Player can't get in the game.

fan - welcome to the hsbbweb!

The problem is not for you to solve imho.

I would not encourage your son to do any talking. Let his attitude, his effort, and his play do all the talking for him. Be the hardest worker on the team. Be the guy who is more concerned about the team than himself. Be the guy who is the first to show up and the last to leave. Be the guy who prepares for that one opportunity. Be the guy who is ready when his number is finally called.

He cannot control a coach's decison. All he can control is his attitude and effort. Let that do all the talking while keeping his mouth (and yours) closed.

I agree with Cleveland Dad. Encourage your son to be the "team" player. Hustle during practice. Good attitude and effort, and be "ready" when his number is called.

It's not really your problem to solve. I would think that a coach of a freshman team would be concentrating on skill development of all players and not be so concerned about winning. Winning is the goal of varsity, not freshman or JV.

I'm on board with CD's response. My add: Paid instructors are always enthusiastic regarding potential. It keeps the client opening the wallet.

There is a similar thread from the last day or two with the same question.

As a parent, under no circumstances should you talk to the coach, assistant, AD or water boy.

As others have said have your son's work ethic do the talking, and if his busting butt 120% doesn't get him some PT, he should ask the coach (respectfully, very important) what skills he needs to improve on to get playing time.

Thanks for all the reply's. As a coach myself, that is the same advice I would give to someone else. Same things I told my older son. Problem is it didn't work with him, and I don't want to see the same thing happen again.

The problem with that approach is that it assumes that the player up to this point hasn't been doing those things.

This a kid who has worked his butt off for the past couple of years to prepare. Pitched 3 days a week all winter. The past two months of tryouts and practice he has thrown about 50 pitches with his team. (He made the team as a pitcher.)

As far as his pitching coach, I have considered the bs factor, but this guy turns away players who want lessons, and could probably make a lot more off of other players if he chose to.

Lets say for the sake of discussion that there is another reason that's no so pure for who the coach is playing. What then?

quote:

I've been through this already with an older son, and it ended badly. I tried every approach I could think of, but couldn't solve the problem.

was this at the same School?

Its good that your son has worked that hard, every player needs to.

One thing Ive learned about baseball is passion hard work etc don't equal success.

Think of all the talented players in the minor leagues they bust their butts for yrs and they don't all get playing time.

He could ask the coach what he needs to work on to improve his game or for an chance to prove him self.

My older son played at the same school

quote:

Originally posted by fan4445:
Thanks for all the reply's. As a coach myself, that is the same advice I would give to someone else. Same things I told my older son. Problem is it didn't work with him, and I don't want to see the same thing happen again.

The problem with that approach is that it assumes that the player up to this point hasn't been doing those things.

This a kid who has worked his butt off for the past couple of years to prepare. Pitched 3 days a week all winter. The past two months of tryouts and practice he has thrown about 50 pitches with his team. (He made the team as a pitcher.)

As far as his pitching coach, I have considered the bs factor, but this guy turns away players who want lessons, and could probably make a lot more off of other players if he chose to.

Lets say for the sake of discussion that there is another reason that's no so pure for who the coach is playing. What then?

You have been given some good advice.
Your son is a freshman, it's not important if he is not getting in the pitching work you feel he deserves, in fact at this point, less may be better (you did say he pitched 3 days a week in winter). Just be prepared as mentioned. Whatever those other reasons, let it go, because it makes no difference.

And yes, just because he worked his butt off doesn't mean he is better than anyone else (other than in a parents opinion).

Make arrangement for him to play this summer, it will be much more productive for him in the long run.

Is it me or is this an ongoing theme these days, just posed differently in different topics?

Your Son is a freshman and made the team as a pitcher. How many other pitchers are on the roster and are they in a rotation? Is your son a starter, closer, or just the all around guy that mops up an inning or two when the other pitchers are in trouble? Does the coach DH for his pitchers, if not how is your Son's bat? There could be many reasons. Always refrain from questioning the coach's lineup. I would have your Son approach the coach (after a practice, not game day) and ask this question - "hey coach, what do you think I should improve on". **Side Note** This approach will backfire if the player does anything other than listen once the coach speaks.

Let's assume all you say is true for a moment. He works hard has good attitude and is better than most others on the team, and still does not play. It happens all the time, how many great players are passed on by coaches and how many poor players are drafted and bust. Coaches get it wrong sometimes. The freshman coach is not the varsity coach and he will likely be done with the current coach at the end of this year. your son plays a sport where summer club ball is vastly more important than school ball. Put him on a summer team where he wanted. If your thinking of moving schools remember he will spend 95 percent of his high school time off of the diamond.

Yup, focus on summer ball and other development to keep him progressing and staying sharp. Same goes for the rest of his HS career assuming the JV and/or V coaches follow suit.

You can't change the coaches mind, you can't move, maybe you can send him to a neighboring community school (??), but for the most part you're stuck with this school and whatever they want to do with your son.

I experienced this first hand in HS, I was a decent player but got no development or playing time in HS. What I know I've learned by watching games, reading, and the parallels of experience from softball. I still don't forgive my HS coach (who was the JV coach and moved to V along with me) that was a "brownie hound" and didn't give the 11-15 players on the roster much playing time at all. I had the heart and desire to play then and I still do at +40. It took compounding minor injuries to make me hang up the cleats with softball.

Bottom line is focus on what you can control, and that isn't the coach, the AD, or anyone that can influence your son's PT. You can control getting him reps, even if it's you throwing pitches or hitting him fungos, get him on a summer team, etc.

It is unfortunate that HS coaches (and all < professional coaches) need to be this way but it will never change.

Control what you can, move past what you cannot.

Aside from moving to another school district with the hopes that coach thinks differently , the only thing he can do is be ready when de gets his shot and make the most of it. Some players are gonna have to do more than others to prove their worth. That's just the way it is. Continue to play summer ball and work in the offseason on his game. No sense going nuts over it because it's up to the kid to take control of what he can and not worry about what he can't control. And yes if there's an issue of playing time or finding out from the coach what he needs to do to comPete for playing time, then HE has to talk to the HC. If the parent does it it'll only make the kid look like a baby instead of a teenager learning to fight his own battles.

I understand your frustration. Just remember that this is the first year, but he needs to be ready for when that opportunity comes.

My son went through this at the beginning of his first year on Varsity last year where over half the team had moved up from JV the previous year. He was upset because he could not figure out his role on the team and was just sitting on the bench. During a game that the team was losing badly, he was put in to pitch and shut the other team down for four innings. Things really changed after that and he was used more often. This year, he has the most innings and has pitched in all three conference games (so far).

Tell him to hang in there, keep working hard, and make the most of your travel season. I know one thing from having gone through this experience, my son now chooses "fight" rather than "flight" which will prepare him for the being the low guy on the roster at college next year. (Don't tell him that "low guy" stuff because he is working hard towards making the starting rotation and knows that it won't be handed to him.)

It's like a bad flashback for me, but worse this time because this kid DOES all the extra stuff he can. Runs extra laps, picks up gear, practices after practice.

His bat is excellent, always been a slugger.

Excellent glove and arm (plays 3rd or 1st when not pitching.)

The thing that really concerns me, is that he hasn't pitched at all in a game.

Looks like there are 4-5 players who are going to play every inning. with a 21 man roster, it doesn't leave much playing time for the rest.

That's what I don't understand. They are saying that certain kids are starters. but when they don't start at their normal position, coach puts them where they aren't as good as others to keep them in the lineup.

I'm starting to doubt the value of team sports. Is it the best way to become a baseball player to keep quite and let people walk on you so someday when everyone else moves up or is injured you get to play?

quote:

Originally posted by fan4445:
It's like a bad flashback for me, but worse this time because this kid DOES all the extra stuff he can. Runs extra laps, picks up gear, practices after practice.

His bat is excellent, always been a slugger.

Excellent glove and arm (plays 3rd or 1st when not pitching.)

Wow, I fell for this hook line and sinker, I got the impression your son was just sitting on the bench.

This is about what YOU think he should be doing, and because he isn't you feel that he is being treated unfairly?

Maybe there is a strong correlation between your first son's experience and this one. Many times parents mess things up.

I would follow the advice given as to the question you asked. Keep it all to yourself, most of all sit back and enjoy the moments, even if you don't agree.

Keep in mind this is just a game, and your son is only a freshman, he's got a long way to go to prove he deserves to be where you think he should.

perhaps the boys talent is good enough to get him roster spot but not quite good enough to get on the field

quote:

Is it me or is this an ongoing theme these days, just posed differently in different topics?

If you enjoy these threads hit the youth sports boards June 15th, the day LL all-stars are announced and Lil Jr didn't make it.

fan ... Life isn't always fair.

Story 1) A friend of mine was AAA Player of the Year. But the Yankees kept signing free agents. When the Yankees tried to acquire Rod Carew from the Twins, his agent told him when the deal goes through he'll be starting in left for the Twins. The deal fell through when the Yankees wouldn't trade him.

He was called up in September. At the airport in Columbus he got out of his car and sprained his ankle in a pothole. He never got to NY. He went back to Columbus and had another great year in AAA. Remember, had he been traded he would be starting in the majors. At the end of the season the Yankees told him to come up as soon as the AAA playoffs were over. He broke his wrist getting hit by a pitch. He never fully recovered. He was out of baseball in two more years.

Story 2) A friend's son hit's .309 with 24 homers between AA and AAA. Another player hitting .240 was called up to the Mets. There were two million reasons why the .240 hitter was called up.

A year later he's on fire in spring training. A week before the end of spring training the manager calls him in to tell him while he'll stay with the team until the end of spring training he's being sent to AAA. He was told he would be an early call up given there are injuries and slumps. As he was about to head for the airport to catch up with his AAA team, after playing in the Marlins stadium the GM tells him he's been released. He's now in his 8th year of AAA baseball because he loves the game.

And you're worried about a kid not getting playing time his freshman year of high school? I'm sure there are many posters on this board who could match the stories I just told. But there are thousands of high school kids with parents believing they are not getting a fair shot.

My advice is let it play out through soph year. If your son is genuinely one of the top five players in his class he will eventually shine through.

fan4445 - your last post definitely sheds more light on the subject. I'm gathering that your son IS getting playing time, just not where YOU want him to play. One step at a time. He needs to be a TEAM player - that is playing wherever is BEST for the TEAM. If playing 3rd or 1st is better for the TEAM then so be it. Your original post made it sound like he wasn't getting ANY playing time.

Little story for you. My son became the starting catcher for the varsity his sophomore year. He is also a very good utility player - he has literally played every position in travel ball. Come his junior year he ends up at 3rd base for all but one game. Why? The TEAM needed his glove at 3B. The catcher that replaced him wasn't better (weaker arm - all other aspects they were pretty much equal). At first I wasn't too happy about this and did talk to the coach in calm matter. In the end my son told the coach, he'd play wherever the TEAM needed him. It worked out well in the end - my son was named to 1st Team All District as the top rated 3B in the area. He wouldn't have earned that at catcher.

This year he is a senior and is at 1B. Again, it's where he best fits in for the TEAM. And they are off to a great start this year - undefeated to date.

You may not agree with what the coach is doing, but unless there are "real" issues, then it would be best to sit back and enjoy watching your son play.

quote:

Originally posted by fan4445:
That's what I don't understand. They are saying that certain kids are starters. but when they don't start at their normal position, coach puts them where they aren't as good as others to keep them in the lineup.

The best 9 bats usually start the game. I can hide a mediocre glove somewhere out there, but I cant hide a mediocre bat...

Like you said - to keep them IN the lineup.

quote:

"Looks like there are 4-5 players who are going to play every inning. with a 21 man roster, it doesn't leave much playing time for the rest.

That's what I don't understand. They are saying that certain kids are starters. but when they don't start at their normal position, coach puts them where they aren't as good as others to keep them in the lineup."

I agree completely with what FoxDad and bballdad2016 have said. There are as many reasons for why certain players play more in certain spots than others as there are players. You need to consider not just where your son plays best, but the other kids who show the most potential to help the team (with either the bat, the glove, or both) as well. It is very common for kids not to play their "best position" for many different reasons.

I will use my son as an example. He too is a freshman, though he is currently playing JV for a 4A school. like your son's team, they have a long roster, and 5-6 kids (fortunately, including my son - but the main reason for that, as bballdad2016 sAid, is because he leads the team in most hitting categories) play every game. His primary position, other than RHP, is 3B/SS, but he hasn't seen a single inning at those positions or any other INF position, even though IMO he is a better infielder at any position than the regular starters there. Why? Because he also catches, and the gap between his ability at catcher and the next best option there is FAR greater than any gap in ability between my son and any of the infield starters at those infield positions. So, when he is not pitching, he catches, because that is what is best for his team. Come summer ball, he will probably still catch some, but will likely play primarily 3B and pitch. And if I had MY preference, he would be pushed in both JV ball and summer ball to get better as an outfielder, because increased versatility can only help him fit in in the future, depending on what the TEAM needs then.

I would focus on working as hard as possible in practice and whenever given a chance to play (regardless of where) to shine and hopefully open some eyes. As others have said, if he is one of the 4-5 best kids in his class, he will eventually rise to a position of more prominence with the team. If it takes some time, so be it - focus on playing well in summer ball and continuing with his training with what sounds like a good instructor your son works well with.

If your son needs clarification of his role with the team or what he needs to do to get more opportunities to play more desired positions, let your son seek that clarification on his own.

quote:

"Lets say for the sake of discussion that there is another reason that's no so pure for who the coach is playing. What then?"

Are you implying there is a DaddyBall issue in play here?

If so, that IS a bit more worrisome to me, but the advice remains the same. The Frosh coach won't always be his coach and very likely cannot protect his son's playing time after this year. Bide your time, work hard, remain a team player, and things should end up OK if your son is the player you say he is.

I don't think that it matters what we say, he's been through this before, so he should understand.

As far as stories that we have been through or seen others go through, people like this really don't care about anyone elses player's journey, just their own.

JMO.

quote:

- Baseball was made for kids, and grown-ups only screw it up. ~Bob Lemon

This is the reason my older son quit the game. He hated what adults did to it.

You guys are right about a lot of things, and especially that I am more frustrated than my son. Unfortunately, I'm realizing that I used up all my patience when my older some played.

I guess the only thing to do is be patient and keep a good attitude.

I just might have to stay away from the ball field.

quote:

Originally posted by fan4445:

I just might have to stay away from the ball field.

I think you may have just solved your own riddle. Now put it to action.

Boo hoo. Tell your kid to be better on the bump.

And you're right about adults screwing it up. But remember, parents are adults, too.

quote:

Originally posted by fan4445:
I just might have to stay away from the ball field.

You've just struck whine. It's one thing to look for advice. There's a lot of experience on the board. But it's another thing to strike whine. There are son's of posters on this board who have been through a lot larger obstacles than not getting playing time as a freshman and preservered.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the issue may be your son's 'private' coach. A good many high school coaches resent hearing about how Johnny is so great, and that he goes to see such and such 'guru' who has made him so awesome. I've seen more than a few kids buried because their HS coach didn't want to deal with the spectre of the guru interfering with 'his' player.

Bottom line, nothing good can come from any involvement on your part. Let you kid deal with it. And remember, it ONLY freshman ball. Nobody will remember this year unless he doesn't play beyond this level.

quote:

that he goes to see such and such 'guru' who has made him so awesome

My son started his junior year 14-16. When his high school coach asked what changed my son told him about a winter full of hard work with his awesome hitting coach. His high school coach froze up. He detests the person from years ago. My son said the high school coach never talked hitting with him again.

When my son was coming off an injury senior year he had three weeks from chucking the sling to opening day. He spent twice a week with his hitting coach after high school practice. The high school ooach walked in on them at an indoor facility and just glared.

Fan4445

I just your last post last sentence "I just might have to stay away from the field"

Not something I would recommend....their baseball careers go quickly and take differents paths along the way...you have to learn to enjoy each stage

I just got back from my son's college weekend series and had some time to think about his first year playing college ball. Going from watching him pitch and play first base in high school ....to being excited and happy about him getting three innings of relief work against a top rated team in weekend series in college.

Made me think about watching him play in high school..and then I read your post....and to think that I might have decided to stay away from a baseball field because he was not getting used the way I thought he was suppose to be used and miss any game because of that...it made me shudder...it does all go too fast..you have gotten a lot of good advice I won't repeat it....just ask you too think twice of staying away from the field?..you never know with freshman ball....what if he gets in a game and gets the game winning hit or strikes out the side to get a save and you missed it because you stayed away for the reasons you have stated.

I appreciate everyone's advice.

I didn't mean to start whining. Just frustrated.

Like I said in my original post I was really looking for advice, not venting.

To say a players freshman year isn't important is silly. It's important to him.

Seems like kid's already doing things the right way, just needs to keep doing them and be patient.

But freshman "year" is really like 2 months and likely only about 1/3 of the games he can play from Spring-Summer-Fall.

If he works hard in those other 2 seasons and gets good enough, then he'll eventually play varsity. If not, then try to enjoy the other two seasons along the way.

fan4445 -

I did stay away from the field one year when my son was not getting any playing time (school "club" team was really daddy ball and my son played a whole 8 innings the entire season). Not really my proudest moment, but it was how I dealt with it. My son actually handled that year a lot better than me and I am proud of him for that.

He continues to work hard to prove himself. Even though he is the anchor of the pitching staff, he is still not satisfied with how he is throwing. He is also working on breaking into the starting line-up on the field as he believes that he can compete with the other two guys at his position. In this case, it is like what others have said, the top 8 hitters will be on the field. He is looking for that opportunity (hopefully, another Spring Break "break through" game like last year with pitching).

Just wanted to say that you need to keep encouraging your son to improve and be ready. Do your best to hide your frustration. This is a learning experience for both of you and just the beginning. My mantra with my son is: "It's not how you start, but how you finish."

fan4445

My son's Freshman year was played at first base. He really wanted to pitch or play outfield, but the best position for the team, was for him to play first. Nobody really thought he would play first later in JV or varsity, he never projected to be tall enough or hit quite well enough, but for that team he was the best defensive first baseman they had and that was what the team needed. Thia also happened to him in middle school.

He was able to pitch some but not enough for our or his liking. We kept our mouth shut and made sure he got on a summer team that wanted him as a pitcher and out fielder so he could continue to work on the positions he wanted to play.

Fast forward to junior and senior year and he was playing center field and was the second or third pitcher in the rotation. He was the starting pitcher in the district championship his junior year. He now is a freshman in college and is in the starting rotation for the conference games.

Do you think anybody cares now that he did not pitch much as a freshman and was a first baseman. No they don't.

I am sure your son will work hard and do whats best for the TEAM. Enjoy the ride, enjoy every moment he does get to play.

fan4445

I can tell you from experience from this week. My son is on the JV team and did not get to play Freshman baseball due to breaking his arm in his Final Freshman wrestling match for the championship. Needless to say he loves baseball and does not get hardly any playing time at all. So my wife calls the Varsity coach yesterday and he seem to be genually concerned about what the coach was doing and said he was going to check the books. Today my 10th grade son gets sent down to the freshman team to sit the bench for the 1 3 innings. They did put him at 2nd base and right before the team got Mercied my boy got up and got a base hit stole 2 base and was knocked in on an RBI for the 1st run of the game. Now I dont know if its legal for him to be playing on the Freshman team being a sophomore but whatever, he got to play. Now the JV coach is PO'ed at him and treats him like **** though! Dont say nothing Just tell your kid to show the coach what he's got.

.

Welcome aboard the HSBBW GsKaWa. Your son, and hopefully the Varsity coach, should be satisfied that your son made the most of it when he was finally given an opportunity. Tell him to keep his head up...if he's a top notch wrestler I know he's a tough kid!



.

TPM , I swear this is not me....

quote:

Originally posted by GsKaWa:
fan4445

I can tell you from experience from this week. My son is on the JV team and did not get to play Freshman baseball due to breaking his arm in his Final Freshman wrestling match for the championship. Needless to say he loves baseball and does not get hardly any playing time at all. So my wife calls the Varsity coach yesterday and he seem to be genually concerned about what the coach was doing and said he was going to check the books. Today my 10th grade son gets sent down to the freshman team to sit the bench for the 1 3 innings. They did put him at 2nd base and right before the team got Mercied my boy got up and got a base hit stole 2 base and was knocked in on an RBI for the 1st run of the game. Now I dont know if its legal for him to be playing on the Freshman team being a sophomore but whatever, he got to play. Now the JV coach is PO'ed at him and treats him like **** though! Dont say nothing Just tell your kid to show the coach what he's got.

The best way to make a kid look bad and tick off a coach is have mommy call on behalf of a player. The second worst thing to do is have daddy call. The right thing in high school is have a kid stand up for himself. By high school a parents only involvement should be prepping the kid for the conversation with the coach.

No kidding the JV coach is ticked. That buzz cut through the middle of his head is where mommy bypassed him right to the head coach (not that she should have made any contact). Good luck with playing time the rest of the year.

Getting sent down to the freshman team as a soph was not to please mommy. It was to tell the kid to stand up for himself. If your son was unhappy with his playing time he should have asked the coach what he needs to improve to get more playing time.

Is my use of the word "mommy" making the point? When my son was in high school three mommies of freshman players complained about playing time to the AD. The kids were cut the following year. Less talented players with parents who didn't interfere made JV's.

My Freshman son hasn't pitched an inning with his Freshman team. He has had lessons and training since he was nine. He has been the number 1 or number 2 pitcher on every single team he has been on since he was eight years old.

What is doing though is playing the starting second base position and has done that in every single game, except one, where he was the starting shortstop. He has played all but one and a half innings so far this year.

If you kid is playing, then be excited because he is playing. Would I like to see my kid on the mound? Sure would but if he is helping the team more by being a vaccuum cleaner in the middle infield then I am happy for him. If your kid isn't pitching but is playing then guess what, he is playing and I suspect the problem is more yours than his.

I asked my son if it bothered him that he isn't pitching. He said maybe a little but if he is the full time second baseman he doesn't want to give that up just in case the backup all of a sudden does something amazing to replace him.