*

2022 son here.  Pitched (10-0) and played CF as a freshman until playoffs.......then pitched and played 2nd and SS (when SS closed).  As a soph he had pitched 3 times and played 3rd and SS when he closed.  During summer ball he plays CF only and "might" get to pitch to cover some innings.  He's an OF, is ranked highly as an OF by PG and PBR, but you do what coach asks.  I think that it shows his versatility and athleticism and willingness to help the team.  

I ask the hitting and OF coach of the HS to have him take OF 3 times a week (but don't throw).  That way he's still actively tracking balls and is ready for summer.

You could ask the coach to have him catch bull pens and do catchers drills (blocking / framing / etc.) a couple of times a week

@russinfortworth posted:

2022 son here.  Pitched (10-0) and played CF as a freshman until playoffs.......then pitched and played 2nd and SS (when SS closed).  As a soph he had pitched 3 times and played 3rd and SS when he closed.  During summer ball he plays CF only and "might" get to pitch to cover some innings.  He's an OF, is ranked highly as an OF by PG and PBR, but you do what coach asks.  I think that it shows his versatility and athleticism and willingness to help the team.  

I ask the hitting and OF coach of the HS to have him take OF 3 times a week (but don't throw).  That way he's still actively tracking balls and is ready for summer.

You could ask the coach to have him catch bull pens and do catchers drills (blocking / framing / etc.) a couple of times a week

 

 

Thanks Russ. Should he work a lot on fielding during summer and fall or focus more on catching? He loves C and I’d hate to take time away from that when we don’t have to. In travel he is usually playing 2b or 3b when the coach is giving him a break behind the plate. 

TerribleBPT:

I can definitely relate. Son played a great deal of 3B during his sophomore and junior years of high school and I think when senior year began as well.  My confusion was that he had better range and a better glove than the other MI. I also saw the two positions having a great difference in # of "chances" - many more at SS or 2B, much less at 3B. Son knew he could get to many balls in front of SS and it was a shorter throw. HS coach said "get what you can". Coach also told son that he can still "do his thing"(i.e. be leader/captain of the infield from 3B) Son has top rated speed on scale. I used to joke that RipkenFanson just wanted the title of fastest 3B in the state. 

So what did he do? Showcased as a middle infielder and enjoyed playing MI in the summer.  Actually his legion team had injuries and weaknesses in the OF, so that he played CF primarily for one season, I think his summer junior year. He didn't mind so much as his Legion Manager was very instrumental in his college search. RipkenFanson also knew that he was penciled in as leadoff and pretty much had green light on bases. Like your son he was all in for the team.

During the showcases and camps leading up to his college commitment he would bring both his MI and CF mitts and if possible participate in both drills. College recruiters often asked him which position he preferred (SS or CF) and he would answer that he could play either, but thought he had more of a mind of a middle infielder. It all worked out for him and hopefully will for your son as well.

Incidentally, my son's official slot where he signed was "utility".  RC told son they were looking for an athletic middle infielder who could play the outfield. He was relieved when one of the best players on his college team was starting 3B, so he would never play there.

Versatility is good. Regardless of where your son plays in HS (3B/C/P), he should keep hitting. You'll also soon get a sense from the colleges which positions best suit your son.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

My son is a 2023 C/P. He only pitched in one varsity game this year in relief and was the main varsity catcher. Another parent today whose son will be committing to an ACC school soon was talking to the coach about his son’s recruitment and he said the coach wants to move my son to 3b or SS next year so he can use him more on the mound. My son has zero chance of being recruited as a 3b and probably just as likely as a SS. The coach can do what he wants and my son will do what it takes to help the team. In this scenario, how would you go about continuing to work on the position you are best at while still making sure you are ready to help your team?

Ok I’ll reply as a long time HS coach. My first comment is that in my mind being a P/C is kinda silly. You really are one or the other but not both. The wear and tear of both make them basically mutually exclusive. The workload to play at a high level for both also makes them mutually exclusive.To me if he is being recruited as, and mostly is, a P out of those two then he is a P. That’s an outsiders opinion without seeing him so I’m just talking from experience. Not knowing velo , mechanics, size it’s hard to know for sure.

The good news is the HS coach recognizes his value, he wants him in the line up. To me at times it really doesn’t matter in some ways because many HS players are “out of position” in Hs when looking at the next level. I also think parents get defensive when they see their kid as a 2 way player when the reality is very few do that at a D1 level and when they do usually the kid is the Friday starter and a part time DH. It’s kinda like everybody is a “ss” and as an infield guy I look and I’m like yea that’s just an athletic kid playing ss and then The parent gets pisses because it’s like you called their baby ugly when all you really did was give them solid , educated feedback.

clearly your son is athletic if he can play multiple positions, there is value to that even know it’s “off brand” for him. In HS the nature of rosters and limitations on who you have as players sort of make decisions for the coach, even though it may not be best for the kid. For example I was coaching and the head coaches son was being recruited by D1 teams. We played him at SS knowing full well he was a corner guy at the next level but for us that was the need. Flash forward 4 years later and he’s been at starting A-10 1b for all four years so in some ways it didn’t matter when we played him in HS the way it ended up. We also had a catcher who as a Frosh we played him at ss, went to college as a D3 C, and now is in the Rangers system as a closer throwing 96. So how smart were we??? Obviously there were reasons but it’s the way it worked out.

I guess if he is a P then focus on that and the rest is just gravy. If not then stop P and focus on where he will stay long term but in some ways his recruiting will figure it out for you. Hope this helps and is just one opinion.

We felt that my son's HS played him out of position, but in the end it didn't matter...every bit of recruiting happened through travel ball.  Son was contacted by about a dozen schools, offered by several and not one talked to the HS coach.   

@Fmr coach now Dad thank you for the feedback. He’s not really a pitcher, but can pitch pretty well. The only game he pitched this spring was one he was sitting and the coach knew he was going to need a couple innings from him. Last summer and fall he’d usually catch Friday and Saturday and pitch Monday. Or he’d have a random closer opportunity. 

My son has no problem with what the coach is going to do, but he/we are more wondering what he should work on in the summer and fall. He wants to keep working at C and that’s really his best position. We’re definitely not complaining or even disappointed. We’re grateful he’s on the team and the coach thinks highly of him. 

I think almost every player on my son’s 17u team exclusive of catchers was a P/SS or a P/CF in high school. In high school ball potential college prospects or D1 prospects on more talented teams are typically the handful of dominant players on the team.

In travel it all gets sorted out by whether the kid wants to pitch in college and positions get sorted out by talent among the most talented. A kid’s arm may be adequate for shortstop in high school ball and not strong enough for throws in the hole in travel and as a college prospect.

The primary discussion colleges coaches had with my son’s high school coach was about character and academic discipline. High school coaches have more insight than travel coaches in these areas. 

A player only gets so much work in practice. If he wants to excel at a position it will be about all the work he puts in on his own time. In high school I spent hours with my son hitting balls up the gap and over his head until he was ready to drop from exhaustion. It was the kind of work he would never get in a practice or a game. 

Sage advice from RJM!.... TerribleBP if that’s the case then I’d probably drop pitching seriously and focus on being a C if that’s his best position and he’s being recruited as one. The only thing is I’d have your son Be up front with the HS coach and have a discussion on on the situation. There’s nothing wrong with him saying coach I’m going to focus on Catching so I can be the best version of one that I can (taking a page from RJM). The reality is to truly excel and be next level type stuff as a C it takes a lot of work, and yes the details matter when the truly knowledgeable begin to look in ernest. really any position does for most of us except for the elite of elite of athletes.

Thanks guys. For the last year+ he’s only worked on speed/agility, catching, throwing, hitting, and strength workouts in his own time. Can’t remember the last time he’s thrown a pen and only taken a couple ground balls before games this spring. Like I mentioned, he’ll play wherever he’s needed for the HS season, but he doesn’t want to sacrifice time he could be working on catching for IF practice. Just want to make sure I’m giving him the right guidance. Most of you here have been through it before and I haven’t. 

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Thanks guys. For the last year+ he’s only worked on speed/agility, catching, throwing, hitting, and strength workouts in his own time. Can’t remember the last time he’s thrown a pen and only taken a couple ground balls before games this spring. Like I mentioned, he’ll play wherever he’s needed for the HS season, but he doesn’t want to sacrifice time he could be working on catching for IF practice. Just want to make sure I’m giving him the right guidance. Most of you here have been through it before and I haven’t. 

 My son pitched in high school. He threw hard. He wanted to be a position player in college. While he put in all the extra work I previously mentioned as an outfielder he did put in the necessary work as a pitcher. Whatever position a player is placed he wants to succeed. Playing out of position and not putting in the work isn’t an excuse for failure. 

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

My son is a 2023 C/P. He only pitched in one varsity game this year in relief and was the main varsity catcher. Another parent today whose son will be committing to an ACC school soon was talking to the coach about his son’s recruitment and he said the coach wants to move my son to 3b or SS next year so he can use him more on the mound. My son has zero chance of being recruited as a 3b and probably just as likely as a SS. The coach can do what he wants and my son will do what it takes to help the team. In this scenario, how would you go about continuing to work on the position you are best at while still making sure you are ready to help your team?

Your "best" position is not necessarily the one that gets you to the next level.  Coming up through Little League, travel, Legion and JV, Foxson was the considered to be the best catcher in the county.   He made varsity his sophomore year and was the primary catcher that season.   His junior year the coach asked him to move to 3B as another good catcher was coming up (a good friend of his) and he needed his glove in the infield.  Then his senior year he moved to 1B.  One thing his Legion coach had noticed - when he wasn't catching, he hit better.

Long story short, his bat (over .400 in HS) and stellar play at 1B got him to the college level.  He was recruited to a D2 JuCo as a 1B/OF/DH. 

Sometimes you have no choice.  I think asking to catch a few bullpens will keep him ready for summer.  Hitting is what matters.  In terms of recruiting, very little is based off of hs games.

@baseballhs posted:

Sometimes you have no choice.  I think asking to catch a few bullpens will keep him ready for summer.  Hitting is what matters.  In terms of recruiting, very little is based off of hs games.

Thanks BBHS. We are still a long way away from the spring. He plans to ask the coach if he can catch a game here and there and catch pens like you mentioned. I've heard pretty much unanimously the same point about recruiting and HS games. I guess that's why I was asking about what he should focus on right now. My son is by no means a stellar MIF, the HS team just doesn't have anyone that is a true MIF. He has very good fielding fundamentals and isn't afraid of a hard hit short hop. But he is not the kid to make a sick diving play and bounce up to throw out a runner. 

A handful of people have said to keep catching for the summer and fall and mix in the spot pitching appearances and IF opportunities. Then when fall ends start working on ground balls and DP feeds. 

In any level (rec ball through MLB) the manager/coach will put you where the team needs you.  It is best to have as much experience as possible at several positions, you never know where you will end up.  It may appear to be a hindrance at first, but in the end if he can hit that is the main thing.  In HS son played OF before finding a home as a MI, college played every game as OF/DH, MLB back to MI (but still takes balls in OF).  We've all seen MLB pitchers being used as a PH, pitchers playing OF, position players pitching, etc.  Just makes your son more marketable and provide another opportunity to get more playing time.

During summer, if you have a choice, play the position he is best at, but keep it fun.  I feel like a lot of my son's hs baseball (fun) was taken from him.  They decided sophomore year that he was a PO.  He had a top 2 batting average freshman year, but his position on varsity was occupied by a first rounder who was a year older.  He could have stayed on JV and hit every game, but they pulled him up.  This year, his year to be the number one, we got very little season.  We tried to make sure he got to hit some in the summer to keep it fun.  Most times, you just don't have a choice, the coach makes it. Ultimately, he is a PO, just wish he could have played the game longer instead of having to focus on the "recruiting game".  A lot of kids played their last baseball game this year and they didn't know it.

So you just proved my point.... so the coach identified he was more of a PO. He gave you feedback, and put you in a position to succeed and stay “on brand”. And you answer is to be the typical parent and complain because of why? Hitting on jv or frosh is no where near varsity in my mind and means nothing. You know how many kids hit .500 in freshman and never played a day of varsity? A LOT! The kid in front of him was first round pick, so the coach did what was best for the team and not the selfish viewpoint of it would be so nice to see Johnny hit one more time!

this is the exact scenario that blows my mind. You get good feedback and guidance but somehow you see your player as less of a player . It’s not socialist baseball as you go up in levels. Everyone doesn’t play all the time. If you ask me the coach did you a huge favor and allowed for you to concentrate on what would get him recruited at the next level. Thank him maybe.

a big reason why I no longer wish to coach any more is this exact scenario.

No, I see it as HS baseball doesn't matter that much.  It's about friends and team. We knew in college he was going to be a PO.  The coach didn't need to tell us that.  Showcases, he was already showcasing as a PO, summer after freshman year. At our school, he could have also been a hitter. You don't have to be elite status to hit in HS.  I don't look through rose colored glasses.  Junior year, coach tried to make him the DH.  You can't not hit for a year and then be the DH.  Short sighted.  Sitting on varsity or playing on JV.  I'd take playing  JV.  He rotted for a year, when he could have played.  It's a waste. The summer recruiting part of baseball is already a job, and it's starting earlier and earlier.  I see you used to be a coach, doesn't mean all coaches make great decisions.  My point was really, enjoy it.  

My 2015 had always been a primary C in travel and during freshman and sophomore of HS.  His HS Junior year, due to many team injuries, they used him in the OF and 3B because that is where they had holes to fill.  His senior year he played some C but most games at 2B.     As a 6'3 220lb left hitting player ( yes he played 2B! lol) he wasn't concerned about a position rather he knew it was the hitting that was going to get him an opportunity to play in college.  Once the HC/RC knew he could play other positions it provided opportunity that he may not would have otherwise.  After one official visit to a D1 school, the HC/RC admitted to my 2015 he was No 2 on the recruiting board for C.  They had an offer out to No 1 and was waiting for his response before they offered my 2015.  2 days later the HC contacted my 2015 and said they were extending an offer anyway because they saw him competing as C, 3B and DH.  If he was a primary C only would he have gotten that offer?  Probably not.

Terrible... several thoughts...

First, I would advise to be careful about information you heard third hand.  Make sure your son hears it directly from the coach so you and he know exactly what the scenario and expectations are.

A question... you say he is far more likely to be recruited as a C and has zero chance as a SS or 3B, yet it sounds like infield is where both the HS coach is considering playing him (along with P) and where the travel coach plays him.  Combine that with the fact that he is only a 2023 (has plenty of time to continue developing) and I'm left wondering why you feel so strongly that he could only get recruited as a C.  It's fine to work extra hard at preferred and/or likely position of strength but I wouldn't limit efforts there when current coaches are seeing him elsewhere.

I agree with Trust...  the coach will put you where the team needs you.  And, gaining experience at multiple positions is very valuable.  Your son should embrace it.  As he climbs, there are inevitably scenarios where there are logjams and opportunities at certain positions and the ability to slide from one to another is often the difference between starting/getting PT and not.  And that goes for very good players too. 

I would caution you not to take the advice in an earlier post of having your son talk to the HS coach and tell him he wants to focus on catching.  In effect, you are basically telling the coach where to play you.  That is a big no-no.  I think you have a much better mental approach to that situation with your comment that he will play wherever he is needed.  Nothing wrong with him expressing his interest in being involved in all catching drills/practice where time and coach plan allows.

To answer your original question, catching is a unique position in that many HS and travel programs have a hard time slotting sufficient time to train a catcher or give adequate practice reps and drills aside from having him catch pens.  So, this position maybe more than any other, often requires heavy time and effort away from team practices.  This can come in the form of private instruction, drills run with a partner or self, asking coach for reps before or after practice at the field, etc.  Work on the other positions as well as you anticipate the need.

There are countless threads here that you can search that discuss the challenges of balancing catching and pitching.  I suggest you dive into those threads to educate yourself so that you can address the issue should it become a risk to the health of your son.  If you and he see him as a catcher but the HS coach sees that he is needed as a pitcher, this is likely to rear it's head at some point.

Side note - one son played C, 1B, OF and P in HS over his four years of varsity play.  This served him well with his overall understanding of the game for his future college playing and coaching career.

I agree with Cabbage that your son should look at this as a blessing.  Not many get an opportunity to play multiple positions and win the Coaches trust.   The one thing that I think is getting overlooked is why is your son in the lineup to begin with regardless of position?   Could it be his bat, leadership?   For some reason when the coach fills out that lineup card your son is in the lineup playing somewhere.   That is a good thing.   The best way to stay there is to keep hitting.   The best way to keep your name in the lineup is to hit and produce.

You want to grab a college coaches attention?   Hit the ball.   Demonstrate quick hands, a good eye and solid contact.   They'll find a place to put you in the field and lineup card.

Good luck!

A few questions for your son.

1. Why does he desire to be a catcher?

2. Can he read the bat?

3. Can he read the base runner?

4. What is his strengths - arm, quick feet, two handed catching, calling the pitches?

5. Where does hit in the line-up?

6. What is his age, physical size, perception?

*Pitching and catching is a different arm angle and can lead to a arm problem.

The questions are from my conversations with one of the best pro catching instructors and current a MLB Coach.

Bob

PS; when we traveled International I always selected 3 catchers and rotated between catching, DH, 3b and LF.

@Consultant posted:

A few questions for your son.

1. Why does he desire to be a catcher?

2. Can he read the bat?

3. Can he read the base runner?

4. What is his strengths - arm, quick feet, two handed catching, calling the pitches?

5. Where does hit in the line-up?

6. What is his age, physical size, perception?

*Pitching and catching is a different arm angle and can lead to a arm problem.

The questions are from my conversations with one of the best pro catching instructors and current a MLB Coach.

Bob

PS; when we traveled International I always selected 3 catchers and rotated between catching, DH, 3b and LF.

A lot of great questions there.

1. He says he likes to be in more control of the game, feels like he can make the biggest impact there, and likes the pitcher/catcher partnership. 

2. Seems to be getting better

3. Most of the time. Although, in HS so far it seems the runners have a huge advantage. 

4. Receiving, blocking, calling pitches. Arm is catching up with everything else

5. Anywhere from 1 - 9 depending on the team and situation. Usually starts seasons towards the bottom and ends up 1-3 by the end of the season. Hasn't shown any real power until the past month. Lots of base hits with occasional doubles down the line. He also gets drilled a ton and walks a good amount. 

6. Turned 15 last week. 5'11" and still going, 130. Packing on muscle has been his number 1 goal since the start of the shut down. Looks like he's easily 135 now, but I haven't checked his weight.

He's worked very hard since the end of the fall season to shorten his arm path. Not really sure what will happen there if he starts throwing bullpens.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

...

He's worked very hard since the end of the fall season to shorten his arm path. Not really sure what will happen there if he starts throwing bullpens.

You're on it... that is definitely one of the concerns of conflict.  A P has no time constraints - can and usually will utilize lengthening and extension of all leverage points, core rotation, etc., to maximize velo and spin and shorten the distance between release and the plate, while a C must find the optimal efficiencies to produce a quick transfer and strong accurate throw in the shortest time possible.

As others have said, mind the arm slot. 

Nothing worse than your P coach saying “you pitch like a catcher” and your C coach saying “you throw like a pitcher”. 

My only other advice would be to spend at least 50% of his budget on hitting. 

@Senna posted:

As others have said, mind the arm slot. 

Nothing worse than your P coach saying “you pitch like a catcher” and your C coach saying “you throw like a pitcher”. 

My only other advice would be to spend at least 50% of his budget on hitting. 

Thanks. He has a plan that includes significant time spent on hitting. Once school gets out he'll be able to work with his new hitting coach a few times a week instead of just once. As weird as it is to say this, the shutdown probably benefited my son as he as able to spend more time training.

Just for fun, I asked my son to throw me a few curve balls last night when he finished his throwing program. The ball had the right spin but had zero break. After 10 or so attempts I could see he was frustrated and ended it to go inside for dinner. I'm all ears if anyone has a simple recommendation on some verbal cues that may help with that. 

wondering how hard he throws and how much more you think he will grow.  we have a friend with a 2020 kid who was a pretty good catcher, coming up.  in 9th grade, his coaches looked at him (6'1" at the time) and how he threw (really hard) and said that he was done catching.  he fought it, for a while, but eventually accepted it.  now he's 6'5", throws low 9s and would look extremely goofy trying to get into a squat.  

sometimes your body picks your position, not your head or heart.