Can anyone comment on Pitching.com website run by Dick Mills?
Dick Mills
He claims that the towel drill and long toss harm the pitcher's technique.
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I think all of the "names" out there have some morsel to offer. Mills is good with development of momentum and he is what I'd rate as good to very good at mechs analysis. As you mentioned he is very sour on certain drills, so is N Yman, who I'd also consider a very good analyzer and for HS age kids I'd say his velocity development program is very good (He is very straight forward..speaks his mind and thusly has alienated himself from this site..which is why you can't type his name I think). The reason I say that particular age group is that he advocates some very intense sessions in his velocity development program which has/does hurt the unprepared.
House is out there, he is excellent at education, fundementals, mechanic development, he's advocated certain drills and he's also either stepped away from some or modified his approach..which gets him beat up and made a target by many of the others. He doesn't as a rule respond to that criticism...which if you sit as the Pitching coach at S Cal. and have droves of major leaguers, Cy Younger's and HOF'ers seeking your advice makes sense.
Lots of people assign "value's like "good" and "bad" in relationship to these guys and the whole herd of others who work hard to "help" those asking for it. Personally I've talked to many of them, they are human, some seem very locked in on rhetorical fencing with those who ask questions, while there are some who can be approached (Dr. Glen Fleisig at ASMI is very approachable and open to questions for example..his team works with House).
The drills you mentioned are fire starters...great coaches use them and poor coaches use them, some don't use them at all but devise their own methods to acheive their training goals...and believe me..everyone and their mom will argue to no end about them.
House is out there, he is excellent at education, fundementals, mechanic development, he's advocated certain drills and he's also either stepped away from some or modified his approach..which gets him beat up and made a target by many of the others. He doesn't as a rule respond to that criticism...which if you sit as the Pitching coach at S Cal. and have droves of major leaguers, Cy Younger's and HOF'ers seeking your advice makes sense.
Lots of people assign "value's like "good" and "bad" in relationship to these guys and the whole herd of others who work hard to "help" those asking for it. Personally I've talked to many of them, they are human, some seem very locked in on rhetorical fencing with those who ask questions, while there are some who can be approached (Dr. Glen Fleisig at ASMI is very approachable and open to questions for example..his team works with House).
The drills you mentioned are fire starters...great coaches use them and poor coaches use them, some don't use them at all but devise their own methods to acheive their training goals...and believe me..everyone and their mom will argue to no end about them.
That's some great advice JD
JD,
Great response. I agree.
Most important thing to remember that there is a lot of advice out there, each one of the guys considered "gurus" have something of value to offer. Certain drills can often be helpful in correcting certain issues the pitcher may have.
My opinion is that the more complicated that you make it for the young pitcher, the less success he will have. I think that for son, he did well because those he worked with kept it simple.
You've mentioned that you have a PHD in watching videos, obviously pitching. Keep in mind that as the young pitcher develops you may see or may not see tendencies in him of famous pitchers, are you comparing? Trying to mold him into one of them?
That's not uncommon, but keep in mind that your son has his own set of unique markers (arm slot) in which to build upon, once you begin fooling around with that, you could be doing more harm than good. Some of the drills or theories you come across may or may not benefit every individual pitcher.
Great response. I agree.
Most important thing to remember that there is a lot of advice out there, each one of the guys considered "gurus" have something of value to offer. Certain drills can often be helpful in correcting certain issues the pitcher may have.
My opinion is that the more complicated that you make it for the young pitcher, the less success he will have. I think that for son, he did well because those he worked with kept it simple.
You've mentioned that you have a PHD in watching videos, obviously pitching. Keep in mind that as the young pitcher develops you may see or may not see tendencies in him of famous pitchers, are you comparing? Trying to mold him into one of them?
That's not uncommon, but keep in mind that your son has his own set of unique markers (arm slot) in which to build upon, once you begin fooling around with that, you could be doing more harm than good. Some of the drills or theories you come across may or may not benefit every individual pitcher.
quote:Originally posted by tradosaurus:
Can anyone comment on Pitching.com website run by Dick Mills?
I would say that, whether you agree with him or not, the site is a must read for any pitcher. He makes you think, and test your ideas.
There are probably more, but four major camps seem to be...
1. Dick Mills: It is all in the mechanics. Steroids do not enhance performance or even increase velocity. He teaches proper mechanics and delivery as well as how to analyze the delivery. Not big on conditioning, but has some conditioning. The focus is mechanics and he is good for that.
2. Tom House: A bit of a synthesis, stresses both mechanics and conditioning. He has changed over the years, which is a strength, not a weakness on some things he teaches. He stresses glove-side and encourages to leave ball side alone. Has a lot of drills to feel proper timing, etc. Some of his drills are under criticism including "towel drill."
3. Marshall: The most different of all. Is more open throughout delivery. Stresses among other things pronation at delivery. Seems to stress the line from mound to catcher. Has studied the delivery and stresses a motion that minimizes injury.
4. Wolforth/Stromm: They stress the athletic pitcher and study all three above. They try to take the best of the three above and have incorporated e.g. pronation of Marshall to help decelerate the arm during delivery. They point out the "degrees of freedom" in deliveries noting that no two MLB pitchers are in the same place at the same time. Have stressed use of over and under-loading with balls, but also have adapted over time. They believe that as velocity increases, the chance of injury increases and the pitcher must become more athletic as that happens. The pitcher, to develop velocity must have "the intent to throw hard." (Ryan thinks the same.)
I probably have butchered some of their thoughts and they may not agree with what I have posted. I believe all are trying to do a great job, there is just disagreement among the camps. A lot of the confusing posts you may see here are because the poster is in one of the camps above.
1. Dick Mills: It is all in the mechanics. Steroids do not enhance performance or even increase velocity. He teaches proper mechanics and delivery as well as how to analyze the delivery. Not big on conditioning, but has some conditioning. The focus is mechanics and he is good for that.
2. Tom House: A bit of a synthesis, stresses both mechanics and conditioning. He has changed over the years, which is a strength, not a weakness on some things he teaches. He stresses glove-side and encourages to leave ball side alone. Has a lot of drills to feel proper timing, etc. Some of his drills are under criticism including "towel drill."
3. Marshall: The most different of all. Is more open throughout delivery. Stresses among other things pronation at delivery. Seems to stress the line from mound to catcher. Has studied the delivery and stresses a motion that minimizes injury.
4. Wolforth/Stromm: They stress the athletic pitcher and study all three above. They try to take the best of the three above and have incorporated e.g. pronation of Marshall to help decelerate the arm during delivery. They point out the "degrees of freedom" in deliveries noting that no two MLB pitchers are in the same place at the same time. Have stressed use of over and under-loading with balls, but also have adapted over time. They believe that as velocity increases, the chance of injury increases and the pitcher must become more athletic as that happens. The pitcher, to develop velocity must have "the intent to throw hard." (Ryan thinks the same.)
I probably have butchered some of their thoughts and they may not agree with what I have posted. I believe all are trying to do a great job, there is just disagreement among the camps. A lot of the confusing posts you may see here are because the poster is in one of the camps above.
I have viewed the dick mills program and it is OK..it would probably be good for youth through early high school.
This guy has caught alot of my interest and would consider trying him for somebody in HS and beyond..check out his stuff on you tube..I like it
http://www.topvelocity.net/about/
This guy has caught alot of my interest and would consider trying him for somebody in HS and beyond..check out his stuff on you tube..I like it
http://www.topvelocity.net/about/
quote:Originally posted by tradosaurus:
Can anyone comment on Pitching.com website run by Dick Mills?
Dick Mills
He claims that the towel drill and long toss harm the pitcher's technique.
Momentum pitching is junk. The study he references was done on cricket bowlers. They have 10 or so feet to run before they can throw. Baseball pitchers have as far as they can stride and that's it.
Wolforth is by far the best of all of them.
N y m a n is very good on pitching, not so much on hitting.
Hodge (not even sure if you can get the tape anymore) is supposedly good on throwing/pitching.
Marshall is well intentioned, but his stuff simply hasn't worked at the MiLB or MLB level. Tyler Matzek may prove the doubters wrong or he may not. IMO, I wouldn't risk the future on a series of theories that hasn't worked yet.
I don't know anything about House outside of his work with Mark Prior. If most of his work is like Mark Prior, stay away.
quote:If most of his work is like Mark Prior
Tom House had nothing to do with Mark Prior running into Marcus Giles in the baseline or taking a liner off of his elbow..the first charactorized by Dr. Andrews as an injury he's only seen in traumatic fall injuries and the second a crush fracture. The above statement is just an internet myth, if you look into Prior, just look into his MLB player history, you'll see he was never arm injured in his entire career before slamming into Giles, now "blaming" anyone or thing for that....
House is not only credited by the likes of Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson as having significant positive impact on their pitching career...but to me, more importantly, he spends huge amounts of time training people how to coach..while having pitchers like Cole Hammels seek him to this day...all the time being the full time pitching coach of USC.
How are ya gonna hate on that?
quote:Originally posted by jdfromfla:quote:If most of his work is like Mark Prior
Tom House had nothing to do with Mark Prior running into Marcus Giles in the baseline or taking a liner off of his elbow..the first charactorized by Dr. Andrews as an injury he's only seen in traumatic fall injuries and the second a crush fracture. The above statement is just an internet myth, if you look into Prior, just look into his MLB player history, you'll see he was never arm injured in his entire career before slamming into Giles, now "blaming" anyone or thing for that....
House is not only credited by the likes of Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson as having significant positive impact on their pitching career...but to me, more importantly, he spends huge amounts of time training people how to coach..while having pitchers like Cole Hammels seek him to this day...all the time being the full time pitching coach of USC.
How are ya gonna hate on that?
Ok, so he had a problem only after he hit into Giles. But when he tore his labrum and his shoulder 4 years later, that wasn't related to Giles. That was related to the fact that his mechanical flaws caused him to break down.
House had Ryan and many great pitchers. I like all of the pitching instructors I named. I think all of them have good intentions and all have had to adjust what they both think and say.
Because of them, many dads know more about pitching than pitching coaches knew two decades ago. As you can tell gaining knowledge is a process. I don't mind if someone is wrong. I just think when you know your wrong, change.
House has studied pitching as much as anyone and is as smart as anyone. I think all instructors need to understand that "perfect" mechanics can still result in surgery when your hand is moving 95 mph to make the ball go 95 mph.
No pitching instructor can control all activities and innings and pitches and workouts, etc. of a player. Often the player is hurt by his own actions against the pitching coaches advice. Pryor was doing some things House didn't agree with, but Pryor is a grown-up and one cannot blame House for the injuries.
Because of them, many dads know more about pitching than pitching coaches knew two decades ago. As you can tell gaining knowledge is a process. I don't mind if someone is wrong. I just think when you know your wrong, change.
House has studied pitching as much as anyone and is as smart as anyone. I think all instructors need to understand that "perfect" mechanics can still result in surgery when your hand is moving 95 mph to make the ball go 95 mph.
No pitching instructor can control all activities and innings and pitches and workouts, etc. of a player. Often the player is hurt by his own actions against the pitching coaches advice. Pryor was doing some things House didn't agree with, but Pryor is a grown-up and one cannot blame House for the injuries.
quote:That was related to the fact that his mechanical flaws caused him to break down.
And how is it that you determined that? This is the surgery where Dr. Andrews identified the injury as I charactorized it.
And then to turn that into House's fault...Mark Prior was unlucky and untimely, the collisions and the fact that Dusty Baker over-pitched the living daylights out of him...nope none of that matters...
It's his work with House..House made some mechanic that only led to injury 4 years after a (Not my description but Dr. Andrews) catastrophic, traumatic fall injury and a crush injury to his pitching elbow (None of that or the healing of that weaked anything else...only Tom House....I get it)oh and I forgot to mention..it also disqualifies him from anything else he's ever done...whatta country...
