A local D1 state school this past year had a 60% attrition rate within it's program due to graduation, draft, grades, etc.... The local D1 private school had 70% attrition.
Is this commonplace, acceptable or an anomaly ?
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There are many,many reasons players leave programs and most to the time you don't really know why unless you personally know the player. The best thing you can do to avoid a "mistake" is research the school, the team, the coaches, the players as best as possible before making a commitment. Talk to parents that have players on the team.
Leading up to son's recruitment I read rosters and followed players for about the last 5 years at schools he was interested in. You can really see trends at certain schools as you follow the rosters. I used to think some of these schools just didn't play fair with their recruits. Now after son and his friends playing D1 ball for several years I have found there are many reasons for kids leaving school.
Some can't stay eligible and are in over their heads academically. You would think with mandatory study hall as freshman that this can't happen but it does. Does that mean the coaches aren't paying enough attention to recruits or is it probably immaturity on the players part ?
Some players think they have been told they are going to be starters and don't realize how competitive it is for playing time once you get to campus. Most coaches during the recruiting process will say "you will be given the opportunity to start". Players don't really realize this means they have to be better than anyone else at their position and hit the cover off the ball to earn a starting position.
Some players don't fully grasp the time commitment of playing a college sport. Between classes, studying, working out, practicing, there is very little extra time during the day for other stuff. The player has to be absolutely passionate about his sport to continue at that pace.
Some players may get disillusioned with their role on the team. Maybe not enough playing time or they end up disliking the coaches or the school.
It really is all about "fit". If everything doesn't mesh well and the player isn't happy then they may choose to leave.
I think you'd have to look very carefully at a program that had a 70% attrition rate. Even ASU with all it's draft eligible juniors doesn't lose 70% of their team each year. Seems like a huge red flag to me.
At the end of the season the coaches usually sit down with each player to review the season and plan for the next season. Some players just aren't happy with the coaches plans for him the next season and may choose to transfer. That's an whole nother can of worms!
Leading up to son's recruitment I read rosters and followed players for about the last 5 years at schools he was interested in. You can really see trends at certain schools as you follow the rosters. I used to think some of these schools just didn't play fair with their recruits. Now after son and his friends playing D1 ball for several years I have found there are many reasons for kids leaving school.
Some can't stay eligible and are in over their heads academically. You would think with mandatory study hall as freshman that this can't happen but it does. Does that mean the coaches aren't paying enough attention to recruits or is it probably immaturity on the players part ?
Some players think they have been told they are going to be starters and don't realize how competitive it is for playing time once you get to campus. Most coaches during the recruiting process will say "you will be given the opportunity to start". Players don't really realize this means they have to be better than anyone else at their position and hit the cover off the ball to earn a starting position.
Some players don't fully grasp the time commitment of playing a college sport. Between classes, studying, working out, practicing, there is very little extra time during the day for other stuff. The player has to be absolutely passionate about his sport to continue at that pace.
Some players may get disillusioned with their role on the team. Maybe not enough playing time or they end up disliking the coaches or the school.
It really is all about "fit". If everything doesn't mesh well and the player isn't happy then they may choose to leave.
I think you'd have to look very carefully at a program that had a 70% attrition rate. Even ASU with all it's draft eligible juniors doesn't lose 70% of their team each year. Seems like a huge red flag to me.
At the end of the season the coaches usually sit down with each player to review the season and plan for the next season. Some players just aren't happy with the coaches plans for him the next season and may choose to transfer. That's an whole nother can of worms!
dswann,
I'm having trouble vizualizing this. Are you saying that for the private D1:
They had 35 players rostered in spring 2010, and are now listing only 10 of the 35 as returning? 25 players left?
I would see that as a red flag, but most schools list rosters for several seasons into the past (frequently under "archives"). You should be able to see the trends, and also to see if there was a big bubble of upperclassmen last year. Maybe it is a one-time event.
I'm having trouble vizualizing this. Are you saying that for the private D1:
They had 35 players rostered in spring 2010, and are now listing only 10 of the 35 as returning? 25 players left?
I would see that as a red flag, but most schools list rosters for several seasons into the past (frequently under "archives"). You should be able to see the trends, and also to see if there was a big bubble of upperclassmen last year. Maybe it is a one-time event.
I would think a 70% attrition rate referred to a "given" class entering. Say 10 guys enter as freshman and only 3 are left as seniors.
That's not that easy to generalize about unless you look at it over a period of years.
That's not that easy to generalize about unless you look at it over a period of years.
3FG, The state school had a coaching change and the private school would fall under the "Anomaly" category. A "perfect storm" if you will of draftees, graduates and possible malcontents.
In posting the thread I was really just curious on what acceptable turnover, at different programs around the country might be. In addition, encouraging upcoming early signees, that you might want to peel the onion back a bit to see what you're getting youself into. As 3FG suggested, researching roster archives is very helpful and certainly made a difference in the boys decision.
CB's explanations of why players leave was spot on. The boys experience to date has been pretty much as CB has described it regarding the time commitment. It's only been 2 weeks and it will only get busier. I can see why a player would move on if they were not being played or afforded opportunities, based on the level of commitment the school is asking of the player.
I would imagine D2,D3,NAIA and JUCO are as demanding as the D1 programs. Iam not certain if the D1 programs will have more turnover in a effort to free up bb $$$.
Maybe the thread should have been. Is it harder to get there or harder to stick.
In posting the thread I was really just curious on what acceptable turnover, at different programs around the country might be. In addition, encouraging upcoming early signees, that you might want to peel the onion back a bit to see what you're getting youself into. As 3FG suggested, researching roster archives is very helpful and certainly made a difference in the boys decision.
CB's explanations of why players leave was spot on. The boys experience to date has been pretty much as CB has described it regarding the time commitment. It's only been 2 weeks and it will only get busier. I can see why a player would move on if they were not being played or afforded opportunities, based on the level of commitment the school is asking of the player.
I would imagine D2,D3,NAIA and JUCO are as demanding as the D1 programs. Iam not certain if the D1 programs will have more turnover in a effort to free up bb $$$.
Maybe the thread should have been. Is it harder to get there or harder to stick.
dswann,
I think if you do some deep research, the state school you may be thinking of, even though it had a recent assistant coaching change, it has a relatively long reputation for brining in 20+ new players each year. This from turnover due to the draft, graduation, grades, players leaving for greener pastures, and also coaches "going in other directions". I have a friend who looked like he was contributing, one of their top BA guys, was told going into his senior year, his services were not needed.
As for the private school, they also have historically brought in many position players as walk-ons (giving most scholarship money to pitchers), that are told they will not make it to their sophomore year on the roster.
This of course is has longer lasting effects on the DI level to the players that other levels with the transfer rules.
Some programs are better at succession planning and developing players, but the need to win often out weighs the development process.
I think if you do some deep research, the state school you may be thinking of, even though it had a recent assistant coaching change, it has a relatively long reputation for brining in 20+ new players each year. This from turnover due to the draft, graduation, grades, players leaving for greener pastures, and also coaches "going in other directions". I have a friend who looked like he was contributing, one of their top BA guys, was told going into his senior year, his services were not needed.
As for the private school, they also have historically brought in many position players as walk-ons (giving most scholarship money to pitchers), that are told they will not make it to their sophomore year on the roster.
This of course is has longer lasting effects on the DI level to the players that other levels with the transfer rules.
Some programs are better at succession planning and developing players, but the need to win often out weighs the development process.
Hopefully the upcoming early signees will have done their "Deep Research".
quote:Maybe the thread should been. Is it harder to get there or harder to stick.
dswann, now that is a thought provoking question. I wonder how parents would answer vs. how their son might answer.
Before college baseball/college athletics for our children, I had always thought the hardest part was was where you were/are as a player/athlete at the time.
What I believe most find out is that nothing before college adequately prepares for the rigors of college life, college academics, being on your own, being responsible for your actions and in-actions, all combined with the highs, the lows, the intensity, the level of competition and the daily grind over 11 1/2 months(including Summer ball) of college baseball. In a sense, there are no days off without potential risks and/or consequences. Even the hardest days of work don't usually achieve immediate results and rewards. Even if they do, any rewards need to be quickly viewed as fleeting as tomorrow is another day.
Success is not based on what was done yesterday.
Along with a few other Old Timers still posting, my view continues to be that the most difficult part of the transition to college baseball is the mental aspect. I honestly believe that most recruited players have the tools and physical skills.
With that said, I don't think there are too many helpful threads on any site about the mental side. This one I have cut and pasted is a thought provoking article on a highly recruited college player...who recently chose to give up baseball after his freshman year. I think his words answer your question pretty clearly and speak very, very much to the mental grind that can be college baseball or baseball in Milb:
"As sports writers, we sit back sometimes and wonder how young athletes can continue the pace they are on — some of it year around — and not at some point just say the heck with it all, I’m out of here.
So maybe it’s not surprising when we discover one of those among us has done just that. South Kitsap graduate Brady Steiger, whose list of honors is long, has decided one injury-filled year at Washington State is enough. He’s had it. He’s out of here.
A year ago, Steiger, a third baseman, was ranked 10th in the Northwest for the class of 2009 by Baseball Northwest. It looked like he had the baseball world by its tail. Little did we know he was wearing down, that he had actually thought for several years that something just wasn’t right.
He was burned out on baseball.
“I just kind of lost the desire to play anymore,” Steiger said. “I think I burned myself out earlier in the season. It just didn’t work out. I got my taste of what it was like at a higher level and realized it was not what I wanted to do anymore.”
Playing a sport at a high level takes a lot of time and energy in today’s world. A high school athlete plays for his school team and on the side practices and plays tournaments with his select club year-round at showcase events where pro and college scouts may outnumber regular fans.
The pressure and the commitment — not including the cost to parents — is exceedingly high. And that is just for a high school-level athlete.
Multiply everything by 10 or more when it comes to being a college athlete on full scholarship.
In a recent study done by Richard Stratton of Virginia Tech’s physical education department, he found about 70 percent of kids involved in sports drop out before they turn 13.
Another study found that only two percent of high school athletes earn scholarships. And the chances of anyone making it to the pros are 0.1 percent — that’s one in 1,000.
Yet, the pressure to perform all year continues unabated. Parents want their child to be the best and, in many cases push for him/her to select a sport and play it at a high level for a long time.
So should we be surprised when somebody like Steiger, who by all accounts appeared to have a bright future in college baseball, and maybe a chance to beat the one-in-1,000 odds and make it as a pro baseball player, calls it quits?
“This caught me by surprise,” Washington State coach Donnie Marbut said. “Sometimes players want to make a change in their life. Sometimes it is important to do things that make you happy.
“We have seen this happen before. A lot of baseball players at colleges leave. It’s more than a job. It’s a fulltime commitment, a way of life. Sometimes guys do burn out. It’s just something as a coach you have to deal with.”
Steiger struggled with injuries. He broke a bone in his foot during fall ball and in the spring suffered a rib injury that limited his effectiveness. He made four starts and played in 14 games, mostly in late innings. He had the game-winning hit in a 3-2 win over BYU.
For the season, Steiger had 22 at-bats, seven hits (all singles), scored five runs and batted in two runs.
But Steiger, whose grade-point average at SK was near 3.8, discovered a college athlete on scholarship means you don’t have much of a life beyond your sport and your books.
“It’s a whole new world up here,” Steiger said. “You are not playing a game anymore. It’s a job.”
The “job” required his full attention almost all the time, daybreak to darkness.
“Baseball has been a struggle for me the last couple years,” Steiger says. “I thought college would pick me up. I thought it would be pretty fun. But it’s a tough road up there. The travel isn’t an easy thing to do. I realized you have to do a lot more than that if you go higher (to the pros).
“I didn’t think I wanted to make this my career any more. I just decided to hang it up.”
The decision wasn’t easy. He had been playing baseball since he was five and had played a high level of select ball with the Northwest Timberjacks before landing his scholarship. But he had been thinking about quitting for the last three months of the season. He consulted with family and friends who assured him that as long as he was comfortable with it and would have no later regrets they would back him.
Steiger made his decision two weeks before the season ended, but decided to wait until the season ended before announcing it to Marbut. He felt he owned the team that much.
“It was a hard decision,” he said. “I know there will be times when I will miss it. But I’m happy with my decision. I think I made the right one.”
“Sometimes it’s tough to be honest with yourself,” Marbut said. “It’s not the easiest thing. Give him credit for being able to walk away from the game. He’s a bright kid. We will miss him.”
Well, not exactly. Marbut offered to help him get a position as an equipment guy. Steiger accepted. The agreement is that Steiger will receive small financial aid this coming season and then will get full tuition plus a stipend next year, and a little more the following season.
Steiger is excited to remain involved.
“The hardest part for me was leaving the guys on the team,” Steiger said. “I love the guys, so I’m glad to at least be with the guys and be around the team.”
Steiger has also been doing some youth coaching around Port Orchard and will likely stay involved in the game that way in the future.
“I love it. It’s great,” he says of the coaching.
“He’s a great student,” Marbut added. “He wants to go to WSU and get his degree. That is the most important thing. He’s not going to waiver on that. He just didn’t want to play the game anymore.”
Kudo's to those who have stayed the course
infielddad,
That article should be kept somewhere on this site.Like in the front where they have recruiting stuff.
That article is exactly what many old timers try to tell high school parents who come on here.
There is no way a parent can force a young man to do it.If he doesn't live it, and breathe it, he won't make it at high level college baseball.
Injury just complicates it even more, now you have to add rehab, sometimes surgery, and still be at all team workouts and practices.
If my son hung up his cleats tomorrow I would support him 100%.And I love baseball.
The young man mentions the travel.It is grinding.Many leave Thursday morning early(depending on where they are going), they get back late Sunday nt.
This kid in the article is from Washington State. Well let me tall you it is hell to get out of there.
My son went there from USC last year.Left at 530am Thursday morning, Took a flight to Seattle, then a puddle jumper to Spokane, then a two hour bus ride to University.Then
they are suppose to practice on opposing teams field.
It was freezing cold, they ended up not practicing.Three games, it is raining ice,freezing cold, get their butts creamed all weekend, have to go back same way they came.
Back at 1am Sunday night and class on Monday. Do the math.
That article should be kept somewhere on this site.Like in the front where they have recruiting stuff.
That article is exactly what many old timers try to tell high school parents who come on here.
There is no way a parent can force a young man to do it.If he doesn't live it, and breathe it, he won't make it at high level college baseball.
Injury just complicates it even more, now you have to add rehab, sometimes surgery, and still be at all team workouts and practices.
If my son hung up his cleats tomorrow I would support him 100%.And I love baseball.
The young man mentions the travel.It is grinding.Many leave Thursday morning early(depending on where they are going), they get back late Sunday nt.
This kid in the article is from Washington State. Well let me tall you it is hell to get out of there.
My son went there from USC last year.Left at 530am Thursday morning, Took a flight to Seattle, then a puddle jumper to Spokane, then a two hour bus ride to University.Then
they are suppose to practice on opposing teams field.
It was freezing cold, they ended up not practicing.Three games, it is raining ice,freezing cold, get their butts creamed all weekend, have to go back same way they came.
Back at 1am Sunday night and class on Monday. Do the math.
What many don't realize, D1 baseball is harder than JC ball mainly due to the travel schedule. Schools in the PAC 10 travel great distances while JC ball is more localized. The practice time is the same, but that travel eats up a lot of their time.
To bad to see Brady hang it up, we know him and like everyone else thought he would go all the way.
To bad to see Brady hang it up, we know him and like everyone else thought he would go all the way.
infield dad;
great post! Life as a College athlete is glamorous and realized by a select few. Most don't realize what was sacrificed to get there and what it takes to stay!
Great article that cuts to the heart of the subject. A must read for all Parents!
Thanks for your insight, stuff like this is why us newbies come here!
great post! Life as a College athlete is glamorous and realized by a select few. Most don't realize what was sacrificed to get there and what it takes to stay!
Great article that cuts to the heart of the subject. A must read for all Parents!
Thanks for your insight, stuff like this is why us newbies come here!
There are some really good responses on this thread -- and the article posted by infielddad tells it like it is for some.
The school my son committed to has fabulous coaches and a great program that competes against CWS contenders (the team defeated Rice & TCU this year), but there has still been unexpected attrition. In the past two years, apart from graduation and the draft, the program has lost players for the following reasons:
* A freshman didn't get the playing time he had hoped for and transferred to a JUCO.
* A sophomore transfer from a JUCO couldn't cut the mustard athletically and was released after fall practice.
* A freshman had failing grades midway through fall semester and decided to leave after being confronted by the coach.
* A player with extremely high potential was pretty much a head case, didn't live up to his hype, was given extremely limited playing time, and left after 2 years.
* A sophomore realized that, based on incoming talent, he would always be a back-up, and he transferred to a lower level school where he could get playing time.
* A sophomore whose skills were just not there was told that he was welcome to stay, but would not get playing time in the future. He chose to leave.
And then there's my son, who left the program after 2 years, despite being able to start part of the time in both his freshman and sophomore years and hitting .300+ both seasons. His college coach told him he had the ability to go pro, but he realized after 2 years of playing in college that pro ball was no longer his dream. Unlike some, for whom baseball is an all-consuming passion, my son enjoys hunting and fishing even more, and his college location and the extreme demands on his time prohibited him from doing the things he most enjoyed. At first, it was tough to accept his decision to leave, but it has been wonderful to see his joy and happiness now that he has transferred to a school he loves and has the time and freedom to be in the great outdoors. (And his part-time job at Bass Pro Shops is icing on the cake!
)
My next-door-neighbor's son is working on his B.B.A. degree after finishing a bachelor's in music a few years ago. After college graduation, he worked for 2-3 years as an asst. band director in area schools before deciding to return to school. He said, “I never realized that I didn’t want to teach music until I did it for a while. Now, when I pass a school’s band hall, I get a pit in stomach.”
His thoughts echo those of many college baseball players, who for one reason or another decide that the game at the college level is not as enjoyable as they thought it would be. At times, high attrition may be less a symptom of a problematic program than of the uncertainty that accompanies young men who are unsure of what they really want in life. What sounds good in theory doesn't always translate into a wonderful, fairy-tale situation, no matter how much planning and research goes into it beforehand.
The school my son committed to has fabulous coaches and a great program that competes against CWS contenders (the team defeated Rice & TCU this year), but there has still been unexpected attrition. In the past two years, apart from graduation and the draft, the program has lost players for the following reasons:
* A freshman didn't get the playing time he had hoped for and transferred to a JUCO.
* A sophomore transfer from a JUCO couldn't cut the mustard athletically and was released after fall practice.
* A freshman had failing grades midway through fall semester and decided to leave after being confronted by the coach.
* A player with extremely high potential was pretty much a head case, didn't live up to his hype, was given extremely limited playing time, and left after 2 years.
* A sophomore realized that, based on incoming talent, he would always be a back-up, and he transferred to a lower level school where he could get playing time.
* A sophomore whose skills were just not there was told that he was welcome to stay, but would not get playing time in the future. He chose to leave.
And then there's my son, who left the program after 2 years, despite being able to start part of the time in both his freshman and sophomore years and hitting .300+ both seasons. His college coach told him he had the ability to go pro, but he realized after 2 years of playing in college that pro ball was no longer his dream. Unlike some, for whom baseball is an all-consuming passion, my son enjoys hunting and fishing even more, and his college location and the extreme demands on his time prohibited him from doing the things he most enjoyed. At first, it was tough to accept his decision to leave, but it has been wonderful to see his joy and happiness now that he has transferred to a school he loves and has the time and freedom to be in the great outdoors. (And his part-time job at Bass Pro Shops is icing on the cake!
My next-door-neighbor's son is working on his B.B.A. degree after finishing a bachelor's in music a few years ago. After college graduation, he worked for 2-3 years as an asst. band director in area schools before deciding to return to school. He said, “I never realized that I didn’t want to teach music until I did it for a while. Now, when I pass a school’s band hall, I get a pit in stomach.”
His thoughts echo those of many college baseball players, who for one reason or another decide that the game at the college level is not as enjoyable as they thought it would be. At times, high attrition may be less a symptom of a problematic program than of the uncertainty that accompanies young men who are unsure of what they really want in life. What sounds good in theory doesn't always translate into a wonderful, fairy-tale situation, no matter how much planning and research goes into it beforehand.
Hopefully we're not being too negative about the difficulty of playing baseball in college.These posts are all a dose of reality for parents that are in the recruiting process. Your son really has to have the drive, passion, and desire to completely devote his life to baseball in college. If you notice Brady Steiger said he was hoping college baseball would pick him up. He sounds like he had reservations going into college ball.Playing a sport in college isn't for everyone and yet for those that stick with it, it is a rewarding, fun, challenging, life changing experience. And in baseball because there are so few full scholarships the player better be playing just because he loves it!
I think the sportswriter of the Steiger article chose to play up all the negatives of playing a college sport. Counter balance that with all the thousands of college athletes that are still playing and enjoying it.
So parents add these posts to your collection to help you and your player along the recruiting trail.
I think the sportswriter of the Steiger article chose to play up all the negatives of playing a college sport. Counter balance that with all the thousands of college athletes that are still playing and enjoying it.
So parents add these posts to your collection to help you and your player along the recruiting trail.
quote:His thoughts echo those of many college baseball players, who for one reason or another decide that the game at the college level is not as enjoyable as they thought it would be. At times, high attrition may be less a symptom of a problematic program than of the uncertainty that accompanies young men who are unsure of what they really want in life. What sounds good in theory doesn't always translate into a wonderful, fairy-tale situation, no matter how much planning and research goes into it beforehand.
That is a good point.Sometimes players leaving is just that THEY themselves wanted to do and has nothing to do with the program.
I don't think the posts are too negative.During rehab this summer at home, my sons PT asked him what it was like to play high level college ball, my son replied that it was a grind.
The PT then asked him BUT do you LOVE it, in which my son said I STILL love it.
The key is the player has to LOVE it, it can not be forced upon them by parents or coaches.Sometimes as stated above and in the article players realize they just dont want to devote that much time to it.
Which ever direction the main focus for most of our sons should be to be working towards a degree, become men of honor and character, and find themselves in this process.
In finding themselves some realize baseball is over now, I bet none of them regret the wonderful things baseball taught them about life, and the many friendships and great times they had playing the game.
It just became not so much fun for some, it became a job and they want to try other things.Its just a progression in life they will all make eventually.
I am with Fan 100% on this topic and I loved her post. The bottom line is the player has to love it. And when I say love it I mean LOVE it. I am an not talking about just love playing the game. Or love being in the spotlight or wearing the jersey. I mean love the journey. Love the smell of the grass. Love the sweat. Love the pain. Love the fear. Embrace everything about the game.
How can you love the pain? How can you love the fear? How can you love things that others shy away from or run from? Because that fear drives you to succeed. That pain is something he knows he must defeat in order to reach his goals. Loving the game does not mean he loves to play the games. Loving the game means you love everything that takes you to the game and keeps you driving to succeed in the game.
Sure there are times every player has doubts. Sure there are times when every player wonders is it really worth it. And then the LOVE kicks back in and they have no doubts. If you only love it when your playing the actual game and you only love it when you are on top you will be done when you are not in the line up or struggling at the game or suffer an injury , etc.
Its no different than any relationship we have in life. Times are not always great. In fact many times the bad times can last way longer than the good. But the love of those good times , the love of just being in the game keeps you going and keeps you pushing forward.
I love the saying. "Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
If your kid does not truly love the game the reality is tough times will expose that. If he does then they will only serve to light a fire that will burn inside of him and allow him to overcome. Why? Because they love the game.
How can you love the pain? How can you love the fear? How can you love things that others shy away from or run from? Because that fear drives you to succeed. That pain is something he knows he must defeat in order to reach his goals. Loving the game does not mean he loves to play the games. Loving the game means you love everything that takes you to the game and keeps you driving to succeed in the game.
Sure there are times every player has doubts. Sure there are times when every player wonders is it really worth it. And then the LOVE kicks back in and they have no doubts. If you only love it when your playing the actual game and you only love it when you are on top you will be done when you are not in the line up or struggling at the game or suffer an injury , etc.
Its no different than any relationship we have in life. Times are not always great. In fact many times the bad times can last way longer than the good. But the love of those good times , the love of just being in the game keeps you going and keeps you pushing forward.
I love the saying. "Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
If your kid does not truly love the game the reality is tough times will expose that. If he does then they will only serve to light a fire that will burn inside of him and allow him to overcome. Why? Because they love the game.
Great article and great posts by Fan and Coach May.
I think that attrition in bb (or any other sport) at college has a lot to do with maturing and changing priorities, not always about falling out of love with the game.
I think that attrition in bb (or any other sport) at college has a lot to do with maturing and changing priorities, not always about falling out of love with the game.
I was just wondering, do you think there is a STRONG coorelation between being on a winning team vs. losing team and attrition?
Very good point. After reading my post I realized that I missed some very important things. And you hit on one of them "maturing and changing priorities, not always about falling out of love with the game." This is very true.
Good points TPM.Being on a losing team is hard.Long ride homes on the bus , or airplane after sometimes being swept.It does wear on the players.Personally I would not want my son to leave a school just because they aren't winning at the moment.Life isnt always about being on the winning team, but how you deal with defeat, and persevere.
CM,
I was just thinking of all those that went to play college baseball and although not playing still involved with the game, coaches, beat writers, agents, etc. They were the ones who used their scholarships to pay for their education and along teh way realized playing may not be for them, but there are many opportunities to still "remain" in the game.
I agree with CaBB, this topic should not in anyway be so negative as to sway anyone away from the pursuit of playing college ball, just to be realistic in that pursuit. My opinion is that the main purpose of going off to play college ball is to help to fund your education, not with all intentions that it will get you to the next level, that is really icing on the cake after college.
I know someone who obtained a great bb scholarship (back in the days) to play college baseball, thinking that this would lead to playing pro ball, after his first year he realized that this was not going to happen, he really couldn't devote the time needed to work hard in the classroom as well as on the field, so he took a lighter role, stayed in the game to help his parents pay for school, and pursued a career that still allowed him to be in the game today (somewhat like in the article above). I guess it was reality that he couldn't do both (though many can) and be successful at just one. That is where the priority part comes in.
I was just thinking of all those that went to play college baseball and although not playing still involved with the game, coaches, beat writers, agents, etc. They were the ones who used their scholarships to pay for their education and along teh way realized playing may not be for them, but there are many opportunities to still "remain" in the game.
I agree with CaBB, this topic should not in anyway be so negative as to sway anyone away from the pursuit of playing college ball, just to be realistic in that pursuit. My opinion is that the main purpose of going off to play college ball is to help to fund your education, not with all intentions that it will get you to the next level, that is really icing on the cake after college.
I know someone who obtained a great bb scholarship (back in the days) to play college baseball, thinking that this would lead to playing pro ball, after his first year he realized that this was not going to happen, he really couldn't devote the time needed to work hard in the classroom as well as on the field, so he took a lighter role, stayed in the game to help his parents pay for school, and pursued a career that still allowed him to be in the game today (somewhat like in the article above). I guess it was reality that he couldn't do both (though many can) and be successful at just one. That is where the priority part comes in.
Those are great points. Many end up coaching as well. There are many ways to stay in the game outside of playing it.
Attrition occurs at all levels for many of the reasons listed above by the various posters. Of the 13 freshman who entered my son's D2 program two years ago, there are six left as juniors. The ones who departed left due to playing time, injuries, and fading commitment. But one left despite being a full-time starter as a freshman and sophomore. I guess it was a combination of burnout and loss of desire.
It's tough at all levels. I also see a fair amount of attrition at the big-time D1 program in my backyard. The challenges are tough for all of these kids, and they don't ease up between class, studying, conditioning, lifting, practices and games. It's not for everyone. But the grind also teaches them that everything isn't always going to be fun. And that if they want to be successful at anything, they have to keep working at it.
For those that stick it out, the rewards are there. Kids learn a lot about commitment to a common goal, teamwork, getting along with others, knowing when to have fun and when to get serious, time management, hard work, and school pride. Those are all skills that can last a lifetime both in the workplace and in their home lives. Plus, as long as they still love it, they get to play the greatest game ever invented.
Some guys give up their uniforms because they know it's time for them. Some have to get their uniforms torn off them before they'll walk away. There's no right or wrong in either. It simply reflects the choices they'll make throughout the rest of their lives.
It's tough at all levels. I also see a fair amount of attrition at the big-time D1 program in my backyard. The challenges are tough for all of these kids, and they don't ease up between class, studying, conditioning, lifting, practices and games. It's not for everyone. But the grind also teaches them that everything isn't always going to be fun. And that if they want to be successful at anything, they have to keep working at it.
For those that stick it out, the rewards are there. Kids learn a lot about commitment to a common goal, teamwork, getting along with others, knowing when to have fun and when to get serious, time management, hard work, and school pride. Those are all skills that can last a lifetime both in the workplace and in their home lives. Plus, as long as they still love it, they get to play the greatest game ever invented.
Some guys give up their uniforms because they know it's time for them. Some have to get their uniforms torn off them before they'll walk away. There's no right or wrong in either. It simply reflects the choices they'll make throughout the rest of their lives.
I believe you would find a similar attrition rate at the high school level. At my son's HS, each year, the graduating senior class still playing varsity baseball might be between 6 - 12 players - from a group of 22+ Frosh players when that class originally entered high school.
Being from the Northwest My son played with Brady who is a great kid and I totally understand where he is coming from.
But there has been alot of this going on in the northwest alot of kids are going off to these D-1 schools and returning a year later to attend a local JC or not playing at all.
They need to go where there is not dismal weather they have been stuck in this grey dark area for their entire life. I have told my son to go where there is some sunshine and dont get stuck on the D-1 thinking there are a ton of other schools like D-2 D-3 and NAIA that will be just as good for him.
It does not matter where you play if you are good enough they will find you. Most parents that think that their kid is a D-1 guy dont stop and think how he will react to this situation or how he will pay back his loans when he is done with school. Ask your kid what is the most important criteria for school? I ask this of my son his Freshman year he said D-1 ( he is a D-1 player) now after 3 years and a recruiting process that is alot of coaches blowing smoke up your *** to get you to come to their camp his answer is acedemic fit and how much he will have to pay back when he graduates.
These kids are making one of the biggest decisions of their life at 17 educate them so they can make an informed decision.
But there has been alot of this going on in the northwest alot of kids are going off to these D-1 schools and returning a year later to attend a local JC or not playing at all.
They need to go where there is not dismal weather they have been stuck in this grey dark area for their entire life. I have told my son to go where there is some sunshine and dont get stuck on the D-1 thinking there are a ton of other schools like D-2 D-3 and NAIA that will be just as good for him.
It does not matter where you play if you are good enough they will find you. Most parents that think that their kid is a D-1 guy dont stop and think how he will react to this situation or how he will pay back his loans when he is done with school. Ask your kid what is the most important criteria for school? I ask this of my son his Freshman year he said D-1 ( he is a D-1 player) now after 3 years and a recruiting process that is alot of coaches blowing smoke up your *** to get you to come to their camp his answer is acedemic fit and how much he will have to pay back when he graduates.
These kids are making one of the biggest decisions of their life at 17 educate them so they can make an informed decision.
Love these posts. For a lot of the reasons listed above, I've seen several players, including my son choose the D3 route even though they were recruited higher. They still have to practice hard, but my son realized there was something attractive to the fact that coaches have to work around your classes at D3. If you have a test, you take it then try to make the game, not vice versa. And the time commitment, while still substantial, is significantly less than his friends playing at the d1 level.
As he's finding out this semester, his homework load is pretty significant, Calculus, Physics, Business, Critical thinking, etc.,. He couldn't do it all on a D1 or D2 schedule--classes would have to be sacrificed for practice. All the D2 coaches that recruited him said the same thing, expect to graduate in 5 yrs., while the D3's said, expect to graduate in 4 yrs. That's a pretty significant savings.
It seems to me, that for far too many kids, if you don't have the d1 or d2 status, then they don't want to play. So they end up with too severe a time commitment. When what they really wanted was to play ball with a serious but not overwhelming commitment. One that allows them to have a college experience in addition to baseball and studying. Perhaps we parents and HS coaches can help out by checking our pride more often, and instead really find out what our sons/players need and help steer them to the program where they will be happy, rather than to the program that strokes all of our egos.
As he's finding out this semester, his homework load is pretty significant, Calculus, Physics, Business, Critical thinking, etc.,. He couldn't do it all on a D1 or D2 schedule--classes would have to be sacrificed for practice. All the D2 coaches that recruited him said the same thing, expect to graduate in 5 yrs., while the D3's said, expect to graduate in 4 yrs. That's a pretty significant savings.
It seems to me, that for far too many kids, if you don't have the d1 or d2 status, then they don't want to play. So they end up with too severe a time commitment. When what they really wanted was to play ball with a serious but not overwhelming commitment. One that allows them to have a college experience in addition to baseball and studying. Perhaps we parents and HS coaches can help out by checking our pride more often, and instead really find out what our sons/players need and help steer them to the program where they will be happy, rather than to the program that strokes all of our egos.
Jones Fan,
Congrats to your son starting at BSC and choosing to compete in SCAC baseball.
Looking at things from where your son is situated, I can understand your views and post.
However, from our experience, attrition is a very significant issue and fact of life at every level of college baseball, including DIII. Historically, even the best programs have attrition.
In the SCAC, some is due to the rigorous academic standards to remain eligible or remain in school.
Some will end up being due to the demands in the classroom.
Some will involve a bit of the first two combined with playing time issues.
Some will involve other personal preferences.
From experience, the experience of DIII baseball in the SCAC becomes manifest in the Spring with the travel combined with academics, combined with mid-week games/night games/doubleheaders on Tuesdays, etc.
If the student/athlete wants to graduate in 4 years, the demands in the classroom, on the field, and in buses pretty quickly tells them that this element:
"One that allows them to have a college experience in addition to baseball and studying"
or the baseball element needs to be compromised.
It can and is done all the time by students who excel academically and on the field.
Our son's experience and our observations are that it isn't easier than DI.
It is less games compacted into shorter time frames combined with rigorous classroom aspects complicated by major travel time, especially for the top teams that compete in the SCAC tournament just as finals approach.
Congrats to your son starting at BSC and choosing to compete in SCAC baseball.
Looking at things from where your son is situated, I can understand your views and post.
However, from our experience, attrition is a very significant issue and fact of life at every level of college baseball, including DIII. Historically, even the best programs have attrition.
In the SCAC, some is due to the rigorous academic standards to remain eligible or remain in school.
Some will end up being due to the demands in the classroom.
Some will involve a bit of the first two combined with playing time issues.
Some will involve other personal preferences.
From experience, the experience of DIII baseball in the SCAC becomes manifest in the Spring with the travel combined with academics, combined with mid-week games/night games/doubleheaders on Tuesdays, etc.
If the student/athlete wants to graduate in 4 years, the demands in the classroom, on the field, and in buses pretty quickly tells them that this element:
"One that allows them to have a college experience in addition to baseball and studying"
or the baseball element needs to be compromised.
It can and is done all the time by students who excel academically and on the field.
Our son's experience and our observations are that it isn't easier than DI.
It is less games compacted into shorter time frames combined with rigorous classroom aspects complicated by major travel time, especially for the top teams that compete in the SCAC tournament just as finals approach.
Thanks for the congrats Infield Dad.
I agree that in the spring, baseball and school will take up all of his time. He knows that as well and is not bothered by it. His high school life was pretty much the same and he really wouldn't have it any other way. I think the difference in his eyes, and mine, was found in the fall. His friends who are playing at D1 are practicing much longer every day and many more days a week. Coaches at D2's we visited had all "heard of a player that graduated on time" but many never knew one. Many were also steering him to easier majors because their fall and spring schedules were so rigorous.
It seemed to him from his friends who played D3 and other folks that we talked on this site, that the schedule at D3 is much more conducive to getting a good degree. Most of the D3 schools we went to and read about, also seemed to make a strong point that academics were emphasized over athletics, while at many of the higher level schools it was obvious that the reverse was true. So far at his school, this is his experience, and he is in the middle of their fall practice schedule. Study, classes and baseball take up a lot of time. But there is time on the weekend to do other things.
I agree that in the spring, baseball and school will take up all of his time. He knows that as well and is not bothered by it. His high school life was pretty much the same and he really wouldn't have it any other way. I think the difference in his eyes, and mine, was found in the fall. His friends who are playing at D1 are practicing much longer every day and many more days a week. Coaches at D2's we visited had all "heard of a player that graduated on time" but many never knew one. Many were also steering him to easier majors because their fall and spring schedules were so rigorous.
It seemed to him from his friends who played D3 and other folks that we talked on this site, that the schedule at D3 is much more conducive to getting a good degree. Most of the D3 schools we went to and read about, also seemed to make a strong point that academics were emphasized over athletics, while at many of the higher level schools it was obvious that the reverse was true. So far at his school, this is his experience, and he is in the middle of their fall practice schedule. Study, classes and baseball take up a lot of time. But there is time on the weekend to do other things.