Players that didn't make HS teams

www.txraiders.com

Gotta love it, same thing different year. Trying to bilk that last dollar, out a parent/player that can't, "do it".

 

Sorry, for the honesty. This just gets old

You're saying if you don't make your HS team, in every case you should hang it up?

Not at all, stop preying on those. That do not

Will never understand why outfits like this are seen as unsavory or unethical?  They simply see a niche in the free market and seek to fill it by providing a service?  Those who pay money are simply willing purchasers of said service.  I call it entrepreneurial spirit?  And I always scratch my head at what is so darn wrong with providing a paid service where a kid, any kid, can keep the dream alive and play baseball for one more year? 

 

Caveat emptor and good luck!

From the website I see there is a $500 deposit due upon "acceptance".  

It's $775 for 13u/14u.  I'm assuming the $500 deposit is part of the $775.

So assuming you have 12 kids on a team that's about $9600 for each team.

 

Is this unreasonable for 20-25 games, umpire fees, field fees, cap/shirt for each player, etc?

 

If Txraiders is taking parents money for false hopes then we need to include some other organizations. 

 

From the webiste:

 

• Did not make their respective HS team
• HS does not have a baseball program
• Players rehabbing injury and needing reps (with permission from their HS Coach if needed)

• Play a circuit of DFW-based small private schools and home school associations
• Play 20-25 games
• Season will run from February through April.  Exact dates TBD. 
• Professional coaching
• Access to the Texas Raiders baseball training facility
• A jersey and cap is provided
• Team insurance

• A final budget will be worked out prior to games starting and will be determined in part on size of roster(s).
• A $500 deposit is required immediately upon acceptance onto the team.

Im too am not sure why its unethical.  There are many kids who don't make a HS team and want to continue to play until their travel season starts.  I see nothing wrong with an organization stepping in to fill that void.  At the frosh level at our HS we cut 3-4 kids for every kid who makes the team.  Most of the kids cut also play travel ball.  Many of them will band together and practice while they are waiting on the HS season to end but in the end they are behind those kids who are playing in games once the travel season starts.  Im sure if they were given the opportunity to play somewhere they would jump at the chance.

Just because a player doesn't make their HS team doesn't mean you should hang it up. My son played for a club team that had some players that didn't make their HS teams and went on to play in college. They just happened to go to very competitive HS (5A at the time, now 6A) teams. In fact, some of the players on those same HS programs didn't go on to play college, and these boys did. 

 

Programs like the Raiders offer these boys that love the game an opportunity to continue to improve their skills, while pursuing that dream to play in college. That is why TCS Post Grad is becoming very successful for HS graduates as well.

 

Remember, there is also a lot of politics at the HS level as well, and not all the best players make those teams. We had a boy who the coach never played, except for 2 innings in a non-district game. He went on to pitch for a DII school, and our HS team MVP went on to a local Community college.

 

Something like Complete Showcase, where my son has gone, has college coaches from NAIA to D1 who can provide an evaluation of a players skill level, and from their you can get a better assessment of your son's skill level than what you will get from a HS coach at a tryout. 

 

I coach our HS JV team and I am always amazed at some of the BS reasons one kid's baseball career is allowed to continue with the varsity transition, and how another kid's career is terminated.  I see it every year as my freshman/sophomores head up to varsity to try out and are cut for non-baseball reasons. Sadly, politics do play a role on EVERY team, to a degree.  It helps to have skills but to say all coaches keep kids dream alive on HS rosters based solely on their skill set is naïve.  I see it with my own eyes every year.  But hey, it's the varsity coach's team and his discretion.  Just as my JV team is mine and at my discretion.  Life ain't fair.

 

Which then brings the opportunity for a niche to be filled by teams like these Texas Raider guys.  Makes sense to me.  I 've seen plenty of my JV guys who are cut from varsity who have plenty of baseball left in them.  JMO. 

In my son's case, he turns 15 before the cut off date for 14U. He's only an 8th grader. It gives him games and reps while he what's for summer ball to start instead of sitting around and just doing bull pins and cage hitting.  I do see politics in high school ball. I see it every year at our school. Some of the best players don't even start. Some of it has to do with their attitude, but others it has to do with who their parents are. This is a great program!

Politics,,, really? If that is the case, then name the high school varsity coach that is basing his decisions, on such. I think that everyone here, would appreciate that information. I find it hard to believe, that a high school head coach would give up wins, to appease some booster club parent.

99.9% of the high school varsity coaches do their job to the best of their ability. To blame attitude, or politics is a cop out, for lack of a solid skill set. 

As with any of life's paths, attitude is the second most important, to ability. Attitude can sometimes be changed, ability, is what it is. If a coach has three players with like ability, he generally will go to the intangibles. Attitude, effort level, grades, etc. This is not politics, it is coaches making what they feel is the best decision for their respective programs. JMHO

My opinion is based upon a couple of situations.

First: I know of one young man that played on one of the "second chance" teams, several years ago. He was  a 15u eighth grader, that is home schooled. He now plays for a THESA, and is still part of our program. Not the best financial situation, for this particular player. His mother was so disappointed in the second chance experience, that she removed him after the first few weeks. She felt getting to practice with our 14u team, for free, was more beneficial than what second chance offered. 

Second: I know of another young man, that never made his hs varsity team. This from one of the biggest, and best high school programs, in NTX. He got cut his freshman year. Played Summer/Fall ball, made the team as a Soph/Jr played JV. Got cut his senior year, after hitting several bombs his rising senior summer. One in Marietta, at PG with a wood bat. Maybe politics were involved, probably not. The varsity coach told him it was his lack of defensive ability, and work effort with that aspect. 

If you were to ask him today, I bet he would more than likely agree with the coaches assessment.

 

Call out HC really?You don't see that not following your kid.If thats done.I call out our HC here time and again.Others here Know exactly who the guy is.But Nameing him is a whole other level.If we are going to start "calling out" coaches wouldn't be all be better off doing this with the travel programs?My 2016 is committed his HS VC was/is totally irrevalant in the process.While RC at travel ball had to be told back off and shut your mouth.As bad as our situation has been and continues to be with HC I still believe this is NOT the norm.Nowhere even close.And YES politices are huge here and all arounds us.

Call out HC really?You don't see that not following your kid.If thats done.I call out our HC here time and again.Others here Know exactly who the guy is.But Nameing him is a whole other level.If we are going to start "calling out" coaches wouldn't be all be better off doing this with the travel programs?My 2016 is committed his HS VC was/is totally irrevalant in the process.While RC at travel ball had to be told back off and shut your mouth.As bad as our situation has been and continues to be with HC I still believe this is NOT the norm.Nowhere even close.And YES politices are huge here and all arounds us.

 

 

 

So, your saying your HS varsity coach sacrifices wins, to play politics with his players?

If that is the case, then this is the wrong forum, to make that accusation. I would suggest the school board, and school AD.

As far as the coach being totally irrelevant, I could not disagree more. The coach receives a small stipend to spend a large amount of time, over 3-4 years to help your son, further his baseball career. And, not just your son, he also has 20-40 other players in his program.

I'll also go as far as to say, you might want that irrelevant coach, to have something positive to say concerning your son's: attitude, character and work ethic. When a college coach calls him, to evaluate your son.

 

Congratulations, on your son's verbal commitment, since that is all that a junior can do until July 1st.

 Some of the best players don't even start. Some of it has to do with their attitude, but others it has to do with who their parents are. 

 

Most coaches play the best players to win. Whenever I've seen accusations of favoritism it's one of three things ...

 

1) The parent is delusional,

2) It might be a tossup between two players. Of course, the parent sees it one way. The coach sees it another.

3) The upperclassmen aren't that good and the coach goes with a youth movement. With the youth movement the team goes 5-15 instead of 7-13 with the upperclassmen.

 

Freshman year my daughter (softball) was assigned to the JV team. I knew she was better than one of the seniors in the outfield. I can understand a senior getting first shot. In four games the senior played her way out of the lineup. My daughter crushed JV pitching and was called up to start for four years.

 

I'll assume you know that most school boards are elected and there by definition are political.  And school administrators can politic with the best of them. 

 

 

I also wonder how many large schools baseball programs have talented kids that don't make the team because of sheer numbers to choose from? 

My bet is that there would be a few that don't make large school teams that could play for small town varsity programs. 

 

That was the situation with my older son.  He did not make the HS team.  There is no question in my mind that if we were at another school he would make the team.  Our school has a very strong baseball program and they cut 3 to 4 kids for everyone who makes it their Frosh year.  There are 2 Frosh level teams that carry 14 kids each, so you have about 90 to 100 kids trying out every year.  Most of these kids play travel ball and many are good players.  Its simply a numbers game.

Wow.  Some strong opinions here!  I am going to throw a lifeline to old school here.  Outside of the good point RJM made that there may be times a youth movement is in order and there is very little difference anyway I have never been an eyewitness to anything political in the sense of what I am hearing here.  One year I will confess we kept an extra player.  We made our decisions of who we wanted on the freshman team then kept one more.  A teachers kid.  Yes I guess that was political.  But he didn't take anyone else's spot.  It was simply do we keep him in addition or do we not.  Also he basically never played so playing time was not taken away either. He basically became our bullpen catcher.  Was that right?  Probably not.  But bottom line in over 20 years of coaching high school baseball and basketball that is the ONLY 'political' incident I have been involved in or even aware of.  I understand that all areas of the country can be unique but it is really hard for me to imagine any competitive coach picking a team for any reason other than to win.  Joes87 I know we come from the same area although I have sinced moved away.  According to something I read online recently it is the third best 'area' (forget how they divided areas but it included my home town of Joliet as well as Naperville) for producing professional baseball players.  So I know there are people on here that are from great baseball traditions but I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what great baseball looks like.  Joliet is a baseball hotbed.  I coached at both of the best baseball schools there (at the time - not sure what the landscape is like today) and I can tell you we certainly cut kids every year that could have played at many high schools around the country.  But could they have played college ball or been drafted?  I guess we may never have that answer but I don't think so.  We did have one kid who split time at 1st base his freshman year who eventually got drafted by the dodgers.  So we were deep but our cuts probably were not college material.  I think old school isn't saying these organizations don't have a right to exist.  Just that it is sad they lead kids on for profit.  I am not a horatio alger kind of guy.  I know we all have our own amazing underdog stories but folks those are very few and far between.  I don't think there are a whole lot of D1 potential kids being cut by high school teams.  And when you get to D2 and D3 I am not trying to be disrespectful but while some are great programs others will take you if you can walk and chew gum to boost enrollment and fill out a team.  All that having been said if a kid has a realistic outlook and just wants to play a little more baseball because he loves it - fantastic.  And there is absolutely nothing wrong with not giving up in fact it is admirable right up to the point where it becomes foolish and sad!  Drawing that line can be hard.

There are a bunch of reasons that a player does not play on his HS team. These can be home schooling, family issues, not getting along with HS coaches or incompetent coaches, discipline issues, grades etc. We have seen kids/parents post here regarding this subject over the years, some were talented players that went on to college ball. I know in Cal, Mike Spiers (RIP) at ABD had a HS league going for players who had these issues, however since his passing I am not sure if this was continued at ABD. There was a lot of discussion about leagues like this turning into what has happened to soccer, where most college recruiting is done at the club level, but this was not his intent at the time. Anyway I just wanted to point this out that there are reasons beyond talent.  

http://baseballnews.com/lamber...o-1-pre-season-poll/

 

St Rita #18

Joliet Catholic #26

       
       
Thanks so much for putting that up.  Don't do as good a job as I should of keeping up with the old hometown!  So proud of Jared.  Great kid.  I coached him my first year when I was a student teacher and had absolutely no idea what I was doing!  So his coaching success certainly has nothing to do with me!  You have me missing that level of baseball now...  I am going to commit myself to make a road trip, visit family and take my son to a Joliet Catholic game maybe vs. Providence or how about the St. Rita game that could be fun!

       
       
Point well taken.

Wow. If you actually coach and this isn't just satire, you are probably the biggest sack of crap assistant of all time. Way to lob accusations at your head coach anonymously. I'm sure your attitude isn't part of the program's problem. It's all the HC politics.

Remember folks, the OP was about teams for kids who did not make their respective HS team?  Early on Oldschool79 suggested these alternative teams were simply another way to "bilk" more money from families/players who weren't good enough to play for their HS team?  I don't believe I am misquoting there?

 

I took the bait there to say that too often travel/showcase organizations who provide opportunities for kids to play are quickly labeled as unethical, or money hungry, or shady?  I trust in two things:  the consumer to be smart enough to know how to spend their money, and I also trust in the free market.  Caveat emptor,  and if the outfit is truly shady and unethical and their product is not worth the money?  Then the natural forces of the market will come into play and they won't be in business very long.

 

Now as far as "politics" goes?  I realize this word is the 3rd rail of HSBBW.  I said there were JV kids that who headed up to varsity and didn't make the cut for BS reasons.  I make my recommendations to HC and provide any insight I may have. HC knows very well my feelings about one player over another.   But at the end of the day it's his team and his program, and I lose no sleep over it.  I even said in my previous post, "It's his team and his discretion." 

 

Politics is in the eye of the beholder.  But I do know for a fact that if you have two players of EQUAL ability?  And only one can make team and or play?  The one whose parent is a major booster will most likely get the nod.  And you know what?   I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that.  I said already, it's the HC's discretion, it's his team, not mine.  Besides chances are that booster parent not only donates hard earned and much needed dollars each season, but they are also the ones who are there for the car washes, and rewiring of the scoreboard, and manning the concession stand.  And I have no problem with keeping the kid from that family if I am HC and this is my program and I believe that I need families like the one the kid I'm keeping comes from.  The other kid who is just as good but his family does squat for my program?  Sorry.  I got not problem with that, but isn't that "politics?"  Perhaps it is "Realpolitik" as Henry Kissenger called it.  Meaning "there is a certain reality" that is at play and it is not as simple as "I play the best player who will get me the win."  Not in HS anyway.

 

Which then leads us to the kid who got cut in this hypothetical.  The kid who lost out to the more active booster family kid.  What does he do if he still wants to play baseball?  That's the kid we are talking about.  What does that kid do?  Where can he play?  Well, if he can afford the fees for Texas Raiders I guess he can go there.  But if his parents don't do squat for his HS program, chances are they won't be ponying up the cash for a private "Raiders" like program either.  So I guess this kid's baseball days are over? 

 

Like I said earlier, "oh well. Life ain't fair." 

 

 

 

 

Nice Ironhorse, my thoughts exactly

What is wrong with his observation?  

I personally saw politics in my sons first year of high school.  And I will see it again this year.  

I also see at work (in spades).  It's part of life.  

 

 

My 2016 LHP has not made the high school team in his first two years. As a freshman, every kid who made the JV team either played football or wrestled (varsity/jv coaches also coached those sports). He was told he needed to be playing travel baseball, which he did as the only 15-year-old (and non-high school player) on a 16U team. The travel coach, who also coaches a jv team at rival high school, questioned why he didn't make it because they played against my son's high school and didn't see too many players better.

 

As a sophomore, JV coach moved up to Varsity hc, he is last player cut. He is told by the Varsity coach he has the best pitching mechanics of anyone; however, he is told by the JV coach he is too one dimensional and could only see him as a pitcher. JV coach's son and 5 guys from his travel team make the squad. So my son plays a shorten Big League schedule with the local little league, and plays travel. He ends up being seen by college coaches. He has now made three colleges (DII and DIII) interested and all three coaches can't understand why he isn't on his high school team. One coach is interested in him as an outfielder after seeing him play. Talked to him about what a great eye he has and how he gets a great jump on the ball.

 

There is plenty of politics in hs ball no matter how big the school.

 

 

 

 

       
       
What is your son's velocity?  Did they gun pitchers in tryouts?  I do believe there is incompetence out there in abundance.  And one of the signs of incompetence is thinking a PO is not worth having on a baseball team.  Most of the kids drafted out of my high school as pitchers were PO's.  And I know this site covers the entire nation so there are no doubt some 'political' climates out there somewhere.  But still I have to tell you I am 52 years old and have spent my entire life around coaches and athletes and this idea that coaches would cut talented kids for 'political' reasons is insane to me.  I just have never ever seen it.  The only thing close I have seen is keeping a kid who is baseball only or basketball only (depending what sport you are coaching of course) over the three sport athlete figuring you will get a more dedicated player who will be better in the long run.  But even for this the skills must be comparable.   You wouldn't cut a superstar three sport athlete to keep a marginal one sport guy.

If your kid doesn't make the team, they need further instruction in hitting or pitching.

 

I don't see how yet another season of ball helps them.

 

Spend your money on high quality instruction that measures increases in exit speed or pitch speed.  Stay away from instructors that don't measure you, and only say nice things.

JBoss,

I see coaches all the time gravitate towards kids they have exposure to, either through travel ball, fall or summer HS ball, or other sports.  They get to know these kids as athletes and people and if they like what they see these kids will get the benefit of the doubt over a kid who parachutes in for a few days of tryouts and doesn't knock anyone's socks off. It doesn't mean the kid trying out isn't worthy, but people give chances to those they know.  This is common sense and applies to work and life in general.  It's counter-productive to blame this on politics.  If you know the coach operates this way your kid needs to get into his orbit and make things happen for himself.

I am sorry if my attitude along with a couple others on this thread who can speak for themselves is to automatically be filled with suspicion the minute I hear the word political.  As a long time coach I have been hearing that word all my life and it gets irritating.  And 95% of the time it seems to be coming from the mouth of a malcontent who's kid is cut or is on the team but not featured the way they would like.  In the countless times I have sat with coaching staffs to discuss who should make a team, or who should start or play what position etc.  Never once did a coach step up and say, well I know that Joe over here is a great pitcher and can throw 95mph but we better start Johnny in that regional game because his dad donates a gazillion dollars to the school.  NEVER have I been witness to a kid who was better being CUT to accommodate a friend of the school.  Have I seen a few instances where kids who maybe shouldn't have made the team did make the team sure.  But never at the expense of another kid.  And yes folks that is a reality of life.  You are at a private school and the multi millionaire parents fork over a 200k donation their kid is making the team.  But in cases like that they are never part of the cut/keep conversation.   Its understood they are in.  Then you talk about the actual team you want.  It's like that kid was never at tryouts and he is NOT taking anyone's spot.  And did you ever consider this...  much of the time that kid is good enough anyway so it is a non factor.  As I said in another post I can only remember one time ever we kept a kid who probably wasn't good enough.  And nobody else got cut to 'make room' for him.

I've been called political, racist, stupid, or just don't like a certain kid. Despite the fact that I have starters who's parents I couldn't recognize, have a very diverse team, and I'm mean to everyone just so no one thinks I like them. Now I may be stupid, but that's more God's fault than mine.

 

In reality, people usually have an agenda and make the facts fit what they want to believe rather than the reverse. Why admit your kid isn't good enough when you can just take the easy way out and blame someone else?

Fastball was gunned at 74-77 mph with his change up at 62-65 and curve at 64-67.

The varsity coach knew my son through two years of pre-season workouts and campus ministry. During tryouts last year the pitching coaching told my son he loved his stuff and couldn't wait to work with him during the season. He also saw him starting for JV or coming out of the pen for the varsity. Said not to worry, he had earned a place on the squad.

I suppose now we would need to know more about the team.  The team I coach now would definitely keep a lefty in the 74 - 77 range.  We also would keep a righty in the 74 - 77 range.  Why?  Cause we don't make cuts and we don't have much pitching!  At top notch schools I have coached at in the past?  Chances are shakey at best.  The thing that is puzzling me now is how can you have 'the best mechanics on the team' but only throw 74 - 77?  Doesn't make sense.  Is he not getting downhill fast enough?  Your son seems to be a very borderline varsity player.  At weaker programs he would shine.  At stronger programs he is probably a cut.  And at programs somewhere between he is borderline.  When you are borderline a lot goes into the equation.  My opinion is he get some qualified instruction (anyone who doesn't use video is probably unqualified) and get that velocity north of 80.  As I have stated there is always a small college somewhere that will take on a lefty project.  BUT...  and I don't mean to be harsh but at those numbers you can not rationally think he is a college 'prospect' at this point.  And if your high school baseball program is strong there is also no 'political' case to be made either.  Your son was cut because.he only throws in the mid 70's plain and simple.  Good news is there is still time if he works hard.  If he can get in the lower 80's even there will be some takers somewhere.  But then he can not.be picky about where he goes as his choices will be few.  He needs to at least get to mid 80's if he wants to be more widely recruitable.  This is not an impossible task by any means.  And some kids go to a juco and then gain mph.  So that could be a route as well.  If he loves it and wants it he should never give up.  But at the same time it is time to point the thumb and not the finger.  Realize he is not where he needs to be right now and do what it takes to get there.  We have a lefty who was at 74 as a freshman last year.  Played jv and will most likely play jv again.  He has gotten some instruction over the offseason so we are hoping he will be closing in on 80 as a sophomore.  We are cautiously optimistic.  If he comes back at 74 - 77 it will be a bit of a downer.  And he has a killer change also.  Being lefty can mitigate an mph or 2 but not 10.

Bring your lefty throwing 74-77 to our school and he will start on our varsity!  

       
       
Lol.  Probably us too as I stated.  But in fairness we are desparate for pitching.  And just for a little perspective my son's 13u team may have three kids who are in low 70's this year and we will face some kids mid 70's and maybe even pushing 80.  That's 4 years away from normal varsity age.  So mid 70's righty or lefty just ain't gonna make it at a strong program.

No, but for those kids who are very strong baseball players at small schools they are hampered by not being challenged like being at a large school. 

There is a junior at a small high school (~200 enrollment) near me that is throwing 87 mph.  What is the chance that he could start at a large school?  He is also the best SS I've ever witnessed at a high school level.