Hello,
I got 2 sons (pitchers) looking for a school for this fall. We thought we had a school for both of them to attend but it seems like coach stepped down - no new coach yet.
We're coming to realize that they might have to walk on and earn a spot so my question....
If we find them a school and they walk-on this fall and go out and kill it, does the coach not use them because they're not on scholarship? I had a friend tell me coaches use the kids that have scholarships.
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lucky4three,
A couple questions to clarify:
Can you confirm the current university can offer baseball scholarships (D1, D2, Other)? How many baseball scholarships can the program support? Why do you think your sons were not offered baseball scholarships?
Why wouldn't your sons stay where there at? Essentially, they could be considered preferred walk-ons there and it may be less risky as they are known quantities. What was it about the current university that attracted your sons?
So, your friends comment about scholarship vs non-scholarship isn't entirely accurate in my experience. It is true that some scholarship players get more opportunities because of the investment. However, that is only going to go so far. Coaches have to win, and there comes a point where a coach has to play the best player available. If he sees someone that can solve his problems, he is going to go with that person.
JMO. Good luck.
lucky4three
In addition to what fenwaysouth posted, it's important to know if are they both freshman or transfers?
I understand that you thought there was an agreement but the coach is no longer there? How solid was the agreement.
New coaches replacing the ones leaving can access the different portals for players. Walking on these days doesn't guarantee anything.
Like fenway mentioned, maybe scholarship players get more opportunities, but if they are given an opportunity and kill it the coach is going to play them. HC is trying to put the best team on the field.
I was a "preferred walk-on." I didn't really have a defensive position and had to attend fielding and catching sessions. In fall ball, when given the opportunity in the OF, I did pretty well. I was given responsibilities like getting the water jugs filled, picking up equipment, putting stuff away after practice, ... I didn't mind it. I was ranked below a player I played against all of my life and thought that I outplayed him. He was a scholarship player. No matter how many times the HC said how much he appreciated me, I guess I wasn't good enough.
@fenwaysouth posted:lucky4three,
A couple questions to clarify:
Can you confirm the current university can offer baseball scholarships (D1, D2, Other)? How many baseball scholarships can the program support? Why do you think your sons were not offered baseball scholarships?
Why wouldn't your sons stay where there at? Essentially, they could be considered preferred walk-ons there and it may be less risky as they are known quantities. What was it about the current university that attracted your sons?
So, your friends comment about scholarship vs non-scholarship isn't entirely accurate in my experience. It is true that some scholarship players get more opportunities because of the investment. However, that is only going to go so far. Coaches have to win, and there comes a point where a coach has to play the best player available. If he sees someone that can solve his problems, he is going to go with that person.
JMO. Good luck.
Thanks for taking the time to respond
Current JUCO did have scholarships but not many available. But we loved the coach and the grounds and boys already know a few going there. The scholarship is not really the issue - we're expecting to pay some tuition. One son was hurt and now just ramping up and the 2nd has a horrible GPA. But I guess there will be a new coach and he might not want them.
My oldest, AM is a medical red-shirt sophomore that spent 2 years down in New Orleans playing JUCO. Was a reliever his freshman year. Got about 20 innings was slated to be a starter his sophomore year but had a fracture in his L4. The main reason he doesn't go back is the coach and all his buddies gone. We're from the Midwest- it's different world down there.
2nd boy, JM - Sophomore - played at a D2 Catholic school. Did not have a good year academically. As parents we made a mistake, not a good fit for him, but he was one of the starting pitchers - got about 45-50 innings - he pitched some really good games, but his team could never pull off a win for him. Even if he wanted to back, he probably couldn't because of grades. So now, he's taking summer online classes to boost his GPA.
Ok, thanks for the background. That provides significantly more context for others to read and provide input. I’m not the best person to provide that JUCO or transfer input but there are many here who are, and some have provided input already. I have been thinking about your sons’ situation since you posted, and I have some thoughts below. Nothing mind blowing, but just how I might approach the challenge.
So, if I’m reading this correctly your older son is coming back from a lower back injury that can affect the lower back and extremities. He was at a JUCO for two years, so he needs to find a landing spot due to his health, departure of his coach, and JUCO time is up. If he is healthy, and his academics are in order I think it is going to be a matter of putting together a recruiting package for prospective coaches. Can he count on his former coach as a reference and a resource? Can you revisit other schools that were recruiting him out of high school?
Younger son had a decent year on the field, and won a starting pitchers spot but suffered in the classroom. You’re concerned that he couldn’t go back because of grades, which your son is currently trying to remediate his academics through summer classes to boost his GPA. So, I may not give up on this school just yet. Update the coach on his summer school progress, and ask the coach what he thinks. If the coach thinks his academics can be turned around, I’d ask if tutors are available for next semester. If the coach thinks there is no future there, then I think your son may want to consider JUCO or another program looking for someone like him. However, I’d be very cautious about the academic requirements and support that the school can provide. First and foremost, your son has to take responsibility in the classroom if he wants to play college baseball. It seems he’s learned that lesson and is attempting to turn it around. In my experience, most underclassmen have challenges in the classroom while playing a college sport. The adjustment and demands are extensive. If academic assistance is offered anywhere he is considering, I’d make sure he takes advantage of it.
Just my two cents. Challenge your sons to find a way to make this work for them. I’m hoping others will chime in with suggestions. Best of luck!
Lucky4
Are your sons playing in a Summer League?
Bob
@Consultant posted:Lucky4
Are your sons playing in a Summer League?
Bob
No.
Why ? You have several teams near you
Bob
@fenwaysouth posted:Ok, thanks for the background. That provides significantly more context for others to read and provide input. I’m not the best person to provide that JUCO or transfer input but there are many here who are, and some have provided input already. I have been thinking about your sons’ situation since you posted, and I have some thoughts below. Nothing mind blowing, but just how I might approach the challenge.
So, if I’m reading this correctly your older son is coming back from a lower back injury that can affect the lower back and extremities. He was at a JUCO for two years, so he needs to find a landing spot due to his health, departure of his coach, and JUCO time is up. If he is healthy, and his academics are in order I think it is going to be a matter of putting together a recruiting package for prospective coaches. Can he count on his former coach as a reference and a resource? Can you revisit other schools that were recruiting him out of high school?
Younger son had a decent year on the field, and won a starting pitchers spot but suffered in the classroom. You’re concerned that he couldn’t go back because of grades, which your son is currently trying to remediate his academics through summer classes to boost his GPA. So, I may not give up on this school just yet. Update the coach on his summer school progress, and ask the coach what he thinks. If the coach thinks his academics can be turned around, I’d ask if tutors are available for next semester. If the coach thinks there is no future there, then I think your son may want to consider JUCO or another program looking for someone like him. However, I’d be very cautious about the academic requirements and support that the school can provide. First and foremost, your son has to take responsibility in the classroom if he wants to play college baseball. It seems he’s learned that lesson and is attempting to turn it around. In my experience, most underclassmen have challenges in the classroom while playing a college sport. The adjustment and demands are extensive. If academic assistance is offered anywhere he is considering, I’d make sure he takes advantage of it.
Just my two cents. Challenge your sons to find a way to make this work for them. I’m hoping others will chime in with suggestions. Best of luck!
Thanks for taking the time out to reply. I really appreciate it.
@Consultant posted:Why ? You have several teams near you
Bob
Well, yes Bob, JM should of definitely been trying to find a team to pitch for. He's been healthy and he came off of a decent season for him. Shouldn't have been hard to find a team. My oldest, had back issues for the past year and just now starting to throw and ramp back up. They're reaching out to some teams to see if they need any arms for any games but their late in the game.
D1 teams have roster limits; none of the other levels do. So, juco, D2, D3, and NAIA teams can take as many players as they want, meaning that a player might "kill it" and get lots of opportunity, or might get lost in the crowd. You have no way of knowing how your sons will perform, or who is on what scholarship, but you can certainly look up roster sizes and the number of players who actually get playing time. That would tell you something about how the coach does things.
"Walking on" has two meanings, not clear which you mean. On the one hand, a "walk-on" might be someone who does not have athletic money - but they might have need-based money, academic money, etc. Such players might have been seriously recruited by the coach.
The second meaning is "showed up at fall tryouts" with no/little prior communication with the coach. Or, maybe the coach said, "I don't have money for you, but you are welcome to show up and try out" or even "I don't have money for you, but would be glad to have you on the team." In which case, see first paragraph.
Several years ago a friend’s son arrived at college freshman year and showed up for fall ball at an HA. A lot of kids showed up bragging they were preferred walk ons. He was one of six players the coach pushed through admissions. It turned out the twenty-seven walk ons had to get accepted on academic merits. Then there were three roster spots for the twenty-seven walk ons. I’m guessing the baseball coach received twenty-seven bonuses for selling potential baseball players on being full pay students.
Lucky4:
Are you a student of the "numbers" game.
Summer Baseball has the advantages of a player to be evaluated while performing in competition.
Each Summer team has 4 coaches all College Coaches. All coaches communicate information on each player in the Summer League.
In a 12 team Summer League = 48 evaluations to the HOME office.
With the emerging use of the "portal", a player who has the "tools" and academic skills can achieve his goals.
Bob
