I have heard of two college players at 2 different schools walking away (quitting the team) less than a month before the season starts. These were not cuts. In fact, one probably would have been a starting OF.
How often does this happen? And, typically, do colleges replace the players and how? (In one of these cases, I know the school "brought back" a player who was cut at the end of the fall but who remained at the school.)
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When players have left my sons' programs, they were never replaced. But in most cases they weren't going to play or get very minimal playing time.
5 years of D3 high competitive level. I saw many freshman disappear and couple upper classmen. Only 1 was legit contributor, he was a top core starter. He said he just wasn't interested in the time commitment, he continued to live with players on the team, came to a fair amount of games and was friendly enough with the coaches. I believe they happily would have brought him back...he just wasn't interested anymore.
Honestly, I don't think it is a mystery. College baseball is a huge time commitment, and most people have not experienced that level of commitment at that young age. You either have passion for the game or you don't. Those that thought they had passion for the game sometimes change their minds when college baseball reality kicks in. My son had two former college teammates like that, and they wanted to spend their time on other pursuits. In hindsight, it was the right decision for both of them as they are doing very well in business today.
Both players left after freshman year. Both were replaced by the following Fall.
Could be a lot of things. We have several players dealing with things outside of baseball that are much bigger than baseball. Sometimes it is time, but it can also be pressure, or mind games and coaches. We had players that were drafted that said they could not deal with one more year. I think the answers are all over the place.
And then there are those athletes who use sports to get into a HA university, only to abruptly quit playing once they arrive on campus. While some may consider the time commitment to be too much, some never had any intention of participating and were burned out long ago; were just trying to appease their parents.
My cousin walked away before the season started in track. He decided relative to the ultimate goal he didn’t have time to play a sport anymore. He knew track was over after college (Harvard). He was good enough to earn points in meets. He decided his focus had to be pre med and getting to med school.
I felt my time was owned when I played college ball. My kids said the same thing. We all said we would do it all over again. I can imagine players who don’t expect to see the field feel differently.
@SpeedDemon posted:And then there are those athletes who use sports to get into a HA university, only to abruptly quit playing once they arrive on campus. While some may consider the time commitment to be too much, some never had any intention of participating and were burned out long ago; were just trying to appease their parents.
I have not seen that much, if at all, even with covid. I would hope that a coach could tell which potential recruits were really interested.
Parent
it depends on the players questions to the Coach
coach what are your team goals? Define “inning eater”.
Who is your favorite MLB Manager and why?
Bob
@anotherparent posted:I have not seen that much, if at all, even with covid. I would hope that a coach could tell which potential recruits were really interested.
It’s not something either party advertises, and it’s often done under the guise of “too much of a time commitment”. But it happens frequently.
@Francis7 posted:I have heard of two college players at 2 different schools walking away (quitting the team) less than a month before the season starts. These were not cuts. In fact, one probably would have been a starting OF.
How often does this happen? And, typically, do colleges replace the players and how? (In one of these cases, I know the school "brought back" a player who was cut at the end of the fall but who remained at the school.)
Maybe the players didn't make required GPA?
Can you try to be more specific. What level? Juco, D1, D2, D3?
@SpeedDemon posted:And then there are those athletes who use sports to get into a HA university, only to abruptly quit playing once they arrive on campus. While some may consider the time commitment to be too much, some never had any intention of participating and were burned out long ago; were just trying to appease their parents.
I have seen quite a bit of this at our local HA university. HA student athletes tend to be better at critical thinking than their non HA peers. They often read the room right away and determine that, when they see 80 players on the first day of fall practice and 8 of them play their position, the odds of them ever playing are slim to none. So they make a business decision to skip the futility and move on to something else.
Fairly common actually. Typically the returning soph who knows he won't be playing or the junior without any role or scholarship. Some seniors won't use all their eligibility and just enter the workforce
@adbono posted:I have seen quite a bit of this at our local HA university. HA student athletes tend to be better at critical thinking than their non HA peers. They often read the room right away and determine that, when they see 80 players on the first day of fall practice and 8 of them play their position, the odds of them ever playing are slim to none. So they make a business decision to skip the futility and move on to something else.
I think this absolutely happens, especially at schools with 50+ players. There are cases documented here on HSBBW: https://community.hsbaseballwe...-at-a-smaller-school
But I think there's a difference between a D3 school where the coach is told to bring in as many tuition-paying athletes as possible, and a D3 school where the coach is told he will only be allowed to give admission support to 8-10 players per year. Schools with very low admission rates have to be choosy about which athletes they recruit, and they need those guys to stick with the team. Those are the ones I was talking about, not sure which SpeedDemon meant.
@anotherparent posted:I think this absolutely happens, especially at schools with 50+ players. There are cases documented here on HSBBW: https://community.hsbaseballwe...-at-a-smaller-school
But I think there's a difference between a D3 school where the coach is told to bring in as many tuition-paying athletes as possible, and a D3 school where the coach is told he will only be allowed to give admission support to 8-10 players per year. Schools with very low admission rates have to be choosy about which athletes they recruit, and they need those guys to stick with the team. Those are the ones I was talking about, not sure which SpeedDemon meant.
I had the same reaction @anotherparent. I'm not sure what experiences @SpeedDemon has witnessed. The D3 HA schools (NESCAC) that seriously recruited my son only had 2-3 slots and or 3-4 tips for a given recruiting class for the coaches to bring to admissions. The Ivys that recruited my son had 5-6 slots, and the rest were ED support through admissions. This was 14 years ago, so the numbers may be slightly different.
In all the years I've been involved and following HA college baseball recruiting (D1 or D3) I have yet to run into (or hear about) a situation where the recruit was only interested in baseball for admission purposes. I think these HA coaches have a way of sniffing out that kind of recruit out by offering them a walk-on opportunity if they get by admissions.
Just my experience.
@Consultant posted:Parent
it depends on the players questions to the Coach
coach what are your team goals? Define “inning eater”.Who is your favorite MLB Manager and why?
Bob
What answer would a kid be looking for if he were to ask the mlb manager question?
@fenwaysouth posted:In all the years I've been involved and following HA college baseball recruiting (D1 or D3) I have yet to run into (or hear about) a situation where the recruit was only interested in baseball for admission purposes. I think these HA coaches have a way of sniffing out that kind of recruit out by offering them a walk-on opportunity if they get by admissions.
Just my experience.
I feel like it's an epidemic at the HA D1/D3 schools in the Northeast and at the HA D3 schools in SoCal.
So many athletically talented kids from here in CA head out East, only to quit within a few months. The attrition rate going into sophomore year is even worse.
The kids just don't want to do it anymore. And once they escape the parents influence the truth comes out, quickly.
Not just baseball....all sports.
Dad;
If the College Coach respects the Brandon Hyde of the Orioles then you have a Coach who understand the "big" picture. There are many pressures on a College Coach with the AD, The Alumni, the League officials.
It is similar to operating a Small Business. Counting the 40 players 6 Assistant Coaches, Trainers and the Student Advisors. Division 1 or 2 or 3.
Bob
If you read enough HSBBW threads, you will find it all.
And of course, there was the whole Varsity Blues scandal related to HA "athletes". Weren't many of those people from SoCal?
I haven't observed it on my son's team - seems like everyone loves baseball. But I don't know every case, of course.
I can't recall any HA freshman leaving before their first season. I do know a handful who have left junior or senior year because they were told they wouldn't play or received job offers while still in school. There are a few elite HA kids I know from other sports that couldn't handle the academics and sport and had to make the difficult choice to give up their sport during their freshman year.
@SpeedDemon posted:I feel like it's an epidemic at the HA D1/D3 schools in the Northeast and at the HA D3 schools in SoCal.
So many athletically talented kids from here in CA head out East, only to quit within a few months. The attrition rate going into sophomore year is even worse.
The kids just don't want to do it anymore. And once they escape the parents influence the truth comes out, quickly.
Not just baseball....all sports.
Thanks for sharing. That is eye opening if it is as bad as you say it is.
2/3rds of my son's college team (located on East coast) were recruited from west of the Mississippi, and mostly from Cali. The two players from my son's class that left the program by their sophomore year were both from Cali. I think they saw the writing on the wall in terms of their abilities and skillset. But I don't think there was any intent to deceive the baseball program and admissions, it just didn't work out. One was a highly touted outfielder that thought he was entitled to start freshmen year. His only problem was he couldn't hit college pitching. My son told me there was a large discrepancy between how good he thought he was and how good he really was. He was a slotted recruited athlete. The other guy was a RHP who got shelled in Fall practice, and didn't learn quickly that he is not going to blow it by college hitters. He was a recruited ED walk-on. These were the only two recruited players I remember leaving the program in my son's 4 years.
Back in the day, I did hear a few rumblings at some of the other schools in my son's conference, and knew a few people left their programs. But again, their intention was to play college baseball and attend a world class university. One guy was from our home state, and was a starter his freshmen year. He left the program his sophomore year and I don't know why.
Today, it sounds like things have changed somewhat. That is very disappointing. The Head Coaching in my son's former conference is extremely tenured for HA. Only one coach is new to the school but he had been at a D3 HA for many years. These HCs have seen it all, but not sure how they are dealing with what you describe as historically the conference typically has very little turnover. I'm going to be keeping my eyes and ears open for intent to deceive coaches and admissions.
PS...Your comment about not wanting to do it anymore once they escape the parents influence is also interesting. My nephew got married and few weeks ago, and I was talking to my former college roommate at the wedding venue. His youngest daughter has a verbal commitment to a current PAC-10 school, and he's worried that she is going to rebel because his wife is constantly on her about working out, practice, and keeping grades up. The daughter has the athletic skills but she doesn't have the passion her older sister has in the same sport (currently under full scholarship in Cali). I can understand your comment about not just baseball...all sports applying here.
@fenwaysouth posted:Thanks for sharing. That is eye opening if it is as bad as you say it is.
2/3rds of my son's college team (located on East coast) were recruited from west of the Mississippi, and mostly from Cali. The two players from my son's class that left the program by their sophomore year were both from Cali. I think they saw the writing on the wall in terms of their abilities and skillset. But I don't think there was any intent to deceive the baseball program and admissions, it just didn't work out. One was a highly touted outfielder that thought he was entitled to start freshmen year. His only problem was he couldn't hit college pitching. My son told me there was a large discrepancy between how good he thought he was and how good he really was. He was a slotted recruited athlete. The other guy was a RHP who got shelled in Fall practice, and didn't learn quickly that he is not going to blow it by college hitters. He was a recruited ED walk-on. These were the only two recruited players I remember leaving the program in my son's 4 years.
Back in the day, I did hear a few rumblings at some of the other schools in my son's conference, and knew a few people left their programs. But again, their intention was to play college baseball and attend a world class university. One guy was from our home state, and was a starter his freshmen year. He left the program his sophomore year and I don't know why.
Today, it sounds like things have changed somewhat. That is very disappointing. The Head Coaching in my son's former conference is extremely tenured for HA. Only one coach is new to the school but he had been at a D3 HA for many years. These HCs have seen it all, but not sure how they are dealing with what you describe as historically the conference typically has very little turnover. I'm going to be keeping my eyes and ears open for intent to deceive coaches and admissions.
PS...Your comment about not wanting to do it anymore once they escape the parents influence is also interesting. My nephew got married and few weeks ago, and I was talking to my former college roommate at the wedding venue. His youngest daughter has a verbal commitment to a current PAC-10 school, and he's worried that she is going to rebel because his wife is constantly on her about working out, practice, and keeping grades up. The daughter has the athletic skills but she doesn't have the passion her older sister has in the same sport (currently under full scholarship in Cali). I can understand your comment about not just baseball...all sports applying here.
I don't think it's always intent to deceive, although some 100% are.
It's more that they get to a campus far away from home, realize Dad and Mom can't control things anymore, realize that they're not getting any benefit from their sport (no scholarship), look at the commitment vs other options and say "screw it". Some walk away. Some fake injury or play up minor injuries as an excuse to never compete again.
They are basically walking away from the lifetime of pressure put on them by their parents. They feel they've achieved everything that's been asked of them, and now they have the option to be free. I've seen it again and again.
Terrible situation for the coaches.
@SpeedDemon posted:I don't think it's always intent to deceive, although some 100% are.
It's more that they get to a campus far away from home, realize Dad and Mom can't control things anymore, realize that they're not getting any benefit from their sport (no scholarship), look at the commitment vs other options and say "screw it". Some walk away. Some fake injury or play up minor injuries as an excuse to never compete again.
They are basically walking away from the lifetime of pressure put on them by their parents. They feel they've achieved everything that's been asked of them, and now they have the option to be free. I've seen it again and again.
Terrible situation for the coaches.
I have seen the very same thing. The drive to be successful has to come from within the player. Pressure from parents and/or coaches will not create desire. A player either has it or doesn’t. That’s part of the problem with the hyper focus on reaching metric milestones. Heart/desire can’t be measured at a showcase. It usually takes an experienced baseball person to recognize heart/desire, or lack thereof. But not always.
About fifteen or so years ago I was introduced to Dr Joel Fish through a friend involved in a national movement on youth sports. He’s the head of the Center for Sports Psychology. His organizations clients are the Philadelphia professional teams and several Team USA programs.
But, he told me his largest number of clients were effed up kids who were being driven relentlessly by their parents to succeed on high level travel teams. These were kids from preteen through high school age.
They weren’t enjoying the sport anymore. They wanted to quit. But, since their parents had invested so much time and money in their development they didn’t dare tell their parents.
Ironically, Fish wrote a book on being a sports parent when he realized he was becoming one of “those” parents with his athletically talented daughters.
