players recruitment

bamfitclub-
First of all, don't get me wrong. I think it is a good idea to keep stats.

BUT, why do you think this will help with recruitment?

My son (08) has received numerous letters, inquiries and questionaires from D1, D2 and D3 schools.

They have asked for:
Personal info
60 time
velo
Highest Baseball Honor
GPA/Class Rank/HS transcript
SAT score
Spring HS schedule
Summer team schedule
"Why are you interested in our school?" question.
"What are your best tools?" question.

Not ONE school has asked for stats.........

Agreed. One recruiter asked what TYPE of hitter my son was. Do you hit for power? Contact hitter? Good bat control? Can you go the other way with the ball if the situation calls for it? One "stat" that this one recruiter WAS impressed with was that my son only struck out once out of every 12 times AB last season. Otherwise, it's like jbb says. Your HS stats are nice to keep for posterity but a college recruiter has nothing to gauge it by. He really doesn't know what the level of competition is in your league/conference.

I agree with jbbaseball. HS baseball stats can be very deceiving. Batting .500 in HS doesn't mean you can hit in college. I know so many players from my area that were like God around here and soon had their scholarships dropped at D-1 schools because they couldn't match up.

I don't know, things could be different in San Antonio, bamfit, where the competition is surely at a much higher level. But around here, I like to know my stats simply to mess around with the other players on the list (if I am ahead of them, jab them a little bit about it ). Most, I think, simply check out the website for their stats because they think it's cool. When the newspaper features you with a big picture and saying you struck out 15 and hit 3 HR's, the girls might notice it but chances are it is deceiving and colleges perhaps wouldn't notice too much.

If you are good, they will come find you. Get yourself out to a good event, play well there and work hard. The rest will come to you. Once you make some kind of name for yourself, they will see you. The stats really are irrelevant.

And just to second jbbaseball, the main things that the schools have looked for in the questionnaires they sent me was personal info. Courses taken, parents' education, siblings and ages. Maybe throw in an ERA or a batting average from the spring or something, that's about it. One coach even asked if I had a girlfriend in a follow up e-mail, and if so, what is her name? I responded "Yes, I have three. Fastball, curveball, changeup." .

The biggest problem with HS stats is that there is such inconsistency in keeping them. In fact many "homers" flat out cook the books.

Someone with bad stats probably had a bad year, but someone with awesome stats, well, you might check them out, but you do still have to check them out for yourself.

Some things you can't fudge, like K's, BB's, HR's, runs allowed. But things like batting avg. and ERA can be finagled quite easily if you set out to do so. (Was that a hit or an error? Depends on whether it was our team or theirs.)

The bad thing is that if you get a team that keeps an honest book, that team's players might seem at a disadvantage compared to a team that cooks the books. I see lots of kids around here who give up lots of runs but still have ERA's below 2.00. (Apparently when they pitch it's all errors?) And then I see guys talking about going 4-for-5, when I saw them hit into two booted balls and strike out.

And that doesn't even get into people who don't know how to keep a book correctly, e.g., people who think getting on base by error helps a player's on base average, people who don't know the difference between a wild pitch and a passed ball, etc. (Or maybe they're all just stolen bases?)

Let me give you a quick story on HS stats. I was the statistician/scorekeeper/media guru for our high school baseball team. My son was recruited and signed an NLI with Auburn University. Shortly after my son’s had signed, I get this call from a gentleman in the SID at Auburn. He asks if I could provide him the stats on a player Auburn had signed. I suggested he call the coaching staff at Auburn. He explained he had called the coaches, they said they didn’t have the player’s stats and gave him the high school coach’s number. The high school coach didn't know the stats so he gave them my phone number. (the caller didn’t know I was the father). I provided the stats, and they did the official press release. --- And no I didn't lie!
Fungo

Midlo is right on. I think a big reason so many colleges discount stats, especially offensive numbers, is because they've been burned by dishonest coaches.

Another reason is that many baseball stats really don't hold up unless measured over significant periods of time. High school seasons are just too short to even out streaky performance. Other factors such as varied pitching quality and inexperienced scorekeepers contribute to poor validity also, but the big culprit is lack of integrity.

On the other hand, I think HS coaches generally do a pretty good job of policing themselves, at least around here. Those that cook the books can expect to get called out on it, and they know that they'll lose their credibility with college recruiters if they fudge.

Stats are such an integral part of the game, but they have to be kept honestly. Fungo got it right.

Many of my son's questionaires ask for pitching stats, Ks, BBs, ERA.

I, like many of you wondered if this was just step one to peak interest.

Remember fellas this is all part of the process. Even when I look at players for my select teams I want to look at stats.

Sure, a big factor even for me is to actually see the player!!!

What if the coach can not see the player in person or in a camp? What do you do? Do you send a video with no background information? Just video of your son hitting and throwing? As a coach I would look at that and just wonder then put the video away.

My understand from my network of coaches is that stats help peak the interest, then of course the bigger player will be to actually see the player and if possible see the player in action.

All this is universal, unless you have good conections with a coach or your son is being recruited.

This information is for players that are not being recruited and need some help. Because believe it or not some players get recruited and the coach does not need to see stats. But, there are 10x more out there that do not have that luxury.

TELL ME WHAT YOU GUYS STILL THINK?

Now here is a thread I like enough to comment on!

I prescribe to the notion that college coaches know the 411 on how "some" HS's keep their books and really don't use them to ascertain a player’s true recruitability.

bamfit

We are totally opposite from you in our selection approach of players for our travel team--- we want to see the players---the only exception may be when a coach we know recommends a kid or one of our players tells us about a kid that can help us---HS stats mean nothing to us

I have posted this before, but there are times I have done games and then have seen the write up in the paper and wondered if it was the same game I worked......

Players credited with going 3-4 when at best it was 1-4, the hits being credited on text book Fielders choices...or blatant errors....wins credited to players who did not meet the minimum and saves given in non save situations...

Someone once said that history is the propaganda of the winner........HS stats are similar.

I recently saw a bio in the paper on a HS athlete that stated he was a "4 year Varsity starter". To many coaches that is an impressive stat.......now understand that the school he attends does not field a Freshman or a JV team and has averaged only 11-14 players over the last decade or so I have umpired them....is it a true statement?.......absolutely..... is it misleading ?...........to a point....

no good answers here I am afraid.....

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
bamfit

We are totally opposite from you in our selection approach of players for our travel team--- we want to see the players---the only exception may be when a coach we know recommends a kid or one of our players tells us about a kid that can help us---HS stats mean nothing to us

Now do not get me wrong here. My success has come from seeing players not looking at stats and saying I want him on my team. Nothing is better than actually seeing players ability. Every coach nows that.....

I have only stated that stats are part of the process.

Tell me how you go about the recruitment process of have a small time player with limited resources get recognized by a mid level college that has not been considered him by any coach/college, but you know he does have the ability to play at the next level.

I am always looking to improve my skills, so I am apparently missing a key aspect to my own process. I would love to improve my process....fill me in your process--anyone.

I don't think you can rely on any one thing. Stats, video and even live action are only relevant to the competition. I have seen players recruited who had an outstanding game and generally were not that strong of a player.
When I promoted my son I din't include any HS stats or video. I stuck to video of recognized elite teams to give a relevance to the level of play. I have seen video where the competition is clearly inferior and this hurts your recruitment severly.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
Let me give you a quick story on HS stats. I was the statistician/scorekeeper/media guru for our high school baseball team. My son was recruited and signed an NLI with Auburn University. Shortly after my son’s had signed, I get this call from a gentleman in the SID at Auburn. He asks if I could provide him the stats on a player Auburn had signed. I suggested he call the coaching staff at Auburn. He explained he had called the coaches, they said they didn’t have the player’s stats and gave him the high school coach’s number. The high school coach didn't know the stats so he gave them my phone number. (the caller didn’t know I was the father). I provided the stats, and they did the official press release. --- And no I didn't lie!
Fungo

That's a great story!
When son went off to school and asked about his HS stats (for the media guide) he had no clue, neither did the coach that recruited him.

The only thing the pitching coach knew and remembered was HOW many innings he pitched that year, so don't think that stat is NOT important.

I've seen a coach with a personal agenda cook the books to favor a certain player and correspondingly lower the stats of those viewed as "competition" to the favored player. Thankfully, at least one of the dissed players was vindicated in the end with a scholarship offer far exceeding anything received by "golden boy."

I've also been in a situation where a player's parents were asked to keep the official stats. For reasons unbeknownst to me, they lowered son's batting average by about 100 points. (We know because we kept stats too and believe me, son's average was not helped by fielder's choice or reaches on error.) The coach was focused on coaching and was oblivious to the situation until it was brought to his attention.

Hopefully, these examples are exceptions rather than the rule.

With son being a pitcher, I have been told by several programs that stats don't matter as much as ratios...Like K's to Innings, and BB's to IP, or WHIP...of course these stats are guaged against the big stat of MPH

There is one stat that matters for pitchers or any other player---"is he a winnner?"

i dont think high school stats really make a difference anymore. if the recruiters happen to see them over the summer at a showcase or tournament, and they like them, then they'll usually take them. i had 2 kids this year sign DI letters of intent due to how they did over the summer, not how high school went.

Just to add to the mix

Son throws low to mid 80's
6'0 165 2007 LHP
Did not win any awards junior year (all anything)

Did sign early with a D1 school because of
"Great Upside, Outstanding Potential".

This is why the school wanted him. It had
nothing to do with stats!

With so many variables involved, high school stats are just not indicative of what the player can do at the next level. I think this is the main reason college coaches and pro scouts put very little into the player’s high school stats. Just by reading these posts, most think that home cooked stats, short fields, and weak pitching result in great batting averages and lots of home runs but that is not always true either. High school stats just don’t always reveal a player’s ability one way or the other --- just as “theygrowupfast” post indicates. I’ll give you another example. My son only hit three home runs as a senior in high school yet he was courted by colleges and drafted out of high school as a power hitter. Thank goodness they didn’t look at stats! I mighty add that he hit three times as many home runs as a freshman in the SEC as he did as a senior in high school.
Fungo

Great story, Fungo! Similar stories can be found toward the bottom of the "Mental Toughness" thread in the General Items forum.