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For the most part I think players play until they reach their level of incompetence. Baseball is not a game where you can play little league or remain a freshman on varsity for ten years. One must progress to continue. Most cannot continue to progress and some don't want to. There IS life after baseball.
I had the pleasure of cooking hamburgers and hotdogs in a softball tournament this past weekend --- a “relay for life” fundraising event. The baseball players that I used to watch compete with and against my son are still swinging the bats and enjoying the game. There are a few differences, the ball is fatter and most of the players are too!
Fungo
I had the pleasure of cooking hamburgers and hotdogs in a softball tournament this past weekend --- a “relay for life” fundraising event. The baseball players that I used to watch compete with and against my son are still swinging the bats and enjoying the game. There are a few differences, the ball is fatter and most of the players are too!
Fungo
Most of our problem with baseball stems from lacrosse becoming very popular
While I've got a narrower field of vision on this, since son is still pre HS, I've seen quite a few kids give up baseball already for a variety of reasons. One got plunked one time too many and never could muster the confidence to get in the batters box - he moved to socc** where he's doing real well. A few who had a lot of potential just never learned enough to be competetive and gave up (I'd chalk that up to poor coaching). One that stands out was a kid (pretty good ballplayer) whose grandfather played AAA ball with Pete Rose. Grandfather was critical of the kid for everything, never once said 'good job', and pretty much expected the same level of intensity out of his young grandson as exhibited by pro ballplayers. The kid finally just gave up because he got tired of the constant criticism.
I think some kids just get tired of playing. They want other things in their lives.
My son had some HS teammates that could have gone on to play college ball but chose not to do so. While my son couldn't understand giving up the game, they could. They simply wanted to be just a college student and enjoy all that life had to offer them now outside of practices and games year round.
My son had some HS teammates that could have gone on to play college ball but chose not to do so. While my son couldn't understand giving up the game, they could. They simply wanted to be just a college student and enjoy all that life had to offer them now outside of practices and games year round.
The primary reasons are have always seem aged related to me.
5,6,7 year olds often quit out of fear. i.e. the ball hurts.
8,9,10 year olds quit because striking out in public is embarassing.
11,12,13 quit because the begin to understand they wont be good enough.
by HS quitting becomes the coaches, not the players decision.
for older players with the skill to continue but don't, its just not important (i.e. fun) enough anymore.
5,6,7 year olds often quit out of fear. i.e. the ball hurts.
8,9,10 year olds quit because striking out in public is embarassing.
11,12,13 quit because the begin to understand they wont be good enough.
by HS quitting becomes the coaches, not the players decision.
for older players with the skill to continue but don't, its just not important (i.e. fun) enough anymore.
Baseball is suppose to be FUN.
If at anytime a player is not having FUN, it's hard to keep
playing the game.
There's any Number of reason's WHY a player is not having FUN.
To much pressure from Coaches, Parent's, Grandparent's.
The Competition get's to tough.
Not Playing there favorite Position.
They get a car.
they discover Girl's.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't get in the way of baseball. LOL
If at anytime a player is not having FUN, it's hard to keep
playing the game.
There's any Number of reason's WHY a player is not having FUN.
To much pressure from Coaches, Parent's, Grandparent's.
The Competition get's to tough.
Not Playing there favorite Position.
They get a car.
they discover Girl's.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't get in the way of baseball. LOL
Good Day Folks,
Just a few issues to consider in this discussion.
1. The the single biggest drop off is from the Little League level to the Babe Ruth level of play. In my town, we had six LL teams with 12 players each. When They went up to Babe Ruth, they fielded 5 teams, but we included players from one of the neighboring towns. At that level, often games were forfeited due to a lack of players showing up.
Many young players give up the game when they hit the 90' foot diamond. ( I am from New England, and for the most part the kids transisition directly from the 60' to the 90' diamond here). Its very difficult for some kids who were mildly successful at LL to handle the fact that at 13 it's hard for them to get the ball into the outfield.
The top players will in general handle the transistion better. The players who get the opportunity to play 12 yr old AAU or Pony League is their town has it, have an easier time transisitioning because they will get the chance to play on the intermediate 70' diamond.
2. Once the kids hit 15 and enter HS, they are once again competeing with each other for uniforms. After the 15 yr in Babe Ruth, Most HS programs have to perform cuts at some point. Some lsses in participation can be chalked up to kids coming to the conclusion (right or wrong) that they will not play much if at all, so they just do not bother to continue.
By the time they are 16, there really is no place teenagers can go to simply play the game. Everything available to them (at least here) is highly competetive (HS, Senior Babe Ruth, Legion, AAU).
I agree with bagsbaseball that lacrosse has taken big bite out baseball participation. In just my little neck of the woods, I know of a great number of former LL and Babe Ruth All-star players who now play lacrosse instead.
During HS tryouts this year, I contacted a friend whose son was a teammate of my son during their 13U AAU season. At their school, He told me they only had 26 young men tryout for baseball. The offical enrollment for the school is 895! He told me the biggest loss was to lacrosse. The kids moving over to that sport felt they had a greater chance of actually playing.
Just My 2c worth on this one based on what I see here.
Just a few issues to consider in this discussion.
1. The the single biggest drop off is from the Little League level to the Babe Ruth level of play. In my town, we had six LL teams with 12 players each. When They went up to Babe Ruth, they fielded 5 teams, but we included players from one of the neighboring towns. At that level, often games were forfeited due to a lack of players showing up.
Many young players give up the game when they hit the 90' foot diamond. ( I am from New England, and for the most part the kids transisition directly from the 60' to the 90' diamond here). Its very difficult for some kids who were mildly successful at LL to handle the fact that at 13 it's hard for them to get the ball into the outfield.
The top players will in general handle the transistion better. The players who get the opportunity to play 12 yr old AAU or Pony League is their town has it, have an easier time transisitioning because they will get the chance to play on the intermediate 70' diamond.
2. Once the kids hit 15 and enter HS, they are once again competeing with each other for uniforms. After the 15 yr in Babe Ruth, Most HS programs have to perform cuts at some point. Some lsses in participation can be chalked up to kids coming to the conclusion (right or wrong) that they will not play much if at all, so they just do not bother to continue.
By the time they are 16, there really is no place teenagers can go to simply play the game. Everything available to them (at least here) is highly competetive (HS, Senior Babe Ruth, Legion, AAU).
I agree with bagsbaseball that lacrosse has taken big bite out baseball participation. In just my little neck of the woods, I know of a great number of former LL and Babe Ruth All-star players who now play lacrosse instead.
During HS tryouts this year, I contacted a friend whose son was a teammate of my son during their 13U AAU season. At their school, He told me they only had 26 young men tryout for baseball. The offical enrollment for the school is 895! He told me the biggest loss was to lacrosse. The kids moving over to that sport felt they had a greater chance of actually playing.
Just My 2c worth on this one based on what I see here.
That's IT????
That L word sport must go by way of the S word sport.
It must be Band from this site forever. LOL
That L word sport must go by way of the S word sport.
It must be Band from this site forever. LOL
In Fact it's just the S sport With a Stick.
EH,
I don't like it any more than you do, but go take a look at the practice fields at any school in your area. Count up the number of kids with "that stick", you wont like the results any more than I did
I don't like it any more than you do, but go take a look at the practice fields at any school in your area. Count up the number of kids with "that stick", you wont like the results any more than I did
The fields are hardly used. We have several new fields and the kids are not on them. Where is the sandlot players. I guess waiting for mom or dad to organize a game for them. Kids quit because its eaiser to to that. How many would play on there own if mom or dad didnt lead them by the nose?
I've noticed the same thing about the drop off from 10 - 12 ball to 13 - 14 ball.
When you move to the full 90' bases the game gets bigger and the kids who played ball because their parents made them didn't have to play any more.
Where I have lived 14 is high school age. Players have to maintain good grades in school in order to have the luxury of playing organized ball. They also have to maintain good attitudes in spite of the hormonal changes going on in their bodies.
There is less stigma in not making the varsity team as a freshman or sophmore than as a junior or senior.Playing 13 - 14 is more socially acceptable amongst teenagers. Playing 15 - 16 usually means that you didn't make varsity and are playing with the other 'rejects'. In reality, there are only so many spots on the varsity for whatever number of players trying out.
Kids that don't make the team have the option of giving it up or playing 15 - 16 ball.
I don't think that there is enough knowledge or publicity for the many baseball programs for 15 - 16 year olds in most parts of the country.
Most parents and children are not aware of such events as the Junior Olympics or the PONY World Series just to name a couple.
I think more kids would continue to play in spite of not making their school's varsity team.
When you move to the full 90' bases the game gets bigger and the kids who played ball because their parents made them didn't have to play any more.
Where I have lived 14 is high school age. Players have to maintain good grades in school in order to have the luxury of playing organized ball. They also have to maintain good attitudes in spite of the hormonal changes going on in their bodies.
There is less stigma in not making the varsity team as a freshman or sophmore than as a junior or senior.Playing 13 - 14 is more socially acceptable amongst teenagers. Playing 15 - 16 usually means that you didn't make varsity and are playing with the other 'rejects'. In reality, there are only so many spots on the varsity for whatever number of players trying out.
Kids that don't make the team have the option of giving it up or playing 15 - 16 ball.
I don't think that there is enough knowledge or publicity for the many baseball programs for 15 - 16 year olds in most parts of the country.
Most parents and children are not aware of such events as the Junior Olympics or the PONY World Series just to name a couple.
I think more kids would continue to play in spite of not making their school's varsity team.
You have to accept the fact that some kids will quit the sport because they have more passion for another sport. 
Then you have the kids that quit for other reasons. Baseball when played on 60' bases is fun for all kids. When they move up to the "big" diamond their baseball shortcomings become glaring faults. In our LL this was the time that we lost the biggest group of kids. At that time of their lives self esteem is very fragile and in their minds it was easier to make up an excuse not to play rather than letting down a buddy and/or team where the consequences can be very personal.
We got this data by yearly trying to personally survey as many parents and kids that left our LL program as possible. We told them that this was not a bid to try to get them back but rather it was a means to find ways to have fewer leave in the future.
In the end there were things that the League could do internally but the one thing that could have made a big difference was available but had too many obstacals. That solution was a 13 yr old league that used the 70' bases and 50' mound. A step program to the big diamond. I cannot remember the name of that League for the life of me but besides the fact you needed to have a new field built that would not be used by a lot of teams, it was not common enough or accepted State wide to succeed.
When my son was 12 there was enough kids to have almost (7) 12 year old teams, when he turned 13 and moved to the big diamond there was enough kids for 4 teams. Personally I did not like the possible solution as my son was ready for the big diamond, however, we lost many kids because they were not ready.
Then you have the kids that quit for other reasons. Baseball when played on 60' bases is fun for all kids. When they move up to the "big" diamond their baseball shortcomings become glaring faults. In our LL this was the time that we lost the biggest group of kids. At that time of their lives self esteem is very fragile and in their minds it was easier to make up an excuse not to play rather than letting down a buddy and/or team where the consequences can be very personal.
We got this data by yearly trying to personally survey as many parents and kids that left our LL program as possible. We told them that this was not a bid to try to get them back but rather it was a means to find ways to have fewer leave in the future.
In the end there were things that the League could do internally but the one thing that could have made a big difference was available but had too many obstacals. That solution was a 13 yr old league that used the 70' bases and 50' mound. A step program to the big diamond. I cannot remember the name of that League for the life of me but besides the fact you needed to have a new field built that would not be used by a lot of teams, it was not common enough or accepted State wide to succeed.
When my son was 12 there was enough kids to have almost (7) 12 year old teams, when he turned 13 and moved to the big diamond there was enough kids for 4 teams. Personally I did not like the possible solution as my son was ready for the big diamond, however, we lost many kids because they were not ready.
GIRLS!!!!
RZ1,
I agree completely after watching my son and his 12U AAU teammates play on the 70' diamond.
Most of those kids are still playing and all said moving to the 90' diamond was not so hard after playing on the 70'.
The is nothing more demoralizing to a young 13 yr old player than getting thrown out at 1st base when they hit a ball into the outfield, but it happens a lot when they step up to that big diamond.
I agree completely after watching my son and his 12U AAU teammates play on the 70' diamond.
Most of those kids are still playing and all said moving to the 90' diamond was not so hard after playing on the 70'.
The is nothing more demoralizing to a young 13 yr old player than getting thrown out at 1st base when they hit a ball into the outfield, but it happens a lot when they step up to that big diamond.
My older son is in college and hopes to never quit baseball - just keep playing at whatever level he can, including the Graybeard League I suppose! His dad still plays hockey every winter, and he does have the partially gray beard!
My younger one played 2 years of HS baseball, then gave it up in Junior year because it conflicted with lessons for his music auditions for college - so I guess his #2 interest, sports, gave way to his #1 passion, music.
My younger one played 2 years of HS baseball, then gave it up in Junior year because it conflicted with lessons for his music auditions for college - so I guess his #2 interest, sports, gave way to his #1 passion, music.
I think the transition from 60' to 90' is a huge obstacle to lots of kids. In my town, the 13 and 14's (except for the most talented) play on an 80'/55' field. It is a very good intermediate step.
I do think that Little League needs to wake up to the new reality of the size and maturity of 12 year olds. The 60'/46' field is too small. The rules are too restrictive.
Little League should have a 70'/50' division for the most talented and mature kids. And they should allow leading off.
The 46' mound makes for a horrible experience for a lot of the less developed kids, because it becomes a game of dominating pitchers. How would you feel if you knew you were going to strike out nine times out of ten because you weren't quite mature and strong enough yet to get the bat around on a 90 mph equivalent pitch?
Hardly a surprise a lot of kids drop out after LL.
Litle League needs to join the 21st century, IMO. But it seems they gear the entire thing to ESPN World Series broadcast where people want to see manchild strike out 18 batters with his 73 mph heat.
That is why lots of communities are moving away from LL affiliation and going Cal Ripken or other structures that have more sensible field dimensions and rules.
I do think that Little League needs to wake up to the new reality of the size and maturity of 12 year olds. The 60'/46' field is too small. The rules are too restrictive.
Little League should have a 70'/50' division for the most talented and mature kids. And they should allow leading off.
The 46' mound makes for a horrible experience for a lot of the less developed kids, because it becomes a game of dominating pitchers. How would you feel if you knew you were going to strike out nine times out of ten because you weren't quite mature and strong enough yet to get the bat around on a 90 mph equivalent pitch?
Hardly a surprise a lot of kids drop out after LL.
Litle League needs to join the 21st century, IMO. But it seems they gear the entire thing to ESPN World Series broadcast where people want to see manchild strike out 18 batters with his 73 mph heat.
That is why lots of communities are moving away from LL affiliation and going Cal Ripken or other structures that have more sensible field dimensions and rules.
Personally I do not like the "intermediate steps"--I think that is part of what is wrong with our country today--too many "intermediate" steps for the kids-- grab the bull by the horns and hang on !!!
Once kids leave LL they are no longer assured of playing time even if they make the team so the lesser players say "ciao baby" and go on to other things---
Once kids leave LL they are no longer assured of playing time even if they make the team so the lesser players say "ciao baby" and go on to other things---
Rob K makes some good points about Little League. In our area we have Dizzie Dean and PONY, both of which use 60, 70, and 80 ft. fields. There's not much I like about the Little League rules, the other organizations do a much better job of transitioning kids to 90 ft. fields while keeping games competetive and fun.
Personally I do not like the "intermediate steps"--I think that is part of what is wrong with our country today......Once kids leave LL they are no longer assured of playing time even if they make the team so the lesser players say "ciao baby" and go on to other things---
Wow, what a great way to promote socc** and lacrosse!
Only the kids who happen to be studs at 11 or 12 will stick around, the late bloomers won't have a chance.
Personally I do not like the "intermediate steps"--I think that is part of what is wrong with our country today......Once kids leave LL they are no longer assured of playing time even if they make the team so the lesser players say "ciao baby" and go on to other things---
Wow, what a great way to promote socc** and lacrosse!
Only the kids who happen to be studs at 11 or 12 will stick around, the late bloomers won't have a chance.
style
It has nothing to do with any other sports-- we are coddling the youth in our country and it needs to stop--our country has become TOO SOFT!!--- go from the LL field to the regulation field and I think you will see that the kids who want it will make it and not need a life jacket to do so
It has nothing to do with any other sports-- we are coddling the youth in our country and it needs to stop--our country has become TOO SOFT!!--- go from the LL field to the regulation field and I think you will see that the kids who want it will make it and not need a life jacket to do so
TR,
LOL...cute, and you wonder why kids quit?
Im am not one to believe in coddling kids at all, but there is a difference between coddling and providing an intelligent transition.
Go watch your local LL games and observe the pitchers...NOT the superstars, but the middle level kids.
Then observe them in the 13 yr old year when they step back 14' to pitch. Perhaps that might convince you that throwing from 50' or 54' for that 13 yr old year is not a bad thing to keep more kids involved.
Intermediate steps are how we learn. One does not throw a kid into geometry or algebra before learning all the intermediate math required. Each year is a necessary progression.
The same is true in athletics. One doesn't expect the majority of 5 & 6 yr olds to be able to hit a pitched baseball with correct mechanics, these skills are learned in the years from tee ball up to and through LL. Most programs dont put the 5 & 6 yr olds on a 60' foot diamond either.
It would be nice if all communities had fields to allow for this progresssion, but the simple fact of cost and recreational land availablity make it very difficult for most towns. Most of the wonderful facilities for kids that I have seen in Northern New England were donated by well-off people dedicated to seeing kids play or built by people building baseball programs.
If you are fortunate enough to live somewhere (my understanding is the 80' diamond is very popular down south) where there are transistionary levels to the 90' diamond, im guessing your player drop-out rate is less than it is here.
LOL...cute, and you wonder why kids quit?
Im am not one to believe in coddling kids at all, but there is a difference between coddling and providing an intelligent transition.
Go watch your local LL games and observe the pitchers...NOT the superstars, but the middle level kids.
Then observe them in the 13 yr old year when they step back 14' to pitch. Perhaps that might convince you that throwing from 50' or 54' for that 13 yr old year is not a bad thing to keep more kids involved.
Intermediate steps are how we learn. One does not throw a kid into geometry or algebra before learning all the intermediate math required. Each year is a necessary progression.
The same is true in athletics. One doesn't expect the majority of 5 & 6 yr olds to be able to hit a pitched baseball with correct mechanics, these skills are learned in the years from tee ball up to and through LL. Most programs dont put the 5 & 6 yr olds on a 60' foot diamond either.
It would be nice if all communities had fields to allow for this progresssion, but the simple fact of cost and recreational land availablity make it very difficult for most towns. Most of the wonderful facilities for kids that I have seen in Northern New England were donated by well-off people dedicated to seeing kids play or built by people building baseball programs.
If you are fortunate enough to live somewhere (my understanding is the 80' diamond is very popular down south) where there are transistionary levels to the 90' diamond, im guessing your player drop-out rate is less than it is here.
TR,
In general, I AGREE, we do coddle kids to much in our society today. Especially in the schools, kids are allowed to advance when they have not reached in the bare minimum of skills required ot go to the next grade.
I just dont beleive that having a transitional year between LL and the big diamond is the samething
In general, I AGREE, we do coddle kids to much in our society today. Especially in the schools, kids are allowed to advance when they have not reached in the bare minimum of skills required ot go to the next grade.
I just dont beleive that having a transitional year between LL and the big diamond is the samething
What is Lacrosse?
I voted for "Other". The game will let you know when it is time to quit.
I voted for "Other". The game will let you know when it is time to quit.
Sandy Koufax League, Just below Mickey Mantle.
At 13Yr's of age play a 54' mound 80' bases.
which is ideal for the transition from major's LL 46', 60'.
I noticed a lot of the kid's that start to play select ball about this time. And other Player's that don't make the select team with there buddy's Quit rather than play with maybe lessor talented player's on the Local Team's.
Which is a shame, Cause they could really hone there Skill's
Playing all the Time, and being the Stud on there Local Team.
Which will Boost there Confidence.
Real Baseball start's when the Player's reach about 15/16 yrs. of age.
That's when thing's that they been taught over the year's start to kick in.
Body's change, and those Player's that were the best at 12yr's old no longer play are don't have the Academic's to Play. JMHO
the EH
At 13Yr's of age play a 54' mound 80' bases.
which is ideal for the transition from major's LL 46', 60'.
I noticed a lot of the kid's that start to play select ball about this time. And other Player's that don't make the select team with there buddy's Quit rather than play with maybe lessor talented player's on the Local Team's.
Which is a shame, Cause they could really hone there Skill's
Playing all the Time, and being the Stud on there Local Team.
Which will Boost there Confidence.
Real Baseball start's when the Player's reach about 15/16 yrs. of age.
That's when thing's that they been taught over the year's start to kick in.
Body's change, and those Player's that were the best at 12yr's old no longer play are don't have the Academic's to Play. JMHO
the EH
TRHit - Right on!
Put the T-Ball players on 90'foot bases. THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY!
Put the T-Ball players on 90'foot bases. THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY!
The Truth Hurts!
90 foot base paths and the big field is the equalizer. No longer can a kid hide behind daddy when he cannot hit it to the outfield. Gone are the days of having little johnny play SS when he cannot make a long accurate throw in the hole. For the most part the Big Field exposes the daddy ball kids and kids that just got by in Little League. All of those doubles and triples are routine singles and if they hit it to RF it is an automatic out!
At 13/14 years old these kids have to make a sounde decision if baseball really for them. Don't get me wrong, many kids do work hard in the off season and do well but many give it up and play Lacrosse( which is big here in cali) or basketball/football.
90 foot base paths and the big field is the equalizer. No longer can a kid hide behind daddy when he cannot hit it to the outfield. Gone are the days of having little johnny play SS when he cannot make a long accurate throw in the hole. For the most part the Big Field exposes the daddy ball kids and kids that just got by in Little League. All of those doubles and triples are routine singles and if they hit it to RF it is an automatic out!
At 13/14 years old these kids have to make a sounde decision if baseball really for them. Don't get me wrong, many kids do work hard in the off season and do well but many give it up and play Lacrosse( which is big here in cali) or basketball/football.
quote:The Truth Hurts!
90 foot base paths and the big field is the equalizer. No longer can a kid hide behind daddy when he cannot hit it to the outfield.
Baseballbum I think with that attitude soocccer will take over baseball as a national pastime. Maybe we should take all those kids who are not yet developed enough to "keep up" on the big field and send them to knitting class.
I'm speechless.........almost.IMO "daddy ball" always referred to the coaches kid who's dad batted him first and played him at SS regardless of his abilities. I have never heard it refered to as the daddy protecting his underdeveloped son. Those fathers of underdeveloped kids are usually the ones who are concerned about their kids from being put in the spotlight and only hope and dream that the kid will catch up to the others down the road.
Think kids give up baseball for many different reasons, but mostly for 2 reasons.... their skills don't keep up with their teammates, and the other.... as Lafmom said...they just get tired of the routine and want to do other things.
Note: My son has said several times....if he hadn't found baseball first...he would have been a lacrosse player....
Note: My son has said several times....if he hadn't found baseball first...he would have been a lacrosse player....
This is my observation from personal experience and maybe I am way off base but I don't think so.
Many young males today (over 50%) don't grow up with a male figure living in their house. The result is that they don't have a male adult to throw BP to them or play catch with, when they are trying to gain the necessary baseball skills at a young age.
Very few youth league coaches know how to run a practice. The good coaches have moved to the travel/select leagues. How many times have you driven by a field and seen 11 kids standing in the outfield and 1 kid hitting BP? For some reason the coaches don't/want break the players into small groups (3 or 4) and work on fundamentals.
It seems that most kids are like my kids are in that they need to work hard at the game. My kids were taking 50-100 good cuts each day at a young age but I had to help them. To be successful the kids need to not only work hard but work smart and many times dad's & mom's don't know how to work at baseball or they simply don't have the time. Parents are spending more hours at work today than ever before.
Many young males today (over 50%) don't grow up with a male figure living in their house. The result is that they don't have a male adult to throw BP to them or play catch with, when they are trying to gain the necessary baseball skills at a young age.
Very few youth league coaches know how to run a practice. The good coaches have moved to the travel/select leagues. How many times have you driven by a field and seen 11 kids standing in the outfield and 1 kid hitting BP? For some reason the coaches don't/want break the players into small groups (3 or 4) and work on fundamentals.
It seems that most kids are like my kids are in that they need to work hard at the game. My kids were taking 50-100 good cuts each day at a young age but I had to help them. To be successful the kids need to not only work hard but work smart and many times dad's & mom's don't know how to work at baseball or they simply don't have the time. Parents are spending more hours at work today than ever before.
cbg, very true.
I think what is also lost when kids quit baseball is that the family goes with them. I'm not saying that every Father, Mother, or older brother that leaves the game could be the next "great coach" but with the loss of players you do thin out the pool of volunteers that may be potentially adding value to the process.
Without getting real deep I've always felt there is a relationship between baseball and boys growing up to be young men, or an adult being a mentor to other youth. When you see that there is an age where kids break away from baseball you try to find out why and then look for solutions to change the trend. It's called evolving. I along with many others subscribe to TR's thoughts that our youth is getting soft. That softness is not because of 90' baseball, it is because of society/morality issues outside of baseball. As fans and promoters of baseball it should be our obligation to society to use our passion for the game as a tool to help re-instill a comptitive nature through the game of baseball. It is a no-lose train of thought. However, that cannot be done effectivily when the numbers continue to dwindle. The whole process evolves around maximizing the number of participants. That atitude will have a compounding affect over time, but you need the numbers. Now find a solution, maybe it's by not using a grown mans field dimensions as a way to filter 13 yr old kids away from the game.
Just because they can't throw it from deep in the hole at 13 years old we should not tell them and their parents that even though the "truth hurts", they should accept their fate that that they are not worthy enough to continue playing the game.
I think what is also lost when kids quit baseball is that the family goes with them. I'm not saying that every Father, Mother, or older brother that leaves the game could be the next "great coach" but with the loss of players you do thin out the pool of volunteers that may be potentially adding value to the process.
Without getting real deep I've always felt there is a relationship between baseball and boys growing up to be young men, or an adult being a mentor to other youth. When you see that there is an age where kids break away from baseball you try to find out why and then look for solutions to change the trend. It's called evolving. I along with many others subscribe to TR's thoughts that our youth is getting soft. That softness is not because of 90' baseball, it is because of society/morality issues outside of baseball. As fans and promoters of baseball it should be our obligation to society to use our passion for the game as a tool to help re-instill a comptitive nature through the game of baseball. It is a no-lose train of thought. However, that cannot be done effectivily when the numbers continue to dwindle. The whole process evolves around maximizing the number of participants. That atitude will have a compounding affect over time, but you need the numbers. Now find a solution, maybe it's by not using a grown mans field dimensions as a way to filter 13 yr old kids away from the game.
Just because they can't throw it from deep in the hole at 13 years old we should not tell them and their parents that even though the "truth hurts", they should accept their fate that that they are not worthy enough to continue playing the game.
quote:Originally posted by Pirate Fan:
TRHit - Right on!
Put the T-Ball players on 90'foot bases. THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY!
That and they have to swing 33" -3 bat too.
Most kids get tired of the failure. Going hitless for 20 ABs isn't exactly fun.
Beezer;
Don't forgot to add metal spikes.
Don't forgot to add metal spikes.
I find it interesting that we've had all this discussion so far, and yet I haven't seen anyone use the term "burnout". It has always been my observation that some parents use alleged "burnout" as an excuse when there is really another explanation.
I have never seen a kid who really loved the game quit because he was burned out. But while it's a foreign thought to me, some folks out there don't enjoy the game as much as we do. Some find girls, cars, other sports, rock & roll bands, theater productions ... there are more activities choices available to kids today than ever before and it's only natural that kids will gravitate to the ones that suit them better and that they enjoy more.
And kids are honest with themselves. While their parents blame the coaches, "burnout", or whatever, the kids are choosing to move on to other activities because they can see when they are simply not as good as the guys they're playing behind.
What's unfortunate is that our youth organizations simply peter out during the teen years, and the only options available to kids are the increasingly competitive travel teams and the school teams. This leaves the kid who may accept that he ain't all that great, but who just wants to play for fun, with precious few options.
If there were one thing we could do, it would be to offer a well organized recreational program for kids in that 14-17 age group. At least around here, there simply isn't one that's worth anything.
I have never seen a kid who really loved the game quit because he was burned out. But while it's a foreign thought to me, some folks out there don't enjoy the game as much as we do. Some find girls, cars, other sports, rock & roll bands, theater productions ... there are more activities choices available to kids today than ever before and it's only natural that kids will gravitate to the ones that suit them better and that they enjoy more.
And kids are honest with themselves. While their parents blame the coaches, "burnout", or whatever, the kids are choosing to move on to other activities because they can see when they are simply not as good as the guys they're playing behind.
What's unfortunate is that our youth organizations simply peter out during the teen years, and the only options available to kids are the increasingly competitive travel teams and the school teams. This leaves the kid who may accept that he ain't all that great, but who just wants to play for fun, with precious few options.
If there were one thing we could do, it would be to offer a well organized recreational program for kids in that 14-17 age group. At least around here, there simply isn't one that's worth anything.
I think the very first response in this thread said it best. What Fungo describes is the basic theory of the Peter Principle and it does seem to relate very well to baseball. I happen to work with some people that fit into this theory and know some baseball coaches that wear it well too.quote:For the most part I think players play until they reach their level of incompetence. Baseball is not a game where you can play little league or remain a freshman on varsity for ten years. One must progress to continue. Most cannot continue to progress and some don't want to. There IS life after baseball.
I had the pleasure of cooking hamburgers and hotdogs in a softball tournament this past weekend --- a “relay for life” fundraising event. The baseball players that I used to watch compete with and against my son are still swinging the bats and enjoying the game. There are a few differences, the ball is fatter and most of the players are too!
Fungo
Peter Principle - In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence.
If I was a kid and I was watching the boo-ing and downright R/B shouts that Barry Bonds puts up with just to play this game I would be wondering whether baseball is worth the bother.
Adults of course justify their behavior as a God given right to be borish and downright meanspirited...but is that the kind of character examples that we should be teaching the kids as they watch that kind of adult behavior?
Even here the boards are filled with hate speech that has no place in baseball, either here or on the field, nor at the ballpark.
It's time for adults to clean up their act!!
Adults of course justify their behavior as a God given right to be borish and downright meanspirited...but is that the kind of character examples that we should be teaching the kids as they watch that kind of adult behavior?
Even here the boards are filled with hate speech that has no place in baseball, either here or on the field, nor at the ballpark.
It's time for adults to clean up their act!!
Kids quit because it is easy to quit. It used to be if you quit it was sort of like a negative thing. I talked to a boy the other day at school and asked how baseball is going. He said he quit. I said why. the reason is somebody took his starting position. i told him life is full of dissappointments but that is not the way to handle it. His reponse I am not a bench player. I told him now he was not a player at all.
RR, JEEZ Take it easy on us Adult's will ya? LOL
I've often thought that a league for Boy's Fastpitch softball would be great for the ages of 13 to 18.
WHY? That's when most of the player's that don't quite have the talent to make the transition to 90' bases. Maybe they have a few extra Pound's on them, are maybe not as fast as other player's of the same age.
So maybe those type player's could hone skill's needed to maybe jump back into baseball in HS and contribute.
Fastpitch is a Man's sport, no doubt about it.
Play the hot corner 35' from home plate, and a 230# batter is ready to take your head off. That's Scary. the EH
I've often thought that a league for Boy's Fastpitch softball would be great for the ages of 13 to 18.
WHY? That's when most of the player's that don't quite have the talent to make the transition to 90' bases. Maybe they have a few extra Pound's on them, are maybe not as fast as other player's of the same age.
So maybe those type player's could hone skill's needed to maybe jump back into baseball in HS and contribute.
Fastpitch is a Man's sport, no doubt about it.
Play the hot corner 35' from home plate, and a 230# batter is ready to take your head off. That's Scary. the EH
You know RR.....don't want to appear as if I'm picking at ya....but....are you really using Barry Bonds as an example of a victim of poor adult behavior?
Barry is experiencing consequences for actions.....pure and simple.....or in your language.....his prism is reflecting his acts......and....the sewerage is backing up......
Barry is experiencing consequences for actions.....pure and simple.....or in your language.....his prism is reflecting his acts......and....the sewerage is backing up......