Here is another example of taking advantage of an opportunity. In my previous post, I explained about my son taking advantage of a pitching opportunity during their Spring Break trip last year. This year, we talked about a "hitting" break through during the trip.
An hour before the home run derby, his coach asked if he wanted to do it. The coach needed a second player on the team in the derby and was trying to use his pitchers so he didn't screw up anyone's swing. My son went out and won the derby! He then ended up playing every inning of the tournament, playing 3rd base when he wasn't pitching. He knows that he will have to earn that position every day but all he wanted was a chance and got it.
Like I said before, make sure your son keeps working and is ready to make the most of any opportunity he is given.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:The best way to make a kid look bad and tick off a coach is have mommy call on behalf of a player. The second worst thing to do is have daddy call. The right thing in high school is have a kid stand up for himself. By high school a parents only involvement should be prepping the kid for the conversation with the coach.quote:Originally posted by GsKaWa:
fan4445
I can tell you from experience from this week. My son is on the JV team and did not get to play Freshman baseball due to breaking his arm in his Final Freshman wrestling match for the championship. Needless to say he loves baseball and does not get hardly any playing time at all. So my wife calls the Varsity coach yesterday and he seem to be genually concerned about what the coach was doing and said he was going to check the books. Today my 10th grade son gets sent down to the freshman team to sit the bench for the 1 3 innings. They did put him at 2nd base and right before the team got Mercied my boy got up and got a base hit stole 2 base and was knocked in on an RBI for the 1st run of the game. Now I dont know if its legal for him to be playing on the Freshman team being a sophomore but whatever, he got to play. Now the JV coach is PO'ed at him and treats him like **** though! Dont say nothing Just tell your kid to show the coach what he's got.
No kidding the JV coach is ticked. That buzz cut through the middle of his head is where mommy bypassed him right to the head coach (not that she should have made any contact). Good luck with playing time the rest of the year.
Getting sent down to the freshman team as a soph was not to please mommy. It was to tell the kid to stand up for himself. If your son was unhappy with his playing time he should have asked the coach what he needs to improve to get more playing time.
Is my use of the word "mommy" making the point? When my son was in high school three mommies of freshman players complained about playing time to the AD. The kids were cut the following year. Less talented players with parents who didn't interfere made JV's.
Your an angry dude arn't you? LOL But your right about not talking to the coach and thats why I didn't. Your right, the boys "MOMMY" did and you know what, regardless of where he is playing he is getting more time! LOL
I told my kid before he even tried out for the team. If you work hard and do what your supposed to do you'll get what you deserve. He used to think that because he was my kid he should've gotten better treatment as a player on my team. In fact he was ridden a little harder because he plays catcher. With that said though I still wouldn't talk to the coach. I would talk to your kid and if he needs to better his skills then the parent should take him to the park and help him out! It only takes minimal effort!
I'm not angry. I'm not a dude. Kids use the word dude. I'm a mature adult. It appears to me you're lashing out against people with experience because you're not hearing what you want to hear.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
I'm not angry. I'm not a dude. Kids use the word dude. I'm a mature adult. It appears to me you're lashing out against people with experience because you're not hearing what you want to hear.
I appologize dude. I am not lashing. And I've herd what you've said. My opinion is that your wrong your opinion is that my sons MOMMY is wrong.
Good luck in the future!
quote:I appologize dude. I am not lashing. And I've herd what you've said. My opinion is that your wrong your opinion is that my sons MOMMY is wrong.
If you are going to sling insults towards long time contributors on the board, and you want to be viewed as rationale, you may want to at least use proper English.
In your sentence "I've herd what you said" the correct choice would be "heard"(as in I hear you) not "herd" (as in a group of cattle). Additionally, your other statement; "my opinion is that your wrong" would have been correct had you used the contraction for you are (you're).
No offense meant DUDE just trying to help.
And he's missing a period and an apostrophe too. 
GsKaWa- When people give you advice, don't accuse them of being wrong. Whether they have a million posts here or it's their first, they're trying to help you. A little respect goes a long way.
Lashing out will serve no purpose. RJM has rubbed me the wrong way plenty of times. I've rubbed him the wrong way too, plenty of times. We've discussed it...plenty of times. He and I both respect each other for our opinions and our knowledge. Just because we disagree sometimes doesn't mean we can't coexist in a beneficial manner. Immaturely slinging insults (good terminology, Prime9) will serve no purpose in coming to a respectable happy medium.
That's just some advice from me. I hope you don't accuse me of being wrong.
Lashing out will serve no purpose. RJM has rubbed me the wrong way plenty of times. I've rubbed him the wrong way too, plenty of times. We've discussed it...plenty of times. He and I both respect each other for our opinions and our knowledge. Just because we disagree sometimes doesn't mean we can't coexist in a beneficial manner. Immaturely slinging insults (good terminology, Prime9) will serve no purpose in coming to a respectable happy medium.
That's just some advice from me. I hope you don't accuse me of being wrong.
quote:Originally posted by Prime9:
If you are going to sling insults towards long time contributors on the board, and you want to be viewed as rationale, you may want to at least use proper English.
No offense meant DUDE just trying to help.
Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! Nice usage/spelling error while smacking someone else for their own syntax issues! I believe you mean "rational."
quote:Originally posted by fan4445:
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum and that's why I'm here, because no one will know me.
My son's main sport is baseball.
He is a high school freshman, and is on the freshman team.
The problem is his coach won't play him.
He is a pitcher, has been taking lessons for 3-4 years, from a highly respected coach, who is enthusiastic about his potential.
Although I am his father, I am realistic about his level of play, not the best player on the field, but in the top 5, much better than the kids that are playing. Hard worker, nice as pie.
This is a question, not a rant. I really want to know the best way to get my kid in the game.
Should he talk to the coach, should I talk to the coach? Should I talk to the Varsity coach? The AD?
I've been through this already with an older son, and it ended badly. I tried every approach I could think of, but couldn't solve the problem.
What is the best way to solve this problem?
Going back to the original question, "What is the best way to solve this problem?"
If your kid does get to play watch him play at that position. After the games and on the weekends, work on his craft. If there is truly a craft there and a coach takes a second from his busy schedule he will see that he can do the job, he will put him in to play. If he doesn't get the opportunity this year, he'll have 3 more years to go. Good Luck
Fan, most of the posters on this site probably never had sons that experienced the "pine syndrome" so its easy to go the tough love approach. Yes, let the coach get away scott free without calling them on the carpet.
Enjoy your son's games wherever they may be.
Good luck.
Enjoy your son's games wherever they may be.
Good luck.
quote:Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
Fan, most of the posters on this site probably never had sons that experienced the "pine syndrome" so its easy to go the tough love approach.
That's an assumption. My son probably spent less time in the HS field than your son did. He sat while others that were older and not as good played before him. He was a great hitter, they took the bat out of his hands early, and most his innings were as a reliever as a sophmore and junior. Finally as a senior he got to pitch, DH and play position.
There are lots of posters here whose kids sat in HS and college, but they just never came here and complained. They and their players understood that sometimes that is the way it is, and that understanding probably drove them to be better at their game, and that is why they got opportunities when it was more important.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
There are lots of posters here whose kids sat in HS and college, but they just never came here and complained. They and their players understood that sometimes that is the way it is, and that understanding probably drove them to be better at their game, and that is why they got opportunities when it was more important.
Well said!
So you know my story, but check this out! Now today, my son is supposed to be playing on the Freshman team. No problem, he's getting time. So a little bit ago my wife texted me and it said, "The coach called me and said they are working on getting your son behind the plate for the next games so the regular catcher can play shortstop." My wife said, "Hows that going to happen when he is playing on the freshman team" and he said, "I will look into it". Make some sense out of that?
Like I said before, I dont care. His mommy called in the first place. But for the Varsity Head coach to call us back the second time is kinda confusing. Does he even know who my kid is? LOL I told her to just let it go so he still has a chance to play next year. I have read on here that someone else heard that 3 freshman didn't make the team the next year from complaining parents. I dont want that to happen, but I dont pick the teams so I have no control of that! I can only be a fan.
Like I said before, I dont care. His mommy called in the first place. But for the Varsity Head coach to call us back the second time is kinda confusing. Does he even know who my kid is? LOL I told her to just let it go so he still has a chance to play next year. I have read on here that someone else heard that 3 freshman didn't make the team the next year from complaining parents. I dont want that to happen, but I dont pick the teams so I have no control of that! I can only be a fan.
fan4445
Do your kid a favor and don't compare him to his brother. We recently had a situation whereby the older sibling had success as an underclass varsity starting pitcher but it didn't look like his younger brother was going to get a shot at pitching for the Freshman team. Sure enough the slated starter wasn't eligible to play, he got an opportunity, and we now suspect based on his performance others will follow. Had nothing to do with the older brother, he will earn play time on his own merits.
Do your kid a favor and don't compare him to his brother. We recently had a situation whereby the older sibling had success as an underclass varsity starting pitcher but it didn't look like his younger brother was going to get a shot at pitching for the Freshman team. Sure enough the slated starter wasn't eligible to play, he got an opportunity, and we now suspect based on his performance others will follow. Had nothing to do with the older brother, he will earn play time on his own merits.
TPM,
Ve gerst durn!
Ve gerst durn!
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
That's an assumption. My son probably spent less time in the HS field than your son did. He sat while others that were older and not as good played before him. He was a great hitter, they took the bat out of his hands early, and most his innings were as a reliever as a sophmore and junior. Finally as a senior he got to pitch, DH and play position.
There are lots of posters here whose kids sat in HS and college, but they just never came here and complained. They and their players understood that sometimes that is the way it is, and that understanding probably drove them to be better at their game, and that is why they got opportunities when it was more important.
My original question was posted because I am looking for ideas.
I have been around HS sports for awhile, and seen some very strange stuff. Kids with much less talent, hustle, grades, attitude, etc playing ahead of their betters.
Not necessarily my kids, just kids I've known or seen.
I've seen parents influence coaches. Seen it with my own eyes.
I know a lot of parents and players. Some parents seem to be much better at helping their kids. That is what I am ignorant about, and want to learn about.
fan4445
Why did your son choose to become a pitcher? Does he have the physic of a pitcher? Does he throw exceptionally hard? Is he very tall?
Is your guy specially gifted as a pitcher?
Why is he not a position player as well? Can he hit?
Just trying to get a better understanding of who your guy is as a player, that way we all have a better idea of how to help.
For instance, my oldest son could pitch...he threw very hard, but he was not going to be 6'2"+ so although I loved every minute that he was on the mound, as he did too, I knew it was not where his future in baseball lay, so we focused on hitting and fielding...
Why did your son choose to become a pitcher? Does he have the physic of a pitcher? Does he throw exceptionally hard? Is he very tall?
Is your guy specially gifted as a pitcher?
Why is he not a position player as well? Can he hit?
Just trying to get a better understanding of who your guy is as a player, that way we all have a better idea of how to help.
For instance, my oldest son could pitch...he threw very hard, but he was not going to be 6'2"+ so although I loved every minute that he was on the mound, as he did too, I knew it was not where his future in baseball lay, so we focused on hitting and fielding...
quote:Originally posted by fan4445:
My original question was posted because I am looking for ideas.
I know a lot of parents and players. Some parents seem to be much better at helping their kids. That is what I am ignorant about, and want to learn about.
You are right, some parents are better at it than others.
My post was not necessarily addressed to you. To state that most of the posters sons here probably never experienced "pine syndrome" was not necessary, there are people here who post on all subjects just because they GET it, by trying to help you and others.
None of us have ever seen your son play so our opinion really on whether he should or not pitch doesn't really matter, we are just trying to help you as a parent try to understand that a lot goes into this (especially when the players are younger than their teammates) than just being better than everyone else (especially from a parents point of view).
I think that many missed where you stated that your son plays position when not pitching.
This is about (what I gather) what you want and what you feel that is best for your son at this particular time. It just doesn't work that way. It is not about you, your son, it's about what the coach feels is right for his team and if he makes the wrong decisions (for whatever reasons) is not your issue.
You can be helpful by sitting back and watching and not stressing over the lack of playing time you feel your son deserves on the mound, maybe it's just not his time right now for that position. Get his on a team this summer as a pitcher where he can practice getting better. Stop blaming this on the coach and favoritism (yes that does happen). That was my point, in my post. For 2 years in HS my son sat the bench every game except those that he pitched in, he was not allowed to hit, they just didn't need him to, until his senior year. Reality was that he had to sit and wait until it was his turn, regardless of who was better.
But this to keep in mind.... he didn't get to do what he wanted (or we) had nothing to do with the fact that he had gotten most of his college tuition paid for being a pitcher at a top 25 D1!
When my son was a junior/senior in HS a team we often met up against (in our our district) a freshman/sophmore pitcher who really took a beating everytime he faced us and others.
That player who looked like he didn't belong is now a ML starting pitcher.
The reality is that the cream always rises to the top and it's not where you begin but where you end up, take that with you to every game, and enjoy the time you have watching him.
I will ask the question.What is the purpose of a freshman team? I would think it is to develop players. You can not develop if you do not get into games. period end of story.
Nice Post TPM
quote:Originally posted by Will:
I will ask the question.What is the purpose of a freshman team? I would think it is to develop players. You can not develop if you do not get into games. period end of story.
The bulk of player development occurs in non game situation in my opinion.
I believe I have heard it stated that Japanese youth players rarely play games but spend the vast majority of their time honing their craft...
I as a parent would miss the games, but I always enjoyed watching practices as well. I still enjoy watching my guy throw across the field and take grounders...and yes BP.
quote:Originally posted by Will:
I will ask the question.What is the purpose of a freshman team? I would think it is to develop players. You can not develop if you do not get into games. period end of story.
Purpose of a freshman team would be to become acclimated to the game on the HS level.
The coach gets to decide who plays where, end of story. Fan's son is playing, just not where he wants him to.
Seek out a good travel team for summer and fall for further development of your secondary position so you CAN get in the game more often as an upperclassman.
One more piece of advice.... always be careful what you wish for...
JMO.
Problem is he isn't playing much at all. He is very good at 3rd and 1st and is a slugger. He probably has about 12 plate appearances so far, I'm guessing his average is about .450, with 3 doubles. (has DH'ed and pinch hit.)
He loves to pitch. He's about 6' now. But he will jump at the chance to play wherever the coach needs him.
Coach is telling him he will get his chance to pitch, so that is what we really want. We will just have to be patient.
I realize now for a HS program, the freshman team is kind of a throw away team. Looks like they will only play 1/2 to 2/3 of their scheduled games, and practices don't amount to much.
I think I got the wrong impression when my older son was a freshman. They had a really great and enthusiastic young coach, and the team had an unusual amount of talent.
I just want to see what he can do on the mound, so I can better judge his talent.
He loves to pitch. He's about 6' now. But he will jump at the chance to play wherever the coach needs him.
Coach is telling him he will get his chance to pitch, so that is what we really want. We will just have to be patient.
I realize now for a HS program, the freshman team is kind of a throw away team. Looks like they will only play 1/2 to 2/3 of their scheduled games, and practices don't amount to much.
I think I got the wrong impression when my older son was a freshman. They had a really great and enthusiastic young coach, and the team had an unusual amount of talent.
I just want to see what he can do on the mound, so I can better judge his talent.
It does sound like your son is fine and it is just an issue with expectations for an incoming freshman.
Get on a good Travel team and you will have a great summer!
Get on a good Travel team and you will have a great summer!
quote:Originally posted by Will:
I will ask the question.What is the purpose of a freshman team? I would think it is to develop players. You can not develop if you do not get into games. period end of story.
If you are expecting a High School Freshman team / coach to "develop" a player, you're likely going to be waiting a LONG time.
Players aren't "Developed" during the season.
Players are "Developed" during the off-season (conditioning, getting reps in the field on with the bat and off the mound, putting the extra work in) and during Summer ball.
quote:Originally posted by ctandc:quote:Originally posted by Will:
I will ask the question.What is the purpose of a freshman team? I would think it is to develop players. You can not develop if you do not get into games. period end of story.
If you are expecting a High School Freshman team / coach to "develop" a player, you're likely going to be waiting a LONG time.
Players aren't "Developed" during the season.
Players are "Developed" during the off-season (conditioning, getting reps in the field on with the bat and off the mound, putting the extra work in) and during Summer ball.
We here in Maryland have this thing called PRACTICE for our freshmen team and yes even for JV and Varsity. We do this more than we actually play games throughout the season. It has two purposes: It DEVELOPES players through repetition. It also gives the coaching staff a chance to assess the players drive, progress and ability from which to make line-up decisions. Work harder than anyone else during these "practice" times and good things will happen. If they don't happen, work even harder until it does. The option is to just quit and join the drama club. But even those pesky directors can be hard to impress. They oddly enough give the big parts to the best actors. Dang it’s just not fair if only we could live in a socialist society and evoke equal time for all.
The best players I've known didn't develop during high school practice. The developed from all the extra work they did away from the team. If a kid relies on high school practice as they only development of his game, chances are he'll fall far short of his potential.
There IS no experience like GAME experience, period!
Who is going to improve more, the one who gets 4 at bats every game no matter his results or the kid who gets a pinch hit opportunity once every 2 or 3 games? Who stands a better chance of hitting well by the end of the season?
Doesn't matter how much outside work you do if you don't get the opportunity to show what you can do then you can't beat out the guy that does get the chance.
Doesn't matter how much outside work you do if you don't get the opportunity to show what you can do then you can't beat out the guy that does get the chance.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
The best players I've known didn't develop during high school practice. The developed from all the extra work they did away from the team. If a kid relies on high school practice as they only development of his game, chances are he'll fall far short of his potential.
It takes both, along with the game experience.
The work you do during practice can make you a better player. Not a whole lot of pitching fielding drills my son can do in our basement.
The work he puts in outside of practice will differentiate him from the players who do not work outside of practice
And the experience he has through games makes him a better player.
Takes all three.
Fan, Ok, I'll bite. In all the 5 or 6 years I have observed with my sons' team, I haven't seen any coaches that want to win make bad calls in the pitching lineup. The coaches would put on the best possible pitching, which quite often lead to over pitching their top 1 or 2 starters (different topic all together). As someone here has asked before, you need to examine objectively what is the deficiency your son has to overcome or is it made to be a pitcher. Give you one example - on a all star game facing a tough opposing team, my son and the opposing pitcher both pitched a shut-out regular innings. On the extra inning, my son ran up to the pitch count limit, came out with one guy on base. The reliever walked two batters, then gave up a home-run. Son's team tried to rally back but too much to overcome. On a regular day, the reliever is a very good hard throwing pitcher, but what about under pressure? I have seen too many scores based on walks as well. Coaches could be wrong a lot on the batting order, but rarely wrong on the pitching lineup.
You got some good advices here, such as go with summer and fall teams where you son has more opportunity to pitch. One other suggestion that might work is for your son to make friends with the top pitchers in the team. Your son could ask them about pitching tips, pitch workout with them. If the top pitchers see something in your sons after that, they will unofficially recommend your son to the coach to do some "garbage time" pitching in the game, where is score are run up so high that it didn't matter who is pitching. It worked in my son's current team, where he works out with one or two of his friends who have never pitched but would like to try out on the mound. Then my son would tell coach to take a look at them and coach said ok, next time they will get a chance. So far one of them got to pitch once and he wasn't too bad considering first time on the mound.
You got some good advices here, such as go with summer and fall teams where you son has more opportunity to pitch. One other suggestion that might work is for your son to make friends with the top pitchers in the team. Your son could ask them about pitching tips, pitch workout with them. If the top pitchers see something in your sons after that, they will unofficially recommend your son to the coach to do some "garbage time" pitching in the game, where is score are run up so high that it didn't matter who is pitching. It worked in my son's current team, where he works out with one or two of his friends who have never pitched but would like to try out on the mound. Then my son would tell coach to take a look at them and coach said ok, next time they will get a chance. So far one of them got to pitch once and he wasn't too bad considering first time on the mound.
Just to give you guys an update.
My son has been hanging in and giving it his best shot.
He finally got to pitch.
He started a game against a D1 school, went 5-1/3, 8ks, 1 walk, 1 unearned run.
He was pulled because of pitch count (which was good as I could tell he was getting tired.)
I was really pleased with the result since this was the fist time he had pitched in a game since last fall.
After seeing him pitch in this environment, I can objectively say that he is good enough to be a starter.
I believe he will continue to do the work and put out the effort required, but I think we both realize that he may have to step it up to get noticed.
My son has been hanging in and giving it his best shot.
He finally got to pitch.
He started a game against a D1 school, went 5-1/3, 8ks, 1 walk, 1 unearned run.
He was pulled because of pitch count (which was good as I could tell he was getting tired.)
I was really pleased with the result since this was the fist time he had pitched in a game since last fall.
After seeing him pitch in this environment, I can objectively say that he is good enough to be a starter.
I believe he will continue to do the work and put out the effort required, but I think we both realize that he may have to step it up to get noticed.
quote:There IS no experience like GAME experience, period!
As a coach I want to know what the kid can do in a GAME.
College and pro scouts see a kid pitch in a GAME. See a kid hit in a game. there is a reason for that.
when I was coaching I asked my jv coach about how the kids were doing. Who was PLAYING WELL.
quote:Originally posted by fan4445:
Just to give you guys an update.
My son has been hanging in and giving it his best shot.
He finally got to pitch.
He started a game against a D1 school, went 5-1/3, 8ks, 1 walk, 1 unearned run.
Fan, Congrats on the great outing. Those are some good stats at any level. I am a bit confused about where he's playing. D1 sounds like college but in your original post he was a HS freshman playing on a freshman team.
Sorry, I meant HS Div 1.
Glad to hear that your son made the most of it when given a chance.