit spots, and movement. .



12 batters 20 pitches each 2-3 rounds? 700 pitches 1 or 2 or 3 times a week? have fun
I throw on average 3 buckets, figure 40 to a bucket so 120 4 days a week to one hitter. That's 480 spread over 4 days and by the last day my arm is ready to fall off. No thanks.



Of course I'm old and don't throw but about 85 now... Wink
That's the problem with coaches throwing pitches. I've seen it happen way too often, a coach throws to 15 batters 20 or 30 pitches a round. By the time rounds 2 or 3 come around, the coach can't throw a quality pitch and the kids trying to swing the bat suffer because they're forced to whiff at garbage pitches.

We built our own machine here at our facility.

We don't have to stop a session to change pitch location. You want 5 pitches on the outside corner? Then spin the machine a little bit to the outside. Inside corner, opposite way. High pitches? Tap the machine a couple times to tilt it upwards. And the opposite for low.

No, you are wrong as to creating a one piece swing. You can still load and stride off of a pitching machine.

They are a valuable tool when used properly.

90% strikes with the ability to hit spots and move the ball? Give me a break. A hitting coach can't do that.

To think that pitching machines are only valuable for bunting is completely ridiculous.

Use the machine correctly and you will find that it serves its purpose quite well.
quote:
Originally posted by brushout:
As usual here, a lot of useless chatter and nothing even remotely related to the issue at hand.


My apologies. As far as distance is concerned, no. You shouldn't have to subtract because the ball is still moving at a about the same speed the whole way through the pitch, and that includes while it's in his hand.

Can you sort of understand the way I see it? Even though it hasn't left the pitchers hand, he is still applying the acceleration necessary to get the ball to the plate.

It's not like the ball is initially beginning to accelerate at 50 feet. It's still accelerating at 60'6", it's just that the ball is coupled with his hand/arm that is supplying the acceleration.
i have a degree in research and statistics and the release point for most majjor league and high school pitchers is somewhere between 55 and 52 feet from home plate at an angle originating 3 to 4 feet on the throwing arm side from parallel (a straight line running from the pitcher's foot plant to the back of home plate. the problem is you can't turn the pitching machine up to game speed because it breaks down timing, all good hitters start their swing well before release.

i actually invented a pitching machine attachment to address this issue but ran out of money before finishing the modifications to make it profitable.
@ saturdayhitting:
My apologies. As far as distance is concerned, no. You shouldn't have to subtract because the ball is still moving at a about the same speed the whole way through the pitch, and that includes while it's in his hand.

Thanks, I never thought of that! Very good point. Now that is why I come her to ask these questions. It is too bad that too many people on here just want to criticize and be a pain in the ***.

After reading your post, I do believe my theory is flawed.

Again, Thank you
quote:
Originally posted by brushout:
@ saturdayhitting:
My apologies. As far as distance is concerned, no. You shouldn't have to subtract because the ball is still moving at a about the same speed the whole way through the pitch, and that includes while it's in his hand.

Thanks, I never thought of that! Very good point. Now that is why I come her to ask these questions. It is too bad that too many people on here just want to criticize and be a pain in the ***.

After reading your post, I do believe my theory is flawed.

Again, Thank you


You're welcome! Everyone is going to carry a different opinion on the subject, but with my knowledge of physics I decided that was the most reasonable answer possible.

And again, I agree there is a lot of useless banter. I was just incredibly shocked when the first reply to your post was along the lines of "who cares, pitching machines suck."

I wish you luck in the future!
Pitchers generally release 70 - 90% of their body length and that is around 55 feet to set the machine if working game release distances.

Reaction times would vary by distance, of course, if you have a machine at 50 feet reaction time velocity is approximately the speed it throws/.90 to equate 55 ft release points.
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa:
Pitchers generally release 70 - 90% of their body length and that is around 55 feet to set the machine if working game release distances.

Reaction times would vary by distance, of course, if you have a machine at 50 feet reaction time velocity is approximately the speed it throws/.90 to equate 55 ft release points.


Doesn't the machine have to be closer to account for the length of the pitcher's arms?
quote:
I was just incredibly shocked when the first reply to your post was along the lines of "who cares, pitching machines suck."


Really, you were, why? Because, I knocked pitching machines? You with your great history of 18 posts. Did you play pro ball? How many of your students have played at the D1 level, or Pro ball? Big Grin

Your story, is touching, but nothing else.
Your kids are now the age, so that you can "daddy ball it". So your way is the correct way. Good luck with that.
Pitching machines are the Devil. If you have to hire someone to come throw live arm bp do it. Take the money you would have spent on the machine and hire some former players to come throw bp if you can not. Hit live off your pitchers as much as possible. Have your coaches throw bp and throw it yourself. One of the most critical components of hitting is the timing process. Pitching machines kill the timing process and create bad habits.

Watch a college game. Where do they take bp from on the field? How far are the coaches from the players in the cage when they hit? How far are the coaches from the hitters when they hit on the field? They are working on timing and the stroke. The distance doesn't matter. The coach is throwing slower from a shorter distance. And there is nothing wrong with mixing in some balls during bp. Pitching machines throw strike after strike if set up properly. They throw the same speed. They throw to almost the same location pitch after pitch. They offer no realistic timing sequence for the hitter.

They screw up hitters big time. For goodness sake get rid of the pitching machines. Watch a ML hitting workout. Watch a college hitting work out. There are no pitching machines to be found. I wonder why? You will see hitters completely change their approach and timing in order to adjust to the machine to have success. When do I load? And the coach is just dropping balls in a tube and out pops the baseball. From the same location every time. When does the hitter start the timing process? How is it anything like reality for the hitter? Live arm bp. Hitting live off your pitchers. Scrap the pitching machine and help your hitters out. They will thank you for it.
There is almost no logic whatsoever behind your argument. You believe pitching machines are the devil because they "aren't live pitching." Tees and soft-toss aren't live pitching either? Does that make them bad for my hitters to be practicing on?

What kind machines have you used? There's no timing mechanism? Really? A person good at feeding balls into a machine can create the same timing mechanism that a pitcher does.

I'm baffled that you could hate such a useful tool.

Seems like you have some sort of personal vendetta for all pitching machines. The amount of reps you can get using a machine can't even compare to someone throwing BP.

Major league ball players hit off pitching machines. Sure, they also hit live pitching before games. It truly is sad, however, that you cannot see how valuable a pitching machine is.
@Coach_May couldn't agree more. The only useful work I have ever gotten out of working off a pitching machine is doing curveball work. I think they are the hack attack machines with the 3 wheels, but anytime I hit off an iron mike machine its a waste of time.

I always like to have a live arm I can time up whether it is off a bp thrower or front toss, mainly because I am trying to work on getting my best swing off or my A swing or however you want to phrase it. For me, with most pitching machines it just seems like the ball comes out of a black hole at about 90 mph and its more difficult to time up than a real pitcher.
Coach May just preached the gospel. The only real use pitching machines have are to tilt them all the way up and shoot flyballs to outfielders if all the fungo bats break.

Saturday hitting please explain how a pitching machine when fed correctly can create the same timing as live arm? It is impossible to do that and most good hitters I've seen get in there with a machine end up having their front foot going up and down like they are trying to put out a fire because they are trying to time the pitch.

What cracks me up are the guys who go through a pitching motion in order to drop the ball into the machine. Yet when they get to the "release point" it takes them several seconds to get the ball in the chute. It's just not realistic.

As for your example on soft toss and tee work - these are things that should be done although there isn't a live arm. Tee and toss are there to work on the actual swing - not timing. You're only working on part / half of the product (the swing) by doing these types of drills. Hitting off a live arm is there to work on the whole product - timing and the swing mechanics. You don't go to live arm to learn how to hit - that is the final step in the process of learning how to hit. Drills like toss and tees are where you learn to hit.
Yep, put me in the Devil category too. I use machine for bunting, curve balls (especially for kids who are about 13 and starting to see some curves.. A manager can run balls thru it for some fly balls over the OF head... And we do a drill I call matchstick where you imagine you had a matchstick sticking out of your bellybutton, the machine throws pitches past you and you try to get as close to the ball without swinging to simulate the inside pitch and letting it pass under your hands...

AD asked me a few years ago how long my machines would last and I told him forever as little use as they get

You could take away my machine and I'd shrug my shoulders but you'd have to pry my tees out of my cold, dead... Isn't that how the saying goes
I will never use a machine during my hitting lessons and instruction. For all of the reasons posted already.

I know the arguement of seeing more stikes from a pitching machine...but I don't care and don't buy it. From an instruction point of view, I could tell alot from the way a player takes a pitch anyways, so seeing live pitching and seeing how the player reacts with his load, balance and hands to a ball out of the zone is worth something to my instruction.
quote:
Originally posted by saturdayhitting:
There is almost no logic whatsoever behind your argument. You believe pitching machines are the devil because they "aren't live pitching." Tees and soft-toss aren't live pitching either? Does that make them bad for my hitters to be practicing on?

What kind machines have you used? There's no timing mechanism? Really? A person good at feeding balls into a machine can create the same timing mechanism that a pitcher does.

I'm baffled that you could hate such a useful tool.

Seems like you have some sort of personal vendetta for all pitching machines. The amount of reps you can get using a machine can't even compare to someone throwing BP.

Major league ball players hit off pitching machines. Sure, they also hit live pitching before games. It truly is sad, however, that you cannot see how valuable a pitching machine is.

Tees aren't pitching at all - apples and anvils.

Yes, soft toss is "live". Think about it.

You have some evidence of ML hitters using pitching machines when there is an alternative?
quote:
Originally posted by saturdayhitting:
Many Major League Ball clubs have BATA pitching machines.

A pitching machine is a tool to be used correctly. Not a crutch.
That's not evidence, that's a claim. It surely isn't evidence that they are used by MLB hitters.

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