Players that didn't make HS teams

 

Hampered in what way?  If you believe that college recruiting occurs mainly from summer/fall teams, then this situation won't matter.  It may cost him some bragging rights as far as claims to being the best SS or pitcher around, but that's about all.

What are his chances of making it at a big high school?  Is that the question?  At 87mph I would say roughly 100%  if you are saying nobody is pushing him there so it lessens his chances at a big D1 I would say that is up to him to push himself toward that goal.  Showcases don't care what town you are from the performance speaks for itself so I am a bit confused.

At my son's high school (when he was there) a junior throwing 74-77 would get some innings on JV behind the top varsity prospects. He would get a uniform and a seat on the bench senior year for sticking it out.

 

Now for the politics: My son was the starting point guard on the freshman basketball team. Sophomore year I came home from work and asked if there were any surprise cuts. My son responded, "Yeah, me!"

 

A asked what happened. He said he had no idea. But he intended to ask the next day. He added I once said he may have to drop a sport to work on baseball in the off season (also played soccer). That sport was just picked for me. 

 

That night I ran into the basketball coach at the grocery store. He's a friend so I approached him. He said my son was already playing varsity soccer. It was accepted he would be playing varsity baseball that spring. He didn't like my son didn't play in a summer basketball league and attend any off season "optional" basketball workouts. He said it was obvious my son doesn't have the extra time to commit to basketball. The reality was only one basketball player played a second sport, much less a third. That kid was 6'7", 220 and now playing college football.

 

For three years my son went to the basketball games and sat with the rowdies. I went and sat with parents. Neither one of us said anything but "it's over" when asked about him being cut. He played in the town rec high school league with a lot of other good athletes. JV basketball players were allowed to play. My son was the best player in the league. That led to more questions from parents. My only response, "We're past that."

 

It really doesn't do much good to complain. It makes you look like a whiner even if you're right. Having the winter off to workout was the best thing that ever happened to my son's baseball game.

Hampered by not facing the best competition which i would assume larger schools would see. 

The kid plays American Legion but probably won't be noticed by many colleges.  Hopefully the kid will make a few showcase tournaments. 

is there not an agressive schudule?For our area we are a small school.thats mage up for with the schedule.

I completely agree with the politics. My son made the team last year but didn't as a sophomore. We were told that his skills had not improved. He had a very solid tryout. His high school team took  child that has never played baseball over my son that has played since he was four years old. The reason I say it is political is because there were several incidents last year where a few of the parents had to go to the principal on issues with some of the kids. I truly believe that my son was cut for this reason. He does play club ball and does very well. I told him not to hang his head or get down about not making his team but it is really sad that other factors that don't have anything to do with baseball I would keep you from making your team.

Help me understand... so is the logical assumption here correct that your son was involved in the incidents?

Yes, being bullied and picked on. There were several occasions when things happened in the locker room with several kids, not just mine. We addressed them with the coach but nothing was done so we had to go to the principal. None of the other parents would go to the coach in fear of losing playing time or a position.

I wonder if a kid can confuse freshman initiation to bullying?  

I saw yesterday that this thread was resurrected.   Told myself that I would not give it another bump just to say the same things I have already said.  But since now it seems to be alive again...  I would just say this, I want just one person who is a victim of 'politics' to show me an actual PG or PBR or equivalent profile detailing their son as a quality high school player.  When I see a pitcher who throws 80+ or a hitter with an 83mph exit velocity or something concrete to indicate an ability to succeed at the high school level then perhaps we can discuss how his cutting was political.

My kid does all you mentioned but was cut from exposing bullying, theft, and drug use within the program. It's  more than political, its retaliation..

       
       
Care to share the profile?  Or are we guessing?  Then I suppose we would have to know how good is the program.  Where I coach we have only one mid 80's guy and one more pushing 80 hopefully will be there this year.  At my alma mater they have 2 90+ guys another in upper 80's and god knows how many low to mid 80's.   Say 81 or 82 may legitimately not be good enough there while where I coach we would be begging for him.

jolietboy,

 

We just watched a kid yesterday who is a junior at an Illinois HS.  He did not play HS last year as a sophomore, he was cut.  He has since transferred to another HS.  He plays for one of the top travel teams in Illinois.

 

On the mound he was a consistent 90 mph topping out at 92.  And he was arguably the best hitter there, as well.

 

Seems like a very nice kid that everyone speaks highly about.  Not sure why he was cut from the HS team.  Can't say it was political.  I would assume this kid would be one of, if not the best, player at most high schools, yet he was cut.  Fortunately it won't effect his future.  

I don't have to share a profile with you
..I know what my kid has and completed the college evaluations at UTSA and a few other CC last year. I'm on the blog to see other legitimate options as get opinions how to proceed. Velocity was not a factor since they took 2 kids who have never played baseball before.

Fact was we exposed wrong doing and some kids now have misdemeanors on their records. We have a hard time transferring schools in our state because of UIL. No doubt he would be on Varsity at a neighboring high school.

       
       
That is an amazing story.  I know you can't disclose names etc.  But it would be facsinating to know the back story on that one.  Did he have a 10mph bump in one year?  Grow 5 inches?  Something really unusual must have happened.

       
       
You are correct you don't have to share anything with me.  And velocity always matters.  I am currently in the process of hunting down 6'4" types in our hallways and begging them to give pitching a try.  I would keep any one of them who have never played over any one of our established 68mph pitchers.  Potential is better than knowing its not there!  So here is the bottom line.  In my 20+ years I still have yet to see a kid cut for 'political' reasons.  And certainly never for 'retaliation'.  Not saying it can never happen but without hard evidence it's awfully hard to believe.  But you seem very angry about this so do what every other angry american does.  Sue them.  But then you better be able to make a solid case that he is a quality player who CLEARLY should have made the team.

Not angry, disappointed. You're delusional if you think it doesn't happen. Because adults make the right decisions all the time. If we hadn't bumped heads with the school board's president's son who is also booster president, we wouldn't be in this situation. His kid made varsity with a velocity of 65. Not interested in suing, that's silly. Looking for other options. Not looking for arguments with 'adults' who don't know the full situation.

       
       
So in one short paragraph you insinuated I am dilusional and also put my 'adult' status in quotes.  Mentioned I don't know the whole situation (which I don't partially because you don't want to make disclosures, which is your right) and then proceeded to say you are not looking for an argument.   Well I am relieves to hear that!  Good luck and I hope you enjoy this site.  It can be a lot of fun.

I agree that politics play a larger part in high school athletics than parents understand.  There is a reason our Varsity has a 5'-6" player at SS who one hops it to 1B about 50% of the time.  Oh and he is the coaches son who has played Varsity since he was a freshman.  Good player but not a SS. 

 

Since my understanding is that college baseball recruiting happens at showcases I don't see how not playing for a high school team will help or hurt. 

       
       
Lion as I have said before there are rare occasions when someone MAKES a team from something political.  I could maybe even see some instances when someone plays MORE than they should.  I think the coaches kid thing is dangerous.  It is a really hard thing to pull off.  Don't know what I will do in two years when that time comes.  But usually I think the coach honestly believes his kid deserves his playing time.  Almost always parents disagree.  In some cases I am sure the parents are correct in others the coach.  But this is not politics it is clouded judgement.  But the one thing I have still NEVER seen is a kid getting CUT for 'political' reasons.

I've never been mugged but believe muggers exist and won't tell someone complaining about being mugged that it didn't happen.

My son was only one of two 6th graders to make his MS team and by the end of the year was starting at SS over an assistant coaches 8th grade son. In 7th grade he was starting SS, number 1 pitcher, and 3 hole hitter. I have no sour grapes with his middle school coach at all. Now with that said he cut a top five player because he had a problem with his older brother in class. He kept several teachers kids who were horrible and since he had a set number of roster spots he cut much better ball players for it. He allowed a cousin of his to never come to practice and still start, yet benched a really good player for missing a practice because his was sick. He disliked this kid because of his mom. Point is this coach has never giving me any reason to dislike him yet I still see his political and personal BS decisions he makes.

I truly believe after 20+ years of coaching multiple sports at all kinds of levels that most crys of political are just whining and excuse making. But there is no way I'm gonna say it never happens. Coaches are humans. Some humans are horrible people. In a country this big there is no way your not gonna run into some coaches that are horrible people.

^^^ I completely agree. We've never been the whiney type. Parents will complain about everything. We never brought forth a baseball (on the field) issue. They were all behavioral issues. We never complained about playing time, etc.

Unfortunately I am having a hard time figuring out how to copy and paste on my phone...  but you won't have to look far to see my statement earlier "not saying it can't happen but without hard evidence it is awfully hard to believe."  And I would bet all I own and all I can borrow that there are far more muggings than kids who get cut for 'political' reasons!!

Politics is involved in everything.  But I tend to agree more with what Scotty83 wrote.

 

There is good, bad. and ugly in everything.  Coaching is not exempt from that.

 

We see lots of things that are unexplainable in my mind.  Not necessarily political issues, but strange things.

 

One example was the kid I referred to earlier and here is another... Today I watched a 6'5/250 RHP throw in the mid 90s with a very advanced breaking ball and changeup.  He is easily an early round prospect, maybe even first round.  His biggest hurdle is he doesn't have much of a pitching history compared to the other highest profile pitchers in this years draft. WHY?... Because he just started pitching last fall. He has been pitching for less than 6 months. He will be entering our top 50 rankings in the nation by the next update.  This was the first time we have seen him pitch.

 

So I ask... He is from a small HS in the upper midwest, how does he get to this point without ever pitching?  Wouldn't you think one of his coaches somewhere along the way would have noticed his arm and his body?  This stuff happens more than you would think.  One year our #1 ranked prospect for the draft, threw about 6 innings for his HS team.  Maybe they didn't really need him, but he was drafted early in the first round.  I can only think about that old saying... Can't see the forest because of the trees... or something like that.

 

Anyway, I do think politics is often used as an excuse when maybe it is more about stupidity than politics.

 

 

 

"...politics is often used as an excuse when maybe it is more about stupidity than politics."

 

          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

True in almost any human activity, including politics itself.

From the day my kids started playing organized sports at age seven through college I believe I've heard the accusations of politics at every level every year. Most often the parents making the accusation don't have an unbiased view of their kid. Often times they don't understand the sport. Sometimes the parents accuse the coach of not having a clue. 

 

The politics rant is an annual event at almost every level for the parents of the top three to five players who get cut. Most often the truth is it's about talent. Sometimes it's about a coach not wanting to deal with the kid's personality/behavior or that of his parents.

 

Some parents can't see potential and scream politics. Back when my son was in high school one of our rivals was coming off a bad season. The coach started his freshman son at catcher. The kid was mediocre on his best days. Even some parents of players on the team were whispering politics. Imagine what the parents of cut kids were saying. After junior year the kid verballed with a major conference D1.

 

When looking closely at the teams my kids have played on in middle school through college I haven't always agreed with the coach's decision on talent. But I could see where he was coming from. I just saw the talent a different way. When this happens to kids who get cut or don't play their parents tend to scream "politics."

 

I've already warned my kids they will never be chairman of the board of The Ford Motor Company. There are politics involved. They're not a Ford. That's life. Get over it. Find another avenue for success and happiness.

I'm with the others. Politics happen but 99% of the time it's used as an excuse by parents of kids who are cut or are not getting as much playing as the parent wants. My 2017 was the starting center  on the A basketball team. We also have a 6'9" sophomore center who is pretty athletic and was moved up to the Varsity team. After 3 games he was moved back down to the sophomore team. He took over my kids starting spot. Now my kid gets about 8 or 9 minutes in the A game and about 10 in the B game. Before he didnt even dress for the B game. 

 

The player who is now the number 3 center no longer gets playing time in the A game, and splits the remaining 18 or so minutes of playing time in the B game with the 4th center. As far as I am concerned my kid got beat out. Right now my kid is a stronger player in the paint but you can't beat height on a basketball court.  Plus long term this kid is going to be one tough player once he puts on some weight. I completely get what the coaches are after. 

 

Funny thing is is all you hear out of #3 centers parents is how politics is keeping their son down. According to them both 6'9" center and my son played AAU ball with the coaches son since 6th grade; they are favored because they are friends with the coaches son. They don't see that their son is constantly out of position or is running the wrong play.  He has a base skill set but is horrible at "seeing the court" and understanding the flow of the game. Plus he misses practice at least once a week. Yet "it's all politics, man"

 

 

If you let your kid believe that "politics" is the sole reason that something didn't go his way, you're actually teaching that his goals are beyond his reach, and that he has no influence on his own future.

 

What a horrible thing to do to your kid.

Isn't that the inverse of each other?  Assuming limited spots, if one kids makes a team via politics then someone has to be cut via "politics." 

I've seen extra kids added. I've never seen these kids replace anyone.

       
       
Nope not at all.  We never filled every single available uniform.  So it would be as I said before just start with that kid then pick your real team.

I know a kid around these parts who was cut from a certain powerhouse team last year as a junior. Great kid. Loves the game.  Loved playing for this team on JV his first two years.  Was broken hearted over being cut. His (extraordinarily hot, but also hot tempered)  Mom swore up and down to everybody who would listen that it was politics. She just had nothing at all good to say about the head coach, the program, etc.  (To be fair, said coach, though extra-ordinarily successful,  is both widely reviled and widely praised, so somewhat of a controversial figure.  So lots of people say about him what the hot, hot-headed mom says.  But lots defend him too.  Plus I was in fact surprised that he was cut.  He played well enough for our travel team that we were all surprised.)

 

Anyway, the kid kept trucking.  Despite not playing at all junior year HS season, he  kept playing for our travel team through summer and fall, he  hit the weight room,  worked really hard on his game with a personal instructor. He was determined to try out again as a senior (and encouraged to do so by our travel coach.) He had no expectations of making it  (which isn't surprising given what he was hearing from his Mom.).  He more wanted to try out to "show" the coach, I gather. 

 

Well, you know what? Coach called him in his office,  congratulated him on his off the chart work ethic, told him he had improved an incredible amount, and gave him a spot on the team.  

 

That's "politics"  for you, I guess. 

       
       
However this coach was clearly in violation of the 'hot mom' rule!  And for the young start up coaches sometimes there is a hot older sister rule as well!  These kids are usually part of the 'political' keep list!  Ladies,  just a little humor here don't hammer me too badly!

Was this his mom?

 

I have some experience on both sides of this issue.  My second and third son's experienced what I would refer to as "Family benefit of the doubt" This is when the oldest plays for a team or coach and succeeds for the team and coach in every aspect of the game.  My second and third sons went into tryouts and all the coaches knew who they were, and to an extent their "baseball pedigree" of travel programs etc.  I firmly believe that each of them would have made the team based on that alone (assuming they didn't totally implode) and then garner playing time based on their talent, attitude and work in practice and on the field.  Did they get preferential treatment, probably...is that politics...eh...not totally sure.  In our neck of the woods where you are fighting snow and cold and winds at 30 mph it is the rare year that coaches get the opportunity to really evaluate talent the way they should (On the field). Most times it is watching fielding of incrediballs in the gym, pitching from a wooden mound covered with astro-turf and batting in the cage against a jugs and occasionally a coach. So after two weeks when they have to make all of the cuts playing for a summer team with a good reputation, having a brother that came through the program or simply knowing the coach and not being annoying can give a player the opportunity to be viewed more favorably.  I am not sure it is intentional it is just that unless there is a huge delta in talent, and usually at the cut line there isn't, it is like a civil trial..."based on the preponderance of evidence" whatever form that may take in a coaches mind they make decisions.  

 

I also have a 5th son who tried out last year at a new school and had to establish himself from scratch.  He made the team and is now well entrenched in the lineup but I saw people cut because someone on the local travel team was rated higher, or because a brother had come before.  

 

All of this to say that the information available to coaches is limited and most try to do the best, fairest job they can.  I am certain that there are places where politics are very real and impact decisions but at times the allegations of politics although looking very similar may really be the coaches best attempt at being fair based on the limited sample of data they have available.

"More stupidity than politics" is a great way to look at it. At 2018's Freshman game on Saturday: pre-game speech - "We have 19 kids on this team, and every one of you is good enough to start!" (said loud enough for all parents to hear). Post game speech - "If I was allowed to make more cuts, at least 3-4 of you would be gone." Frankly I'd love for them to cut 3-4 kids who clearly don't belong, but two hours before in the coaches speech those kids were equals, "good enough to start". Not exactly a morale builder. 

 

Our schools "politics" tend to be towards MORE kids being on the team than there should be. No huge surprises with who didn't make it - they made cuts, they just didn't make enough of them. Daddy helped mow the grass once - you make the team, even though every rep you take is taking one away from a far more deserving player. 63 kids rostered between Frosh-JV-Varsity, should be around 50 based on actual skill level w/ a few understandable projectable kids kept on.

Wow, this thread is still going?  My apologies to OP who was simply asking for info on alternative club teams a kid could play on in the spring if they "didn't make their HS team." 

 

I am glad to say I was not the first person on this thread to utter the unmentionable P-word, but I was the second to mention it.  Like chum in the water.

 

I have actually enjoyed a lot of the banter back and forth.  It has been thought provoking and some folks have made me question my own thoughts and beliefs.

 

But I'm serious, never again.  The P-word, no longer from this keyboard.

Except for this mom is not "hot", at least from the neck up. 

Yeah, the Mom I have in mind is, for a Mom of the relevant age, extraordinarily hot.  Wouldn't say the same of this one.   But hey, different strokes.... But enough of this meat market talk.