Preferred walk on at University of AZ

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Anybody have any experience with this? We were told that they get all of the baseball stuff and are on the fall roster and anything can happen. The best play. But none of the preffered walk ons made the team last year. Any experience with this would be appreciated. I can't find any info about if any ever make the team or are just used to scrimmage the scholly guys in the fall.

You may have answered your own question.

Arizona has such a good reputation as a baseball powerhouse that I'm betting it would be hard to beat out kids recruited to play on the team.

I would rather try walking on somewhere else.

Doughnutman,

All I can offer is observations from son's lower-D1 team who does add a couple walk-ons per year. My son's school offers no athletic money. I know of 5 players that have walked-on over the last 2 years. Only one player (backup college QB) has seen significant time as a pitcher.

Depending on your son's goals, you may want to re-think this if playing time is a significant goal or playing professionally is in the cards. I'd consider other options/offers to compare to AZ's walk-on offer.

Doughnutman,

I wrote the following last year and some people found it helpful. I'm pasting/re-posting to address your question:

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Even the best walk-on situation is an invitation to a precarious baseball existence where the odds are against his ever making a meaningful contribution to the team.

It takes a special situation and a special player to make it work.

I recommend you assess both very carefully.

Step One: Assess the Situation.
Find out if he will be treated exactly like the scholarship players from the first day he arrives on campus.

At my son's school, there are preferred walk-ons whose status is indistinguishable from that of the scholarship athletes. They are so integrated into all aspects of team life that no one knows they are walk-ons unless they volunteer the information, which no one ever asks them to do.

Find out if the "guarantee" means your son will:
--Have the same conditioning and workout opportunities (group conditioning sessions, assigned locker, laundry service, after-hours facility access) as the scholarship players if he attends summer school with them;
--Have the same conditioning and workout opportunities in the weeks between the beginning of school and the beginning of official practice (this matters a lot because the players' concept of who is really on the team is solidified long before practices officially begin based on who is up early and working hard;
--Live in the same housing as the freshman scholarship players (this depends on your school: some coaches have control over a certain number of room assignments in preferred dorms; some coaches have no say in the matter at all);
--Receive the same academic support (services from team academic advisor, registration priority, free tutoring, etc.);
--Be exempted from the open tryout attended by the un-recruited walk-ons.

If all of the above are true, your son may assume he will be given a legitimate opportunity to prove himself.

Step Two: Assess the Suitability of the Player to Succeed as a Walk-on.
If the situation is promising, you can assess the player.

All walk-ons must confront two facts up front.
Fact #1: The coach's livelihood depends on his ability to evaluate talent.
Fact #2: The coach's initial assessment is that the walk-on has less potential than the scholarship athletes.

These facts are reality, and they will not go away.

For most players, the coach's assessment is correct and will be proven so by hard experience.

For a small minority, the coach's assessment is incorrect; however, recognition of these facts will eventually become a source of discouragement and doubt. These players should not become walk-ons.

For a tiny, tiny minority, the coach's assessment is incorrect, and the player's cast of character is such that the hard facts will become a wellspring of motivation and determination.

To assess your son's suitability for a walk-on spot, ask the following hard questions:
--Does your son have an informed basis for believing the coach's assessment is wrong and he really can compete alongside the scholarship players? Is it plausible?
--How good is your son at walking a hard path by himself?
--Is your son is the sort of young man who is driven to prove doubters wrong? When has he done it in the past? How often in life has he surged from the back of the pack to prevail in the end? Did he glide through youth ball on superior talent, or does he have a track record of outworking the competition and surprising his coaches?
--How hot does the fire burn within him? Does it still burn in the face of adversity? How often have others described your son as relentless, determined, passionate, or persistent?
--What's his track record in the matter of choosing friends? Does he naturally gravitate toward those with high goals and outstanding work habits, or does he choose friends mostly who are fun to hang out with?


If the situation is right and the player is right, it MIGHT not be totally reckless to accept the offer.

Best wishes.

If my son were give the opportunity to be a preferred walk on for a team, I'd be sure it was absolutely, positively his first SCHOOL choice. If the walk on opportunity gave him a boost to get into a school he wouldn't have otherwise qualified for, that seems like you hit the jackpot.

If he has an opportunity to play somewhere else, however, and playing is his goal, I would look elsewhere.

About twenty players impact the season. I would think a team like Arizona would be able to find their top twenty out of all the players they recruit. Then more top recruits come in the following year. Chances are a late blooming pitcher is more likely to walk on than a position player. There are always exceptions, but I'll bet the odds are long for a position player in a ranked program.

Thanks for the responses. They said he will be part of the team. He will be treated the same as everyone else but they have already allocated the money for 2013's. He will be on the fall roster of 35 players. It was nice to be asked. Since no NLI is involved, we will prob keep it on the back burner. Unfortunately, they only spoke to him. When I have a conversation with them I will def bring up swampboys questions. There are three kids on the team that were preferred walk ons. One is in Cape Cod playing right now.
Thanks a lot.

Good Luck Doughnut! I know there will be other opportunities for your son!

quote:

He will be on the fall roster of 35 players

Are you sure the fall roster will only have 35?
Most have 40-45 some more.

With any D1 max roster size of 35 and 27 are receiving baseball money, then there are 8 walkon's at every school that has a 35 man roster.

I understand the roster limits ad scholarships.What I am saying is there is a very good chance there will be over 35 guys out in the fall.

I would not be afraid of a Preferred Walk On offer. My son received one from a large Florida University. They had 4 of their starting position players filled by recruited walk ons. At the time he was getting significant offers from several D2 and out of state D1's.

It was back in 2008 when all the roster changes went into effect. In the end he chose to go where he expected to become the every day starter. He was not interested in waiting his turn. He goes crazy when he is not playing.

Doughnutman, it may be too late for this advice, but here it is just in case.

Your son may want to be careful that he doesn't become a "recruited" prospect at AZ. If he is "recruited", does go there for a year, and then wants to transfer to another Div. I school, he'll have to sit out in his first year of transfer. If he's not "recruited" he'll have the chance to transfer to another Div. I and be immediately eligible.

You can find more info in the blog on our website titled "NCAA Rules - Definition of a Recruited Athlete."

If you are a walk on with no NLI and no money, if you don't make the spring squad aren't you a free agent with no penalty if you transfer?

Hmm. Don't think so. Any athlete that participates in fall workouts would have to sit out a year if he transfers. If he doesn't play during the spring, he's just used a redshirt year.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
If you are a walk on with no NLI and no money, if you don't make the spring squad aren't you a free agent with no penalty if you transfer?

The clock starts on the five years to play four.

Go where they love you!

That is the advice we followed, and it worked out well.

Doughnutman, if an athlete was "recruited" they have to sit out from competition their first year in residence if they transfer to a Div. I program. And they're not a "free agent", they still have to seek permission to speak to other schools, and have to be released by their current school.

gamefan, that's not true if the athlete is not classified as "recruited."

Doughnutman,
We went through that same situation last year about this same time. My son had several offers from smaller D1 programs, DII, JCs, and a late PWO offer from a top tier D1 school. Almost everything you mentioned was the same with regards to being seen late in the recruiting cycle, being treated no different than scholarship athletes, etc. Also, when we talked to the coach, he told us about several players in the recent past who came in as PWO's and made significant contributions and worked their way into a scholarship. He said that he saw that potential in my son.

He ended up accepting the PWO position and just started fall work-outs last week with the team. For my son, it came down to the fact that it would have been one of his top choice schools whether or not he was playing baseball. It was a good fit overall and even if baseball does not work-out, he will be happy there. Also, I don't think there is any doubt in his mind that he will make the 25 man roster... it's nice to have that kind of confidence going in. I can't tell you how it will turn out for him, but I can tell you that he is really excited to be there.

Good Luck!!

There are some great posts here so far.
I'd only add that at some colleges, a preferred walk on means a guaranteed roster spot. That of course does not mean guaranteed playing time, or making the travel squad. However at least your sons foot is in the door, and if he has the talent he will get opportunities to impress the coaches and work his way up the ladder.
Of course there are colleges that mean he will have a chance to compete during the fall with no guarantees of making the spring /regular season team. There are unfortunately also programs that treat the kids like a meat market to where they imply, infer, or sometimes even knowingly lie to kids and parents with the term preferred walk on, then you son shows up with 60 other guys to compete for 35 spots. A institution in your state has just such an infamous reputation.

The bottom line is that you and your son must be very specific when speaking to the coaches to determine exactly what they mean by "preferred walk on". Additionally even if they say xyz, and you accept those conditions, it is only as good as their word and integrity. Needless to say you need to do your research and see how honest/honorable they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick at Informed Athlete:
Doughnutman, it may be too late for this advice, but here it is just in case.

Your son may want to be careful that he doesn't become a "recruited" prospect at AZ. If he is "recruited", does go there for a year, and then wants to transfer to another Div. I school, he'll have to sit out in his first year of transfer. If he's not "recruited" he'll have the chance to transfer to another Div. I and be immediately eligible.

You can find more info in the blog on our website titled "NCAA Rules - Definition of a Recruited Athlete."

Good point made above.

RJM's comment is spot on. On a 35 man roster, only maybe 20-22 are impact players (and most are pitchers). Keep in mind that on a 40 man ML roster only 25 are needed, the rest are reserves. A school that plays the schedule it does needs to keep reserves on hand.

The "we ran out of money" really means, "we are only allowed 27 scholarships and you didn't get one" .

Ask them if your son walks on his first year, how much will they give him as a sophmore when money becomes available. The problem is that your son is willing to give up much to be a PWO, in reality they are not willing to give up anything, usually.

How can a player that didn't make the team last year be playing in Cape Cod?

"There are unfortunately also programs that treat the kids like a meat market to where they imply, infer, or sometimes even knowingly lie to kids and parents with the term preferred walk on, then you son shows up with 60 other guys to compete for 35 spots. A institution in your state has just such an infamous reputation."

That was ASU under Pat Murphy. I hope that it changes under Tim Esmay. Time will tell.My son received an email from ASU earlier this month.It was the standard fill out the questionnaire type. Nonetheless, My son was excited to receive it.Although,if he was offered a preferred walk at ASU and he had other choices, he said that he would not be interested.

I guess if the school in question is one of the players dream schools then the preferred walk on deal could work.I would proceed cautiously though.

Go where you're loved, not where they're interested.

quote:

Originally posted by bobbyaguho:
"There are unfortunately also programs that treat the kids like a meat market to where they imply, infer, or sometimes even knowingly lie to kids and parents with the term preferred walk on, then you son shows up with 60 other guys to compete for 35 spots. A institution in your state has just such an infamous reputation."

That was ASU under Pat Murphy. I hope that it changes under Tim Esmay. Time will tell.My son received an email from ASU earlier this month.It was the standard fill out the questionnaire type. Nonetheless, My son was excited to receive it.Although,if he was offered a preferred walk at ASU and he had other choices, he said that he would not be interested.

I guess if the school in question is one of the players dream schools then the preferred walk on deal could work.I would proceed cautiously though.

This topic has been addressed here frequently specifically in regard to Arizona State and Pat Murphy. Two things I will mention:

1. I asked Pat Murphy about this a few years back for a story I wrote for the Perfect Game website. He said he viewed the Fall as a tryout. If a good player asked for a chance, he would not say no -- but he did tell that player what to expect. So, there should not have been players who went in not understanding the situation. Undoubtedly, there were guys -- both on scholarship and also without any money -- who were disappointed at the final result.

2. Under Tim Esmay, the competition remains, but I have never seen more than 35 to maybe 37 players out in the Fall.

The bottom line is this: No matter where you go, there will be competition and that competition will be tough. There will be other very talented players trying to win the job at your position. Even with anywhere from 27 to 35 players on the team there will be more players on the bench than in the game. Nothing is handed to anyone. It is not for the faint of heart.

Sometimes, the player simply is not good enough to play at a particular level, including Division 3. Desire and hard work alone are important, but often they simply are not enough.

Good post Jemaz.

There are many programs that do the same as at ASU. I know that at USC (carolina) many players were given fall opportunities under the former HC that understood that they most likely would not make the team. This is done at other large programs as well as smaller programs. The reason why you don't see (or hear about) as many as you used to is due to transfer rules that came about a few years back.

quote:

With any D1 max roster size of 35 and 27 are receiving baseball money, then there are 8 walkon's at every school that has a 35 man roster.

Technically, you are right. But the mechanics of this are not necessarily right. Some players will be given, lets say, 100% in first year but 0% afterwards, by agreement ahead of time. Effectively works out to an average of 25% (or 33% if he is drafted and signs after 3 years).

This is done sometimes so that coaches can balance out later recruiting class allocations. More money available some years than others.

I do know a player who was given this deal (according to his parents) and I believe them.

I wouldn't call that guy a 'walkon' (in the sense that we're talking about here) in years 2-through-4.

I believe that many college rosters have players who (by prior arrangement) agree to a 'deal' where 0% is rotated in at some point during their college careers.

quote:

I believe that many college rosters have players who (by prior arrangement) agree to a 'deal' where 0% is rotated in at some point during their college careers.

Senior year after the coach didn't budget for the player because he was expected to sign after junior year.

So if you look at the Perfect Game site under college commitments you will see that Arizona has 15 nationally ranked recruits listed as committed. Obviously some of those are recruited walk ons I would imagine. AZ State has 22!

Doing the math, that means one of two things, many of these kids (probably the ones without money attached to them) aren't making the 35 man roster or two, many kids are being removed from the program each year so that more then half the team can come from the freshman class.

I wouldn't think there is much chance of this working out well for any kid at either of these schools.

My son did choose a Guaranteed Roster spot rather then attending schools that didn't fit him academically or baseball wise as well with money offered. He is provided every opportunity a scholarship athlete is from housing to academic support and expected to live up to high expectations. He was promised this spot for 4 years and if he succeeds the coach assures him money will come his way. I actually don't have a problem with this at all. He is being given the chance to compete to start as a freshman, treated great and is very happy. Honestly, if he plays to his ability then he will earn money and if he doesn't, he doesn't deserve it over others.

My son has calmly said he would rather be the worst player at a school because it will make him work harder and compete more rather then have an easy path at a school/team where he enters at the top. I think this is the perfect situation for him. So, don't write something off because dollars aren't attached....just investigate the program and if baseball is critical, make sure you are guaranteed a roster spot. It's very different than being invited to complete on a fall roster for a spot that very well doesn't exist unless of injury to an expected player.

Did the 15 recruits at U of A and ASU include all of the kids that were committed but signed a pro contract instead? It seems that there are always quite a few that go pro and quite a few that never reach campus due to grades or other factors and play JC in AZ.

That could be why they have so many. I know at least 4 commitments at U of A that were drafted this year out of AZ. All were prefered walkons...

I may be wrong but non athletic D1 commitments are not announced, only those that will receive an NLI?

DM,
I am very curious as to where those 4 recruited walk on commitments without a scholarship, were drafted. Can you supply info regarding what round, etc? Did they sign pro or did they show up at school? What did they sign for?

TPM,
They announce all recruited players as several I know have shown up on various colleges lists on Perfect Game when they are rostered without athletic money.

I do not know but assume the recruit lists included all the kids recruited regards of what they did after the draft but still, unless you are recruiting the wrong kids, how many of 22 really get drafted and don't go to college? Say they lose a third, which seems very suspect from an academic point to me, they will still have 15 freshman plus who ever else they promised fall tryouts to. I could be approaching this from a different opinion because I really valued graduation rates of the baseball team when we evaluated things as I wanted my son to end up with a diploma regardless of what happens with baseball. But either there's a lot of disappointed kids (new to the team or booted from it) or there is a lack of degrees getting handed out in the baseball program.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportsfan:
So if you look at the Perfect Game site under college commitments you will see that Arizona has 15 nationally ranked recruits listed as committed. Obviously some of those are recruited walk ons I would imagine. AZ State has 22!

Doing the math, that means one of two things, many of these kids (probably the ones without money attached to them) aren't making the 35 man roster or two, many kids are being removed from the program each year so that more then half the team can come from the freshman class.

I wouldn't think there is much chance of this working out well for any kid at either of these schools.

My son did choose a Guaranteed Roster spot rather then attending schools that didn't fit him academically or baseball wise as well with money offered. He is provided every opportunity a scholarship athlete is from housing to academic support and expected to live up to high expectations. He was promised this spot for 4 years and if he succeeds the coach assures him money will come his way. I actually don't have a problem with this at all. He is being given the chance to compete to start as a freshman, treated great and is very happy. Honestly, if he plays to his ability then he will earn money and if he doesn't, he doesn't deserve it over others.

My son has calmly said he would rather be the worst player at a school because it will make him work harder and compete more rather then have an easy path at a school/team where he enters at the top. I think this is the perfect situation for him. So, don't write something off because dollars aren't attached....just investigate the program and if baseball is critical, make sure you are guaranteed a roster spot. It's very different than being invited to complete on a fall roster for a spot that very well doesn't exist unless of injury to an expected player.

I don't know about Arizona, but after the draft and the signings and another headed to a JC, I think about 13 those 22 players are in school at Arizona State. There are probably one or two more who also have been added. There will be intense competition in the fall, but, as always, it will be a fair competition. No one will be caught unaware.

Off of last year's roster at ASU, 21 players are back, including three seniors. Nine off of last year's team are playing pro baseball. Six of the nine were juniors (5) or draft eligible sophomores (1). Three more were seniors, at least two of whom graduated, maybe all three. Four players transferred and will be playing at other schools this year and one graduated and is not playing pro baseball.

Although I do not have the exact numbers and cannot remember the precise terminology, ASU's graduation rate for baseball players ranks high both within the PAC 12 and with the NCAA's Division I classification. So, calisportsfan, your numbers don't quite add up and some of your assumptions, as you have stated them here, simply are not accurate.

That said, ASU is not a place for the faint of heart when it comes to baseball. It is not for everyone. For some very talented players, it does not work out the way they had hoped. For others, it can -- and does -- lead to some amazing opportunities in professional baseball. ASU has placed 101 players (and counting) in Major League Baseball since the program became a varsity sport in 1959. Great players want to play baseball at ASU year-after-year because of the tradition, the weather and overall setting, the chance to compete nearly every season to go to Omaha, the prospects for pro baseball and the chance to play with other great players. On top of all of that, the academic support is amazing and is highly valued by nearly every player and of great benefit to every one of them, as reflected in the graduation rates, even including those players who have to finish their degrees while they are playing professionally or when their playing days are over.

And, as I said above, although every player enters with the same high hopes that cannot possibly be realized by all, no one is surprised that tough decisions have to be made every year. It is worth taking the shot, which is a tough shot to get.

It is not any different at any other top program like LSU, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Fullerton, Texas, Florida State, Vanderbilt, Arkansas. I could go on and on. It is not the same way at some programs that are not as competitive (although I think there is tough competition everywhere and with 35-man rosters there are going to be disappointed players at every school. It is dictated by the math).

Good post above, the programs mentioned and a few more are not for the faint of heart, and reality is that many players end up leaving these programs.
Four transfering is a lot at omne time.

These type of programs are built on winning and expected to year in and year out, some of them looking at their seasons as failure if they do not go to Omaha.

Keep in mind that as a preferred walk on, your sons position has already been filled and perhaps there is a prospect waiting in the wings that the coach gave a scholarship to because he sees the player as the future. This is a personal decision but when in consideration the player should know that the odds are more against you than for you.

Or perhaps it was indicated at some point your son would come without a scholarship. FWIW even the rich kids get athletic money, never sell yourself short. Even on the college level this game is about money, the best get paid big bucks to play, just as the best HS players get scholarships. JMO.

TPM, if your words of the best get paid were aimed at me, my son had athletic offers from some top Mid Majors. He is a great ball player, but perhaps not a stud. However, my family values education above how many off the roster go pro and the majority of schools (including AZState) regardless of their baseball programs successes didn't make the cut due to academics.
So, yes we chose to pay somewhere I believe he is wanted and a roll is clearly laid out for him that is an excellent academic fit. The only thing I am certain of is that he will have a marketable degree in four years and a college experience that suits him. Luckily that's a choice we were able to make.

Last there is one main difference and I don't mean to be insulting as I didn't graduate from a Stanford myself but there is a very big difference between AZS and the Stanford's, UCLA's and Vanderbilt's of the world, it's the name on the degree and the doors that opens for you. Any degree is better then none but one that says Stanford or the like is pretty impressive.

THe four I knew are actually 3. One of the kids was going to ASU. My mistake.
Dylan Cozens 2nd round
Joey Curletta 6th rd
Seth Meijas Breen 8th rd

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
THe four I knew are actually 3. One of the kids was going to ASU. My mistake.
Dylan Cozens 2nd round
Joey Curletta 6th rd
Seth Meijas Breen 8th rd

Cozens had a football scholarship to U of A. (He signed with the Phillies for $650,000 or so). Not sure what Mejias-Brean's situation was, but he had previously accepted a football scholarship to San Diego State to play quarterback.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportsfan:
TPM, if your words of the best get paid were aimed at me, my son had athletic offers from some top Mid Majors. He is a great ball player, but perhaps not a stud. However, my family values education above how many off the roster go pro and the majority of schools (including AZState) regardless of their baseball programs successes didn't make the cut due to academics.
So, yes we chose to pay somewhere I believe he is wanted and a roll is clearly laid out for him that is an excellent academic fit. The only thing I am certain of is that he will have a marketable degree in four years and a college experience that suits him. Luckily that's a choice we were able to make.

Last there is one main difference and I don't mean to be insulting as I didn't graduate from a Stanford myself but there is a very big difference between AZS and the Stanford's, UCLA's and Vanderbilt's of the world, it's the name on the degree and the doors that opens for you. Any degree is better then none but one that says Stanford or the like is pretty impressive.

Best of luck to your son, calisports fan, but, I must say, I find this latest post incredibly insulting. ASU is not Stanford, but it is a very impressive major state university that fulfills its mission (to educate the young people of Arizona) with distinction. For those more academically gifted, there is ASU's Barrett Honors College, where some of the most qualified students in the nation attend. I take it you are not familiar with Barrett.

You mention professional baseball with a disdain I find surprising. ASU is for highly competitive baseball players who can handle failure (or success, which is sometimes more difficult to handle) if that is the result. The vast majority of those players today earn their degrees. You do not need to tear down the school -- or those who take their chances there -- to build up your own son. It is baffling from what I have read here how or why ASU even enters into the conversation regarding your son.

Jemaz, I sincerely apologize for offending you. My history of posting here really would substantiate the fact that I value a certain caliber of degree over a baseball program that send many to the pro's. That's not an indictment on others, simply my personal opinion.
ASU has nothing to do with my son nor do I have I had any negative association with the program but the original post addressed the chances of being a walk on at AZ and that caused me to go through the exercise of seeing how many recruits they already had signed so as to provide solid perspective and the two schools were simply next to each other on the list and both had many recruits so I mentioned them both. I wanted to point out the number of commitments a program has effects the chances of a walk on in my opinion and calling into question what happened to last years team...honest question when we are repeated advised to look at roster stability from year to year on this site when evaluating an opportunity. My son came up as a way to illustrate that I am not one who discounts various opportunities...there's more then one way to accomplish what we set out to accomplish, not to relate him to this conversation but simply establish another way of looking at things.

It should not be an insult to ASU that I point out that they are not Stanford, UCLA or Vanderbilt. I did that because you said they weren't any different from any other major program and mentioned schools including those three. I pointed out the glaring difference simply because a kid many choose to take a bigger baseball chance in exchange for a degree from one of those schools if it didn't work out for baseball. For some people, that would still be a win. Those three schools are terrific academic schools in another class then most. The admissions requirements and make up of the freshman class is not designed by me and I think it is a commonly held opinion that Stanford etc >ASU academically. Again, not an insult, simply a fact. My perspective is colored by how will you really support yourself after four years of college baseball are over. I don't expect my son to go pro. If that happened, I would counsel him to graduate first (again, just my personal priority) and he would disagree!But that's an argument I doubt we will have

I am sorry for offending you. I am not trying to insult ASU, simply give academic credit where it is most due and credit to those students who rise to the top of their national class and can be considered at those great colleges, not all excellent baseball players can be considered at the best academic schools so those that can, should be recognized for being excellent in both arena's.

calisportfan,
My comment was not intended to insult you or others.

My opinion is that players and families should
makes decisions based upon what is best for them and I have aways been an advocate that the thought of going pro should be the last reason why a player chooses a program. Yet it happens (that this is a strong reason to choose a certain program) and there is nothing wrong with that.

In my sons case he chose a program over others that had more stellar degrees, because he wanted to play for a coach who would help him get to the next level, which they did.

The reality is that in this day and age, most people look for ways to help (and should) pay for their players education, I know I did and I am not ashamed to admit that. There is nothing wrong with choosing to walk onto a prestigious program in lieu of going somewhere else for a lessor academic degree, if that is what is important to that player and his family, but I do not feel that is the norm for most who come here for advice. UCLA, Standford, Vanderbilt turn out many pro players and many of 1-5 top rounds. So to me that means that in some cases, pro ball is very much part of their decision. If someone told me their son walked onto a program such as the above because they wanted to play pro in 3 years, not just due to what doors open for them, I beleive it. This is not to be insulting but just the way I see it.

I beleive and nothing will change my mind (unless a player gets academic money in lieu of athletic) that those that get athletic/academic scholarships do so because the coach knows that in order to get this player to join his program and not someone elses, he has to give him money that will motivate his choice. This is a huge part of recruiting, figuring out how to get the guy to come to your program. That doesn't include the guys who have been fans since they were young or their parents alumni, that's easy.

I am not too familiar with those that have walked onto a program and sat in lieu of the coach playing those that he has given scholarships too and been 100% happy with that situation, are you? Most highly competitve players are not happy sitting while others play. Bottom line in any situation, the more you get the more you play, that would be in college as well as professional ball.

FWIW, DK has made himself some nice bucks playing professional ball including his bonus, with one more year to go for his degree, I sincerely doubt that with a lessor degree from lowly Clemson University, with his current life experiences and contacts, he will do just fine when he finally finishes his degree.

With that said, would I ever advise my player to be a walk on at a program like ASU or AZ? The answer is NO.

Go where they love you, and in most cases it's where they have given you $$ to attend.

calisportsfan:

I think you continue to underestimate ASU as an academic institution and especially minimize the impressive accomplishments of its thousands of graduates (which in and of itself is a strength in this particular case, just as it is a strength at Ohio State).

That said, I appreciate the intent of your note.