Playing Underclassmen

We have had a problem with a few frosh that have started on varsity. They have not gotten any better. Most of it is definately because they have become headcases. Their classmates are now passing them in talent and they can't figure out why. It's because they haven't had to work at getting better for 2 years. Meanwhile...

I would prefer to see them down and working. But, you have to have confidence in your staff to develop them.

You also hit on a good point about them playing together with their classmates. When frosh are brought up to a weak program I believe they are learning to lose. The upperclassmen teach them this. Mostly in subtle ways...work ethic, pre-game/post-game attitude/behavior, during game behavior. If they are kept at a level where they can compete and can win, they will strive for that.

Just speculation but I'd guess what you really have is loads of potential in the 9th and 10th grade and only a few kids that actually have more talent than the 11th or 12th graders.

You've just taken over the program and there is a natural tendency to try and make the program yours by clearing out the old coach's kids, (11th and 12th graders) and bringing in your kids (9th and 10th graders).

If you do this on a wholesale basis and cut a large percentage of the upperclassmen you'll create dissension and probably won't have a very successful season even if you do gain some long term advantage from exposing more of your 9th and 10th graders to a higher level of competition.

Everything I've written is pure speculation so the only thing I'd recommend is that you check yourself for biases (we all have them) before making any decisions and try to get unbiased opinions from your coaches (sometimes easier said than done).

There's a new high school in our area that is taking the philosophy that he's going young. He'll probably be starting 6 freshmen - the school does not have a senior class and the juniors are really nothing special. I don't think that he's going to cut them, he's only keep the freshman and sop[hs that are capable starters - the other young players are being left down to play JV. So, if they're going to get lots of playing time, you keep the young ones up - iof not keep them down for playing time. It doesn't do them any good sitting. Also, there is another high school that did the same thing a 3 years ago and went to the state final four last year.

My philosophy has always been to give the kids a positive experience and let them be successful but the more people I talk to seem to think that winning at the JV level does not always equate to winning on the varsity level.

I don't have a lot of confidence in my JV staff as they were more or less given to me, so the idea of taking my best low level players and keeping thwm with me is very inticing. Any player brought up will be in the starting lineup. Of the kids I am considering 2 are pitchers and 1 is a catcher.

I would let them know right off the bat what expectations I have of them to compete at the varsity level and let them know that adversity is part of the game that we all must deal with. The best players are the ones that can find the positive through all the negative.

As far as cleaning out the old coaches kids goes, I have only identified 8 or 9 juniors and seniors coming back so without the others, it may be tough for me to field a team.

I'm not a coach, just a mom, but since you have to deal with parents as part of your coaching duties, I thought I would offer one more thought here.

Each of the above posts contain good points to factor in ... maturity level, reaction to adversity, advantage of classmates playing together and "coming up" together, possibility that 9th & 10th graders won't progress as expected, not wanting the underclassmen to "learn to lose", etc. But if you really think through all the issues and decide that it's a toss-up ... if you don't know for sure whether you would field a significantly better team by bringing the underclassmen up ... then also factor in this: The 11th and 12th graders have invested some time in the baseball program, and this may be their last opporunity. Play the best players, but only cut Jrs and Srs from the team if you are pretty sure they have less to offer, overall, than the underclassmen.

(In case you wonder, I'm not saying this from the perspective of a parent who was "burned", as my 04 was a varsity starter as a freshman. But there was a senior who occasionally played in my son's place, and I was really happy for the senior when he got the chance to play ... I knew my son had plenty of time left.)

Viking,

Bottom line, pick the best athletes from the 9th thru 12th pool that are trying out. Cut the rest! Now let me qualify that a bit by defining "best" which includes these characteristics:

1.) a : having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity b : revealing or reflecting good judgment or sound thought
2.) Proven baseball skills or demonstrated ability
3.) Sound attitude and character

This mindset by you indicates that those who earn it and have the highest demonstrated qualities will be on your baseball team. If you waffle now, your dead meat and you play into the hands of the nay-sayers. This also gives you the best chance of doing well as a team now and in the future! As for maturity level, it should be resolved by characteristic #1 above.

A ball player's got to be kept hungry to become a big leaguer. That's why no boy from a rich family ever made the big leagues.
Joe Dimaggio (b. 1914), U.S. baseball player. Quoted in: New York Times (30 April 1961).

If you're in it for the long haul - and I hope you are - consider the impact of what you do this year on your team and your choices 2-3 years from now. Players don't exist in a vacuum. If you cut Juniors and Seniors this year to make way for Freshmen and Sophs, what do you do in a couple of years with the young guys you brought up this year, if they don't develop as you hope? Cut them and bring up more Frosh-Sophs? And if you don't, are you going to have a "log jam" of players who will all leave the program at the same time? There will always be exceptions due to fluctuations in the talent pool, but if you can keep a fairly steady stream of players entering yourn program, progressing up to varsity, and then making way for a similar sized group of varsity players the next year, you can avoid a boom-bust cycle (and also avoid a lot of headaches, for a lot of reasons.) I'd generally suggest keeping your freshmen together for at least their first year, and take sophs up only if you have to to fill specific needs on the varsity team, if you can.

D'oh!

This situation reminds me a lot of when our son was a freshman. Varsity team was lousy, something like 5-20. Varsity coach told me early in tryouts that our son and a few other freshman were better than the juniors/seniors but that he wouldn't bring up a freshman to varsity. No argument from me, but I didn't get it. Now I do.

Freshman of that year played together on JV and had a good year (2nd in league). They played a lot and developed and improved and gained loads of confidence.

Sophomore year, he brought 3 or 4 of them up to varsity including our son. All were starters most of the time and team improved dramatically...something like 14-12 and best year at that high school in a while.

Last year (junior), they whomped on people. 21-7. Most wins ever at the school. First time in section playoffs in 14 years. This year, they should win the league and maybe the section.

The coach 3 years ago did something that cost him that year, but it probably resulted in a better program in the long haul.

There's a wide gap in maturity between a freshman and a senior. Maybe not in raw talent, but in virtually everything else including dealing with adversity. Some of those freshman 3 years ago would have been really discouraged had they been on a bad varsity team. Coach did a smart thing in my opinion.

I would have a slightly different answer if it had been a traditionally successful program with a good support system and a good assurance of a successful varsity team. But in our case (and I think yours) the right thing was done.

We have had that situation since my son was a a 9th grader. Our school is small, so a big cut is not necessary. The coach played the youger guys as he could politically. Many were more talented but I guess everyone had an equal chance. Some of the older boys that shared time saw that the youger kids were overtaking them maybe and decided not to play the next year. I can't say that we always had the best team on the field. Coaching is hard when choices have to me made!

Every situation is different and there is no pat answer. My 2 youngest sons play(ed) at a 1A school in a rural community, the smallest classification in our state. They don't have enough jrs. and srs. to even fill a team, so the Sophs and FR have to not only fill it out, but contribute. And they're still a decent program, considering. The last two years, they've just missed the state playoffs, losing out both times in tie-breakers. There are a couple of brothers that have been starters since the 8th grade. This year they'll start 4 seniors, 2 juniors, 2 sophs, and my youngest will probably start as a freshman.

It sounds like at least you have the luxury of choosing. It's hard not to go with the best players as a coach, but justball's experience tells a lot about how it can work out for the best if you choose to go with the older guys. If a coach explains things to parents in a confidential manner so they'll understand like that case, it could be a big plus for the long range outlook. The parents know that their kids have several years left ahead of them and most will understand your decision.

It's a touchy situation. My daughter's h.s. coach made her the varsity starter as an eighth-grader over 2 juniors and 1 senior. It is a 4A school (our biggest classification). She recieved a lot of animousity early on from them, but by the time the juniors were seniors they were very supportive of her. They took innings wherever they got the opportunity and learned to play other positions. It was hard for her when she was young, trying to understand why the other pitchers didn't like her - when all she was trying to do was help them win. In the long run, it made her mentally tougher and now as a senior she knows what she is capable of. I am a firm believer that the best player should be playing. If there is little difference between an underclassman and a upperclassman, then give the upperclassman the nod.

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Your Fresh/Soph will get their time in eventually. Heck, I remember how excited I was as a HS Sophomore when the coach pulled me up and put me in my first varsity game for 3 innings... I was just happy to be in the game with the big boys.

If the older Jr./Sr. players are obviously less talented than the younger kids, at the start of the season, I'd work a balance out for playing time and see who emerges as the obvious starter for you League games in the 2nd half of the season. Challenge your starters. Too many senior starters think it's their right and will lose their motivation to work hard and improve their game.

Over the season if the older kids are hitting .150 and the younger kids are hitting .450, it will be obvious to everyone who should be starting including the Sr.

Winnig baseball programs have implemented this version of "what have you done for me lately" approach. Every player knows, if you don't perform there's no guarantees.

However, I've seen a Varsity Coach stick with the a non-performing Sr. just because "it's their senior year and they've earned it" and the Varsity team be a big loser. Those High School coaches usually don't last.

The best players play.

Interesting concept which we do not see too much anymore

As a soph I made the varsity HS team behind and an All County Player--JV games were never on the same day as varsity games back then-- I played junior varsity games and came to the varsity as MR All County's Backup--BUT I was the third base coach for the varsity games in which I did not play

Great fun and a great way to be part of a game you are not playing in-- yes I was eligible to pinch hit etc and then go back to the third base coaching box

Got playing time, improved my game and then was able to learn coaching at the same time and at third base yet

Would be nice if the same situation was availabale today--great way to keep a kid interested in the game while he improves his schools

TRhit

Very interesting topic having a son just starting frosh year at H.S. with fairly strong program. Coach indicating he and few other strong frosh will play JV this season then be moved to varsity their soph year (all projected starters). However, I tend to think the coaching is much better at the varsity level and wouldn't mind if given the chance he play varsity as a frosh even if only as a spot starter as he would benefit from the better coaching, practices and competition.

'07 Crafty Lefties Dad...

The best players should play!!
No matter what year in school they are.
High School is for winning and preparing your players to play at the next level.
As the players go up in level of compititon the cream rises. Players of lesser ability are passed by. That's life

I have been in this situation before. I evaluate all the talent. The best players are on Varsity. The best players play. If the juniors and seniors are not as good as the freshman and soph then why is that. Have they been working over the past three years or are they on cruise control? Should a talented Freshman or Sophmore have to play JV just because they are younger? Freshman and Sophs that are very talented will get nothing out of beating up on less talented kids at the JV level. I sent a message a couple of years ago and it was I dont care what grade you are in. If you think that just because you are a Junior or Senior that you are going to step into a posistion then you are wrong. You better work so no one takes your job. It has worked for me. We started five sophs last year and went 20-4 with a conference title. Ill tell you one thing it did, we have alot of Juniors and Seniors working their butts off now. One thing we dont do is bring up younger players to sit the bench. If they are up they are going to play. I dont care how other people do it. Thats there program. But we want to make sure that we dont punish anyone for being good for any reason. Maybe that Freshman or Soph is better because they have been working there butt off so they can come in and make a difference and the upper classman has been sitting on his because he thinks is owed to him. The best play period.