Player Sues Coach

Surprised it hasn't happened already with the litigious, entitled society that we're living in. There's got to be more to the story, especially if he was a 3 yr starter going into last year. But I'm not shocked by it at all. Maybe coaches should start carrying Professional Liability insurance to protect themselves from idiots...how sad!

I am not surprised that fundraising again rears its ugly head as part of the equation, either. Not trying to sound petty, but suing a school district for $150K in California is tantamount to a basic extortion play. Doubtful the kid's parents have the gumption to take this to trial, it will get laughed out of court. They are banking the district either settles for a fraction, in which case after lawyer fees they get peanuts, or they are trying to instigate a CIF investigation of the program.

Everyone gets a participation trophy....

Wow!  So this is what our country has degraded to. A kid is benched and the coach gets sued as being a bully??  No reports of verbal or physical abuse. I really don't even know what to say.  I can only imagine what my dad would have said if I had come home with THAT excuse, and I know EXACTLY what I would have told my son. 

So we don't REALLY know what happened here, but I get why the parents sued, it was to get the coach fired. 

Kid was a starter for the previous 3 years, he doesn't fundraise (which is not required in CA by law) and now he doesn't play in any games?  Not even the alumni vs. current team game which is for all intents and purposes a blow off game for seniors????  It DOES sound like the coach had an issue with the kid and not necessarily with his playing ability.

If a kid just falls behind his peers and can't cut it anymore then fine, put him on the bench and let him take his yearbook picture and let him brag about how he was on the baseball team in high school that didn't amount to anything.  But benching, even on senior night, does sound like an abuse of power.

CaCo-  Welcome to HS ball.  We have all heard the nightmare about head coaches who suck! Very rarely though will a coach hold a grudge for no reason. Maybe hold a grudge for a BAD reason, but rarely for NO reason.   Even if it isn't state law I would want my kids to participate in fund raising.  YOU may be able to swing all the fees but billy or joey may not.  Your fund raising for the TEAM.  

And while we don't know all the "locker room" details and just know what is being reported.....The fact his parents are suing gives me an idea of what his parents have taught him about life.    Like so many absent details, did he approach the coach and try to talk about it?  Did he try and put in extra work at practice, help some younger guys on his own time, anything to prove he was a team player?  Did he whine like a spoiled brat?  Was there a better, harder worker player coming up the coach felt needed to play more than the senior?

All good questions we dont have an answer to.   So in the end we formulate one of two facts.  Either the kid was a D bag or the coach was!  Parents suing a school like this, unfortunately, pushes me into a certain direction on who is the one to blame.  

just my opinion!

Kevin A, I took it a different way.  Parents had the money so they are filing the suit for future players who may not have the money.

If it's a law in CA that they aren't required to fundraise then it shouldn't be held against the player for every single game, including senior night. Penalized one game on the sly, sure, but ALL games?????

I've seen high school baseball first hand and seen the entitled kids, the my stuff don't stink kids, but on senior night with a game that doesn't count for anything and the kid still doesn't play....that leads me to believe it's the coach...probably the kid too at some level, but not playing one inning in LF for senior night isn't about the kid in my opinion.

Article did not say he started on the Varsity team all four years.  School has 2000 students so I would assume it has multiple levels of baseball.

HRCJR posted:

Article did not say he started on the Varsity team all four years.  School has 2000 students so I would assume it has multiple levels of baseball.

You are correct, it did not state Varsity all four years, it could have been the JV team or 9th grade team combo....it isn't that he didn't play in the big games that gets me...it's that he didn't play on Senior night. No matter how behind a kid is...or his lack of skill...how does a coach not put in a senior on senior night in a non-counting game against alumni?

Caco, a few hypothetical questions for you ...

If a kid is benched one game and acts like a complete jerk and sits on the end of the bench, pouting and not supporting his teammates, refuses to shag balls or catch pens, etc., do you sit him again next game or do you let him play one inning?

If that behavior continues, same question... ??

If a kid shows a consistent pattern of not participating in team building events (forget fundraising for the moment) and is encouraged, and then subsequently warned that his behavior will have consequences, including not participating in games, would you sit him when he tests you and continues?  Then, if he carries a bad attitude because he was sat, continues this behavior and makes it worse by trying to recruit teammates into his corner of negativity, would you reward him with an inning at senior game or would you hold firm with your message of what is and is not acceptable?

I agree with Kevin A that we don't know the answers to a lot of questions surrounding this particular case.  The parents and the lawsuit are claiming it is based primarily on the non-participation of fundraising.  I would be VERY surprised if that was the actual main factor for the coach's decision to sit the kid.  Again, we don't know.  On the occasion that I have a problem kid and he sits or is let go, the kid usually tells the parents that there is some blame elsewhere and they are oblivious to the actual issues and behaviors of the kid when we have the initial discussion.

When I saw the headline, like most, I thought this was completely ridiculous.  And, like most, I hate the whole law suit-happy environment that we live in.  But I will admit - reading the article, I was left thinking there might be an issue in the way the coach handled things IF he verbally tied the benching to the fundraiser.  That would be unfortunate and still ridiculous in other ways, but a possible legal issue, none the less.  It will be interesting to see what details come of this.  Was the lack of participation in the fundraiser  just one of several other incidents in a behavior pattern with this player?  Or, was this the primary reason he sat for most of the year?

I guess that is my glitch though.  If he's such a severe case then remove him from the team.  Why have him sit there for months not playing, not even on senior night?  

Bad apples happen, there are kids with legit chips on their shoulders that coaches shouldn't have to deal with....so why not cut the kid and his bad attitude loose? 

Where are the other leaders on the team?  Why didn't they stick up for their teammate?  Too many unanswered questions from the article to form an opinion on either side.  But makes me wonder why the other senors did not insist the kid play ... if only on senior night or late innings in blow outs.  I have seen 1st hand where on my son's HS basketball team they had quite a few seniors that received only mop up time at the end of the game.   The captains made sure that the seniors that did not get much playing time started on senior night.  They went to the coach and "demanded" it.  This while the senior captains sat the bench and passed out water and towels during time outs.   Can't even remember if they won or lost the game .... but they did earn respect and taught the younger kids (and coach) a lesson on leadership.

Reading a lot in (a lot) to this kid's behavior based on the article posted.

just saying...

The article says this went on for four months...and 14 games.  14 games is far less than a Varsity HS baseball season in CA.  Was the player not available for the balance of the games or was the lawsuit filed before the season ended and just got picked up by the press.?

Personally, I don't think the article (or the lawyer) did a very good job of teeing up the issues involved.

It appears they include facts contending the sitting was coaching retaliation for the fundraising and the complaint about it. If all of that is true (there is a law about fundraising, it was transgressed, there was complaint and retaliation against the player), that would carry some weight (if true and proven).

However, the lawyer and article suggest the lawsuit is actually  about bullying, with the bullying being having the player sit, without any time on the field, even during the alumni game. Even the lawyer could not differentiate the allegation of bullying where there were no derogatory comments or statements from the situation he cited with the cheerleader, where there were. From the article itself, I am not sure the lawyer did his client any favors with the bullying idea.  There certainly may be additional facts not summarized in the article. Even then, I tend to doubt a lawsuit is the place this matter should be addressed.

Not sure what the true facts are in this case but if you look at his MaxPreps stats they are far from impressive in his Sophmore/Junior years...I think it's hard to draw any conclusion with this short story in the newspaper.  Do I think it could happen?  Yes.  Did it happen here? No clue. 

cabbagedad posted:

Caco, a few hypothetical questions for you ...

If a kid is benched one game and acts like a complete jerk and sits on the end of the bench, pouting and not supporting his teammates, refuses to shag balls or catch pens, etc., do you sit him again next game or do you let him play one inning?

 

Do you really want to know?  In our situation, the kid gets right back in there.  We had a senior catcher and a junior catcher.  The Sr was a hot head, lost his cool a lot, wouldn't block, etc. (and frankly was probably a better outfielder).  The JR was a better catcher and hitter.  The seniors thought so and wanted him to play.  The number 1 pitcher (D1 commit) thought so and want him to catcher for him -- and actually spoke to the coach about it.  So one day, after a game the coach decided the JR was going get his chance the next day with the no. 1 pitcher.  Well the SR threw a fit.  F bombs and such.  (This is in addition to constant f bombs, helmet throwing, bat slamming, and dugout pouting during the season).  The next day the SR. was on the bench with the JR starting.  Pitcher and catcher had a good game.  But in the 4th inning the right fielder got injured and the SR went in (instead of several other outfielders).  Some punishment, huh. 

The point is some school's situations suck.  Our athletics department sucks.  All but one coach sucks (and she'll be gone soon).  AD sucks.  Promises made, promises broken.  Priorities out of wack.  Football wins maybe 2 games per year, if lucky.  Basketball maybe 3.  Baseball and softball sub .500.  For those of us stuck in HS coaches hell, it grinds on you for 4 years.  So I can see a lawsuit.  Not that it's right, but sometimes that's the only way. 

Personally, I think the parent/player have a good case here, based on the not playing in the alumni game.  If traditionally this is a game for Sr.'s, and he didn't play right after he didn't participate in the fund raising, that raises eyebrows.  

With that being said, this is a very, slippery slope.  This could bring on a lot of frivolous lawsuits.

Concerning fundraising - My son went to a Catholic HS (a Jesuit school for those keeping Catholic school affiliation score at home).  The school is a nationally recognized master at fundraising.  One thing that I really admired about the school was that there was no fundraising for specific teams, clubs,etc.  All money went to the general fund or to financial aid.  No concern on team about whose parents donated the scoreboard or bought the new pitching machine.  For the coaches, just one less thing to be concerned with as the school made sure every team had what they needed to succeed.  Maybe not all they wanted - but what was need to run first class team.  And all teams were equal.

I can only picture kids who get cut from teams crying foul.  Coaches having to cater to horrible attitudes to appease school boards afraid of lawsuits...

eventually school ball turns into little league where everyone plays two innings and gets an at bat and they carry 30 kids.

HRCJR posted:

... One thing that I really admired about the school was that there was no fundraising for specific teams, clubs,etc.  All money went to the general fund or to financial aid.  No concern on team about whose parents donated the scoreboard or bought the new pitching machine.  For the coaches, just one less thing to be concerned with as the school made sure every team had what they needed to succeed.  ... And all teams were equal.

 

Well, we are a public school and they try to run boosters this way at our school as well.  Disaster.  We (baseball) raise plenty of money for our program needs.  It goes into the general fund.  When it's time for the needs, we have to petition for the money that WE raised.  We get a fraction of it because football has more needs, they bring in more money and have more parents involved with boosters or a non-baseball person deems our very basic requests unnecessary.  It is a serious shame, the tactics we have to resort to in order to make things happen for the baseball program.

Anyway, as it relates to the OP, I believe that privates don't always have the same regulations that publics have in regards to mandatory participation with fundraisers.  Not positive.

We solved the "General Fund" issue with booster setting up sub-accounts by team.  Each team could use the funds in their sub account as needed with maybe 10% going to a fund that helps support smaller teams that just don't have the numbers to raise lots of $.   In theory, the team coaches are not supposed to know who participated / how much they participated etc... but in a small town, that is hard to hide.  Especially if the fundraisers are organized by the team parents.

2020Mom posted:

Not sure what the true facts are in this case but if you look at his MaxPreps stats they are far from impressive in his Sophmore/Junior years...I think it's hard to draw any conclusion with this short story in the newspaper.  Do I think it could happen?  Yes.  Did it happen here? No clue. 

Maxpreps shows him playing in 9 games this year. Unless that's an error, there is probably a lot more to the story.

Kevin A posted:

I can only picture kids who get cut from teams crying foul.  Coaches having to cater to horrible attitudes to appease school boards afraid of lawsuits...

eventually school ball turns into little league where everyone plays two innings and gets an at bat and they carry 30 kids.

Seen that go both ways Kevin, with kids who made the team too. Some lawyers will take any case, most lawyers only like to take cases they think they can win. We don't know the whole story.

The USA Today High School Sports story includes the young man's recruiting video.

SanDiegoRealist posted:

Kevin A posted:

I can only picture kids who get cut from teams crying foul.  Coaches having to cater to horrible attitudes to appease school boards afraid of lawsuits...

eventually school ball turns into little league where everyone plays two innings and gets an at bat and they carry 30 kids.

Seen that go both ways Kevin, with kids who made the team too. Some lawyers will take any case, most lawyers only like to take cases they think they can win. We don't know the whole story.

Yeah, and also this is one kid in a nation of 300+ million people.  It's not a national movement or even a local trend.  One kid - not an indictment of the entire country.

I'm in CA too and can attest that playing time is still earned on the field, not in the courtroom.  

Swampboy posted:

The USA Today High School Sports story includes the young man's recruiting video.

Looks like a pretty decent little player and not a bad video either.

My kid's HS team could certainly use him on the field...lol

Here’s why I’m careful about using MaxPreps.

This kid’s team played 24 games in 2017, but the stats were only reported for 20. Right away that makes me question everything about them.

Going back to 2015, there were only 10 players on the roster, and 2 of them were #10. That will screw up MP stats because things are tied to a player’s number.

2016 was screwier yet. 19 players on the roster, but stats were turned in for only 3 games for any player.

I’m not saying anything other than more has to be done than just take numbers from MP. And I’m not taking a shot at the coach! The 1st thing that ran through my mind was this guy took over in 2015 and wasn’t able to assemble a staff that could help him get everything done. After that it seems obvious that stats were not very high on the coach’s priority list, and that’s OK too.

But in the end it sure seems to me that using MP numbers to try to say the kid didn’t deserve to be playing isn’t a good idea.

DesertDuck posted:

Swampboy posted:

The USA Today High School Sports story includes the young man's recruiting video.

Looks like a pretty decent little player and not a bad video either.

My kid's HS team could certainly use him on the field...lol

He looks okay. I could see him playing for some teams in our league, but riding pine on others.

We'll never know the whole story, I guess.

He needs to put on weight to play at the next level, that's for sure!  And the video needs to be cut by like 90%.

Sorry I'm so disagreeable!

JCG posted:

DesertDuck posted:

Swampboy posted:

The USA Today High School Sports story includes the young man's recruiting video.

Looks like a pretty decent little player and not a bad video either.

My kid's HS team could certainly use him on the field...lol

He looks okay. I could see him playing for some teams in our league, but riding pine on others.

We'll never know the whole story, I guess.

He needs to put on weight to play at the next level, that's for sure!  And the video needs to be cut by like 90%.

Sorry I'm so disagreeable!

Is that a sorry, not sorry?

So, maybe Coach Lopez ought to contact the atty's for 2 coaches in Tenn & counter sue! lol

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/co...ccused-them-of-abuse

CaCO3Girl posted:

JCG posted:

DesertDuck posted:

Swampboy posted:

The USA Today High School Sports story includes the young man's recruiting video.

Looks like a pretty decent little player and not a bad video either.

My kid's HS team could certainly use him on the field...lol

He looks okay. I could see him playing for some teams in our league, but riding pine on others.

We'll never know the whole story, I guess.

He needs to put on weight to play at the next level, that's for sure!  And the video needs to be cut by like 90%.

Sorry I'm so disagreeable!

Is that a sorry, not sorry?

Haha sort of. But I just told my wife why we could not attend an event she really wants to go to tomorrow, then wrote two emails telling clients why they cannot do what they want to do, and  then logged onto facebook and had to tell an old HS friend how he was wrong about a historical incident, and then I log on here I'm at it again.

But the video is toooooo damn long and too repetitive, and the boy is too  skinny, and that's that, dang it!

Sorry, but that's a very average HS senior. 5'10" 145lbs (and that's what he's listed at). Below average bat speed, no pop, below average arm. I don't mean that as rude, just an honest assessment from baseball around me.

Maybe the whole program has below average players (I have no knowledge and not trying to insult), but nothing about that video screams that he is a clear cut starter at any above average program, or a legit college recruit.

Not sure the ins and outs of the whole story, just saying it's not likely talent alone should've clearly put him in the lineup every day.

Just my $.02.

ironhorse posted:Sorry, but that's a very average HS senior. 5'10" 145lbs (and that's what he's listed at). Below average bat speed, no pop, below average arm. I don't mean that as rude, just an honest assessment from baseball around me.

Maybe the whole program has below average players (I have no knowledge and not trying to insult), but nothing about that video screams that he is a clear cut starter at any above average program, or a legit college recruit.

Not sure the ins and outs of the whole story, just saying it's not likely talent alone should've clearly put him in the lineup every day.

Just my $.02.

In ’15 his team was 10-14 as a DIII team and 41^st out of 73 teams in that division. In ’16 they were 12-12 35^th of 73. In ’17 they were reclassified to a DIV team which is a “lower classification and were 44^th out of 56 teams. I’m not saying they’re a bad team by any means, but definitely not a powerhouse among powerhouses. I see very few teams lower than DI which is the highest classification here in Ca, and he “appears to be at least an “average” player. In fact, if he could throw a lot of strikes, he may well have been an above average pitcher, and would have been a starter on many of the teams I see.

I'm not positive, but I think this is the coach: www.baseball-reference.com/reg...fcgi?id=lopez-001gab