Player Rating -> College Potential

CV, you have a PM.

I too would like to know what it means because I need to know for my son as well!

Thank you!

Definitely contact the D2's and D3's, but don't rule out lower to mid-level D1's. Here in Texas, the powerhouse programs usually sign PG 9's and 10's, but I've checked the early signing lists and rosters of lower level D1's and they have been known to sign players with PG ratings as low as a 6.5. Also, it's always possible that your son had an off-day at the PG showcase or that his "stock" will rise as the year progresses.

I'm just curious here and don't mean anything at ll by this, other than sheer curiosity, but does anyone ever get a bad rating at these showcases?

Maybe PG or TRhit can answer that for me. Has anyone ever come in and gotten a 2 or 3 because the kid just stinks? I haven't really followed it closely or anything, but the few times I've checked because friend's kids have gone, it seems like alot of people fall in that 7-8 range at various events.

I have wondered that myself pfbear,

I have decide to assume that if a kid "stinks" then his parents aren't going to shell out the $$ to attend the showcase.
That said, I have looked at many player profiles from past events and I don't recall ever seeing anyone get a rating less than a 6.

PG seems to be the most respected showcase outfit. I am hoping that the ratings are not inflated.

Thanks,
CV

We do not use a "rating" system---our evaluations indicate the level of college play we see for the player

I think I've seen players who've been to showcases whose ratings are not posted. Maybe they only post the ratings when they are flattering?

Midlo: If it was a fairly recent showcase, it just may be that the ratings aren't posted YET. It takes a while with PG due probably to the sheer volume of players they evaluate. Coach Victory, I haven't read all the responses to your original post, but I certainly wouldn't NOT contact certain schools of interest based on PG's evaluation. Though it's a great organization that runs great events, their ratings aren't the "be-all and end-all" IMHO. I think Perfect Game would admit it's not a perfect science. For instance, the last event my son took part in, he was given a "7" rating, summer between his junior and senior year. Potential low round pick, DI prospect. Well, he's going to be playing DIII his freshman year in college, having gotten barely a sniff from the higher divisions. Do I think he's going to get drafted in ANY round?...Very doubtful. I'm not being critical, seriously. I love PG and think they are tops in their field. I'm wondering though if there is data available stating just how many "7"'s actually do get drafted or play DI. Does anyone know?

From the little research I've done with Texas schools, it seems that D1 players with lower than an 8 rating are a rare exception rather than the rule -- but it does happen.

One other thing. I've found that while almost all of the powerhouse signees have attended PG events, barely 1/3 of those from lower level D1's have attended. Almost no one from the D2 rosters I've checked has attended a PG event. Apparently, like others have guessed, the players who would rate less than a 7 or 8 are simply not shelling out the money to go.

From what I have seen of PG showcases and events, they are mostly concerned with ranking a players tools. I doubt they get much of a chance to see most of the players more than once. So if you throw 90mph, at any position, you will probably get a high ranking from PG. At least an 8.

I wouldn't want this thread to turn into one that just starts slamming PG's ratings. I was simply pointing out what turned out to be a disparity in our case. Their "Potential low-round pick, DI prospect" didn't pan out for us. Maybe they were projecting that that's where my son would be at some point in the future, I don't know. But as I pointed out, the ratings came out a mere few months before the early signing period, so what good does "projection" do the player at that point? This I do know: my son improved in all three of the PG events he took part in (6, 6.5 & 7), so he was learning the ropes. I also know that he's very happy with the program he's going to be playing in in college and that his future college coach first spotted him at a PG event. Mission accomplished.

Poptime,Infielddad and DOD,

My son went to a PG showcase in Florida several years ago when he was a sophomore in HS. I think he had the lowest ranking (6) of any player at the event.

When recruiting time rolled around he still received alot of D-1 scholly offers - and took one. (Hated the school and the Coach and transferred - now at a D-2 all wood bat conference)

He plays against D-1 guys every summer - and hits .325 to .350 - with a wood bat - and runs a 6.6. 60. He put on 35 pounds of muscle in the last 3 years - and has the athletic ability of an NFL free safety.

Last June - we had 2 teams calling pre-draft and testing the waters very directly about whether he would sign as a 15-17th round pick. (Nothing earth-shattering - but not bad relatively speaking IMO)

If you base your plans solely on a rating made when the kid is barely 16 years old - you may be making a mistake IMO.

That being said - PG's accuracy rate - when it comes to projecting players is astounding. Believe me - I have followed the stuff very closely for many years - and the fact is - their ability to accurately project high school players is second to none. Period.

But - a rating made when a kid is 16 years old doesnt necessarily tell the whole story.

All IMO.

Just work hard - play hard - and have fun.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
If you base your plans solely on a rating made when the kid is barely 16 years old - you may be making a mistake IMO.

Um, I wasn't. That's what I was cautioning Coach Victory against. And my son wasn't barely 16, he was 17 and entering his senior year of high school. Otherwise I agree with everything you've said. One more time: I have NO PROBLEM with Perfect Game, I think they're great. Period.

I dont think people should be defensive about their opinions concerning Perfect Game.

You may like all of the things they do - you may like some of things they do - or - you may not like anything they do. As long as those opinions are expressed civilly - without cheap shots - why be hesitant to express your thoughts and opinions?

And ultimately - IMO - it really doesnt matter what you or I think.

When it comes to evaluating talent - and providing information about high school players to the baseball community - they are it.

Noone else even comes close.

The only thing the player needs to do - is to play every game like it is his last. IMO.

As far as I know, my 08 son hasn't been to any PG showcases and might not be able to fit one in this year. He has been to quite a few PG tournaments, most recently Jupiter, last October. He is already on everyone's radar screen, as evidenced by the volume of letters he has received.

Is he missing anything? That is, what would he gain by attending a showcase when he is already recognized?

I am not suggesting that anyone go or not go.

After all these years - I have come to the conclusion that I know absolutely nothing about the recruiting process or the draft. Nothing.

The only things I am sure of now are:

1) Going to a PG showcase or a PG tournament is alot of fun - and you always play against awesome competition.

2) The player should just keep hitting the **** out of the ball and running like a wild dog - whereever, whenever and against whomever he plays.

Thats all I know.

PG may or may not defend themselves. They generally stay on the sidelines unless things become a bit out of hand and they feel the need to give their perspective.

It is an inexact science based on projectibility. The more PG sees a player, the greater the chance of getting it right. However, PG has repeatedly stated they will err on the side of caution and give a player the benefit of doubt. Generally, complaints usually come from parents of players with lower grades.

If they rate someone a 7, and they attend a D3 school that does not mean PG was wrong. Other factors come into play than just the talent assessment. Academic fit, geographic fit, position need by a school, etc are other reasons for players to end up at schools. Sometimes the projectibility is interpretable into different time frames. Some players are immediate impact, while others blossom after a year or so in the program, regardless of which level they are at.

My son is a text book example for kids who start out at 7.5. He's been to a few events (possibly more than any other player). He's gone from 7.5 to 9.5, back to 8.0, and back to 9.5. (Although the step down was during a long stretch of injuries and illness. But, he wanted to keep playing through it, knowing the possible effect of showcasing at 60%.)

I sometimes think we, as parents, put more weight in the grading than any coaches or scouts do. While it may create a pecking order of sorts, all coaches/scouts will wait to see the player with their own eyes before making a determination for fit with their program. But, atleast attending events lets them know a player exists. And, it gives them the venue and time to see them compete...remember, most high school seasons are at the same time as the collegiate season.

quote:

You may like all of the things they do - you may like some of things they do - or - you may not like anything they do. As long as those opinions are expressed civilly - without cheap shots - why be hesitant to express your thoughts and opinions?

And ultimately - IMO - it really doesnt matter what you or I think.

Its,

I agree completely with the first part, and disagree with the last part.

For those who wonder... we give players the highest possible grade we can based on what we believe their potential is. It is not based on now as much as the future.

We have had many players with 8s who have ended up at small colleges. Some of them end up getting drafted out of those colleges. Some go juco and then DI or DII or DIII. Some we graded too high, some too low. There is a player in the Major Leagues that we once gave a 6.5.

There are players who we've deleted their info or didn't give a grade. Most players signed in the early signing periods that we have a file on are at least 8.5 or higher. Maybe we should adjust our definitions.

No one should ever give up if we graded them too low. No one should ever think they have it made if we grade then high. We are NOT perfect!

quote:

Is he missing anything? That is, what would he gain by attending a showcase when he is already recognized

infidel08,
First of all welcome to the HSBBW. A great place to get opinions and here is mine.
Of course you will never know that answer unless you take your son to a PG Showcase. I felt the same as you and did NOT participate in ANY PG events. I felt as if in was not needed in my son’s case. I looked at recruiting as a marketing effort and showcasing as a form of advertising. If you have more orders than you can fill, why spend more of your money on advertising? While it never hurts your son, it could be redundant and costly. Showcasing doesn’t improve the value of your wares; it just makes more people aware of what you have. If I had it to do over again I would approach it in the same manner. Just my opinion.
Fungo

quote:

Showcasing doesn’t improve the value of your wares; it just makes more people aware of what you have. If I had it to do over again I would approach it in the same manner. Just my opinion.

As the opposite end of the spectrum, so would I. My son may never have the success of Fungo's, but we are having the time of our live's doing it. Son was an early commit, but we still attend events. I suppose it's what players do: play.

PG,
I hear ya - but I will agree to disagree on that one.

What I think about my kid's ability is completely irrelevant at the higher levels of baseball. I dont think any professional scout - or any scout for PG for that matter - cares about what a parent thinks about their kids ability.

I also think that any parent who believes they can influence that process - in any meaningful way - is clueless.

Yes - there are a few - with connections - who get their mediocre kid drafted - or secure a spot on a college team with a large "contribution" to a school. But they are exceptions. IMO

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
but we are having the time of our live's doing it. Son was an early commit, but we still attend events. I suppose it's what players do: play.

Wayback,

Feel the same way.
When my younger guy sees his new schedule and sees the PG tournaments on the list - his eyes light up.
And so do mine.

Its always alot of fun and the kids play against great competition at every event.

What more would a player - or a parent - want?

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I looked at recruiting as a marketing effort and showcasing as a form of advertising. If you have more orders than you can fill, why spend more of your money on advertising? While it never hurts your son, it could be redundant and costly. Showcasing doesn’t improve the value of your wares; it just makes more people aware of what you have.
Fungo

Great perspective, Fungo. Thanks.

I've been addicted to HSBBW for a few months. Being divorced and living nowhere near the kid, I use it to understand the process he is going through. Some people live vicariously through their kids. I do it through HSBBW. Fortunately, it is a great community.

Getting back to my original question which boils down to: Given a 7.5 rating what level college should we focus on, I did a little research on the committed list for northeast players on the PG site.

I found 63 RHPs listed. Of those, 13 (more than 20%) were rated 7.5 or lower at about the same time in their high school career as my son is now. Those players are going to the following schools:
Pace,
Hofstra 2,
URI - 2,
Elon,
Delaware,
Newberry,
UMass,
Lehigh,
William and Mary,
Manchester CC,
Rowan

I'm not exactly sure how to interpret this info other than to think that some D1 schools like the Atlantic 10 schools may not be out of reach.

Thanks,
CV

Hmmmm. Interesting thread. From a parent's perspective, Does a PG rating help?

1. Yep, because it's no longer your less than subjective opinion.
2. Great recruiting tool
3. Well run events
4. Superior competition
5. Fun to meet the other 'nut" case parents like yourself sitting in the stands...
6. One more day to see your kid play

Coach Victory: As to the 7.5 rating for your son, they were rating his potential - big body (6'5") but relatively mild arm (RHP at 81). Sounds like a good pitching coach and pitching conditioning program at a top DII or DIII for three years and he could be something, and then that PG reference to a low round draft might have some validity. Always take the position that a good honest opinion about your son from professionals is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
If they rate someone a 7, and they attend a D3 school that does not mean PG was wrong.

I know it probably sounded as if that is what I was saying, or meaning, but it wasn't. All I can say is my son is very happy with his college choice and Perfect Game was an integral part of his being recruited by them. This is my last post on this thread.

CoachV,

The difference - baseball wise - between Elon University and Pace University - as an example - is light years.

Unless you are talking the elite baseball programs - the Cal State Fullertons and Clemsons of the baseball world - dont rule any college out based on a ranking.

IMO.

Again, it goes to the projectibility. Clearly his size is a plus. His arm is likely slower than other D1-type kids at this stage. I assume they then turn to signs leaning toward the likelihood of increasing the velocity.

PopTime, ouch! watch the swords. Yeah, I wasn't trying to pick a battle. I was more just using that as an example as to support kids end up at schools for a lot of reasons other than playing at the highest level they can.

I feel a player should use the baseball to get into the best academic position he can and still be a player, rather than try to get into the best baseball school he can without regard for academics.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wayback:
I feel a player should use the baseball to get into the best academic position he can QUOTE]
That's actually how it worked out for us anyway. He very well may not have gotten into this school based on his borderline SAT's. But his GPA was fine and Coach advocated for him with admissions. OK I lied, it WASN'T my last post on the thread!

We are starting to roam all over the place. IMO.

The vast majority of the rankings are pretty accurate IMO. But it isnt the end all and be all. Not even close.

I have seen kids ranked 9 that couldnt hit .300 off a tee against little leaguers - no less against pitchers flaming 90 MPH.

I have seen kids ranked 9 that couldnt chew gum and lift their left leg at the same time.

And some of these players are still being touted as top prospects. Why? Who knows - and ultimately - what difference does it really make?

In the end - it will all come out in the wash.

Hit it - catch it - and run like a wild dog.

The best wild dog will - almost always - make it to the next level. At some point - the BS just gets stopped dead in its tracks.

"Always take the position that a good honest opinion about your son from professionals is a good thing."

Absolutely!! That's why we attended the PG Showcase. Just trying to clarify what PG's opinion should mean in our college search. With so many colleges out there with baseball programs, anything that can help narrow our focus is great.

CV

quote:

Originally posted by CoachVictory:
Just trying to clarify what PG's opinion should mean in our college search.

I don't think it should have anything to do with it. I've always looked at it (the rating) as a good tool, or jumping off point for SCOUTS and RECRUITERS to use when looking at players. But what do I know?

PopTime,

I'm confused.
I believe you said that your son attended 3 PG showcases and PG was integral in his being recruited but you don't think that PG's opinion should have anything to do with our college search??

There are excellent academic schools at all levels of college baseball play. We would like to use the opinion of others such as PG to help us identify what level my son might be able to play at and then we'll find the best academic school available in that range.

Thanks,
CV

We do try to give every player what we believe is the highest possible honest rating. To some this rating is still much too low for their son. And sometimes they are right about that. Other times they just don’t know any better and they are wrong.

If I were going to make a mistake on a player, I’d prefer to over rank him rather than under rank him. Perhaps if we drafted or gave scholarships we might look at it the opposite way. Our grades are based on potential and that potential is not always realized. We’ve given 10s to people that were drafted late or even went undrafted. Matt Weiters for one, Jeff Clement for another! Often the 10 doesn’t make sense right away, but does later on in college.

Of course the goal is to peg them exactly, but that is impossible in every case. I do think our definitions are too broad and tend to confuse people. There are players who we’re fairly certain they will not be drafted but they do have the potential to play DI baseball. So we grade that player based on the latter which could be an easy 7 or even an 8. It’s not like every single DI player is also a draft prospect. Many DI players never get drafted.

At any rate, I love it when a player proves that we rated him too low. We once rated Prince Fielder the 58th best prospect at one of our showcases. In other words, we thought (at the time) that there were 57 better prospects among the 150 or so who were there. His dad did question our opinion. I explained that his only real tool was the bat. I should have just told Cecil, the reason we ranked him so low is because we are stupid! Anyway, I really liked Prince… Great kid! I’m so happy we were wrong about him!

We can live with being wrong so long as we’re not wrong on purpose!

quote:

by C-V: Poptime I'm confused... you don't think that PG's opinion should have anything to do with our college search??

sure, IMO poptime's right on, in that you'll spin your wheels & go crazy if you try to literaly apply ratings #'s to your college search ...
remember -
you choosing THEM is totally irrelevant (no matter what rating you have) ...
unless THEY FIRST CHOOSE YOU

at this stage of the process your list should be - colleges you'd like to attend

later on that list will change to - colleges showing interest in you

later yet the list changes to - colleges that want you

if you're lucky some colleges on list #1 will be on list #3, but don't be surprised if it's completely different

hope that helps

Bee, great post.

Coach Victory, you'll know what level of ball is right for your son by the schools who contact you.
You should also be contacting the schools of your choice and, during the courtship from Spring of the junior year through Spring of the senior year, you'll know exactly what level is right.

I'd say, cast a very broad net. And then accept that at the end, you'll be surprised. It does change quickly for too many reasons to try to anticipate. Keep improving, continue maintaining visibility, and remain flexible, and you'll know when the time and place is right. But, to anticipate upfront is nearly impossible.

Bee and wayback,

MANY of the threads I have read regarding recruiting on this site strongly advise contacting the colleges that you are interested in. Living in a realistic world precludes me from pestering the coaching staff at Rice, Clemson, etc. There is some level of play, however, where son and I won't be wasting our or the coaches' time by contacting them. The point of the thread was to determine if we can use the feedback from PG to frame our search somewhat. I'm still not sure we can or not.

Thanks for the the advice. It is appreciated.
CV

Coach, I can't explain any logic in the whole process.

Sometimes schools will contact you. Then, you don't get an offer. But, you look at their roster and wonder why they contacted you in the first place when they have a stud in your son's position and recruited another stud the year before.

You'll find that they are contacting many at the same position, and you never know where in the pecking order you stand.

Some will end up not being good fit for many reasons (again, academics, scholly's available, needs, location).

In your choosing of schools, pick a broad range from the baseball perspective...including some "up" from where you think son is projecting, some in the comfort level, and some as "safety". You never know, you may be underestimating or overestimating. Those coaches will let you know, subtly or otherwise, if he doesn't fit there.

THe most important part you can do is keep working on improving and keep high visibility to those schools you target.