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16 replies

Proposed Rule Change

B Bravescoach100+ posts
An all too common scenario...pitcher's struggling, coach has no choice but to bring in a positional player to relieve. Yet, by rule, that kid is allowed but a handful of warm-up pitches before play is resumed. Next thing you know, he's complaining of soreness of varying degrees and origins.

I think we'd all agree that inadequate warm-up greatly increases the risk of pitching-related injuries...especially in cooler weather. Yet, coaches are often left with no other option under current IHSA rules. With that said, I would propose the following for Rules Committee consideration:

In situations where a positional player would be the next pitcher of record, a courtesy fielder would be allowed to enter the game in order to afford said positional player proper time to warm-up. As the next pitcher of record, said reliever would be required to begin the next inning if not brought in sooner.

Current IHSA rules allow for courtesy runners and I see no reason why a courtesy fielder would be of any greater competitive value. At the same time, we could very well preserve some young arms which would otherwise be damaged.

Your thoughts?
"Your worth comes down to what you mean to others."
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R Ratboy100+ posts
Adding a rule would eliminate that old coaching strategy of telling the current pitcher to say "Coach, something is wrong with my arm" (implying an injury) -- thus giving his replacement unlimited warm-ups.

Isn't putting a position player in to pitch the same scenario -- a kid was called upon in the middle of an inning and hasn't had ample time to warm-up?
N nc42dad500+ posts
Bravescoach-

I agree 100%. I have seen this practice down in Little League. They hide behind this cloud of protecting young arms but you see a kid come in a game, at night, 35 degrees out, he's been standing in the outfield shivering, and they give him 5 pitches to warm up.

Seen it at every level. Just because they are young, doesn't mean they are not prone to arm injuries.

My all time favorite one was when I was gone and a coach put my kid in to pitch - the day after throwing 5 innings. I confronted him about why he pitched 3 innings the day after throwing 5 innings. His response, "he only threw 16 pitches (in 3 innings)." Find that one hard to believe. 2 weeks later he had tendonitis and didn't pitch the rest of the year.

Anybody else have a horrow story?
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
My son as a sophomore was the starting CF and sometimes pitcher---one cold day he gets called in to relieve with no advance warning---gets his 8 warmups and then proceeds to walk the first batter on 4 straight pitches---the coach runs to the mound screaminmg at him---he calmly hands the coach the ball and turns and heads to CF---Coach says where you going---my son says back to my position---your not embarassing me and possibly ruining my arm--- he later told coach don't ever ask him to pitch again and he never did and this is a kid who threw upper 80's/low 90's
B BCRockets100+ posts
I like the intent of the rule, but I think figuring out how to make this switch work is part of managing a game in high school. Maybe you have to pinch hit for a kid the inning before, maybe you have to put someone in his spot defensively during the inning so he can get loose, maybe it's a matter of reading your pitcher and knowing when you need to be sure someone is ready. I also like to have at least one relief pitcher on the bench or as DH so I can get someone loose in a hurry. I will not just pull someone off the diamond to pitch with no warm-up so part of my job as manager is to be sure that I have someone ready to go when my starter tires.
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Don't most teams just warm them up between innings?


No, not always. My sons most often came in from shortstop when the pitcher was in trouble...warmed up with the usual 6 pitches....and in this cold climate, 6 pitches are not nearly enough to warm up properly.

No, playing at shortstop there were innings that he would not have one ball to field.... so he wasn't warmed up from playing that position.....

Sounds like a good rule to me. However, if I could turn back the hands of time, I would never allow either of my sons to play shortstop and pitcher.
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
BCRockets: Good point for the coach to read the pitcher correctly and having another player warm up. How many games have been lost by allowing a pitcher to stay in the game too long to the point where the score had changed from winning to losing .....and then finally bringing in a fresh arm who shuts the other team down--but too late? Frustrating for all involved.

I can't imagine, with the coaches that my sons have had, what would have happened if either one of them had walked off the mound....and then tell the coach to never pitch him again... The coach wouldn't pitch him again, that's for sure. He'd never play again. Period.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
I guess areas are different. It was not uncommon for someone to say something to me about a change and for me to go to the ump and tell them I don't mind if the kid gets another pitch or two. In that time quite often the kid got the extra pitches because I was talking to the ump. We've always operated like that down here. Of course I'm talking veteran coaches. I would guess that a few of the younger guys might run into problems because they either would not ask or haven't presented themselves well in the coaching community.
R rebirdrbi10+ posts
I think that a coach should be more aware of the game, Have him warm up between innings just in case, or enter a sub for the player to go warm up and then re enter him to pitch. The rule is there. Once again i think its the mentality of coaches to only have two or three pitchers do most of the work when they should be developing 4 or 5 pitchers that can contribute. Just my opinion.
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
I guess areas are different.


Not only are areas different but coaches are different, too. Some are really good (like you) and some are really bad. Not so much even in their coaching style, but also in the way they treat the health of the players. I'm envious of all who have had good coaches. They don't know how lucky/blessed they are.
B Bravescoach100+ posts
Fellas,
Just so we're clear, this thread was not meant to be an indictment of high school coaching nor a critical analysis of certain coaches. The point I'm trying to make is that the IHSA has a number of rules in place to reduce the risk of injury (avoidance of contact, etc.) and to move the games along (courtesy runners, limited warm-up pitches, etc.). What I'm proposing would accomplish both in the stated situation that even the most prudent coach may, at some point, find himself in. With that, I'm simply seeking feedback as to how realistic my proposed rule change may be and whether it's worth persuing further with the IHSA.
J jjwalshMember
This doesn't sound like a bad idea. However, I'm not sure about the courtesy fielder idea. I'm not a big fan of the courtesy runner...they can change a game. Slower, bigger catcher/pitcher ran for by a littler kid with speed...I'm not a big fan. It's supposed to speed up the game, but the time difference is not that great, in my opinion.

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