Pitching velocity

I don't know if this helps, but my son is being recruited for a couple of D 1 level schools right now. His FB sits at 90-92 and it tops out at 94-95. We are not sure if that would be at the #1 or #2 spot. He also has an above average 12-6 curve. He will be an incoming sophomore.

What level of D1 or D2? There are the major programs and then the weaker programs. And the answer will vary a great deal depending upon the program's strength.

quote:

What is the average FB for the #2-3 Pitcher on a Div 1 and Div 2 level roster. If the pitcher has a above average 12-6 curve and/or a quality off speed pitch.

Ryno,

I understand why you might desire the answer to that question.

There have been many questions asked here regarding the average velocity for just about every age, level of play and every situation you can think of.

To find the average of anything you would have to find out what every pitcher in that situation and age throws. That maybe can be researched and a number will result. But then you’d have to research how many of those pitchers have an above average 12-6 curveball and/or quality off speed pitch. After all of that, you would have to figure out what is an above average curveball and off speed pitch for a 2 or 3 starter at DI and DII. And by that time everyone would be totally confused.

Must say, I’ve never understood the fascination with average velocities. It takes lots of pitchers who throw both above and below average to compile the average (if that makes any sense). Then there are most all of the pitchers who throw average at their level (unless it is MLB average) who never make it to the next level.

The most confusing topics are when someone asks what the Little League Average or High School Freshman average or even high school average is. If you are below, above or average at all those levels… what does that actually mean?

Just in the interest of common sense…. Whatever the average is, there is a good possibility that some DI (or DII) schools will be far above average velocity, some will be average, some will be below average, a few will be far below average velocity.

Here is one man’s opinion (not based on any facts)

The average velocity of a 2 or 3 starter at the highest level of DI – High 80s – Low 90s

The average velocity of a 2 or 3 starter at the mid levels of DI – Upper 80s

The average velocity of a 2 or 3 starter at the lowest levels of DI – Mid 80s or higher

*Note – There are lots of exceptions to the above at all levels. Based on many things including quality of fastball movement, breaking pitches, off speed pitches, command, etc.

All the above is just a guess, except for the *Note

In the end, average just doesn’t mean too much. Some mid 80s are better than some 90 mph guys. The strongest programs successfully recruit the most quality arms (velocity) and quality pitchers. There are some colleges that will have more than 6 pitchers who can throw in the 90s on there roster while others might have 1 or 2. There could be DI programs that have no one who throws 90 or better.

Not to avoid your question completely… Overall I would estimate the average to be 86-87 mph. I just don’t think it really means much of anything.

However if your question is asked simply from a recruiting standpoint… The top DI programs try to recruit the best arms. Look at the recruiting classes each year and you will see that North Carolina, Clemson, Texas, Arizona State, Oregon State, etc., etc., etc. You will see that the top schools are recruiting lots of 90+ arms. If they all attend school, they can’t all be #1 starters at that school. Two years ago, North Carolina’s #2 pitcher was an upper 90s guy. They had several 90+ pitchers but I believe (could be mistaken) their #3 pitcher was a mid to upper 80s guy who holds the school record for wins.

Not trying to be a smart azz, but see how confusing this average stuff can get.

Best of luck

PG,
Good answers.

In my opinion, starters are given the job if they can throw strikes and win.

They are good answers. Effective pitchers mix velocity with command, movement and pitch selection.

Effective Velocity = velocity x command x movement.

Effective pitching is not how hard you throw, especially after high school. Effective pitching involves changing speeds with your fastball, hitting spots and knowing what spots to hit and when. Effective pitchers probably have a good change-up, which ideally moves the opposite way of the curve or slider.

If you pitch, then you know how irrelevant velocity below 95 is if its flat and fat.

The number of innings your fastball is effective, or how many innings can live at the knees usually determines your role. 5 innings or more and you can start. How well you can adjust the days your stuff is weak, is also a factor. So much more to it than the "gun".

quote:

Originally posted by baseballbrat:
...but my son is being recruited for a couple of D 1 level schools right now..... He will be an incoming sophomore.

In college?

Check this site out. It will tell you what all Divisions look for all the positions.

http://www.ncsasports.org/student-athletes-families/bas...cruiting-guidelines/

Hope this helps!

younggundad,

Very interesting site! Very helpful! Thanks for the link!

PS: for all you multi-sport athletes, delete "baseball" and type "football" into the URL and you'll get the same type of interesting info for football too!

YoungGunDad,

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew:

PS: for all you multi-sport athletes, delete "baseball" and type "football" into the URL and you'll get the same type of interesting info for football too!

There's also a drop-down menu where you can select the various sports.

Interesting information.

Thanks for the link! Great website for a topic always debated!

RYNO, this doesn't directly answer your question. But maybe it will help. Below are some recent radar readings I have observed. It is not a scientific sampling from a statistical standpoint. Multiple readings indicate different pitchers from the same school.

D1 (Big 12) - 88, 91, 86, 89, 91
D1 (Big 12) - 94 peak
D1 (Southland) - 88 peak, 85-86, mid 80's, 91 (closer)
D1 (Southland) - 81-83 (touched 85), mid 80's
D2 (top 5 nationally) - 82-84
D3 - low to mid 80's
D3 (nationally ranked) - low to mid 80's
NAIA - 84
NAIA - 89
NAIA - mid 80's, high 70's, high 70's to low 80's.
NAIA (nationally ranked) - high 80's, low 80's.
JUCO - 85, 83-87

All of these readings were taken during games, not during showcases. So they are probably a little lower than what some might expect.

I think I understand the fascination with averages, it is a feeling that I must keep up with the Jones' to suceed. But I also remember having this discussion with PG and others in the past and PG's essential point, I think, is why aspire to be "average"?

I would agree. Find out what the exceptional pitchers are throwing, velocity-wise. Make that your "goal" and develop all the other aspects of pitching (movement, location, deception, etc.)

Pitchers should always be aware that velocity may get you to the party (college ball), but getting batters out keeps you there. In my son's college summer league the stadium had a radar gun on the scoreboard and we saw pitchers running the entire gamut from SEC #2's to guys from D III's that only pitched a handful of innings, and everything in between. Three guys hit 90 all season long. The most impressive performance I saw was a Vanderbilt pitcher that simply painted the corner low and away with his fastball and curveball all night long, throwing a 3 hit shutout. His fastball never registered over 86. I suspect he likely has thrown "upper 80's" many times, but nobody cared that night, and batters left the box shaking their heads after flailing at low and away fastballs and some very sweet sharply breaking curves.

That's good to hear hokieone,

My son who will be a freshman at a D1 this year is a lefty who throws 85-86 and hits the spots. Also has a nice curve and changeup. Coach says he thinks he can get another three to four mph out of him when he gets him in his program. Maybe there is hope for a soft tossing lefty.

Theygrowupfast
The young valeditorian will do great at UTA.
He has great command and hits his spots well.

Signed another lefty's Dad LOL

Thanks Greg,

Time will tell.

I will be following your sons senior year and
beyond as well. I'm sure I will be hearing many
good things about him.

Good luck to you guys.

Danny

Ryno - agree with the comments about being "average" Been through this with our LHP son who signed with a D1 and entering this Fall.

Height, weight, and velocity will get numerous pitchers noticed. Getting good grades and SAT scores, throwing strikes, getting guys out, and handling adversity will get you signed.

Thanks Danny
Enjoy the ride

That was a nice website, I would argue the DIII stats naturally as I am a DIII coach. The average player at the DIII level for quality programs is more along the line of a nice DII player and a low DI player. In our program for instance the smallest guy in our IF is 6'1, tallest 6'5...so always remember there are many opinions, but there is NO substitute for going and watching the programs you are interested in. Too many times I hear kids "think" they can play for some program because they are "told" they are a high DI ballplayer or whatever, and have NEVER even seen a college baseball game!! GO WATCH and do your HOMEWORK...

Great advice Coach

Dad04 hit the nail on the head - there's a lot more to pitching than simply lighting up a radar gun.

The way I remember last year's CWS, was that there were a lot more pitchers throwing 85-86, than 91-92.

IMO, one of the better pitchers in college baseball last year - Alaniz at Texas - certinly didn't throw in the 90's.

Having said that, it appears that scouts use MPH more than they should when determining whether they will take a look at a HS pitcher or not.

Some of it simply boils down to both luck and performance IMO. I would guess that a guy throwing 90's can have an off day (when being scouted) and get by with it, where as a mid 80's guy better be "on" when a scout comes a calling.....at least at a D1 school.