Pivotal years in youth baseball

Hello Fungo...I loved 13-14 . The real players were emerging and they did not have a driver license. Magnificient time! Wish I had been at the top of my coaching game sooner.

Good coaches that had to learn with the kids need to hang around a while and keep the next bunch of Dads from making the same mistakes.

I think in terms of Pivotal a little differently. I think that anywhere from ages 11-14 are pivotal because it is where the abilites really begin to seperate the haves and the have nots with regards to talent. That is where you have to really think about what you need to do with your child. My child is 11. She is getting several offers from select teams that already have had tryouts and yet, they are asking her to play without a tryout. She wants to play for the man that has coached her since she began playing rec. As parents, it is very hard on us because we know if she wants to play better competition then she needs to..... Well, I think most parents are realizing that there comes a time in this age bracket where they must also make tough choices. JMHO!

I'm hoping to approach this response from two angles. One being from my experience with my own son and from, of course, the umpires view.

I believe the pivotal years are the 13-14 years. The "PONY league" level. Up and until 12 years old the physical development of boys is very random. Some will shoot up or mature faster than others leaving you with a number of what we used to call "12 year old heros". A player of this type may be one of the taller kids and hardest throwers at that time only to find that 2 years later at 14 he is one of the shortest and now just average in throwing ability.

A wise coach once told my son to make a list of all the players names on his 12 yr old all star team..........and then open it when he was a senior and see how many players where still there. Of 15 players on his 12 yrd old all star team, 5 played HS varsity baseball.........of those 5........2 are now playing College baseball.

From all the thousands of players who I have had the honor of doing games with, I see the most maturation and development in those 13-14 year ages....plus on the outside influence side........at 15-16........girls...cars..other sports seem to siphon off the non committed.

I would say 14 to 15 is where the separation really begins. The players really move up to a new plateau. The rest muddle along.

I tend to agree re: responses related to physical aspect of the game (lower teens).

My entry into the nomination for pivotal time would be that first exposure to "competitive recreation" baseball. For my kid, it was 7 years old. It was there where we saw the first inclination of "belonging to the fraternity" and seeing a love for the game (both for him and his parents ).

With my son, it was 15-16. He played summer ball in Nevada and lived in an Apt. with another player who was 18. He learned about doing laundry and cooking and what it was like to be away from home. When College started, there was no problem with being homesick, as he had already gone through that.

I took the question as for my son personally, so I would have to say there are two main instances.

The first being when he was 11 and asked to move up to a traveling team. The competition was much better and he was exposed to much more of the advanced nuances of playing baseball.

The second being this past summer where he wasn't sure what to expect by playing with the "big boys". He was always confident in his abilities and wanted to play with and against the best and with that attitude, win or lose, he could always feel good about himself.

When my son was 11, he asked me, "Dad, am I doing the same things that MLB players did when they were my age?"

I said, "I think so, but I'll keep watching...."

And he still is.....................

FranF, I had to edit my post to put your quote here,

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.............and wanted to play with and against the best and with that attitude, win or lose, he could always feel good about himself

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Every year has it's place but the move to the "big diamond" at 13 seems to be where the game really becomes baseball. Not only do the physical parts of the game change, but, it now becomes a mental challenge that 13 yer olds are old enough to grasp.

Piaa_Ump...Our experience in baseball was almost identical to your post. The only thing I would add is a personal perspective about my son. Another pivotal point for him, and probably the most important one, was at age 15 when he made the decision to drop football and concentrate on baseball. In my area football is "King". He had to endure the ire of the football coaches and his friends to stay in baseball. He's glad he did.

I think 13 is the year in which the kids true interest in baseball is measured. Its the most important year because my son continued to play and be interested, unlike most of his former teamates.


I like to refer to it as the year that "all bets are off". Kids who were superstars in LL and were untouchable pitchers all of a sudden don't look so super and a few kids who never made to the majors in LL all of a sudden look pretty good. 13 is the age at which a large number kids start going in different directions and stop playing baseball. There are only two kids left from my son's 12 year old allstar team left playing HS baseball.

Fungo,
I know that you are asking from a parents point of view, but I think it is the player himself who needs to realize what years are his most important. As much as we try to do for them to get to the next level, they are the ones who have to really want to work hard to get there.
In my son's case every year was important, to him, to us, but at 15-16 he made the realization he might have the stuff (not just physically but emotionally) to go to the next level. He traveled throughout the summer and since has traveled extensively throughout the US playing baseball. We saw a real difference in him after that summer.

For our son, the most pivotal year was 14, and for most of the reasons that have already been stated ... the "studs" from LL were now just part of the crowd as some of the other players caught up physically; the work ethics ... or lack thereof ... started to surface as we watched players from "DC" (DaddyCoach) Ball having to compete with the more serious players; the ability to go outside the comfort zone and compete with former opponents and against former teammates.

Our son had the opportunity to leave his neighborhood "comfort zone" and try out for other teams ... something none of his LL all star teammates were willing to do. He wanted to play more baseball than they did and since they weren't playing a heavy fall/winter schedule, he was picked up by another team ... and despite his being up front and honest with his head coach, and telling him that this was only temporary because their team was not playing on a regular basis, he was NOT invited/welcomed/taken back in the spring to his "hometown" team ... and was even told (by "DC") that it might impact his being selected for the high school team where all his former LL all star teammates would probably be playing.

So for our son at least, that was the year that was most pivotal for him. And I believe it was most pivotal for his former teammates as they never left their "comfort zones" and seemed to have difficulty adapting to new circumstances as they moved up each level. Today, only 4 of the players are still playing ... 2 pros, 2 college. The 2 that are playing pro were drafted as juniors and were the only 2 who ever left the neighborhoood team. The other 2 will most likely finish out their senior years in college and then hang up the cleats.

no doubt.....14 year old
On the bigger field, learn the curve,change and beginning to have success with those pitches, more tournaments, travel.

Found out really had a love for the game and could compete outside the local talent.... very little outside distractions such as cars, girls and such....allot of fun for dad and son.

2nd son is in that age group now and I am looking forward to doing it all over again.

For those of you who don't know AJ's LL all-star team made it to the LLWS in 1995 and made it to the US championship game. Even so sending 2 players to the pros and 2 to college ball off one LL all-star team is pretty amazing.

IMO, there are still big physical maturity differences at 13 and still some differences at 14. I believe that for most kids 15 and 16 are the pivotal ages.

The first pivotal decision is when a kid (or more likely his/her parents) decides to start play. Many moons ago most organized youth sports didn't start till 9, now it's as early as 4; and early success/failure can well determine if you'll continue on.

I think the next pivotal year is 12, when kids "graduate" from Little League and determine whether to continue on.
The next comes at around 14 when you face the decision to try out for the HS baseball team. After that, every year becomes a pivotal year as more and more choices in life come your way.

i am 11 and i dont have a dad but my grandma got me into baseball and well see i think my best years right know are little league this year right now i am playing fall ball and i am really getting my first chance to pitch my record is 3-1 15so-25 and see now baseball is really getting extra fun email me at diamondbacks@cfl.rr.com

The most important years in my kid's development was somewhere around 7th , 8th grade. By then the baseball situation had sifted out and he was one of the area's better players, he had gained some recognition (mostly validating his abilities for himself) and was asked to join a premier team.

All of this was ego boosting for him at a time when he really needed it. It was a point in time when his grades in school were on the edge of being in the toilet and playing baseball and his love for playing basball was the catalyst.

That age, early junior high, those were the most important years of playing ball. That time helped him define who he was and what direction he wanted to take.

My initial response is that it depends on when the player matures, physically. But thinking back, I'd go along with the 13-14 age. I don't know if this is representative across the country, but in my experience a significant percentage of players who played at 13-14 also went on to play in high school. Therefore, if a player successfully navigates through playing competing with players at different levels of physical maturity, the change in field dimensions, etc. then they stand a chance of at least playing in in high school. Just my unscientific observation.

Interesting to see that many of the parents with older players feel that the 13-15 year span may have been the most pivitol. I then wondered what a players thoughts were. I email my son, a soph in college, asking the question and he came back and said as far as he remembers every year was more pivitol than the previous. At first I thought it was a PC answer to a question he thought may be loaded. But then he went on to say that every year you are challenged with new obsicles and at the end of that year you look back and think this was the year I turned the corner. Then comes next year...........same story.

Maybe my kid is not the norm, but, I thought it was intersting how his perception of time and benchmarks is on a different plane than an older adult. I looked at the "pivitol point" as an event in time. He looked at it as an ongoing adventure. I'll bet he looks at it differently when 40 - something.

To me its 14-16. This is where the kid starts making his own decisions about baseball and life to a certain degree. It is also when they really start physically developing into young men. For the first time they have real distractions like girs cars etc. The choices that they make during these years are critical. Not to mean that choices later in life are not critical. Many a talented player has fallen by the wayside during this time period because they got distracted or discouraged. Just my opinion.

My opinion - There is probably a definative turning point for most kids but an on-going process for many as is / was the case for RZ1's son.
If you care to listen first-hand to one kid's perspective , check out the following:

www.riverbend.com
double-click on ESPN RADIO 'Faith In The Game"
double-click on 'playlist'
double-click 'faithgame5'
double-click 'audio'


The third interview of the show is with a 17 y/o baseball player so you may want to fast-forward, although the gymnast and football player's interviews are interesting. Thinking about it, the entire half-hour is worth listening to.

looking back it seems that the pivotal mile-stones were clearly tied venturing from the "comfort zone"

8 yrs - moving uo 2 age levels in rec ball, to be either challenged or overwhelmed

12 yrs old - venturing out of both the player's and parents "comfort zone" to a select travel team - the unknowns about where you'll fit are tough enough, then add the critisizm by some that you are disregarding community loyalty -

16 yrs old - living 5 hours away from home with a strange (host) family, playing national level competion, again wondering about the fit with players for all over the country - then add more critisizm regarding loyalty

17 yrs old - accepting a challenging college opportunity over others that many "helpful friends" thought were a better fit

21 yrs old - he hasn't been home since last Christmas - but he still knows who to call when he wants to talk about something - or just talk

Oddly enough, the 'at-bats' I remember most were his first cuts with a big red plastic bat out in a grassy, un-mowed field in Brighton Heights (PIttsburgh). I went to a Fred Meyer, bought that little set and we walked into the field...I started tossing him the ball and he started hitting them. The joy on his face from his first 'hit' was very apparent. If he'd hated it and had wanted to chase grasshoppers instead, things would be different - so that first encounter was very important.
Now, almost ten years later, I still work with him but nothing can take us back to that first time when he was five....

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Originally posted by Bee>:
looking back it seems that the pivotal mile-stones were clearly tied venturing from the "comfort zone"

8 yrs - moving uo 2 age levels in rec ball, to be either challenged or overwhelmed

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8YO a milestone??? Kids don't even need to be playing organized ball until kid pitch starts at 9YO.

Heaven help us if there is a make or break at 8YO.

Pivotal in my sons case I can think of 3

At the age of 9 when he asked if we would be willing to drive 80 miles round trip to let him continue playing on the team he had played on the previous two years in the town we moved away from. (I expected this to last a few weeks, it ended up lasting many years).

At the age of 13 when he played on his a Perfect Game team. He learned a whole lot playing with kids from all over our area, not just local kids, and made some great friendships in the process.

At the age of 20 when he became a father and had to learn how to seriously keep his priorities in tact, and still play competitive baseball.

tex, you mis-understand my observation -

pivotal is not a "make or break" point, just a large step forward

by tex "Kids don't even need to be playing organized ball until kid pitch starts at 9YO"

4th graders just beginning baseball was part of the reason for the move up early on - most had not even a basic understanding of the game & could not throw or catch safely

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Originally posted by rz1:
Every year has it's place but the move to the "big diamond" at 13 seems to be where the game really becomes baseball. Not only do the physical parts of the game change, but, it now becomes a mental challenge that 13 yer olds are old enough to grasp.

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I agree with rz1. The move to the big diamond is the biggest. I would have to include the 12-14 years. My son started on the 60/90 at 12, but even if he hadn't it is the year that you try to prepare for the move. Those 3 years separate the men from the boys and many kids disappear from the game at that time. Most are just not strong enough to make the throws.

Like most i think between 12-14. Moving from the Little league diamond to the regulation diamond weeds out a lot of kids who were "successfu;" simply because they were bigger and stronger but not possessing true baseball skills.

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Originally posted by Bee>:
tex, you mis-understand my observation -

pivotal is not a "make or break" point, just a large step forward

by tex "Kids don't even need to be playing organized ball until kid pitch starts at 9YO"

4th graders just beginning baseball was part of the reason for the move up early on - most had not even a basic understanding of the game & could not throw or catch safely

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Sorry for the misunderstanding.

9YO's are in third grade, for the most part. Which is when most leagues start player pitch.

Start a kid in fall ball when he first turns league age 9. Sure he won't be at the same level as the kids who started in the cradle. So what? With a little work over the winter, he will catch up a great deal by the start of the spring season. And if he has an aptitude for the game, he can make all-stars at 10YO, although he may not be in the top five players in the league.

By 11YO, you will not be able to tell who started in the cradle and who started at 9YO.

But at 12 to 14, you may be able to tell. Because a significant number of those who started in the cradle are getting burned out to varying degrees. At a time when it is crucial for them to be working on their game, they don't really want to do so. They are tired of baseball because they have been playing it "forever" (their words, not mine). I have seen some good ballplayers just quit at 12 to 13, because they started at 6YO, it's all they can ever remember doing and they are just tired of it.

9YO's can't throw or catch well if they start at 9YO. So start at 8YO. But wait, the 8YO's can't throw or catch well when they start. So you better start at 7YO. But wait, the 7YO's can't throw or catch well when they start. So now we have leagues starting kids at 4YO!?! Where do you stop?

Wait until they are 9YO & player pitch starts. This avoids problems with abnormal fear of the ball (resulting from a false sense of confidence coming from machine or coach pitch), uppercutting (ditto), improper catching techniques, etc. And at the early ages, they can't play the game properly - either physically or mentally. So what they understand about the game isn't real anyhow to an extent. I never coached a 9YO who couldn't gain a good understanding of the game (catching up to the cradle ballers) in a season. All he needs is a coach who teaches the game.

Early age baseball is about the parents, not the kids. JMHO.

Texan

"cradle ballers" - that is a term that sounds pretty bitter.

"Early age baseball is about the parent, not the kids. JMHO"

It would seem that in your case it would have been a true statement so I can understand yoiur opinion. But don't assume that all kids feel about the game the way yours apparently did before the age of nine.

I have one of my children who cried his heart out at age 4 because he wasn't old enough to play on any of the teams and had to wait until the following summer. But then, he was a bit unusual to begin with, he actually watched MLB games on TV at that age, and I mean really watch them.

He could imitate the batting stance of most of the top players at the time. Not because of Mom and Dad, but because he really liked it. I figured it was harmles, after all he would grow out of that soon enough - well at 21 he still hasn't grown out of it , but I still feel it was harmless.

Don't put all kids into the same boat. Just because you chose not to put your son on a team before age 9, or you have seen a handful of kids burn out early does not mean that all "cradle ballers" play for their parents. Some are "cradle ballers" because they developed their passion for the game younger than yours apparently. did. No harm in that.

tex maybe it's just a regional difference -

northern rec ball burnout is unheard of - here, if a kid began rec ball in 1rst grade and played thru 8th grade their career would total about 130 games TOTAL - - fall leagues are just starting to appear but most youngsters play football in the fall -

I could agree early age sports is partially about the parents tho -
parents anxious to find a structured situation where their children can expend some of their vast reserve of energy, make some friends, and learn something at the same time
parents who's kid reminds them about sign-ups every evening for 3 months prior to the actual date
and parents with a yard that still shows traces of basepaths from 10 yrs ago

That 1st year (13) on the big diamond is a turning point for most players the throws get longer, the bases are too far apart, the line drive to left is now two hopper to short. Those who have the arm strength, foot and bat speed survive a tough year and move on. The ages of 13-15 are the most pivotal that's when "real" baseball starts to get played when skills (not just size) start to seperate the players. They were also a lot of fun because of travel toyrnaments etc.

Many different years all important...

6yrs old... choose between s****r and baseball (they had the same season)
7yrs old... made first All-Star team
10yrs old... asked to play AAU
14yrs old... made J.V. team and played every inning
16yrs old... made All-State (private schools)
18yrs old... made All-State (Public schools largest classification)
19yrs old... became starter on College team
20yrs old... made All-American

as you can see each one was an important milestone that paved way for next thing.

Interesting thread. Mine is a college freshman RHP, and I would say the most pivotal years for him have been each year that he moved up to a new level. The major ones have been:

Age 10, his first year of "real" pitching in a 11-12 yr old league, where he discovered that whether he was striking out a batter or struggling with bases loaded, he loved, loved, loved being on that mound.

Age 14/15 HS freshman, playing both JV and varsity, and being very impressed with these muscular 18-yr-olds with facial hair, but wanting to be out there competing with the big boys.

Age 18 now as a college freshman, thrilled to be playing for the best coaches he has ever had, and with the best teammates he's had, wanting to compete, working hard to become one of the best players.

I think for my son, the most pivotal years were not the years when he accomplished things that were noticed by others or written up in the paper, but the years when he stepped up to a new challenge and had to work very hard just to belong at that new level.

Bee,

Loved it. The real estate agent who listed our house when we moved (son was 9 at the time) asked us what the cement spot in the front yard was.

I explained to her that it was not cement at all, it was in fact the yard, but it was also home plate, and therefore the grass had given up growing there years before and the dirt was as hard as cement.

Call me sentimental, but I really miss that spot in my front yard

According to a National YMCA survey a few years back, a suprising (to me anyway) 70% of all kids in baseball drop out by age 11. "I" attribute this to starting kid pitch at age 9 or 10. Most kids cannot overcome the fear of being hit by the ball. Of course this is a very rational response considering the average control of most 9 yr. old pitchers. However, I think that is the reason and therefore, a very pivotal age.

kids that drop out at 11 do so because, their "well meaning" youth coaches (usually parents) put them thru 5+ yrs of practice where they stood around bored & did't really learn anything

and an athletic 9yr old has no difficulty getting out of the way of a 32 mph fastball with an 8 ft arc - tho some will "take one for the team" - - heck, most of em have a sister who can hit them harder than the baseball, when she's mad

I agree. But as I said, it is the "fear" of being hit. Not that it is unlikely that they cannot be hit.

I have been able (so far) to be the coach of my son's teams. Youth baseball should be treated as a fun after school activity 2-3 days a week. Not all parents are "over the top" with it.