CatchingCoach05 -
Re: "I have found in coaching HS baseball that playing kids up is a very touchy subject for everyone involved."
I think unwittingly hit on a very sensitive subject without being aware of it. Your post is right on about all of the considerations regarding the subject since I am not a HS coach. Part of my original past was asking what others have experienced regarding this subject. I appreciate your taking the time to objectively educate me on this.
I have learned some very valuable lessons from many of the posts here. As I mentioned in my last post, my wife and I "get it" now. This was due largely to comments from the board - some well meaning (as yours is), and others simply rude.
I came to this board hoping to learn some things (I have), and to be welcomed (TheEH did). My tone may have come across wrong in my original post as I think all parents can get emotional when dealing when issues surrounding their kids. Not having the exerience that many of you do, I did not fully understand some of the issues I needed to know to be a supportive parent. I now have that knowledge and am thankful that many took time to help me become wiser.
With that said, I never expected my post to create the amount of personal spiteful comments that it did. What started as a thread about a question of my son playing up deteriorated into a number of replies directly attacking my character and questioning my parenting. With a single post, abeit emotional one, many felt it was appropriate to publicly deride my character as a result. I actually read the rules of the board before I posted, and noticed the section saying the personal attacks were not allowed. My post was apparently polarizing enough to cause the policy to be waived by some.
I really had believed that this could become a board where I could learn and share experiences with other parents and coaches over the next couple of years. It's obvious that I clearly am looked at negatively by a number of you already. I am unsure why, but that is reality. In the same way that some coaches must deal with personality conflict in the dugout, there can also be clashes on this board. Since this board is a home for many of you, there is no need for the presence of someone who causes such strong negative emotions by a number of you.
So while I only joined the board last Friday, this will be my final post and I will be deleting my account and not returning. To those this makes happy, I don't take it personally. I'm not a quitter - just someone who got off to a bad start and realizes when it's time to move on.
No hard feelings. I'm NOT the father many have hinted I am. Nor am I a coaches nightmare. I guess you'll either chose to believe or disbelieve as you see fit.
As I leave, I again thank those that kindly offered insight and provided wisdom. To the others, I would simply ask that when you meet someone new (e.g. a new board member signs up), you can freely disagree with them in a manner that is not a personal attack on their character. This is a life lesson that I have stressed to my son and he understands it. I've told him that he will be man long after he's stopped playing baseball and that people will remember how he's treated them long after they forget his stats. His understanding of this makes me very proud.
Thanks once more to those who helped. I hope the sincerity of my thanks comes through. With all sincerity and respect to everyone (and I mean everyone),
FandA
Moderator - please delete my account. I did not see a link on the site to request this.
F&A, Don't let a few bad comments from people run you off. Hang in there. 
Hang around, F&A. Sometimes when a post hits on someone's hot buttons, they respond perhaps more strongly than they should and perhaps read too much into the post. Happens to all of us sometimes.
I'm a quiet and easy going guy and I've been burned at the stake a few times on here. 
There are some people with very strong opinions and if you don't see it their way you might take some abuse, sometimes life gives you more good than you deserve, sometimes you're going to get the bad end of the deal.
I worried that my son was going to get lost in the shuffle as a freshman when he was in high school and college. It's normal to worry about our kids and it's hard to let go, hard to know how much we should try to help. It's tough because we care, we all want what's best for our kids.
I also understand the coach's veiw because so many of my friends are coaches, they always have to deal with parents who want the world to revolve around their kid, (not saying that's you) I've seen so many and listened to so many parents who could not accept that the coach was right and that their kid just wasn't as good as the kid in front of him. What I heard from the parent and what I saw on the field were two different things. Sometimes the parent may be right ( you and me) but usually the coach knows what he's doing! The best thing we as parents can do is teach our kids to hustle and respect the coach, coach's seem to appreciate hard working kids and parents who let them do their job.
My older son's college coach got some "coaching advice" via email from a parent (not me) and the whole team ran so much in the next practice that kids from the track team came over and said they felt sorry for them.
There are some people with very strong opinions and if you don't see it their way you might take some abuse, sometimes life gives you more good than you deserve, sometimes you're going to get the bad end of the deal. I worried that my son was going to get lost in the shuffle as a freshman when he was in high school and college. It's normal to worry about our kids and it's hard to let go, hard to know how much we should try to help. It's tough because we care, we all want what's best for our kids.
I also understand the coach's veiw because so many of my friends are coaches, they always have to deal with parents who want the world to revolve around their kid, (not saying that's you) I've seen so many and listened to so many parents who could not accept that the coach was right and that their kid just wasn't as good as the kid in front of him. What I heard from the parent and what I saw on the field were two different things. Sometimes the parent may be right ( you and me)
but usually the coach knows what he's doing! The best thing we as parents can do is teach our kids to hustle and respect the coach, coach's seem to appreciate hard working kids and parents who let them do their job.My older son's college coach got some "coaching advice" via email from a parent (not me) and the whole team ran so much in the next practice that kids from the track team came over and said they felt sorry for them.
Fairness and Respect,
Please do not leave.
This had nothing to do with you personally.
It's almost a generic reaction to Parent's that want to know why junior didn't make any team for that matter, Not just your's are mine, but everybody's.
Understand what i'm saying??
You have come to this site at just the right time in your son's development.
It's great for info and Parental Theraphy. LOL
Your name is how you feel you should be treated.
That's fair, But nothing else in baseball is alway's fair.
These Coaches and other's have seen it all, Are played it all.
And were not alway's as PC as we should be but it's still a great site that need's new blood to survive.
Guess what, that's you??
But your name is to long? LOL
How about FDR, That demands respect?
Anyway don't leave me, You don't know how they treat me when your gone.
EH
Please do not leave.
This had nothing to do with you personally.
It's almost a generic reaction to Parent's that want to know why junior didn't make any team for that matter, Not just your's are mine, but everybody's.
Understand what i'm saying??
You have come to this site at just the right time in your son's development.
It's great for info and Parental Theraphy. LOL
Your name is how you feel you should be treated.
That's fair, But nothing else in baseball is alway's fair.
These Coaches and other's have seen it all, Are played it all.
And were not alway's as PC as we should be but it's still a great site that need's new blood to survive.
Guess what, that's you??
But your name is to long? LOL
How about FDR, That demands respect?
Anyway don't leave me, You don't know how they treat me when your gone.
EH
F&R,
I, too, welcome you to stay. No one on this board is really trying to villify you. Just the opposite, I think many here are profoundly trying to help you.
Coach May, one of my favorite posters, may have been blunt with you, but he was telling you the truth. Coaches have the right to run their programs for the benefit of the team and any one player or parent that detracts from that does so at his own peril.
It is better to learn this now than after-the-fact.
Be careful of some of the so-called nice coaches. Sometimes it is all a facade and how they really feel about you and your kid will eventually surface when it boils over.
I believe a guy like Coach May, even though he has rebuked you, would be the first one there supporting your kid when he had a rough outing or was feeling down. (For my part, it would be an honor for my kid to play for him, because I know he's the real deal.)
This is certainly tough love, but if we didn't care about this subject we wouldn't be wasting your time or ours.
Don't leave. Like a previous poster mentioned, we've all pretty much been grilled on this site. I know I have. Now that you have I think I speak on behalf of all HSBBW members and say: "Leave it between the lines. Welcome to the fold".
I, too, welcome you to stay. No one on this board is really trying to villify you. Just the opposite, I think many here are profoundly trying to help you.
Coach May, one of my favorite posters, may have been blunt with you, but he was telling you the truth. Coaches have the right to run their programs for the benefit of the team and any one player or parent that detracts from that does so at his own peril.
It is better to learn this now than after-the-fact.
Be careful of some of the so-called nice coaches. Sometimes it is all a facade and how they really feel about you and your kid will eventually surface when it boils over.
I believe a guy like Coach May, even though he has rebuked you, would be the first one there supporting your kid when he had a rough outing or was feeling down. (For my part, it would be an honor for my kid to play for him, because I know he's the real deal.)
This is certainly tough love, but if we didn't care about this subject we wouldn't be wasting your time or ours.
Don't leave. Like a previous poster mentioned, we've all pretty much been grilled on this site. I know I have. Now that you have I think I speak on behalf of all HSBBW members and say: "Leave it between the lines. Welcome to the fold".
Fairness and Repect high school coaches are always under scrutiny and sometimes we go into defense mode and end up attacking out of it by nature. I am not going to comment on what Coach May said or how he said it because I have no idea what he has went through. I will say I understand why he went that way because initially I did too. I have been attacked by parents physically. I had a guy come onto the field and try to punch me because I sat his kid for one game to let another kid play. I even told him he would be starting the next game again. After the game he grabbed me and took a swing. It's a crazy world.
I took a step back and reread your post and decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and see how other posts you had panned out. So far I think you are honest and upfront so because of that I don't think you should leave. Also, don't ever go onto the hitting forum - it doesn't matter what you put or prove they will say it's wrong. I stopped reading any of the posts it's so bad. Outside of that you will find good people on here who are honest. But just like in the real world they sometimes talk before they think - heaven knows I do it all the time and I stay in trouble because of it.
Texan I agree completely with what you say that sometimes coaches in high school are in it for the wrong reasons but that is anything. I would say out of 100 high school coaches the vast majority are there for the right reasons. Not all summer teams are coached by saints. I have seen some do things that make you wonder why they are doing it or are so obvious they have the team because they are using it as a spotlight for their son. High school ball is important but there is a place and need for summer ball - I just don't think summer / travel ball surpasses high school.
I took a step back and reread your post and decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and see how other posts you had panned out. So far I think you are honest and upfront so because of that I don't think you should leave. Also, don't ever go onto the hitting forum - it doesn't matter what you put or prove they will say it's wrong. I stopped reading any of the posts it's so bad. Outside of that you will find good people on here who are honest. But just like in the real world they sometimes talk before they think - heaven knows I do it all the time and I stay in trouble because of it.
Texan I agree completely with what you say that sometimes coaches in high school are in it for the wrong reasons but that is anything. I would say out of 100 high school coaches the vast majority are there for the right reasons. Not all summer teams are coached by saints. I have seen some do things that make you wonder why they are doing it or are so obvious they have the team because they are using it as a spotlight for their son. High school ball is important but there is a place and need for summer ball - I just don't think summer / travel ball surpasses high school.
Coach2709,
Summer/Travel ball is used for getting noticed.
HS ball is for Community Pride and making Memories.
Also HS ball can make players bigger then life to young players that look up to them.
It can be very humbleing.
You won't get that in summer ball.
Summer/Travel ball is used for getting noticed.
HS ball is for Community Pride and making Memories.
Also HS ball can make players bigger then life to young players that look up to them.
It can be very humbleing.
You won't get that in summer ball.
F&R First of all I am truly sorry if I offended you. After reading my post I can definitely see how I could have. It was not meant to offend you but to give you an idea of how a HS coach would feel about this situation. I hope you will continue to post here. And I hope that this situation works out for you and your son.
I second what BUM and others have said.
You seem like an intelligent person and obviously love your son.
We all get in each others faces now and then and hopefully we grow from the experience.
These comments are tough love and as BUM said coachmay is the real deal. You know he is trying to help. Don't ever take it personally.
You seem like an intelligent person and obviously love your son.
We all get in each others faces now and then and hopefully we grow from the experience.
These comments are tough love and as BUM said coachmay is the real deal. You know he is trying to help. Don't ever take it personally.
Hey F&R
You do want to be here. If you want to start over pick another username and re-register, many do.
I have a Son playing Varsity as a Junior (he also played Varsity as a Sopomore) and a Freshman who will be rostered as a Freshman but will be playing JV also. This allows him to play 3 games a week. If they roster him as a JV, then he can not play Freshman. 2 games a week on JV only. My Junior also was rostered as a Freshman and played Freshman and JV. He has not sat one inning in two years and will not sit 1 inning this year(unless injured). Freshman who make Varsity around here are not looked upon kindly by upperclassman Varsity. They are very rare also, 1 in the past 3 years. The last Freshman to make Varsity was 6'4" and 215 lbs. He could crush the ball when he hit it right and had a decent glove. He was rated a 9 by PG the only time he went. He ended up on the bench alot playing behind an upperclassman 1st baseman. He played half the innings that my Son got (at best), he became frustrated and eventually decided to focus on Football and has not played baseball since. His parents made it known that they were all frustrated, which only served to further alianate him from his team, which I am sure provided imputis for him to quit the game.
You do want to be here. If you want to start over pick another username and re-register, many do.
I have a Son playing Varsity as a Junior (he also played Varsity as a Sopomore) and a Freshman who will be rostered as a Freshman but will be playing JV also. This allows him to play 3 games a week. If they roster him as a JV, then he can not play Freshman. 2 games a week on JV only. My Junior also was rostered as a Freshman and played Freshman and JV. He has not sat one inning in two years and will not sit 1 inning this year(unless injured). Freshman who make Varsity around here are not looked upon kindly by upperclassman Varsity. They are very rare also, 1 in the past 3 years. The last Freshman to make Varsity was 6'4" and 215 lbs. He could crush the ball when he hit it right and had a decent glove. He was rated a 9 by PG the only time he went. He ended up on the bench alot playing behind an upperclassman 1st baseman. He played half the innings that my Son got (at best), he became frustrated and eventually decided to focus on Football and has not played baseball since. His parents made it known that they were all frustrated, which only served to further alianate him from his team, which I am sure provided imputis for him to quit the game.
F&R - welcome to the hsbbweb. The only way to prove you are not a quitter is by not quitting.
I think Coach May's advice is correct, frankly.
I like to see kids who pick themselves up by the bootstraps and do something positive when things don't go their way. Getting depressed over a setback is not the way to handle things imho. Your son is far from the first one to ever suffer a setback in baseball. What would really score points with those coaches is to show some leadership down on the freshman team and work his way back up to varsity from there - even if it took some time to accomplish that. The positive I would take out of it is your son is getting to play more by participating on two teams. What difference does it make what roster he is listed on other than ego. Eh's son's experience is similar to my own son's. He played freshman team, then sophmore JV, and then varsity junior and senior. What is so demeaning about that progression?
What I hear in your posts is that your son is so much more advanced than the other kids and that anything less than his/your expectation is beneath him. This comes across as a prima donna attitude. Assuming that is true, how do you think that comes across to the other kids/coaches on the team? Maybe this coach is also trying to teach something about teamwork and humility before promoting him. Maybe money and politics are also involved as you suggest but he is going to have to learn how to deal with that sooner or later. Also, I doubt every kid on your son's select team was picked from a blind tryout of candidates so I am guessing there is politics in that situation as well.
In my view, let the ego stuff go. He needs to learn how to rise on the high school team on his own merits. That may include learning to think about others more than being so caught up with his own circumstances. If he is already learning to sulk when things don't go his way, he'll never make it in college or pro baseball imho. At this rate, it sounds like he will have a difficult time making it at the high school level let alone the next level.
I think Coach May's advice is correct, frankly.
I like to see kids who pick themselves up by the bootstraps and do something positive when things don't go their way. Getting depressed over a setback is not the way to handle things imho. Your son is far from the first one to ever suffer a setback in baseball. What would really score points with those coaches is to show some leadership down on the freshman team and work his way back up to varsity from there - even if it took some time to accomplish that. The positive I would take out of it is your son is getting to play more by participating on two teams. What difference does it make what roster he is listed on other than ego. Eh's son's experience is similar to my own son's. He played freshman team, then sophmore JV, and then varsity junior and senior. What is so demeaning about that progression?
What I hear in your posts is that your son is so much more advanced than the other kids and that anything less than his/your expectation is beneath him. This comes across as a prima donna attitude. Assuming that is true, how do you think that comes across to the other kids/coaches on the team? Maybe this coach is also trying to teach something about teamwork and humility before promoting him. Maybe money and politics are also involved as you suggest but he is going to have to learn how to deal with that sooner or later. Also, I doubt every kid on your son's select team was picked from a blind tryout of candidates so I am guessing there is politics in that situation as well.
In my view, let the ego stuff go. He needs to learn how to rise on the high school team on his own merits. That may include learning to think about others more than being so caught up with his own circumstances. If he is already learning to sulk when things don't go his way, he'll never make it in college or pro baseball imho. At this rate, it sounds like he will have a difficult time making it at the high school level let alone the next level.
CD, where did fr say his son was depressed or sulking? I sure missed that part.
What is wrong with wanting to play at the highest level possible?
What is wrong with wanting to play at the highest level possible?
quote:So the day comes out that they announce the JV roster and - you guessed it - his name is not there. The JV coach finds him that day and says "don't worry kid - you're name's not on the roster, but you'll be playing up." The freshman team is pretty bad, and now the kid is depressed. He had the highest batting average, lowest ERA, and highest K's/Inning on the JV team and now he's sent down to the Freshman team. Kids that hadn't even GONE to a JV winter ball game ended up on the roster.
My apologies, cd. Missed that along the way.
As to the second item: What is wrong with wanting to play at the highest level possible?
As to the second item: What is wrong with wanting to play at the highest level possible?
Playing up is a two edged sword, for sure. It often means less playing time.
Last year my son was pulled up to varsity as a freshman to back up the catcher who was a senior. He got a lot fewer at bats than if he had stayed on JV, which took its toll.
But it was what the team needed - they wanted the senior catcher to pitch some, and needed my son to play defense for those times.
When your kid gets to high school, you have to let go. It is an adjustment for most of us who were very involved in our kids' youth teams, but in my view it is vital that kids find their own way in high school.
It's not really about baseball - it is about growing up.
I talk with my son's coaches now and then - but NEVER about how they are running the team. I figure my job is to watch the games, enjoy my son's baseball journey, help him grow in and through the sport, and help the coaching staff with fundraising!
Last year my son was pulled up to varsity as a freshman to back up the catcher who was a senior. He got a lot fewer at bats than if he had stayed on JV, which took its toll.
But it was what the team needed - they wanted the senior catcher to pitch some, and needed my son to play defense for those times.
When your kid gets to high school, you have to let go. It is an adjustment for most of us who were very involved in our kids' youth teams, but in my view it is vital that kids find their own way in high school.
It's not really about baseball - it is about growing up.
I talk with my son's coaches now and then - but NEVER about how they are running the team. I figure my job is to watch the games, enjoy my son's baseball journey, help him grow in and through the sport, and help the coaching staff with fundraising!
quote:What is wrong with wanting to play at the highest level possible?
Nothing at all. Why are you asking me that question?
Method (A) talks about being depressed, blaming political intrigue, and transferring schools to achieve the goal of playing at the highest level possible.
Method (B) talks about humbling yourself at first at the lower level and working yourself back up to the highest level. Turning a negative into a positive if you will. That still may not be enough in the short term I realize, but many things are in one's perception rather than the actual reality.
Asked because I got the impression from your post that there was something wrong with a player desiring to play at the highest level he could. Perhaps it was the talk about ego, humility, beneath expectations, letting the ego stuff go, etc. Since apparently that impression was incorrect, never mind.
quote:would simply ask that when you meet someone new (e.g. a new board member signs up), you can freely disagree with them in a manner that is not a personal attack on their character.
This is a SIMPLE request and IMO one that should be granted.
Hang tough Fairness and Respect.
We've all been tarred and feathered ( some of us more than others!) at one time or another.
Not excusing the behavior of those who get a bee in their bonnet ( so-to-speak ) every so often.
With that said, I dont think we can spell baseball without attaching the words passion and emotion to the end of it.
While I believe most posters had good intentions, I will say that IMHO some came on pretty harsh, especially keeping in mind that they were posting to a new member of the HSBBW.
If you read the latest, most have come around and would probably offer to buy ya a beer or a soda if we were all sittin' around at the corner cafe. Unfortunately we arent, and sometimes the written " tone " of a post can zap someone the wrong way, even if it was unintentional. And then again,..some may have had a rotten day, have forgotten what it was like to be " new " and your post just happened to be sittin' in the middle of their bullseye.
I for one extend another hearty Welcome!!!
Glad you held your position and are keeping your head high. I respect that.
We are here to ask questions. We are here to give advice, to listen, to learn, and to give opinions.
Some of us have even been lucky enough to have made some great contacts and even better IMO, some great friendships.
Perhaps if we all used a little more Respect & Fairness when posting, our opinions ( even the argumentitive ones ) would be received with a better understanding. I believe we can agree to disagree without being insultive or grumpie.
The HSBBW is a great avenue, even if the highway gets a bit bumpy every once in a while!
Keep postin!!!
Again,..WELCOME!!!!
Shortstopmom will now get off her thrown and back onto her highhorse!
Forgive me please!!! Im so sorry for telling the truth. Im so sorry for getting sick and tired of people blaming the coaches for holding their kids back. Ok I was too harsh. In the future I will not post unless I ask first if the person wants the truth or what they want to hear.
F&R,
For whatever the hell this is worth - If you do come back - think about this.
You may not like the advice you got from Coach May - but - IMO - it is the cold hard truth. This game isnt some fairness contest - especially at the collegiate level. Its a game that requires you to take a hard punch to the face - and get right back in the ring. With steely eyed persistence.
And sometimes more than once.
You will probably endure even worse than what you currently perceive as a rough situation. And you wont be able to do very much about it either. And that is just the way it goes in this game.
How would you feel if your son got hammered at the collegiate level - and they took $10,000 out of your pocket to boot - and left him with a DOA college career?
You live and learn baby. And you stay out of it - because it is their deal now. Not yours.
You tell him to be a man - take the punches and get back up - and kick some *** on his next roadshow.
And you wish him luck.
Thats about it - IMO.
For whatever the hell this is worth - If you do come back - think about this.
You may not like the advice you got from Coach May - but - IMO - it is the cold hard truth. This game isnt some fairness contest - especially at the collegiate level. Its a game that requires you to take a hard punch to the face - and get right back in the ring. With steely eyed persistence.
And sometimes more than once.
You will probably endure even worse than what you currently perceive as a rough situation. And you wont be able to do very much about it either. And that is just the way it goes in this game.
How would you feel if your son got hammered at the collegiate level - and they took $10,000 out of your pocket to boot - and left him with a DOA college career?
You live and learn baby. And you stay out of it - because it is their deal now. Not yours.
You tell him to be a man - take the punches and get back up - and kick some *** on his next roadshow.
And you wish him luck.
Thats about it - IMO.
Right on ITS,
That's all a parent can do.
Support with a positive attitude.
Some parent's learn earlier then other's.
Some never learn?
I think that FDR, Recieved a slap of reality rather than a little nudge.
But like I said it wasn't personal, Sometime's people do not read every post they just jump in the middle and post there thought's on the subject and don't even know who there posting to.
So please don't leave FDR,
We want you on that Wall, We need you on that Wall, In places were nobody talks about it?
We want the Truth,
You can't handle the Truth.
EH
That's all a parent can do.
Support with a positive attitude.
Some parent's learn earlier then other's.
Some never learn?
I think that FDR, Recieved a slap of reality rather than a little nudge.
But like I said it wasn't personal, Sometime's people do not read every post they just jump in the middle and post there thought's on the subject and don't even know who there posting to.
So please don't leave FDR,
We want you on that Wall, We need you on that Wall, In places were nobody talks about it?
We want the Truth,
You can't handle the Truth.
EH
Thats the kind of attitude that pumps me up!!! I want that kid on my team. Hell I want that kid to work for me. No I want that kid to run my business. And if I had a daughter I want him to marry her. Life is not fair. Baseball is not fair. What the heck is fair? One person sees an obstacle and makes excuses about how they can not cross it. Another person sees it as an opportunity to show everyone that he can overcome it. Gamer you are old school man. I bet your sons play the game old school too. In fact I know they do. That is the highest compliment I can give a player. You are an old school tough a** baller. I go to with war with those men and they go to war with me. My son better play the game old school and practice old school. Or he can get off the field. Did I mention that I told the JV coach to cut my oldest son his Freshman year? He thought he was going to make the team because he was my son. He thought wrong. Best lesson he has ever learned. Playing college football now. JUST PLAY THE GAME!!!!!
Coach May,
I appreciate all the things you are saying very much. Especially coming from someone like you.
(And I may be old school - but as Muhammed Ali said - "I am still pretty") LOL
Seriously - I think all we can do is tell the truth as we see it.
Folks dont have to agree. We are even allowed to argue here. Sometimes incessantly.
That is what I think makes this site so special - and it took me awhile to understand that as well.
It is all just advice - some people will take it - some will leave it and some will be undecided. As long as we have the differing opinions coming honestly - it is all worth it IMO.
I appreciate all the things you are saying very much. Especially coming from someone like you.
(And I may be old school - but as Muhammed Ali said - "I am still pretty") LOL
Seriously - I think all we can do is tell the truth as we see it.
Folks dont have to agree. We are even allowed to argue here. Sometimes incessantly.
That is what I think makes this site so special - and it took me awhile to understand that as well.
It is all just advice - some people will take it - some will leave it and some will be undecided. As long as we have the differing opinions coming honestly - it is all worth it IMO.
I have read every post on this topic and am darn glad I did. Coach May, I know you will never ever give a response that you think someone wants to hear. Don't even consider it. I had my son read some of the posts and today in school he was asked what level do you think you will make. Answer was Freshman. Even though in is heart he knows he is better, he also knows his time will come if he works hard with a great attitude and earns it. Thanks for the dose of reality.
Thank you BigToe. I hope your son has a great HS season. And I know with the attitude that you have you will enjoy the season alot!
EH I am not saying that summer ball isn't important because I do believe that it is. HS ball doesn't get much exposure for college coaches because the seasons are at same time BUT I believe without HS ball the skill development would not be the same in most cases.
There are tons of summer teams who have great coaches and do a great job of teaching the game but the same can be said for most HS coaches. They are getting paid to do a great job of teaching the game. Unfortunately there are summer coaches who have no clue, are selfish or just doing it for the wrong reason. Then again you can say the same thing about some HS coaches.
Overall I believe both are important and have their place and if I have not made that point clear enough I apologize. But I took the comment that HS ball is not important that the absolute best way to get into college is through summer ball.
One last comment on FDR's son. Most kids in his position who feel they should be playing higher will usually make fun of the kids they are better than. He can build up a TON of respect points with his team mates and coaches if he just stays supportive and positive when they make mistakes.
He should not tell them what to do or how to do something because A) that is not his job and B) he will come across as a jerk regardless of his intention. Just tell him to always say nice things about his team mates and the chemistry on the team will be awesome.
There are tons of summer teams who have great coaches and do a great job of teaching the game but the same can be said for most HS coaches. They are getting paid to do a great job of teaching the game. Unfortunately there are summer coaches who have no clue, are selfish or just doing it for the wrong reason. Then again you can say the same thing about some HS coaches.
Overall I believe both are important and have their place and if I have not made that point clear enough I apologize. But I took the comment that HS ball is not important that the absolute best way to get into college is through summer ball.
One last comment on FDR's son. Most kids in his position who feel they should be playing higher will usually make fun of the kids they are better than. He can build up a TON of respect points with his team mates and coaches if he just stays supportive and positive when they make mistakes.
He should not tell them what to do or how to do something because A) that is not his job and B) he will come across as a jerk regardless of his intention. Just tell him to always say nice things about his team mates and the chemistry on the team will be awesome.
coach2709, I agree with everything you said.
HS is very important, In fact if you go any farther into baseball it become's your first Fan base.
If that make's since.
If followed kids from differant HS and never met them but i'm a fan.
Old men sitting at the local diner talking about this player are that player.
It's very important to these gentleman, It's there town there player's.
I hope we never lose that, It's a part of Americana.
EH
HS is very important, In fact if you go any farther into baseball it become's your first Fan base.
If that make's since.
If followed kids from differant HS and never met them but i'm a fan.
Old men sitting at the local diner talking about this player are that player.
It's very important to these gentleman, It's there town there player's.
I hope we never lose that, It's a part of Americana.
EH
Went back through and read this entire thread last night. What I really found offensive were some of the negative statements/implications about high school ball/coaching in general. Not surprised at all that some of the coaches took offense. I am also taken back by the implication that somehow playing on the freshman team as a freshman is an insult or a slap in the face. When my son tried out for his freshman team, there were well over 100 kids at the tryout. Many of them were travel or select team players. It was a big deal to make the team let alone play on that team.
Here are a couple of more quotes that make me wonder if there is an an agenda and someone came on here to merely stir the pot:
No idea why it matters what roster he is listed under I am wondering if there were lots of people told in advance how the son was a shoe-in to play up on JV or Varsity as a freshman and now those predictions are hard to live up to.
"Play the game"? Get face time with the right people as a 14/15 year old? I don't even know how to respond to that. I have never heard anyone who thought that way nor would an idea like that ever cross my mind. There have been postings on "helicopter parents" that may be related to these types of feelings
Finally, some have posted here in defense of F&R and somewhat scolding of others who have posted. I believe respect is a two-way street. If one comes on here and basically denigrates high school baseball and presents an "I know better than the coach" attitude in general, then there are going to be some repercussions from that. We could have worked this all out, but the poster has decided to no longer participate. If there were misunderstandings, those could have been resolved. There was no need for lectures on decorum because decorum seems like it was not respected in the first place.
Here are a couple of more quotes that make me wonder if there is an an agenda and someone came on here to merely stir the pot:
quote:My son is most likely *not* locked in to the freshman team. In fact, the varsity coach has asked him to continue to play with BOTH the freshman and JV teams until the season starts. So he is playing one game with freshman and then driving an hour to play with the JV. So I think they understand that he does not belong where his "roster position" shows him. That's actually what bothers me - that they are willing to not simply say, "he's playing at JV level, so put him on the roster".
No idea why it matters what roster he is listed under
quote:But your insight as a coach is appreciated. Your comment about "working up the ladder" is certainly something we don't fear, and actually look forward to. I just have this nagging fear of whether there is actually a level "playing field" based upon what we've seen so far. My wife and I have already discussed asking the pitching coach at the local 4 year D1 school to be his pitching coach in order to "play the game" and get him face time with the right people.
"Play the game"? Get face time with the right people as a 14/15 year old? I don't even know how to respond to that. I have never heard anyone who thought that way nor would an idea like that ever cross my mind. There have been postings on "helicopter parents" that may be related to these types of feelings
Finally, some have posted here in defense of F&R and somewhat scolding of others who have posted. I believe respect is a two-way street. If one comes on here and basically denigrates high school baseball and presents an "I know better than the coach" attitude in general, then there are going to be some repercussions from that. We could have worked this all out, but the poster has decided to no longer participate. If there were misunderstandings, those could have been resolved. There was no need for lectures on decorum because decorum seems like it was not respected in the first place.
quote:There was no need for lectures on decorum because decorum seems like it was not respected in the first place.
Perhaps for the newcomer its takes a little time & experience on this site to know the boundaries of decorum. Phrasing can be key,..and can also take a while to get the gest of.
F&R's comment below:
I came to this board hoping to learn some things (I have), and to be welcomed (TheEH did). My tone may have come across wrong in my original post as I think all parents can get emotional when dealing when issues surrounding their kids. Not having the exerience that many of you do, I did not fully understand some of the issues I needed to know to be a supportive parent. I now have that knowledge and am thankful that many took time to help me become wiser.
They then go on to say:
quote:With that said, I never expected my post to create the amount of personal spiteful comments that it did. What started as a thread about a question of my son playing up deteriorated into a number of replies directly attacking my character and questioning my parenting. With a single post, abeit emotional one, many felt it was appropriate to publicly deride my character as a result.
IMO this new poster is obviously seriously offended.
IMHO,...a
quote:but the poster has decided to no longer participate.
That is exactly what I was afraid of.
I hope they come back.
Lots of good advice, opinions, and information here on the HSBBW.
Gotta love it!
In my mind the toughest adjustment for a parent, not the player, is going from the LL/Youth League stud situation to the HS level---most kids l know the "story" but parents don't
And it happens all over again in the frosh year of college ball----it is tough to climb a ladder if you don't step on the first rung
And it happens all over again in the frosh year of college ball----it is tough to climb a ladder if you don't step on the first rung
Fairness....
Lets see the possitive side of what is happenning to your son. Thanks God that this is happenning in his freshman year that you can have an excuse to understand the situation. Thanks God that so early life is given your son his first lesson. Now, what he needs is the proper guidance. This happens every day, every hour, every minute, and those that can overcome the situation are who get success. Don't allow your son to create a trauma from this situation and tell him that freshman teams are usually for freshman players, and make him to work harder for next year. Still to much ground to cover and you and your son got it be prepare for differents thingh that could happen in the future, like for example no to play his best possition until senior, no to be a regular player until junior or senior, etc. Any one be the case your job is to teach him to continuos his work and do his job that is the only aspect of his life that he can control when final decision is made by others.
Lets see the possitive side of what is happenning to your son. Thanks God that this is happenning in his freshman year that you can have an excuse to understand the situation. Thanks God that so early life is given your son his first lesson. Now, what he needs is the proper guidance. This happens every day, every hour, every minute, and those that can overcome the situation are who get success. Don't allow your son to create a trauma from this situation and tell him that freshman teams are usually for freshman players, and make him to work harder for next year. Still to much ground to cover and you and your son got it be prepare for differents thingh that could happen in the future, like for example no to play his best possition until senior, no to be a regular player until junior or senior, etc. Any one be the case your job is to teach him to continuos his work and do his job that is the only aspect of his life that he can control when final decision is made by others.
quote:I can honestly say that I was alright with him being on JV this year,
Not to be crass but it is really not about what you are alright with. It is about what is alright in the whole picture of the baseball program. Your son is just one of many. Coaches should ask the parent what is alright with them? sorry to say that is not how it works. At least that is not how it should work.
Great post SSM.
Accurate observations, TR.
CD, you may think that I am critical of HS baseball coaches. I'm just calling 'em like I've seen 'em.
Yes, there are some good ones. But there are many bad ones.
And many, but not all, of the latter are those who aren't baseball people. They are football coaches who drew the short straw and were "volunteered" by the AD to coach baseball in the spring. I've seen baseball coaches who never played the game.
And just as with anything else in life, there are just some bad apples.
I have seen baseball coaches with a great love for the game, with good knowledge, who were relatively unaffected by the politics. And I have seen others who didn't know squat about the game, who accepted cash gifts from parents during the season, and who had no rationale for their decisions.
So why should it be required of a poster, for purposes of "decorum", to fall down & worship at the coach's feet? Why should all coaches be free from criticism?
Questioning a particular coach is not denigrating HS ball.
If you want to accuse anyone of denigrating HS ball, take a shot at me. I feel that for many, select ball is much more important to a player's development and preparation for college than HS ball.
Play for a top tier select team, and the politics thing is pretty much a nonissue. They don't care who your daddy is. And there are no parents contributing to booster clubs that can exert influence. You perform, you play.
And the competition among the top tier teams is far tougher than even the best HS playing in a tough district. Common sense tells you that. The top select teams recruit from a huge population base, since there are no boundaries. HS's can't recruit (at least not too much or they get caught) and they normally have attendance boundaries. Those boundaries include much, much smaller population bases compared to select.
Off the soap box...
CD, you have made many great posts, but I just have to disagree with you here.
Accurate observations, TR.
CD, you may think that I am critical of HS baseball coaches. I'm just calling 'em like I've seen 'em.
Yes, there are some good ones. But there are many bad ones.
And many, but not all, of the latter are those who aren't baseball people. They are football coaches who drew the short straw and were "volunteered" by the AD to coach baseball in the spring. I've seen baseball coaches who never played the game.
And just as with anything else in life, there are just some bad apples.
I have seen baseball coaches with a great love for the game, with good knowledge, who were relatively unaffected by the politics. And I have seen others who didn't know squat about the game, who accepted cash gifts from parents during the season, and who had no rationale for their decisions.
So why should it be required of a poster, for purposes of "decorum", to fall down & worship at the coach's feet? Why should all coaches be free from criticism?
Questioning a particular coach is not denigrating HS ball.
If you want to accuse anyone of denigrating HS ball, take a shot at me. I feel that for many, select ball is much more important to a player's development and preparation for college than HS ball.
Play for a top tier select team, and the politics thing is pretty much a nonissue. They don't care who your daddy is. And there are no parents contributing to booster clubs that can exert influence. You perform, you play.
And the competition among the top tier teams is far tougher than even the best HS playing in a tough district. Common sense tells you that. The top select teams recruit from a huge population base, since there are no boundaries. HS's can't recruit (at least not too much or they get caught) and they normally have attendance boundaries. Those boundaries include much, much smaller population bases compared to select.
Off the soap box...
CD, you have made many great posts, but I just have to disagree with you here.
I started to reply about the bad coaches, but that is off topic.
Texan, please do not insult the many great coaches in this state. I am sorry you have had some coach that didn't meet your standards of what you think they should be.
Texan, please do not insult the many great coaches in this state. I am sorry you have had some coach that didn't meet your standards of what you think they should be.
quote:5) Re: "Cause HS is what it is." Ouch. The ultimate reality. I guess once you've been successful at the travel select level, you're not prepared to have to "step down". A tough pill to swallow, but as you indicate, that's simply the way things are.
Texan - you won't convince me nor will I you. What you have observed is a limited subset of the nation so I don't know how that makes you the authority on high school coaching in general. Maybe politics/coaching is bad in your area of Texas but that is about all you can say. The arguments about select ball don't make any sense to me. We are talking about playing on the high school varisty team so what does one have to do with the other?
The quote above by F&R is a denigration on high school baseball in general and from the comments about politics and back stabbing, you can infer what he thinks about high school coaches.
I don't care how many kids are recruited for the elite teams. There are still politics involved. Either someone is recommended for the team, recruited for the team, knows the coaches, or after a tryout the coach assures the parent the kid is who they are looking for. In the travel/select situation, the kid/parent decide if they will participate or not. In the high school situation you are stuck with the coaches you get. That takes a different mindset to go out and earn a spot under those conditions and yes, it is more stressful for the participants. That is how life works. If high school baseball is so inconsequential and select ball is everything, then why even worry about high school baseball in the first place? The original post to this thread has no meaning whatsoever under those conditions so obviously high school baseball must mean something. Maybe the coaches got wind of how "elite" this player and family perceive themselves and decided for the betterment of the team, the freshman team was the best place for this player to start out. A reasonable decision in my view.
This all started out with a parent venting about how his kid was getting scr$wed. "It is what it is" and my son is a very good freshman player and that is probably where he will end up. He also has been told shoot for varsity and settle for JV by people in the know. I now believe that is wrong. Pay your dues, work hard, hustle and have a great attitude ( not a phony one) and your time will come. I have done a complete reversal on this going even as to at one time where I told my son if he doesn't get a fair shake, he could transfer. No way! Not now, not ever. He'll need to earn his spot and then no one can say, I gave money or I helped out with fund raising or whatever it may be. He earned it. By doing things this way he will also get better (bigger, stronger, faster) and that will make him a better player and person.
quote:Originally posted by d8:
I started to reply about the bad coaches, but that is off topic.
Texan, please do not insult the many great coaches in this state. I am sorry you have had some coach that didn't meet your standards of what you think they should be.
Who insulted the many great coaches? I acknowledged that there are good coaches. In no way did I insult the good ones.
Anyone trying to say there are no bad coaches is greatly mistaken. Anyone trying to ignore the bad ones is naive.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Texan - you won't convince me nor will I you.
True. So this is probably a good place to stop.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
What you have observed is a limited subset of the nation so I don't know how that makes you the authority on high school coaching in general. Maybe politics/coaching is bad in your area of Texas but that is about all you can say.
But what YOU have observed is a limited subset of the nation so I don't know how that makes YOU the authority on high school coaching in general. Maybe politics/coaching is good in your area of Ohio but that is about all YOU can say.
Common sense and life experience tell you that there will be good and bad coaches. Nowhere in life is everything perfect. And that is fact.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
The quote above by F&R is a denigration on high school baseball in general and from the comments about politics and back stabbing, you can infer what he thinks about high school coaches.
And inferrences can be incorrect. If I recall properly, he was addressing the coaching at his son's HS. Not coaches everywhere. I could be mistaken on that, but I'm not going back to re-read this entire thread...
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I don't care how many kids are recruited for the elite teams. There are still politics involved. Either someone is recommended for the team, recruited for the team, knows the coaches, or after a tryout the coach assures the parent the kid is who they are looking for. In the travel/select situation, the kid/parent decide if they will participate or not.
So how are recommendations, recruiting, etc. politics? They pick the best players as they have seen them perform in games and the tryout and go. Politics among the top tier teams are miniscule. Have you ever seen what happens when a parent tells a select coach his son should be batting fourth & playing SS?
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
If high school baseball is so inconsequential and select ball is everything, then why even worry about high school baseball in the first place? The original post to this thread has no meaning whatsoever under those conditions so obviously high school baseball must mean something.
For my part, I'm not worried about HS ball. That doesn't mean others aren't, though.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Maybe the coaches got wind of how "elite" this player and family perceive themselves and decided for the betterment of the team, the freshman team was the best place for this player to start out. A reasonable decision in my view.
Pure speculation on your part. And just as likely to be wrong as to be correct.
My son is a freshman who was told he will be trying out for the Varsity team this year. No matter how much he wants to make varsity, or how proud I'd feel if he makes it, the choice isn't his or mine. Its all up to the coaching staff as to whether he is on varsity or jv, and you have to trust their judgement. If he doesnt make it, he'll just have to work harder on jv to show the coaches what he has.As much as I'd like for him to make varsity, I believe the coaches know whats best for my kid, and the program as a whole. I think everyone who has had a kid in sports for a while, has had both good and bad coaches. At the youth level you have some options as to whether to continue with the coach or not. But once you get to high school you dont have any choices with the coach or potential politics involved with the program. A kid just has to work hard and trust that at some point in their career, the coaches will take notice.
