Proper way to send a message?

quote:

Originally posted by T-Ball:
I know it is a part of the game.

Obviously if the team is having their signs picked, they need to get a little smarter too...

T-Ball, I have been opposed to this type of activity -- as it usually gets my kid plunked. In some cases, hypothetically of course, the kid on 2nd is trying to rattle the pitcher, distract him, cause him to think too much. And sometimes it works. If the signals between the base runner and hitter are not subtle, they are usually bogus. Hypothetically, of course.

I'm sure last Wed. he got plunked due to our pitcher being a little wild since we got 2 or 3 that inning.... Either that or hypothetically our pitcher was really distracted

I have heard of a runner recently getting stepped on for such activity. Ouch

I know that you said you knew that they were stealing your signs but sometimes team do it to rattle the pitcher like OP stated. We have in the past acted as though we have the signs only to get the pitcher to play mind games with himself. He managed to walk 3 batters in a row and was pulled.

So sometimes their just playing mind games with you.

PantherSon was hit after the coach took a trip to the mound....followed by the pitcher throwing 3 straight balls....followed by a HBP on ball 4. His mound visit preceded the first pitch but immediately following the base runner "stealing" signs from 2nd. Last week, the opposing coach called time to make a mound visit with an 0-2 count -- with the next pitch traveling over his head. Now, I'm not a baseball genius, but I've been around for 2530 posts on the HS BB web and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last week! Throwing at the hitter is not unexpected. I suppose turning to plunk the runner is too risky. I'm not complaining about this part of the game....it happens. I don't like my kid "wearing it" any more than you all do -- so, we either steal signs intelligently, or mess with the pitcher's head and risk the ramifications, or not do it at all.

The 2nd pitcher that night, T-ball, was just plain wild. Some take offense....some see it for what it is....

Hypothetically of course, what if an opposing parent is stealing the signs and commenting to the batters....hmmmm...

Hypothetically, I would pick of to 2nd base 3 or 4 times in a row and make a very hard slap tag to the helmet. After the 3rd or 4th time, the IF should let the runner know if he signals pitches again, the batter is getting drilled in the ribs.

I wouldn't step on him, though.

I guess I am of the school that, if your signs are being stolen, you should change them. Why should my kid get drilled or slapped on the head because your coach is too stupid to change his signs?

As a pitcher, I routinely change the signs... most of the time (if not 90% of the time) my catcher comes out to the mound, it's changing signs. We'll do 2-3 different ways an inning. I can make them pretty complicated. Luckily Matt is a smart boy and follows me. If they are blatant, I might accidently step off the rubber and tell the runner to stop being obvious, then change them... I've done it before.

I should note, changing signs isn't a big deal and is usually done before an at-bat begins-not getting rattled from the kid at second. If I have any doubt I'll do it also. No big deal. We also have signs from me to say what "thing" we're doing... I'm a little paranoid.

Stealing signs is overrated, especially in HS. Pitcher doesn't always hit his spots. Occasionally the pitcher reads the wrong sign anyhow. Often the batter is somewhat reluctant to believe the tip off. And some batters are trying to focus on the pitcher, so they don't even see the tip off.

Texan Son never worries much about it too much. The catcher can use a different scheme with R2, that's fine. But Texan Son is gonna throw his best pitch, & let the batter worry about trying to hit it.

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
Stealing signs is overrated, especially in HS. Pitcher doesn't always hit his spots. Occasionally the pitcher reads the wrong sign anyhow. Often the batter is somewhat reluctant to believe the tip off. And some batters are trying to focus on the pitcher, so they don't even see the tip off.

Texan Son never worries much about it too much. The catcher can use a different scheme with R2, that's fine. But Texan Son is gonna throw his best pitch, & let the batter worry about trying to hit it.

quote:

Hypothetically, I would pick of to 2nd base 3 or 4 times in a row and make a very hard slap tag to the helmet. After the 3rd or 4th time, the IF should let the runner know if he signals pitches again, the batter is getting drilled in the ribs

Definitely NOT hypothetical... Our team over the years had this play.(verbal code from the coach) we didn't HBP kids, We would slap tag them very hard over and over.

quote:

Originally posted by John G.:
Definitely NOT hypothetical... Our team over the years had this play.(verbal code from the coach) we didn't HBP kids, We would slap tag them very hard over and over.

I agree...my 13U team did this a few weeks ago. I wasn't at the game and heard my SS picked off 4 times in a row because the runner at 2nd was signaling pitches. After the 4th time, he tells him "I am not doing it a 5th time because you got the signals wrong."

I would say the pitcher shouldn't allow the runner the 2nd base in the first place. Actually, I would agree with T-Bird Dad that you have to change signs, maybe 2 or 3 times an inning. Of course, back in the old days the batter would just get one in the ribs but I don't agree with that policy.

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
Stealing signs is overrated

Just curious...on what experience can you make this assumption?

tbirddad

quote:

I guess I am of the school that, if your signs are being stolen, you should change them. Why should my kid get drilled or slapped on the head because your coach is too stupid to change his signs?

KG- I think stealing signs (when the coach gets them) maybe overrated because the batter gets the sign too late at times. Not overrated, just not nearly as stable as from second. Of course this isn't the scenario presented, just throwing that out there.

May not be as overrated as you might think. Was recently told by the father of a pitcher that his team was tipped off that the opposition made it a point of stealing coaches signs and ONLY attempted to steal on offspeed and curve balls.
That is a nice advantage to the runners.

KG how prevalent is it at upper levels of play? I would assume that with a catcher calling the game, it obviously takes the coach part out of it....

Very good point T-ball. Had not considered that aspect. As a hitter, if I'm getting a sign late (after the pitcher has begun his leg kick) then it almost messes me up. Especially if one time it's wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by T-Ball:

KG how prevalent is it at upper levels of play? I would assume that with a catcher calling the game, it obviously takes the coach part out of it....

Stealing signs and/or catching a pitcher tipping his pitches is a BIG part of the game.

Why do you think those little leather straps on the glove over the index finger started showing up? As some know, a pitcher digs a bit when griping an offspead pitch causing the pitcher to extend the index finger . Certain body language from a pitcher can suggest a certain pitch.

Stealing signs? It is common to teach baserunners on first to peak into the catcher looking for an offspeed pitch to steal on...as generally a catcher will not go through a sequence with no runner on second. ESPN camera's will show this happening often if you play close attention. Also, baserunners should pay close attention to where a catcher sets up with Righty vs. Righty match up or visa versa. It is very rare a catcher will set up inside unless the pitcher is throwing a fastball. Not a good pitch to steal on.

Stealing signs as a runner on second is difficult but can be done.....

Example.....go back to A-Rod's 01' season against Oakland. Look up his numbers. Then, if possible, look up how many times he came up with a runner on second. Compare averages. Not going into details but check it out. My guess it will show serious differences. For that matter, look at all the Texas numbers vs. Oakland in this manner.

As for stealing signs at the high school level, it can help if you have a team of players that understand the proper way to do it and implement it.

Last time I checked, kg, this was the HIGH SCHOOL Baseball Web. Not PRO Baseball Web.

I have seen many batters ignore the tip off from R2 because it is distracting. I have seen other batters get distracted (by their own later admission) and lose any advantage. I have seen R2 inadvertantly give the wrong tip off. I have seen R2 think he knows the signs & either he didn't or the pitcher crossed up the catcher (and the batter).

For typical youth & HS ball, trying to tip signs to the batter is overrated.

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
Last time I checked, kg, this was the HIGH SCHOOL Baseball Web. Not PRO Baseball Web.

Please refer to the quoted question I responded to. Last time I checked, I respond directly to the questions asked.

quote:

For typical youth & HS ball, trying to tip signs to the batter is overrated.

Again I ask....on what basis to you make these assumptions? Your playing , coaching , or watching experience ?

Down the endless (& meaningless) path again????

All, kg.

And okay, PD. That will be my last response to the overinflated ego on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
All, kg.

And okay, PD. That will be my last response to the overinflated ego on this thread.