Playing HS Ball & Club/Travel Ball At Same Time

Would not let my pitching son to do this, but sure it's ok w many parents.

How many have you seen a kid play for more than one summer team At same time?

I know of a 15u player who rotates around to three.  One is his primary, and he " fills in" on two others. One 3 day when'd he played 6 games, including some pitching(not his primary position). After that weekend he played a few during week in local league. He's also had arm issues-which didn't seem to slow him down.

so, I guess there r all types out there.

surprised 26 states allow it.  Any stories from those that do? ... either good or bad?

Where the heck would you find the time?  When my son played HS baseball (graduated in '12) they had practice or games 6 days a week and by league rule (VHSL) could not play/practice on Sunday.

 

Consider on average school day is 6-6.5 hours, then 2-3 hours practice plus any homework once they get home.  If it's an away game it was 1/2 hour to an hour travel time, 3 hours game and travel time home.  Game time for varsity was either 6 or 7 pm depending on the host school.  Home games were usually at 7 pm.  If it was a home game, the players had to field maintenance to do before coach released them for the night.

 

Plus he had a part time job he worked on the weekends.

 

Yeah, one could do a club or travel team on the weekend, but IMHO that would be pushing it just a bit too much.

I knew a dad that would get done playing on a travel team, and load his kid up and take him to pitch and catch meaningless games several times a week. After a few years he left our program, and from what I hear he may never throw a ball again after 2 arm surgeries his Freshman year.

Actually I don't think this is such a bad idea. Obviously there is risk of overuse, so parents and coaches will need to stay on top of that, and any player who is getting innings on his HS team  shouldn't need or want to play for a club or travel team as well.  But what about the kid who loves baseball when he gets to HS but spends his Freshman year riding the JV pine?  A good percentage of the time that experience is going to kill his passion for the game and he won't even show up for Sophomore year.  Maybe if he can keep playing for his old AA travel team on weekends he'll keep having fun and want to keep playing.  If so that would be a good outcome to this proposed rule change.

Looking at it from a different reason.  What would be the point of having a travel season the same time as college ball is being played.  Isnt that why baseball players get on good summer teams?  Same with basketball playing AAU in the summer?  Same with football having all kinds of 7 on 7 stuff in the summer. 

 

Play during the summer so coaches that cant see you during their college season can come out and watch you when they arent playing.

 

IMO you get better by practicing not playing more games. If kid is riding pine as Freshman he should use HS practices to get better, then move on to good Summer team w coaches  that dev players. If he loves baseball and needs more help improving then go find Fall leagues which r usu more instructional.

Things are always changing.  And your answer may depend on your situation, school or org/travel team.

 

Does HS or Organizations develop players better? 

 

Consider the academies in the Dominican, Venezuela, (and now the Korean Red Sox affiliation).  Or think about the basketball/football private academies in the US that have sprung up in the last decade?  Just looking for opinions.

I was thinking of the vast majority of players who will never play competitive ball past high school.  The rules, schools, and leagues need to serve them, not just the few kids who might play pro or college.   Anything that keeps more kids playing deeper into their HS years is a good thing, IMHO.  Once teens stop playing sports they find other outlets for their energies. And I'm not talking about chores and homework.

Did some research.  Virginia is one state that does allow participation in an independent team.  From the VHSL handbook:

which is independent of the school's control during the sports season for the relevant sport

 

So, yes, in Virginia you can play on an independent travel/club team, but its activities cannot interfere with or conflict with the school team.

Yes, JCG, but wouldn't those kids be more inclined to play rec ball (i.e.- Babe Ruth, Legion) than travel/club ball?  I don't think there would be much rec baseball during HS baseball season. 

 

Cabbagedad, exactly -- if you can find those programs. Where we live there used to be a vibrant LL Seniors league -- 8-10 teams that played after the HS season.  Lately that number went down to zero. This  year it'll be one.   But travel orgs do have 14U and sometimes 16U tournaments during the HS season, and I can see my hypothetical JV benchwarmer getting some playing time on the weekend that way if it was allowed. I would think HS coaches would support it.  A JV team playing 2 games a week can only get so many innings for so many guys, so if a school doesn't have a Frosh team, this would be a way to develop some arms for next year or an emergency this year.

 

May have problems IMO w pitching. If HS throws kid on a Wed/Thurs and wants him again for following Mon game they would not want him to pitch for another team on weekend. As a HS coach I would want player to be ready when I need him esp during tourn time and couldn't care less about his travel team. You would have stupid parents that would allow son to over pitch esp if they think he is being watched. 

Loyalty issues can come into play. Which team comes first-HS or possibly a more competitive one that plays more in front of college coaches. 

Without having read the thread at all, I must say this strikes me as a colossally dumb idea. I cannot imagine any benefit at all and a lot of harm.

Well I for one am glad my state doesn't allow it. If my son got to choose between his middle school team and his travel team there is no way he would play for his school. His travel coaches are all ex pros and his middle school coach is an english teacher who first touched a baseball when he first picked up his equipment from the school. I want him playing for the school. There's more to it than just the coach in my opinion. It would defiantly be a long conversation if there was another option.

There's no way in the world I would support this - heck no.  It's the spring and that means it's time for HS baseball.  Not HS baseball and whatever else you can get on.  That is 3 maybe four months out of the year - that's it.  I'm not asking for more.  You won't find me demanding my guys play on my summer team.  I'll offer one because some will play on it but I want you to play on the best team you can get playing time in the summer and fall.  The summer and fall gives you about 5 to 6 months to do whatever other team you want.  

 

Does overuse or just being plain tired not figure into the equation?  Yeah I know anybody can get hurt crossing the road but think of it like this.  I cross the road once a day the chances of getting hurt are very minimal. But each time I cross that road the chance of getting hurt go up with each time I cross that road.  So the more you do the more likely you are to get hurt.

 

When do they get a chance to be a kid or do homework?  Like someone said above there isn't enough time in the day or week to do all this baseball, get good grades and hang with his friends.  

I just don't get the whole concept of playing travel / showcase / whatever during the spring.  Just don't get it.

I would never let Bum, Jr. do this.

 

Do I think it should be allowed?  Yes, why not?  I'm not for any laws, rules, regulations, or executive orders for that matter that interfere with the parent-child relationship.

 

I think everyone has the right to be dumb.

I'm with you, Bum.  I don't like the idea of both but trying to regulate/legislate usually complicates the matter further.  Live your life, make your decisions, and deal with the consequences.

 

BaseballByTheYard.com

Before we go and criticize the ruling, I think we need to ask why it was even put on the table?  I have an idea about that.  From what I understand kids in CA are opting NOT to play HS ball.  Instead they are engaging in showcase and developmental organizations.  So this is an attempt to get those kids back on the HS field.  It all makes sense.  I'm sitting here in NC and wishing we could do the same.  We're not allowed to choose which HS coach we'd like to play under.  And, even if we could, the HS coaches, for the most part, have nothing to add to the level of play and skill these kids are experiencing in showcase ball.  There are no requirements to become the baseball coach.  Maybe the guy played ball in HS?  Maybe he has time to fill in his schedule.  With all of the outside training athletes are able to acquire right now, the kids are schooling the HS coaches.  Kids aren't getting better on the HS baseball fields here.  Instead,  parents are supplying highly skilled players that the coach gets to move around like chess pieces. Would we opt to play only in a developmental  organization with good coaching, instead of spending time otherwise.  Yes.

 

Want these kids to play more HS ball?  Hire real coaches.

** note: Im not saying all HS coaches in NC are this way....but .....

This would absolutely destroy IL high school baseball if it came to be available.  This is a terrible idea.

Thanks Rockjam, my point is things are always changing.  Not that the change is either good or bad.  Basketball/Football have high school academies specific to a sport and "elite athletic training"  Read this text grab from a basketball academy in Florida...."Impact Basketball Academy:
Impact Basketball Academy is located in Sarasota, FL (South of the Tampa Bay Area and north of Fort Myers), and provides a unique opportunity for the student athlete to be immersed into an environment of elite athletic training accompanied by world class academics. We offer a 9 month program for high school students and a 7 month program for postgrad students (Optional 9 months). Our programs enable students to have a great school experience continuing to train like a professional, while making sure the grades are on track for you to enter USA colleges. We offer excellent accommodation, private education and preparation for further education."

How long before a baseball org combines on-line home high school with elite baseball training as a business model?  Wouldn't be too hard.  How much is a private high school now?  $15k a year? 

 

My point is that things are always changing.

 

 

Why?  Can't the high schools compete with the club/travel ball experience?  Like rockjam said, many HS coaches aren't really qualified (they are teachers first).  But the players can't choose their coach in HS, so they may be stuck with a "clueless wonder."  Many high schools in my area allow their athletic programs to wander season after season of loosing, loosing, loosing.  We have had teams not win a game in several seasons.  How "fun" is that. 

 

The reality is that in this era of tight budgets, it is only a matter of time that HS athletics are cut.  It probably starts with baseball, badminton, tennis, etc. 

not available in ohio but i can see the application for what someone stated above. the kid who rides the bench. in Ohio, that rule is for all sports. Last year a neighboring town had to forfiet all its basketball games. A senoir who averaged less than 2 minutes a game was playiing in a local rec league on summer. He wasn't trying to do anything more than play basketball and have fun. As I understand it, he didn't know he was breaking a rule. Someone saw him and turned him him. He was removed from HS team for last 2 games. To me, dumb! A senior having fun who barely played on his HS team. Both he and HS were punished.

 

if it were allowed then that player would be enjoying his basketball experience and ok with being a 4 year player on HS who knew he had no real chance of playing but wanted to be part of team with his friends.

 

I can see the same for baseball, though I can see the problem as well with those who pitch being overused. I can,also, see the worry of a player choosing his travel team. My 2014 HS coach is a joke, just a fact. He is on a very good travel team. For him, he would choose his HS team despite coach because of his friends etc, but I can see how others wouldn't.

As a HS coach, I am admittedly biased. 

 

Despite shortcomings, I think HS sports are truly special.  School spirit, comraderie, structure, historic rivalry, community and on and on.  In Calif., the rule says you can't compete on an outside team (same sport) during the competitive HS season (first game to last).  It doesn't say you can't train at another facility or take lessons, etc.  The season is only 2 1/2 months.  The travel/club schedules are very minimal during this time.  It works pretty well.  There is plenty of time during summer, fall and even winter to play travel/club/scout ball. 

 

I think if this rule were passed it would dilute HS baseball as well as present significant injury/overuse concerns.  This is already playing out where there are HS summer or fall baseball programs and overlap has to be juggled by coaches, player and parents.  But during summer/fall, most HS programs don't have daily practices and many coaches are far more understanding and willing to accept partial commitment.  During HS season, there is daily practice and full commitment should be expected (within reason).

 

Remember, this is not an "either/ or" ruling.  Those who have bad or no HS programs, didn't make the team, etc., can currently choose to play club instead of HS and some do (although a very small minority).  I get Rockjam's argument but that doesn't really hold true here.  The vast majority of HS V coaches are ex-college or above players.  Yes, many kids use developmental organizations to improve their chances of getting on the HS teams and there is nothing in the rules stopping them from training with those outfits during season - they just can't play games.  Yes, as you go down to JV and frosh levels, some of the coaching quality erodes but I see that in club ball as well.  But if the door keeps opening more and more toward club, the HS product will get diluted and then there won't be a desirable HS program for the kids to aspire to.

 

Our small town used to be a Little League town.  Several years ago, some overzealous parents got caught up in the "we need more for our future super-star kids" thing and brought in Ripken.  There are merits to both but the one thing our community was not big enough to handle was to be divided.  Just not enough kids or teams.  Sure enough, fighting back and forth, no unanimous direction and the town and league became divided and both leagues were terribly diluted.  Many years later, our youth baseball program is just now recovering from that debacle. 

 

And here is another thought regarding the injury/overuse topic... Can you imagine a HS football player during season also choosing to play in a competitive Sunday tackle football league?  Saturday eve practices and Sunday games.  That's on top of his HS daily practices and Friday night games.  What are the chances this player survives the season without significant injury?  While I don't pretend that football and baseball have the same physical demands, there are similar concerns when it comes to throwing arms.

 

HS baseball does not need to be further diluted and our kids don't need to be put in a particularly dangerous injury/overuse situation.  Bad idea.

A big part of this is managing arm care.  That JV kid can get practice reps in every day during HS with the players in front of him and then can get more game experience with the organization/league of his choice or HS summer/fall the other nine months of the year.  It can be to his detriment in many ways to play club tournament (multiple games) over the weekend and then come to HS practice on Monday with his arm dragging.

Agree that things are always changing and that specific "academy" models will come to baseball.  In fact, that's what many private schools are now, essentially.  But that is one or the other, not both at the same time.

 

My son played on a middle school team and travel at the same time in 8th grade. It occurred because I merged my travel team with another team where the kids didn't have middle school teams. They wanted to start playing travel tournaments in April. It worked out OK. Middle school had time deadlines on practice and games. The middle school didn't practice on weekends. I didn't let my son and the other kid from his school pitch travel until their school season was over.

 

I can't imagine this would have worked for high school. High school practiced or played make up games on Saturday. Weekday practice and games were not subject to time limits. The academic workload was much heavier in high school. And my son had a part time job.

 

Given a choice between high school ball and travel in the spring the high school program would have to be a disaster for me to suggest my son play travel instead. There's something special about school ball. College coaches aren't watching high school games in the spring.

 

With school budgets the way they are in some places travel may replace school sports across the board eventually. The first changeover will be football when schools can't afford the liability increases to cover concussions. In Massachusetts many families pay a substantial fee for their kids to play high school sports. The fee for football and hockey due to equipment would be more than substantial. My concern is kids who are better served playing sports are now hanging out due to the cost. Not every kid comes from an All American family in rose covered suburbs.

It's funny there are a lot of people who harp that high school coaches "should butt out outside of the high school season," but now they want club ball to be just fine during the high school season! 

 

Terrible idea.

Here in OH, we have such horrible weather in April and May that there's no way a HS can schedule and play 24-27 regular season games without scheduling 3-4 games per week.  With rainouts, the last 2 weeks of the year are brutal with trying to those games made up.  I'm not sure how a kid could play HS and travel, as we have HS DH's on 3 of the 6 available Saturdays as it is.  Travel games wouldn't be feasible on weekdays unless the field had lights as it's dark by 6:30/7:00pm here early in the spring....and HS's are playing on Saturday.  Heck, in our area, schools don't have freshmen teams....and sometimes only have 9 or 10 kids available for JV if the Varsity is playing the same day.  Just not enough kids to go around to have HS and travel competing in the same season.

Il. IESA (middle/junior high) will start allowing this starting this fall when school starts back up.Trial ballon for expanding into highschool?That could very well be the case.I wondered why Jr. High did this.After reading this thread I have a pretty good idea.In 2015 when Chi towns pension payment almost double. IL. will be in a world of hurt.There will be a lot of schools that will either cut all programs or keep football and one girls sport to break even where football makes money.I too am glad my 2016 does not have to PICK between V coach and travel ball coach.The V coach has very little to offer.We are around travel players/families from the north part of the state.I know next to no one that feels high school baseball will either be around or relevant enough to bother playing in 10 years.I first over heard this summer before last.I was completely blowed over.After listening to others there are some good points.There are two teams my 2016 age now that none of the kids even play high school baseball.They start traveling @ mid april and call it a year @ end of july.That's 28-30+ kids GOOD kids depleted from the very good area talent now.

first I think HS is important I support it fully - 2nd I think HS sports in general are going by the wayside. the resourses are not there, the coaching is not there and the competition is not as high. As schools cut budgets, drop Jr High and freshman programs it is ultimately going to cut the relevance of the HS varsity programs.

 

The travel programs on the other hand continue to raise the bar...and grab a larger share of the best of the best players. Here in SE PA the best players are more likley to be playing club ball in the summer then locally.

 

But that's summer ball.  This thread is about students playing for a club/travel team at the same time the same HS sport is in season.

 

For reference - In VA the baseball season (20 games regular season) usually runs from March to May with the playoffs extending into mid June at the latest.  Teams that make it to the state finals often have "graduation" ceremonies at the field for the seniors.

 

I believe it's been mentioned but HS ball is special.  My son has graduated (2012) and I can tell you I hardly remember any of the travel ball tournaments my son played in , but his HS team's run deep into the playoffs (state) his senior year is one I DO remember. 

 

I see nothing wrong with playing travel/showcase during the summer to get exposure to colleges, etc.  But let's keep in mind, not every player on a HS team is going to play college level ball.  Even this website says it usually is only 1 in 10.    My son's team was fortunate in that regard - of the 6 seniors three are playing college level ball and one went pro (drafted 6th round).

 

Somewhere in all of this, representing your school/community is getting lost in all of this.  Whatever happened to school pride and wanting to play for your school?  I guess it's just the latest version of "me generation" - that it's all about me and not the team or organization. 

 

Maybe it's just me, but striving for the championship ring that says you are a state champion must not mean anything anymore. Believe it or not that was a big motivator for my son.  He really wanted an opportunity to earn that ring.  Travel tournament trophies didn't mean much to him.

Like it has damaged American Legion baseball?  

This just seems to be the "me generation" creeping even more. Sad thing is I'm not sure if it's the kids or the parents!

Don't you think its a 2 way street.Without the right kind of leadership.What do we as parents expect?There are a couple other threads going right now where you can to a degree see what type of person the V head coach is.Does'nt that really have more to do with things than anything?These kids will give you back the exact thing you give them.If a head coach has little to no contact till first day allowed then is positive as much as negative to his players just what would one expect?

Proud are things really that bad at Coal City?

 Kids that go to quality high school programs are lucky, if they have a coach that can offer some direction and maybe help a kid with a few recruiting emails this is even better. But for most kids you only get this with your TB team, In our program this is a big part of the coaches responsibility. High school coaches want to win now with the kids they are stuck with, in TB and showcase teams parents want their kids to develop and for recruiter's to call about their players. My son once quit travel basketball because it interfered with his baseball schedule, so I know he would choose TB over high school, there would be no need to waste time on a low level high school team.

There's no reason to choose. No one who matters will be in attendance for a travel season that runs concurrently with the college season.

So what does a kid do when they end up with a college baseball coach they don't like or doesn't believe teaches them enough?  

I told my son that you have to learn to deal with bad coaching (or bad coaches) just like you will learn to deal with bad supervisors.  

The MLB and the corporate world have them.