I have made a point of staying away from this thread, but here we go (and I'm sorry it's going to be a long one):
There a so many different experiences in HS ball that it's very hard to generalize motives or outcomes across the board. That is probably the thing that has been most interesting for me when reading posts on this board. American regional differences have been nearly leveled by TV and other homogonizing factors, but what happens with baseball seems to vary across the country and in different states. What is the same is our hopes for our sons (and daughters) and our frustration at times with what seems to be politikin'.
I expect to see our son in the OF as a freshman V player and that's ok with me. They want his bat and his speed, and they have at least one decent C to rely on. I have faith that our boy's skills will eventually speak for themselves if he gets the chance behind the plate--this year or next. And he'll continue to meet with his C instructor and play his butt off this summer at ECB. I am just going to meditate and enjoy the games and try not to worry about the behind-the-scenes BS. Staying positive and excited!
Your son is playing varsity, that is what the focus should be. That's a terrific accomplishment. Enjoy it. Celebrate. There is absolutely no reason to get down because he's playing the outfield. He has a senior catcher ahead of him. As long as he gets playing time that is what is most important. Be patient his time will come to show his skills as a catcher and when he does I'm sure the coach will realize who the best player is. The other guy will not be an issue. Things always have a way of working themselves out. As far as scorekeeping that will change also as your son shows his power to the HS coach.
All smiles! No disappointments or unhappiness about anything or anyone other than feeder coach's behavior. I'm just venting here and nowhere else. And I reserve the right to delete the previous post... sometimes the act of writing a frustration down allows one to let it go.
*most of previous post deleted :-)
*most of previous post deleted :-)
Ya, I wouldn't be that concerned about it.
Your son will be a more well rounded player.
Able to fill many position during his baseball career.
And he can still train for the catching position and play in the summer.
Also less wear and tear on the body at a young age while he's still growing.
EH
Your son will be a more well rounded player.
Able to fill many position during his baseball career.
And he can still train for the catching position and play in the summer.
Also less wear and tear on the body at a young age while he's still growing.
EH
quillgirl - I loved your post and it expresses the types of values that I think are important 
You may be aware of some inequities but you aren't going to use them as an excuse or lend any type of credance to them with your son. On the other hand, you seem genuinely delighted for the opportunities he has without getting all bent out of shape about what position he should be playing or what not.
Here are my thoughts based on my experiences. Those that try to rig the system for their sons will see it eventually go against them. There will come a level of play where the son will have to earn things based on his own merits and the parent can no longer influence things. That kid will find it hard to adapt and most of them fall by the wayside. Your son is already learning how to make his OWN way as it should be. This will serve him well at the next level be it college or pro. Based on your post and what values you have instilled in him, I am confident he will play at the next level.
Finally, with respect to saying things to correct the record, I think remaining silent as you did was the best move. The best language for your son to employ is his on field production and nothing more. That will get him noticed every time.
You may be aware of some inequities but you aren't going to use them as an excuse or lend any type of credance to them with your son. On the other hand, you seem genuinely delighted for the opportunities he has without getting all bent out of shape about what position he should be playing or what not.
Here are my thoughts based on my experiences. Those that try to rig the system for their sons will see it eventually go against them. There will come a level of play where the son will have to earn things based on his own merits and the parent can no longer influence things. That kid will find it hard to adapt and most of them fall by the wayside. Your son is already learning how to make his OWN way as it should be. This will serve him well at the next level be it college or pro. Based on your post and what values you have instilled in him, I am confident he will play at the next level.
Finally, with respect to saying things to correct the record, I think remaining silent as you did was the best move. The best language for your son to employ is his on field production and nothing more. That will get him noticed every time.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Those that try to rig the system for their sons will see it eventually go against them. There will come a level of play where the son will have to earn things based on his own merits and the parent can no longer influence things.
And that is the rock solid truth.
Thanks Texan
I may have been a little cranky yesterday so I apologize to you, shortstopmom, and anyone else that I may have rubbed the wrong way I still enjoyed the debate!
I may have been a little cranky yesterday so I apologize to you, shortstopmom, and anyone else that I may have rubbed the wrong way
I still enjoyed the debate!
Glad we can disagree occasionally (pretty rarely, I think) and remain on cordial terms.
Sometimes I come across more harshly than I intended. Would be easier to communicate in person.
Sometimes I come across more harshly than I intended. Would be easier to communicate in person.
I really think everybody has cabin fever.
And want some sunshine on are face and to listen to the crack of the bat.
I think it's also a full moon.
aaaahhhhwwwwwhhhhooooo
And want some sunshine on are face and to listen to the crack of the bat.
I think it's also a full moon.
aaaahhhhwwwwwhhhhooooo
Sorry if this sound a bit preachy, but maybe I have something to contribute.
I, too, have been reading with interest. My son went through a similar situation as a HS pitcher. He and another boy were both LHP. The player labeled the #1 pitcher (by our coach) had a dad who was head of security for our large school district. Very involved with the HS coach in regards to baseball, but also the coach's superior within the district. This player got lots of advantages throughout HS, including moving up to varsity SO year while my son worked his way up, playing JV both FR and SO years.
We "took the high road" and waited for things to work themselves out. It was tough, especially son's SR year when college coaches came calling and HS coach still insisted on telling every college coach that he'd be glad to fill out questionnaires, but my son wasn't even his #1 pitcher.
Fast forward to present. Son is a FR at a D1 school ranked in the top 10 of every preseason poll. Quality program. Other kid landed on his feet, but didn't have nearly as many options as my son.
Two things came out of his HS situation:
1. My son learned to work his tail off and prove what he could do. Every player that showed up this fall in college was good. Some expected to continue to shine simply because they always had. You truly only get out of it what you put in through commitment and sweat. My son's work ethic was formed during the years in HS when he had something to prove. It only gets tougher in college.
2. Although I'll be the first to say that I still mother and spoil my kids, struggling through an unfair situation in HS taught my son to be a man. Life is not fair. Pull up your boot straps and work your hardest. If you walk away at the end of the day, knowing you gave it your all, then you are a success. Early adversity can help you handle many challeges down the road. And it becomes a very special success when you know you've earned it yourself.
One last note, I think these situations feel far worse when you're right in the middle of them. I look back and remember how I felt and that time was so painful for me. It was amplified by my "mother bear" instincts to protect my child. Encourage your kids to find their own way. They'll be better adults in the long run if you let them struggle, and maybe even fail, while they are living at home and have the unconditional support of their family.
Just my two cents!
I, too, have been reading with interest. My son went through a similar situation as a HS pitcher. He and another boy were both LHP. The player labeled the #1 pitcher (by our coach) had a dad who was head of security for our large school district. Very involved with the HS coach in regards to baseball, but also the coach's superior within the district. This player got lots of advantages throughout HS, including moving up to varsity SO year while my son worked his way up, playing JV both FR and SO years.
We "took the high road" and waited for things to work themselves out. It was tough, especially son's SR year when college coaches came calling and HS coach still insisted on telling every college coach that he'd be glad to fill out questionnaires, but my son wasn't even his #1 pitcher.
Fast forward to present. Son is a FR at a D1 school ranked in the top 10 of every preseason poll. Quality program. Other kid landed on his feet, but didn't have nearly as many options as my son.
Two things came out of his HS situation:
1. My son learned to work his tail off and prove what he could do. Every player that showed up this fall in college was good. Some expected to continue to shine simply because they always had. You truly only get out of it what you put in through commitment and sweat. My son's work ethic was formed during the years in HS when he had something to prove. It only gets tougher in college.
2. Although I'll be the first to say that I still mother and spoil my kids, struggling through an unfair situation in HS taught my son to be a man. Life is not fair. Pull up your boot straps and work your hardest. If you walk away at the end of the day, knowing you gave it your all, then you are a success. Early adversity can help you handle many challeges down the road. And it becomes a very special success when you know you've earned it yourself.
One last note, I think these situations feel far worse when you're right in the middle of them. I look back and remember how I felt and that time was so painful for me. It was amplified by my "mother bear" instincts to protect my child. Encourage your kids to find their own way. They'll be better adults in the long run if you let them struggle, and maybe even fail, while they are living at home and have the unconditional support of their family.
Just my two cents!
quote:We "took the high road" and waited for things to work themselves out.
quote:Although I'll be the first to say that I still mother and spoil my kids, struggling through an unfair situation in HS taught my son to be a man. Life is not fair. Pull up your boot straps and work your hardest. If you walk away at the end of the day, knowing you gave it your all, then you are a success. Early adversity can help you handle many challeges down the road. And it becomes a very special success when you know you've earned it yourself.
KCbaseball - another outstanding post!!!! I quoted two things but the whole post was excellent
I believe those things too. Adversity is good. Don't shield your kids from it, let them learn from it as you say. Congrats to your son at Arkansas BTW. I know how hard it is to even make the travel team and it takes tremendous hard work plus talent.
Where have all the Moms for this topic been up till now BTW? They are just now starting to post and they are saving the best for last imho
Thanks ClevelandDad. I appreciate your comments.
Very interesting thread. Hard to imagine I could add anything different..but here goes.
IMO, there needs to be a distinction made between the importance of playing up in baseball terms as opposed to whether it is important when viewed as part of the accolades and prestige/fun of the high school experience.
Viewed solely from a baseball perspective, IMO, the only time it is important, absent a very rare situation, to play up is when your son is a freshman in college or a draft and sign minor leaguer out of high school. Strictly viewed in baseball terms, playing "up" in college or the minor leagues is when you are truly determining if you can play/compete against the best and at an elite level, and do it consistently. If you are not playing up and having some success, it starts to mean something in baseball.
If you don't play up in high school and are a multi sport athlete, I honestly don't feel playing up for 24-27 games, in your freshman/sophomore years, makes much difference in the players ultimate development and skill/talent level. If you are solely focused on baseball and do not play multiple sports, you are going to play enough outside of the 24-27 games to overcome, if that really happens, any setbacks from high school.
For our son, contrasted with those who played up in high school, he was one of about 8-10 who played in college and the only one to "play up/start" from nearly the very first day of his freshman year. Of those who played up in the few years before him, and after him, he is the only one who played through college and into minor league ball.
Do I think playing JV for 2 years in high school affected him in any baseball way. Absolutely not. "Playing up" is certainly prestigious while you are in high school. It just does not matter in any baseball way once that last high school game is played. I honestly don't think there is a college coach or professional scout who cares much, if at all, about playing up. They care about whether you can play!!!
IMO, there needs to be a distinction made between the importance of playing up in baseball terms as opposed to whether it is important when viewed as part of the accolades and prestige/fun of the high school experience.
Viewed solely from a baseball perspective, IMO, the only time it is important, absent a very rare situation, to play up is when your son is a freshman in college or a draft and sign minor leaguer out of high school. Strictly viewed in baseball terms, playing "up" in college or the minor leagues is when you are truly determining if you can play/compete against the best and at an elite level, and do it consistently. If you are not playing up and having some success, it starts to mean something in baseball.
If you don't play up in high school and are a multi sport athlete, I honestly don't feel playing up for 24-27 games, in your freshman/sophomore years, makes much difference in the players ultimate development and skill/talent level. If you are solely focused on baseball and do not play multiple sports, you are going to play enough outside of the 24-27 games to overcome, if that really happens, any setbacks from high school.
For our son, contrasted with those who played up in high school, he was one of about 8-10 who played in college and the only one to "play up/start" from nearly the very first day of his freshman year. Of those who played up in the few years before him, and after him, he is the only one who played through college and into minor league ball.
Do I think playing JV for 2 years in high school affected him in any baseball way. Absolutely not. "Playing up" is certainly prestigious while you are in high school. It just does not matter in any baseball way once that last high school game is played. I honestly don't think there is a college coach or professional scout who cares much, if at all, about playing up. They care about whether you can play!!!
Quillgirl
I have always enjoyed your posts, as they are well thought out, well written, never mean spirited, and usually entertaining. I have almost the exact same situation down to and including the position. I really like my sons HS program and coaches (more importantly, he likes them) not just because they are excellent coaches, but also because they are not greatly influenced by parents (booster clubs).
My son will get to start at catcher, although he would be happy playing anywhere and I would have preferred him to play third this season (he gets plenty of catching in the summer), but what ever helps the team is fine. Often in the summer, the team concept gets lost, in the summer the selection of a team is more often based on the team’s needs and player’s skills, and not on playing with friends and classmates. However, HS is different and I really believe that in high school you learn to play where you are needed for the good of team (classmates and friends).
What East Cobb team did your son play for last season? Teams coming out of East Cobb are always loaded with talent. Our summer team played the 14U Astros a couple of times last year and split with them, but they did win the one that really mattered.
By the way, my son got hooked on sweet tea when we played there last year! What do I need to do to break the habit?
I have always enjoyed your posts, as they are well thought out, well written, never mean spirited, and usually entertaining. I have almost the exact same situation down to and including the position. I really like my sons HS program and coaches (more importantly, he likes them) not just because they are excellent coaches, but also because they are not greatly influenced by parents (booster clubs).
My son will get to start at catcher, although he would be happy playing anywhere and I would have preferred him to play third this season (he gets plenty of catching in the summer), but what ever helps the team is fine. Often in the summer, the team concept gets lost, in the summer the selection of a team is more often based on the team’s needs and player’s skills, and not on playing with friends and classmates. However, HS is different and I really believe that in high school you learn to play where you are needed for the good of team (classmates and friends).
What East Cobb team did your son play for last season? Teams coming out of East Cobb are always loaded with talent. Our summer team played the 14U Astros a couple of times last year and split with them, but they did win the one that really mattered.
By the way, my son got hooked on sweet tea when we played there last year! What do I need to do to break the habit?
I think playing up is extremely impertant from a personall point of view. I believe the confidencfe gained can be priceless. My son was starting pitcher on Varsity as freshman and pitched all the big games including the championship games. He also played 18U allstar at 15 and district allstar also at 15. I remember his 1st district 18U all star game and he gave up 2 doubles on his 1st 2 pitches. I then watched him strike out 12 batters to gain acomplete game win 3-1. I was siiting beside 2 MLB scouts and they were talking about how well he adjusted for a 15yo. I truely believe that he knew he could face anybody. He has never looked back. College has been the toughest adjustment but he has done a great job accepting his role even though he was dissappointed. last year was the 1st time he pitched under 100 innings but he handled it very well.
BHD - I think you just may have made infielddad's point. Obviously, it was prestigious for your son to play up in high school but that experience didn't necessarily mean that he would also play up at the next level. Similarly, as EH and KCbaseball pointed out as well as others, if you go the traditional route through JV and then varsity, that experience will not necessarily be a hindrance to playing at the next level either.
As important as playing up in high school felt at the time I now realize that having to wait and win a position was actually better preparation for a freshman in college. For many that first and maybe second year might be the first time they have had to deal with adversity. Looking back I realize the frustration we felt at the time may have served a purpose.
I still believe that the frustration is more on the parents end than the players---keep in mind also that a frosh might well have a tough time being part of the team "social" scene due to the disparity in age
CD I agree with their view. To us it was not prestige but challenge. He tried out for a team at 15 that had 4 teams 16U,17U and 2 19U teams. They called and told him they wanted him on the 17U team and he told them he wanted to play on the 16U team because his friends were on that team. I had no say in it and never would try to influence him. The 16U team had great coaches and some great ball players that he knew. That was all he cared about.
Playing up lets you gage your level of play and if he had not been asked he would have played were he was told to. The hidher levels had better coaching in general and faced top competition. a couple of seasons he actually played for 4 teams. He played for a senior elite team last summer and fit right in. He got rookie of the year and some of these guys had famities which was really strange for him.
Playing up lets you gage your level of play and if he had not been asked he would have played were he was told to. The hidher levels had better coaching in general and faced top competition. a couple of seasons he actually played for 4 teams. He played for a senior elite team last summer and fit right in. He got rookie of the year and some of these guys had famities which was really strange for him.
I have also been reading this thread with interest, and while maybe some of the posts could have been stated more "politely", I think there is a lot here for parents to learn, especially parents of HS freshmen or college freshmen.
So I will tell my little story of how dumb I was as the mom of a HS freshman, and maybe someone will learn from it and not be quite as dumb.
My son attended a small private HS with decent sports teams, but nothing like some of the teams mentioned above where 100+ players are trying out for a freshman team. They only had 2 teams, V and JV, and maybe a total of 50-60 players trying out. At the start of tryouts, the announcement was made that no freshmen would be considered for varsity. That was understandable and my son became the #1 pitcher on JV and played 3B when not pitching. A few weeks into the season, he was invited to accompany the varsity as a backup for a weekend tourney because a couple of players were missing. It was understood that he would just be sitting the bench. I arrived at the first game a few minutes late and there he was, playing 2B. From that game on, he started every varsity game, taking a turn at almost every position (except catcher), but still also pitching for JV on nights the varsity didn't play. He also became the carrier of equipment, and the cleaner-upper of the dugout, etc. for varsity - the older players said that "freshmen" were required to do that, LOL! My son understood where he belonged in the food chain, and quietly showed respect for his elders.
His mom, however, was not so bright. I sat in the bleachers at varsity games, quietly watching, clapping for all the players, but wondering a little bit why the parents of the older players didn't seem very outgoing to me. Gee, why didn't anyone say "hey, your son's pretty good for a freshman, glad he's playing for the team"? Well, DUH!!! I finally realized that my son was "stealing" the spot of that parent's son, or that parent's son's junior or senior friend (especially since he played different positions from game to game). Looking back I can't believe I was so dumb that I didn't look at it that way from the start, but somehow it illustrates a little about what it's like to be the parent of a freshman. Then when they get to college it's a whole new "ballgame" being the parent of a freshman. HINT: Those other players were all the stars of their HS teams, too!
So I will tell my little story of how dumb I was as the mom of a HS freshman, and maybe someone will learn from it and not be quite as dumb.
My son attended a small private HS with decent sports teams, but nothing like some of the teams mentioned above where 100+ players are trying out for a freshman team. They only had 2 teams, V and JV, and maybe a total of 50-60 players trying out. At the start of tryouts, the announcement was made that no freshmen would be considered for varsity. That was understandable and my son became the #1 pitcher on JV and played 3B when not pitching. A few weeks into the season, he was invited to accompany the varsity as a backup for a weekend tourney because a couple of players were missing. It was understood that he would just be sitting the bench. I arrived at the first game a few minutes late and there he was, playing 2B. From that game on, he started every varsity game, taking a turn at almost every position (except catcher), but still also pitching for JV on nights the varsity didn't play. He also became the carrier of equipment, and the cleaner-upper of the dugout, etc. for varsity - the older players said that "freshmen" were required to do that, LOL! My son understood where he belonged in the food chain, and quietly showed respect for his elders.
His mom, however, was not so bright. I sat in the bleachers at varsity games, quietly watching, clapping for all the players, but wondering a little bit why the parents of the older players didn't seem very outgoing to me. Gee, why didn't anyone say "hey, your son's pretty good for a freshman, glad he's playing for the team"? Well, DUH!!! I finally realized that my son was "stealing" the spot of that parent's son, or that parent's son's junior or senior friend (especially since he played different positions from game to game). Looking back I can't believe I was so dumb that I didn't look at it that way from the start, but somehow it illustrates a little about what it's like to be the parent of a freshman. Then when they get to college it's a whole new "ballgame" being the parent of a freshman. HINT: Those other players were all the stars of their HS teams, too!
MN-Mom, I can see that happening. I hope not.
Catcher28, there is not yet a cure for sweet-tea addiction. Try the old "Arnold Palmer" concoction that my husband loves: Half sweet tea and half lemonade. At least it's not 100% tea! PM sent to you.
Catcher28, there is not yet a cure for sweet-tea addiction. Try the old "Arnold Palmer" concoction that my husband loves: Half sweet tea and half lemonade. At least it's not 100% tea! PM sent to you.
Great post MN-Mom, I did the same thing. I think it was also about the time that I started actually noticing that the starter's parents sort of hung out with each other, and non-starters parents were either huddled in small groups complaining about the coach or sitting by themselves looking alienated.
I decided then to try to spend more time with non-starter parents and make more of an effort to make them feel welcome. Seemed like there was nothing I could do about complainers because I had nothing to complain about, so I couldn't understand their situation. But now with my 2nd time around (13 yr old) I'm trying to be more of a "team" person and recognize all the parents, instead of hanging out with only with those I feel "comfortable" with.
I decided then to try to spend more time with non-starter parents and make more of an effort to make them feel welcome. Seemed like there was nothing I could do about complainers because I had nothing to complain about, so I couldn't understand their situation. But now with my 2nd time around (13 yr old) I'm trying to be more of a "team" person and recognize all the parents, instead of hanging out with only with those I feel "comfortable" with.
My LHP son played JV last year and went 7-0. He completely dominated. I kept wondering when they were going to call him up to varsity, especially since the varsity team was struggling with a losing record. It finally happened in the playoffs, but too late for him to make a difference.
At the time I thought they were a bunch of knuckleheads, but I shut up. After the season was over, I changed my mind. I realized he got a tremendous amount of innings as the #1 starter on JV, his K/BB ratio vastly improved, and most importantly he kept working with his catcher who will catch him on varsity this year.
If it will it will, if it won't it won't.
At the time I thought they were a bunch of knuckleheads, but I shut up. After the season was over, I changed my mind. I realized he got a tremendous amount of innings as the #1 starter on JV, his K/BB ratio vastly improved, and most importantly he kept working with his catcher who will catch him on varsity this year.
If it will it will, if it won't it won't.
To all,..this hasbeen/is a great thread!!
I've enjoyed every minute of it & learn new things every day!!
We are an eclectic group,...and while that might mean we get a little hot and spicey now and then,..its still what makes IMO a good stewpot, great!!!
With regards to the baseball issues at hand:
If I knew then,..what I know now,...perhaps I may still have some sanity! ha!
Thank goodness life's lessons get better with age! Looking back on baseball situations, never seems as intense as when it was actually happening.
Thank goodness we get to live and learn and remember back with less intensity. Funny how the power of time can heal and put things into an easier perspective.
For the most part, things usually work themselves out.
Sometimes ya just cant interfere with fait, you just have to ride through it, one life curveball at a time.
I've enjoyed every minute of it & learn new things every day!!
We are an eclectic group,...and while that might mean we get a little hot and spicey now and then,..its still what makes IMO a good stewpot, great!!!
With regards to the baseball issues at hand:
If I knew then,..what I know now,...perhaps I may still have some sanity! ha!
Thank goodness life's lessons get better with age! Looking back on baseball situations, never seems as intense as when it was actually happening.
Thank goodness we get to live and learn and remember back with less intensity. Funny how the power of time can heal and put things into an easier perspective.
For the most part, things usually work themselves out.
Sometimes ya just cant interfere with fait, you just have to ride through it, one life curveball at a time.
We only experienced that on one team. My son was a minor bantam and he was called up to playe all Magor bantam tournaments. The parents were openly rude because my son had a regular starting position in the rotation. The coach took a lot of heat as did my son. He grew from that experience and just put thye blinders on. That was a very disfunctional team and was a great learning experience and part of the mental toughness that a player needs.
Please give me your opinion
My son is 12years old and a very talented Travell baseball player who has been demolishing pitchers up and down the West Coast. Well this weekend he has try-outs for his HS freshman baseball team, the team will have mostly 9th graders. Now do you think my son at the age of 12 is too young to play with kids in the 9th grade.
Thanks for comments
My son is 12years old and a very talented Travell baseball player who has been demolishing pitchers up and down the West Coast. Well this weekend he has try-outs for his HS freshman baseball team, the team will have mostly 9th graders. Now do you think my son at the age of 12 is too young to play with kids in the 9th grade.
Thanks for comments
The difference in the maturity and interests of my 9th grader and every 12 or 13 yo boy that I know is HUGE. The 9th graders wouldn't give the time of day to a 12 year old, whom they'd consider a little kid no matter how talented. Though your son may be a total stud, I don't think I'd be so eager to have him mixing with the 14-15 year olds. Socially and emotionally, these age groups are at very different places and teams are about more than just sports.
Proceed with caution. I am doing so with my 9th grader who's playing Varsity. I am going to end up being a bad guy at some point when he's invited to a party thrown by upper classmen and I will say NO WAY. Or when the Jrs and Srs hang together on road trips and leave him out. Many potholes lie ahead.
Proceed with caution. I am doing so with my 9th grader who's playing Varsity. I am going to end up being a bad guy at some point when he's invited to a party thrown by upper classmen and I will say NO WAY. Or when the Jrs and Srs hang together on road trips and leave him out. Many potholes lie ahead.
quote:Originally posted by Cleanuphitter:
Now do you think my son at the age of 12 is too young to play with kids in the 9th grade.
At 13, my son was given the opportunity to come up and play "Fall Ball" with not only his own schools HS players but HS players from other area schools. We allowed him to do it because of the BB experience he would get and just the fact that the Varsity Coach had extended the invitation.
Looking back, I would still do it the same. He did get a lot of experience and got to see that a 13 year old stud on a 13 year old team doesn't mean that you can even sniff a FB from a 17 year old Varsity Pitcher bringing gas. Good experience from the mental side of things. He didn't get down on himself. He just gave it his best shot.
Although I wasn't in the dugout during games, I'm sure he probably saw a few things and heard a few discussions that he probably wouldn't have with kids his own age......I guess everyone has to grow up eventually. You have to take the good with the bad.
Good luck with you decision.
quillgirl you have a great point and I dont want rush anything but I dont want to stop the ball rolling either as long as its rolling in the right direction. Its a little crazy for me right now because I dont know if I'll be coaching little league this season or sitting in HS bleachers.(what to what to do) The way I see it is if he makes the Freshman team he's in the HS system allready and if he dosent make it (its a blessing in disguise).
I guess each case is diffrent, not every kid is going to be the next Robert Stock.............enrolling into USC at the age of 16 WOW!!!!
I guess each case is diffrent, not every kid is going to be the next Robert Stock.............enrolling into USC at the age of 16 WOW!!!!
If he's that good and self motivated, the ball will not stop because he played another happy season with his peers.
Two comments about "playing up":
1. If you do it, hedge your bets. Put your son on two teams, one that is older, and one that is his own age. This assures that he continues to get the experience of demolishing pitchers everywhere he goes. That is a fun thing. He should not be deprived of that. It may not last forever, either -- in fact I can assure you it won't. It's also fun for him to have his friends recognize him as a stud. One day he might wash out of baseball; let him have those memories.
This may sound like license to brag, and maybe it is, but let's face it, successful athletes have a lot of self-confidence, maybe even cockiness. That confidence can give him the strength he may need later to have faith in himself to push through adversity, when it comes. And fear not, it will come.
I just hate to see folks in a big rush to have their kids play up, only to take away those years when their boy is hitting .600 and put him into a demoralizing situation. Seeking out challenges is a reasonable goal, but 12 is awfully young to be taking away the fun of knowing you're the best kid in your loop.
2. I don't care how good your 12-year-old is, he's not ready to play with 15's. Don't kid yourself. If you send your kid out there you are asking for him to end up feeling humiliated.
Your kid might be able to handle a tougher fastball. But the difference between pitchers at those two ages is not just velocity, though that plays a big part. 15's will have sharp breaking pitches and good feel for changeups. Some will have spot control, many will have learned the art of setting a kid up to make bad contact or to take foolish swings. Hitting against those odds is something more easily learned in incremental steps.
Over time, you also learn to adjust your expectations. Your son may be hitting .700 now, but by the end of high school if he's hitting .450 he'll lead his district. If he were to go out there and hit .300 right now, that would in fact be a great performance, but he would feel like he was failing. But if he goes from .700 to .550 to .400 over the next two years of travel ball, and then builds back up through his HS years, his confidence can be strong throughout.
Other reasons not to "play up" that much: the jump to -3 bats, the larger diamonds, the fact that what is now a HR will become a fly out to shallow outfield, the fact that his position options are limited because that throw from the SS hole is beyond him at this age, the fact that he's not going to have the leg speed to keep up with older boys.
My experience is that a lot of the boys your kid is pounding on will leave baseball at age 13 or 14. By age 15-16, you are sifting down to only those guys who can compete at high school level and beyond. Even if your kid is hitting HR's every time up and striking out every batter he faced at 12u, he still isn't ready to face high school 15's.
Playing up is OK, but try it in one-year increments first. Three years? By freshman year, he may be able to hang against high school competition that includes some seniors. But putting a pubescent kid on the field with a group of young adults is going too far. His development would most likely suffer. He might even get hurt.
1. If you do it, hedge your bets. Put your son on two teams, one that is older, and one that is his own age. This assures that he continues to get the experience of demolishing pitchers everywhere he goes. That is a fun thing. He should not be deprived of that. It may not last forever, either -- in fact I can assure you it won't. It's also fun for him to have his friends recognize him as a stud. One day he might wash out of baseball; let him have those memories.
This may sound like license to brag, and maybe it is, but let's face it, successful athletes have a lot of self-confidence, maybe even cockiness. That confidence can give him the strength he may need later to have faith in himself to push through adversity, when it comes. And fear not, it will come.
I just hate to see folks in a big rush to have their kids play up, only to take away those years when their boy is hitting .600 and put him into a demoralizing situation. Seeking out challenges is a reasonable goal, but 12 is awfully young to be taking away the fun of knowing you're the best kid in your loop.
2. I don't care how good your 12-year-old is, he's not ready to play with 15's. Don't kid yourself. If you send your kid out there you are asking for him to end up feeling humiliated.
Your kid might be able to handle a tougher fastball. But the difference between pitchers at those two ages is not just velocity, though that plays a big part. 15's will have sharp breaking pitches and good feel for changeups. Some will have spot control, many will have learned the art of setting a kid up to make bad contact or to take foolish swings. Hitting against those odds is something more easily learned in incremental steps.
Over time, you also learn to adjust your expectations. Your son may be hitting .700 now, but by the end of high school if he's hitting .450 he'll lead his district. If he were to go out there and hit .300 right now, that would in fact be a great performance, but he would feel like he was failing. But if he goes from .700 to .550 to .400 over the next two years of travel ball, and then builds back up through his HS years, his confidence can be strong throughout.
Other reasons not to "play up" that much: the jump to -3 bats, the larger diamonds, the fact that what is now a HR will become a fly out to shallow outfield, the fact that his position options are limited because that throw from the SS hole is beyond him at this age, the fact that he's not going to have the leg speed to keep up with older boys.
My experience is that a lot of the boys your kid is pounding on will leave baseball at age 13 or 14. By age 15-16, you are sifting down to only those guys who can compete at high school level and beyond. Even if your kid is hitting HR's every time up and striking out every batter he faced at 12u, he still isn't ready to face high school 15's.
Playing up is OK, but try it in one-year increments first. Three years? By freshman year, he may be able to hang against high school competition that includes some seniors. But putting a pubescent kid on the field with a group of young adults is going too far. His development would most likely suffer. He might even get hurt.
Thanks for the input Midlo&Co
You've made some intresting points, Iam not worried about him not being big enough, fast enough or talented enough, Not to bragg but my son is like a babby bull thats been playing baseball all his life.
I just dont want a 9th grader/Who ever, rewarding my son with drugs or alcohol after a game or on a road tripp.
You've made some intresting points, Iam not worried about him not being big enough, fast enough or talented enough, Not to bragg but my son is like a babby bull thats been playing baseball all his life.
I just dont want a 9th grader/Who ever, rewarding my son with drugs or alcohol after a game or on a road tripp.
CU what that have to do with playing up ? Drugs are everywhere even before HS. If you bring him up right he won't likely go near the stuff. Talk to him about peer pressure and the results of taking drugs. I showed my kids and told them these guys were all someones darling kids at one time. Most HS guys know the dopers and stay clear. Our kids were not allowed to go to parties.
BobbleheadDoll
You are absolutely right drugs are everywhere, Iam just concern about the topic's the older kids will be talking about. But if he makes it Iam going to keep him on both the travell and Freshman baseball teams.
But thanks for you opinion.
You are absolutely right drugs are everywhere, Iam just concern about the topic's the older kids will be talking about. But if he makes it Iam going to keep him on both the travell and Freshman baseball teams.
But thanks for you opinion.
Cleanup,
Please keep in mind that many if not most of us are the parents of players who played "up" and on select travel teams. Been there, done that. My own son's team was rated #6 on the West Coast, and one year he played 131 games against teams from several states. He once pitched--and got them out--against a varsity H.S. squad of 18 y.o.'s from Las Vegas when he was 13. Having said that, looking back, I can tell you I viewed it (at the time) as way more important than it turned out to be. What the heck does this prove? You will know what I mean by this someday.
12 playing with 15 yo's?
Your son sounds to me like an early maturer "Baby Bull". Many of these kids are more likely to quit baseball, especially when the late maturers start catching up. Your kid needs to play with kids he can attach to emotionally, not 15 y.o.'s. IMHO let the kid have a childhood.
Please keep in mind that many if not most of us are the parents of players who played "up" and on select travel teams. Been there, done that. My own son's team was rated #6 on the West Coast, and one year he played 131 games against teams from several states. He once pitched--and got them out--against a varsity H.S. squad of 18 y.o.'s from Las Vegas when he was 13. Having said that, looking back, I can tell you I viewed it (at the time) as way more important than it turned out to be. What the heck does this prove? You will know what I mean by this someday.
12 playing with 15 yo's?
Your son sounds to me like an early maturer "Baby Bull". Many of these kids are more likely to quit baseball, especially when the late maturers start catching up. Your kid needs to play with kids he can attach to emotionally, not 15 y.o.'s. IMHO let the kid have a childhood.
Midlo dad, That's a great post.
You covered just about everything.
Your post should be put someplace on this site for everybody to referance.
EH
You covered just about everything.
Your post should be put someplace on this site for everybody to referance.
EH
There's one thing that bug's me right now, And that's the fact that FDR, the parent that started this post is not here to read what everybody has posted on the Subject he started.
Now FDR, Come back and reread everything everybody has posted.
We all have went thru this, It's all part of the process.
So if you do read it come back and give us a response.
We need everybody's experience here to make this site work.
It might be what we want to hear.
And some here are Brutely honest. With no suger coating.
but they speak the truth from there experiance.
JMO
EH
Now FDR, Come back and reread everything everybody has posted.
We all have went thru this, It's all part of the process.
So if you do read it come back and give us a response.
We need everybody's experience here to make this site work.
It might be what we want to hear.
And some here are Brutely honest. With no suger coating.
but they speak the truth from there experiance.
JMO
EH
I think this would be a big mistake to let him play with freshman. Regardless of size. The move to a -3 bat is huge. Not to mention curves and change-ups. His swing may suffer and he may never get it back. He might get hurt for what? So he can say he was playing with high school kids. I had a friend growing up who threw gas, he pitched against high school kids as a 12yr old. He dominated. For one game, threw his arm out and NEVER recovered. Also what these kids talk about you don't want your son to hear. Let him grow-up and have fun. It means absolutely nothing for him to do this,accept ego. College's won't even look until he is a junior. And the coaching staff will already know who he is so that won't be an issue when he is a freshman. I'm sure you are real proud of him and that's great and it is an honor that he was even asked but try to keep everything on an even keel and not get to engulfed in this. You need to protect him not embrace this.
My high school team has a freshman team consisting of 7th, 8th and 9th graders. I feel the local summer leagues do not prepare these kids to play baseball at a higher level mentally and even physically. Before I did the freshman team it was usually a players junior year before they were ready to play varsity but now that I have went to the freshman team I have had numerous freshmen and sophomores make significant contributions to the varsity team. Two years ago I put a senior on the bench for a lack of production (didn't come up through the freshman team) and replaced him with a freshamn (did come up through the freshman team) and the freshman led us in hitting and provided great defense at 2B and we won the district tournament. I really don't think we win the tournament if the senior is playing.
My starting junior catcher got hurt and I had to go with my sophomore catcher who did come up through the freshman team last year. I have a sophomore left handed pitcher who might be able to be a dominant pitcher by his senior year but he was very fragile mentally. He would either throw a no hitter or walk 15 batters and give up 13 runs in two innings in little league. Now he is a very consistent pitcher and will probably have significant innings for our varsity staff. Does that mean he won't have struggles this year - no it doesn't. He is going to get lit up occasionally and I am going to put my arm around him and tell him in a couple of days he will go back out there for his next turn - I believe in him.
The moral for my story is there are tremendous number of reasons for playing up like this. I also found that when players who came up through my freshman team are WAY more mature and behave better in class as freshmen than the ones who don't play on the freshman team (I should know because I teach freshmen).
One thing I do is during the preseason when I have them from 3:15 to 5:45 the younger players work together with the older players and they learn by watching and following them. I have to pat myself and my coaches on the back because we have created an atmosphere where the older players enjoy helping the younger players. This time period is structured and organized with very little free time. I am sure there are conversations going on that most parents don't want their kids to hear but we are always moving and doing stuff so the conversaions are limited. When the season starts the freshmen team do their own thing. I hardly see them because the freshman coach has his own schedule and practice times so the contact with older players is pretty much over.
One last thing I don't have a problem with our 7th graders playing with 9th graders because that is how our Babe Ruth League is set up that way. They are already playing together so why not get them good instructional time together.
My starting junior catcher got hurt and I had to go with my sophomore catcher who did come up through the freshman team last year. I have a sophomore left handed pitcher who might be able to be a dominant pitcher by his senior year but he was very fragile mentally. He would either throw a no hitter or walk 15 batters and give up 13 runs in two innings in little league. Now he is a very consistent pitcher and will probably have significant innings for our varsity staff. Does that mean he won't have struggles this year - no it doesn't. He is going to get lit up occasionally and I am going to put my arm around him and tell him in a couple of days he will go back out there for his next turn - I believe in him.
The moral for my story is there are tremendous number of reasons for playing up like this. I also found that when players who came up through my freshman team are WAY more mature and behave better in class as freshmen than the ones who don't play on the freshman team (I should know because I teach freshmen).
One thing I do is during the preseason when I have them from 3:15 to 5:45 the younger players work together with the older players and they learn by watching and following them. I have to pat myself and my coaches on the back because we have created an atmosphere where the older players enjoy helping the younger players. This time period is structured and organized with very little free time. I am sure there are conversations going on that most parents don't want their kids to hear but we are always moving and doing stuff so the conversaions are limited. When the season starts the freshmen team do their own thing. I hardly see them because the freshman coach has his own schedule and practice times so the contact with older players is pretty much over.
One last thing I don't have a problem with our 7th graders playing with 9th graders because that is how our Babe Ruth League is set up that way. They are already playing together so why not get them good instructional time together.
Coach your situation is quite different than what cleanup hitter described. There is a group of kids 7th through 9th. Their friends are there. Not just a baby bull playing up. It may have helped your team but how about the kids? I'd like to know where they all are now? Not just the ones who did well but the ones that were superstars and probably aren't playing anymore. I've seen many kids who could do it but are not being rushed because there is no reason to be. I also speak from experience.
