Post Pitching Routine?

The driveline trampoline for recovery. Bands.  Marc Pro stem machine.  During playoffs when pitch counts were higher and every five days, we also went to a deep tissue guy between outings.

Son is LHP at P5.  He has never iced.  He does throwing workout after he throws including weighted balls and bands similar to warming up, runs that night and next day.  I was told by Chicago White Sox trainer years ago that you either ice or run/workout to get blood flowing.  Once you ice, you ice as long as you play the game.

Pool has finally warmed up at the house enough. My 2022 will swim laps 10-15)the evening after he throws. The next morning he will do about 20 after breakfast

So I would want to know a few things. Has this happened before and if so, how long did it take to resolve? How long ago has your season started? What throwing did he do to get ready for the outfield and pitching (talking about distance, number of throws, intensity of the throws both on and off the mound). Has that changed recently? Does he workout, if so, has anything changed? How does he feel overall (more tired, normal, great)? Any additional stress or sleep changes or anything else you or he can think of?

Some good advice here and some not so good. Never use heat after throwing- only before. Use ice only after you throw and it’s best for 20 min on & 20 min off. Repeat 2 or 3 times. Next day what you want is to move the lactic acid buildup out of the arm and shoulder. General blood flow is what does that. Running, bands, weighted ball work are all good for recovery the day after throwing. This can be accelerated with the use of horse liniment. It’s not FDA approved for human use so some are squeamish about it. I’m not. I used it for years when I played. I don’t believe in long toss the day after unless it was a short outing. Otherwise 2 days after is more appropriate. When doing long toss it’s important to keep a reasonable distance - like 120’. Anytime you change your arm slot to make the ball carry farther you are practicing something that you won’t duplicate on the mound - which is counterproductive. Swimming is great anytime and is something that should be integrated into a recovery routine if possible.

@adbono posted:

Some good advice here and some not so good. Never use heat after throwing- only before. Use ice only after you throw and it’s best for 20 min on & 20 min off. Repeat 2 or 3 times. Next day what you want is to move the lactic acid buildup out of the arm and shoulder. General blood flow is what does that. Running, bands, weighted ball work are all good for recovery the day after throwing. This can be accelerated with the use of horse liniment. It’s not FDA approved for human use so some are squeamish about it. I’m not. I used it for years when I played. I don’t believe in long toss the day after unless it was a short outing. Otherwise 2 days after is more appropriate. When doing long toss it’s important to keep a reasonable distance - like 120’. Anytime you change your arm slot to make the ball carry farther you are practicing something that you won’t duplicate on the mound - which is counterproductive. Swimming is great anytime and is something that should be integrated into a recovery routine if possible.

I'm sure you have good intentions, but I highly suggest critically reflecting on what you think you may know about the topic.

When you say things like wanting to move "Lactic acid build up" out of the arm and shoulder you're displaying a gross lack of understanding. Attached are some research if you'd like to update your understanding on the topic (lactic acid isn't bad, at all, period.):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29617642/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29021365/

https://journals.physiology.or...2/ajpregu.00117.2005

https://link.springer.com/arti...7256-200636040-00001

http://namedprogram.com/lactic...he-lactic-acid-myth/

https://twitter.com/SandCResea.../1168769365245927424

@XFactor this has been going on for years somewhat.  It's not new.  There is no pain or anything more than mild discomfort when stretching, just a lack of zip to the ball and what seems like a slower recovery time than his peers. Maybe my view is skewed, the other two way player is a catcher and he seems to be ready to throw a million pitches every day...Maybe it's not normal to throw 95 pitches Tuesday and be ready to play OF Wednesday. He said he didn't think he could make a solid throw from RF to 2nd, much less gun someone out at 3rd. I don't know.

I actually thought it would get better because Lefty has gained a decent amount of muscle during Covid, implemented more stretching on a daily basis, eats well (dad is on a Dr mandated diet, so we are Whole Foods and lean meat as a family. Lefty eats two additional meals that are a little higher caloric/fat/protein or this is when he gets his junk food fix in. lol) and loves his sleep.  Despite the shutdowns in CA he has continued to train fairly steadily, albeit more individually than before.  It is early in the season so it's been a while since he threw more than 50 pitches, but there was a thought out onramp.

I agree. A post designed to advertise that he knows more about physiology than I do isn’t helpful or relevant to the topic.

@adbono posted:

I agree. A post designed to advertise that he knows more about physiology than I do isn’t helpful or relevant to the topic.

You entered into a conversation and gave advice that is misinformed and outdated. All I did was point that out for you to reflect on. I'm not going to show up and spray you with a water bottle. I just don't see the point in offering information that has poor reasoning behind it.

@LousyLefty posted:

@XFactor this has been going on for years somewhat.  It's not new.  There is no pain or anything more than mild discomfort when stretching, just a lack of zip to the ball and what seems like a slower recovery time than his peers. Maybe my view is skewed, the other two way player is a catcher and he seems to be ready to throw a million pitches every day...Maybe it's not normal to throw 95 pitches Tuesday and be ready to play OF Wednesday. He said he didn't think he could make a solid throw from RF to 2nd, much less gun someone out at 3rd. I don't know.

I actually thought it would get better because Lefty has gained a decent amount of muscle during Covid, implemented more stretching on a daily basis, eats well (dad is on a Dr mandated diet, so we are Whole Foods and lean meat as a family. Lefty eats two additional meals that are a little higher caloric/fat/protein or this is when he gets his junk food fix in. lol) and loves his sleep.  Despite the shutdowns in CA he has continued to train fairly steadily, albeit more individually than before.  It is early in the season so it's been a while since he threw more than 50 pitches, but there was a thought out onramp.

It's tough to take player A who is a two-way player and player B, also a two-way player, and want to know why and how come player A can throw a million times. Perhaps he’s built up his volume of throws to be able to handle it more so than player B, maybe his nutrition and sleep is better, maybe all of that maybe none of that. Maybe player A has different muscle attachments that offer more mechanical advantages and is able to spend less energy per throw and his CNS doesn’t fatigue as quickly and so he’s able to recover faster.

What might help track overall fatigue for your son may be asking him “On a scale of 0-10, 0 being the easiest practice ever and 10 being the hardest, how hard was that practice on you?” and “On a scale of 0-10, 0 being the easiest and 10 being the hardest, how hard was that for your shoulder?”

The reason being is you can have an easy-moderate practice, but they might say “Yeah I threw like 100 times and my shoulder is dead” or they can have a really hard practice but say “Yeah my shoulder feels great” so again, that might be a way to track his fatigue. “Hey this past week you’ve been having like a 7/10 for your shoulder, maybe talk with your coach and pitching coach about lowering your volume/intensity/distance a bit to see if we can help you recover from your workload.”

The information I offered is what worked for me. You chose to focus on semantics. There are fewer things in sports that I have encountered that are more ridiculous than an arrogant athletic trainer.

@adbono posted:

Some good advice here and some not so good. Never use heat after throwing- only before. Use ice only after you throw and it’s best for 20 min on & 20 min off. Repeat 2 or 3 times. Next day what you want is to move the lactic acid buildup out of the arm and shoulder. General blood flow is what does that. Running, bands, weighted ball work are all good for recovery the day after throwing. This can be accelerated with the use of horse liniment. It’s not FDA approved for human use so some are squeamish about it. I’m not. I used it for years when I played. I don’t believe in long toss the day after unless it was a short outing. Otherwise 2 days after is more appropriate. When doing long toss it’s important to keep a reasonable distance - like 120’. Anytime you change your arm slot to make the ball carry farther you are practicing something that you won’t duplicate on the mound - which is counterproductive. Swimming is great anytime and is something that should be integrated into a recovery routine if possible.

Adbono - FWIW my college pitching son and other two high school pitching sons would do exactly as you describe minus the weighted balls and horse liniment.  The ice routine, running, long toss @ reasonable distance, and bands were part of their routine for 10+ years.  It worked for them.

BTW..I have a buddy that swears by the horse liniment too.  It had a strong smell, kind of like a medicine cabinet.  I'd rather take a couple Advil before, band work before, and ice after I play tennis than rub that stuff on me and change the air quality of my car.