what do you guys think about it? Is a good way to gain speed for baseball?
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I do not think so. Most will tell you yes, but probably can;t tell you why they feel that way.
I will be posting an article that touches on this in the next few days...will post it here when its up
I will be posting an article that touches on this in the next few days...will post it here when its up
Jon has a pretty good idea on what works and does not so curious to see what he says.
Find a track coach who trains spinters - he/she will certainly help point you in the right direction.
Find a track coach who trains spinters - he/she will certainly help point you in the right direction.
ok thanks a lot Jon
Instead of making you guys wait, here is the beginning of my artcle titles "The Greatest Speed Exercise Ever?" - which as I mentioned will be posted this week. Those on my email list will get a notifciation when its up...
"Listen, I’m going to get right to the point…Speed is determined by 3 things:
1. Stride length
2. Stride frequency
3. Ground Force production
Sounds easy, yet a number for factors go into the above.
Here’s a little secret…if you want to improve your speed, you’ll have to do things that aren’t that s e x y…
Chances are, that goes against everything you’ve heard.
After all, you’ve probably been told by a wanna-be coach that “plyometrics” is the key.
Plyo’s are great, but not for teenagers and amateurs. They are great for world-class athletes. Besides, jumping around like an idiot is not true plyometric training.
I’ve witnessed “trainers” put young kids through “plyometrics” and they might as well have been playing hop-scotch and double-dutch. It would be comical, except for the negative long-term effects it’s having on the young athletes."
Basically, what passes for plyometrics in America is not true plyometric training and it's VERY dangerous.
True plyo training is done with reps of 1-3 with long rest between, as each and every rep needs to 'count" with 100% intensity.
Done properly, it's VERY taxing on the Central Nervous System and can only be placed strategically in advanced training programs. And even then, you have to be careful with them.
Typically when you see plyo's being done in America, you see a bunch of kids hopping around, jumping over things - usually on a very hard surface - and for what seems like hundreds and hundreds of repetitions.
This is extremely dangerous to an undeveloped body with connective tissue and bone still developing.
The amount of pounding the body is taking during these sessions is incredible. The joint and spine are basically beaten up for hours at a time.
It amazes me anyone lets this go on.
In addition, very few coaches teach correct landing first. You must learn to land before you can start jumping around. Thisis done through depth jumps from only 6-12 inches off the ground. If an athlete can't land properly, he not be a great athlete and he will do damage to his body every single time he jumps. Think about that for a second.
This is how injuries occur. It's called microtrauma. Tiny tears in the muscle, tendon or ligament. If it is not rebuilt, over time these microtrauma's get greater and greater, leading to an injury.
Then someone rounds first and think he just stepped wrong and thats why his ankle gave out, but in reality it was everything he had been doing for the previous 3 or 4 years.
I will lay out what you have to do for speed in the article.
"Listen, I’m going to get right to the point…Speed is determined by 3 things:
1. Stride length
2. Stride frequency
3. Ground Force production
Sounds easy, yet a number for factors go into the above.
Here’s a little secret…if you want to improve your speed, you’ll have to do things that aren’t that s e x y…
Chances are, that goes against everything you’ve heard.
After all, you’ve probably been told by a wanna-be coach that “plyometrics” is the key.
Plyo’s are great, but not for teenagers and amateurs. They are great for world-class athletes. Besides, jumping around like an idiot is not true plyometric training.
I’ve witnessed “trainers” put young kids through “plyometrics” and they might as well have been playing hop-scotch and double-dutch. It would be comical, except for the negative long-term effects it’s having on the young athletes."
Basically, what passes for plyometrics in America is not true plyometric training and it's VERY dangerous.
True plyo training is done with reps of 1-3 with long rest between, as each and every rep needs to 'count" with 100% intensity.
Done properly, it's VERY taxing on the Central Nervous System and can only be placed strategically in advanced training programs. And even then, you have to be careful with them.
Typically when you see plyo's being done in America, you see a bunch of kids hopping around, jumping over things - usually on a very hard surface - and for what seems like hundreds and hundreds of repetitions.
This is extremely dangerous to an undeveloped body with connective tissue and bone still developing.
The amount of pounding the body is taking during these sessions is incredible. The joint and spine are basically beaten up for hours at a time.
It amazes me anyone lets this go on.
In addition, very few coaches teach correct landing first. You must learn to land before you can start jumping around. Thisis done through depth jumps from only 6-12 inches off the ground. If an athlete can't land properly, he not be a great athlete and he will do damage to his body every single time he jumps. Think about that for a second.
This is how injuries occur. It's called microtrauma. Tiny tears in the muscle, tendon or ligament. If it is not rebuilt, over time these microtrauma's get greater and greater, leading to an injury.
Then someone rounds first and think he just stepped wrong and thats why his ankle gave out, but in reality it was everything he had been doing for the previous 3 or 4 years.
I will lay out what you have to do for speed in the article.
alright thanks for the little preview I will be looking forward to the little speed training article
So apparently the National Strength and Conditioning Association has it all wrong?...
I am a CSCS through NSCA. I like what they do for the most part, but do not agree with everything.
And, they don't advise plyo's the way I described above.
All I can do is advise as I see. It's up to each individual to choose how they train.
And, they don't advise plyo's the way I described above.
All I can do is advise as I see. It's up to each individual to choose how they train.
quote:Plyo’s are great, but not for teenagers and amateurs. They are great for world-class athletes. Besides, jumping around like an idiot is not true plyometric training.
What if your world-class athlete is a teenager?
How do you get to be world-class if you don't train like a world-class athlete or perform the types of movements that world-class athletes do??
In college and in the Chicago Cubs organization, we performed plyos all the time such as those shown below.
In my opinion, if you want to be world-class or if you want to reach the highest levels of baseball, you've got to act the part. You've got to believe you belong there. And then you've got to practice properly and train like a pro to actually get there. I performed plyos as a teen as part of my overall strength program. That's how I got a chance to play college ball. Then I performed plyos in college ball as part of my overall strength program. That's how I got to play pro ball. ...
If you are dealing with a world-class athlete that is a teenager then yes, the rules MAY be different. However, these are few and far between.
I highly doubt the reason you played pro ball was because you did plyo's. I'm sure it had more to do with your talent. And I understand your work ethic was a part of that talent, but I'd say, at best, plyo's improved your abilities a fraction of a percentage point.
I do not agree with the theory that athletes with an under-developed, still-growing body should do all of the same things that a professional, who is mature, has years of training under their belt and, in this case, has a fully-developed Central Nervous System, should do.
It does not make any sense.
Yes, young athletes should do SOME of the same things pro athletes do, but certainly not all. And certainly not the things that can cause a high amount of repetitive stress injuries as pointed out above.
There are other ways to get the younger athlete the effects that plyo's can deliver, without putting their body at risk. For example, by simply adding a stomp to cleans, snatches and push presses then can get a tremendous plyometric effect.
Throw in 1-3 depth jumps between sets and not only do they get plyometric effect, but they learn how to land and absorb force.
I can count on my hand the teenagers I've seen that needed more than this.
A player should grow into a professional training program, not do it from the start.
Another big problem I see if a large number of plyos being done instead of starting proper weight training, core work and strength based on movement.
Can't recall the last time I saw an Olympic lifting class, but I see plyomeric classes all the time.
Differences of training opinions I guess and I'm sticking with mine. But as I mentioned above, its up to the individual to choose which one they want to follow.
I highly doubt the reason you played pro ball was because you did plyo's. I'm sure it had more to do with your talent. And I understand your work ethic was a part of that talent, but I'd say, at best, plyo's improved your abilities a fraction of a percentage point.
I do not agree with the theory that athletes with an under-developed, still-growing body should do all of the same things that a professional, who is mature, has years of training under their belt and, in this case, has a fully-developed Central Nervous System, should do.
It does not make any sense.
Yes, young athletes should do SOME of the same things pro athletes do, but certainly not all. And certainly not the things that can cause a high amount of repetitive stress injuries as pointed out above.
There are other ways to get the younger athlete the effects that plyo's can deliver, without putting their body at risk. For example, by simply adding a stomp to cleans, snatches and push presses then can get a tremendous plyometric effect.
Throw in 1-3 depth jumps between sets and not only do they get plyometric effect, but they learn how to land and absorb force.
I can count on my hand the teenagers I've seen that needed more than this.
A player should grow into a professional training program, not do it from the start.
Another big problem I see if a large number of plyos being done instead of starting proper weight training, core work and strength based on movement.
Can't recall the last time I saw an Olympic lifting class, but I see plyomeric classes all the time.
Differences of training opinions I guess and I'm sticking with mine. But as I mentioned above, its up to the individual to choose which one they want to follow.
quote:
Differences of training opinions I guess
Fair enough
I do really like some of your suggestions on adding a stomp to cleans, snatches and push presses then can get a plyometric effect. Used to do that quite a bit. Great stuff!!
I bet if we got together, we'd only differ in opinions on a smaller number of things. But no fun if we agreed on everything!
Jon, I'm going to take you a little offtopic if I may.. some of what the experts in the strength and conditioning and athletic training fields are instructing for ACL prevention and rehab would fall under the "plyometrics" category. I feel for all athletes, but especially the female athlete, that doing some of this stuff is crucial to add to the workouts.
ACLs are not something that in baseball is a major concern like it is for other sports, but it is still something I think needs to be addressed...
ACLs are not something that in baseball is a major concern like it is for other sports, but it is still something I think needs to be addressed...
Before I can answer, I need to know what is considered "plyometrics" in your inquiry.
As mentioned, most of what is considered "plyo" training in America, is not truly plyo training.
I agree 100% that ACL pre-hab should ALWAYS be addressed.
Furthermore, one large reason why ACL injuries occur is athletes are not taught how to land properly, which obviously I addressed above.
As mentioned, most of what is considered "plyo" training in America, is not truly plyo training.
I agree 100% that ACL pre-hab should ALWAYS be addressed.
Furthermore, one large reason why ACL injuries occur is athletes are not taught how to land properly, which obviously I addressed above.
We have been doing these at my HS,which I personally feel is a better alternative to doing distance running,which my coach thought was the best thing since sliced bread
I asked him one day,"can we more sprints,as an alternative to the 2-3 miles you make us do",and he finally agreed,yet we've been doing stuff like agility latters, sprint/backpedal type things between two cones spaced about 20 yards, side shuffles,etc. Some of It I feel is good,and also as a result of my asking we also do more med ball stuff now. I think some of it is good,but we have done some stuff to where I would agree with Jon Doyle here, has put a lot of pressure on our knees and ankles and backs.
I asked him one day,"can we more sprints,as an alternative to the 2-3 miles you make us do",and he finally agreed,yet we've been doing stuff like agility latters, sprint/backpedal type things between two cones spaced about 20 yards, side shuffles,etc. Some of It I feel is good,and also as a result of my asking we also do more med ball stuff now. I think some of it is good,but we have done some stuff to where I would agree with Jon Doyle here, has put a lot of pressure on our knees and ankles and backs.
Future,
That stuff is ALL great and should be done. That's speed & agility work, not to be confused with plyo's.
Keep at it and I think you should be commended for approaching your coach with training options. After all, while we expect every coach to be up on things, realistically most simply cannot due to demands of their job, family, etc.
I would imagine, once he agreed, he is now open to a variety of things.
That stuff is ALL great and should be done. That's speed & agility work, not to be confused with plyo's.
Keep at it and I think you should be commended for approaching your coach with training options. After all, while we expect every coach to be up on things, realistically most simply cannot due to demands of their job, family, etc.
I would imagine, once he agreed, he is now open to a variety of things.
Jon,
Lets just say my coach and I dont normally see eye to eye(that goes for the rest of my team as well) nor is he exactly Mr.Baseball. I feel like we would be wasting our time doing stuff like distance day after day so I suggested some stuff ha
Lets just say my coach and I dont normally see eye to eye(that goes for the rest of my team as well) nor is he exactly Mr.Baseball. I feel like we would be wasting our time doing stuff like distance day after day so I suggested some stuff ha