Prospect Camps

Some of the invites are just that, invites because you are on a list and they want to make some money. However, if they are truly interested, the individual college camp is a way for them to see if your son is "coachable." My son went to one last year as a rising junior, and there wasn't much interest in what he was doing, they were looking at the rising seniors. However, he has also been to a couple as a rising senior and there is a huge difference, with coaches talking to him, working with him, etc. If you are interested in the school and they have shown any interest beyond the invitation, if you can figure out a way, you should go.

Is your son an 08? They will just start looking at them now. If he is an 09 wait until next year. I agree with JohnLex7 but also want to add that it is an opportunity for YOU and YOUR SON to check out the baseball program and the campus. Follow it up by going to a game when the season starts. Many of the programs will put you on the free admission list. Watch how the coaches coach the teams. That will tell you a lot. Remember, you are in the process of targeting the 10-20 programs where your son is a good fit.

brod

he is an 07. here is why i ask. he attended a top 96 event and recently received a hand written invite to prospect camp at div 1 school. this is a school that was not on our rader at all, will require plane ride and overnight stay to attend the prospect camp and is a much larger school, urban school than we anticipated he would attend. what to do? son wants to go.

If you can financially swing it, it might be a good experience for your son to see what a larger, urban school has to offer.

Marina,
I also have an 07 that went to TPX and got invited for prospect camps. I know that certain colleges do pick up a few players at the prospect camps. If I were you, before I spent all that money just to attend a camp, I would have my son call or email and ask if there is a definite interest in recruiting him or if they customarily invite showcase players from other events. Also, I would determine if this was truly a college that he would want to attend. My son really wants to stay in Texas, so that kind of solves our problems as far as attending out of state college camps. If he is interested in the school and the coach says he is interested in him,and you have the money to swing it, then by all means go. You never know what can happen!

I'll share a recent story to illustrate that you must fully investigate camps or showcases that say they have an interest in your son.

My son received about a week ago an invitation to a national showcase that he was also invited to before. "You're a top prospect that one or more of the below schools has requested to see..." with about two dozen large schools listed.

You say "great, is he going". Well, the problem is my son is a sophomore in college!!! Maybe they thought son got held back or something?

My son got a personal invite to a D-1's "prospect camp" along with a speech that "if a kid is truly interested in our program, he will come to our camp." Kid went, that coach, the head coach, and the recruiting coordinator were all gone. Turns out there was a post season connie mack tourney down the road. So the "prospect camp" was run by the director of baseball operations and a new graduate assistant. Take a long hard look at how many kids really and truly get recruited out of a school's so-called prospect camp before spending your money.

My son and I spent last weekend at a particular school's prospect camp. We went because we wanted to size up the school, as much as to let them size him up.

What the brochure promised and what we got were two very different things.

Brochure promise: Evaluation by head coach and staff. Reality: Never saw head coach, one asst. was present throughout, another handled logistics to the point where he didn't watch any of the players at all. Squads were managed by local HS coaches. Top assistant came once to check on the condition of the field, did not interact with players or stay to assess them. Neither my son nor I had any opportunity to interact with the coaches or get any idea of their personalities or philosophies.

Brochure promise: Tour of campus and discussion of school's academic programs. Reality: Players got a 10-minute tour limited to walking around the baseball facilities. Near the end of camp, a professional scout (not a coach) gave a 45-minute talk to the players that covered several topics. The extent of the academics mention was (a) what you have to do in HS to be eligible for Division I play, and (b) what you have to do once you get there to stay eligible and keep the school out of trouble with the NCAA.

Some players who came on Sat. did not return for Sunday. We stayed for the whole thing, just to see if anything ever changed. Nothing did.

Now, you might think we would feel like we wasted our time and money. Au contraire!

In just two days, we were able to eliminate one school from our list.

Our impression of this program is that they are arrogant -- they think everyone wants to go there, so the only remaining task is to decide which ones they want. Also that academics are not a priority and that players go to class only because it's required to play baseball.

We found all this out at a pretty reasonable cost, I think.

This is not sour grapes. My son got a written evaluation that spoke of him in glowing terms. I'm just trying to figure out how to handle things if this school contacts us in the future. Do we take the diplomatic route? Or just tell them the truth and let them know why we have written them off?

In the meantime, we are planning to attend 4-5 other camps in the next five months. If all of them are as enlightening as this one was, it will make my son's decision really, really easy.

Before you attend a college camp, know this: first and foremost they generate revenue for programs and supplement the income of assistant coaches and "volunteer " coaches.
My standard suggestion is that if a school is showing some "legitimate" interest in a prospect, the camp may be a good opportunity for both sides to check each other out. Having said that, as Medlo relates, oftentimes you'll show up, get a 5 minute pep talk from head coach, who then makes a bee line to the office to collect the golf clubs and you never see him or the paid assistants again.
I got a call yesterday from a father who received a phone call from a Top 30 D1 school, clearly in response to info in my website concerning his son. They were "intrigued by his speed and size" and wanted him to attend the upcoming "prospect camp". When I checked out the coach, who I did not know, his title was "video coordinator".
Caveat emptor.

rb

What would you consider "legitimate" interest? 07 has received 2 hand written invitations to the prospect camp from recruiting coach after having been seen at a Top 96 event.........and email invite from head coach in response to completing the online questionnaire. Is it ok for parents to call the coach to assess interest? If I do call, what should I be asking?

Guessing what a piece of recruiting mail really means is about as accurate as reading tea leaves. (no offense meant to the tea leaf readers in the audience! ) IMO, if a college coach is truly interested, you are going to know. In our experience, colleges had such varied recruiting styles. Some big colleges flood you with "stuff" and it may only mean that they have a great recruiting staff budget! While for other colleges a single letter or phone call from the head coach is a big deal because their program does not churn out a lot of paper! Don't guess, ask. Son's #1 school sent very little recruiting material but when contacted expressed a very high level of interest. You just can't tell by the weight or style of the material alone. If there is some contact and the program is truly a fit both academically and the level of baseball, then have you son get on the phone or e-mail and ask them the direct question about their level of interest. Just my 2 cents.

Of allthe things you receive from a college for me the most important item is the invite to visit the school and the campus either as an official or unoffical visit--not an invite to a "camp"

RHP05Parent-
Looking for a clarification specifically on email communication and timing.
If an 07 sends an email to a coach right now, it is my understanding that the coach can respond.

But what if an 08 (or 09 for that matter) sent the coach an email? Can the coach respond?

I know that an 08 could call a coach right now, and if he gets the coach live, he could speak with him. But the 08 can't leave a message for the coach to call him back.
Am I right on all of this?

TRHit has it right. I'll add this. An invite for an unofficial or even better, an official visit means something. An invite to a "camp" is nothing more than an effort to extract some money.

There are well meaning, wonderful men in the coaching profession, but the use and abuse of the so-called prospect camp as a misleading revenue generator has become a very unfortunate tool for leading on kids who have virtually zero chance of even riding the pine at most of these places. I hate to say this, but in my view it's getting to the point of the NCAA needing to take a look at this practice.

Kinda like the "cigarettes will kill you" label on a pack of smokes, these prospect camp brochures need a disclaimer:

"WARNING. THE FACT THAT YOU RECEIVED THIS BROCHURE DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE A PROSPECT. FOR THAT MATTER, IF YOU REALLY ARE A PROSPECT YOU WOULD HAVE HEARD FROM US BY SOME OTHER MEANS ALREADY. ALSO, SOME OF THE COACHES SHOWN ON THIS BROCHURE MAY NOT EVEN BE AT THE CAMP - THEY WILL BE OFF WATCHING THE "REAL" PROSPECTS AT ANOTHER LOCATION.

A better disclaimer:

OF THE 36 PLAYERS NOW IN OUR PROGRAM,_____ WERE ACTUALL IDENTIFIED FOR THE FIRST TIME AT ONE OF OUR PROSPECT CAMPS.

Or even better yet:

OF THE 36 PLAYERS IN OUR PROGAM, ______ EVER EVEN SET FOOT IN ONE OF OUR "PROSPECT CAMPS"

How's that for some truth in advertising???

To settle the discussion regarding camps, I asked a recruiter I know well (PG refers to him often) the following:

Question: I know camps help in bringing income for the program, but do you take advantage of your camps for recruiting purposes?

Answer: Camps are an easy way for us to see a recruit early. We have 5 early commits that we saw in camp and a total of 13 kids on last years roster. It is more than just a money maker.

While I found rc's post to be funny, and maybe true for some programs, I hope that this clears the misconception that camps are only for making money.

jbbaseball -
Yes, Yes & Yes. There are no restrictions on the player, they can call or write anytime. The NCAA restrictions are for the coaches and rules are based on the HS grade of the player (see Guide below, page 28). It also varies by college divisions. E-mail is considered the same as US Mail in recruiting.


NCAA Guide

FWIW.....My son attended a "Prospect" camp at a D1 school in mid-summer. One day event, coaching staff in attendance but no campus tour of any kind.

Two weeks ago he got a call from the head coach asking him to visit and saying he was a top target for his program.

Life: that is great. congrats to your son. I know that happens from time to time, and I know that some schools take their camps and the need to be honest with kids a lot more seriously than others. Glad you son got with one of those.

Also, I know of one school that said they were goint to come clean this year - don't know the result, but my son got a letter from a Big 12 school that admitted that in the past they had not taken many kids out of their camps [last year I believe it was one kid], but that they were going to shift their focus to their own camps. The letter even said something to the effect of "don't look for us at the other showcases, we'll be here running our own camps and hoping to recruit out of them." Don't know how that came out, but interesting to see one school at least purport to come clean.

I asked the question because I think, JMO, that really good recruiters use all resources available, their camp, tournaments, showcases, lists, whatever we have discussed previously to find and seek out the best players to fit their program. If they find 1 player, that's great, if they find 13 that's even better. I know of one school here in Florida that recruits exclusively from their camp. There are probably some that don't recruit at all from their camp. To say they all are out to make money is not correct.
Camps are important for coaches that they provide added revenue to enhance their programs and sometimes support the staff that is unpaid (volunteer coaches). It's all in perspective, a parent of a younger player sends their son to camp for instruction, a parent of an older recruit may send their player in the hopes that he may get noticed and get a "feel" for the facilities,staff and campus.
I never sent mine to a camp, but our situation was different. I also believed it was all about the money. But I am hearing more and more stories that players are offered opportunities after attending camps.

Scenerio: if a parent has sent his son to a showcase, noticed by a coach and sent recruiting material (including camp brochures), then decides to send his son to the camp and gets an offer, I would say parent has used his recruiting budget wisely.

In the end, isn't that what it is all about?

Baseball is Life:

That's great!

Now, think how much easier that coach's job would be now, if he had taken advantage of the opportunity to make a strong impression on that recruit when he had the boy right there on his campus last summer.

At this point, that coach has no idea whether he's even in the running with that boy or not.

My point above was, how much difficulty would it add to a camp you're already running, to do the little things that get folks interested in you?

Answer: It's just not that hard. And if you don't do them, you leave folks with the impression that you really don't care much.

Good recruiters know that it's not just about finding talent. It's about finding talent and then getting them to want to come to your school. How can a coaching staff ignore the second phase of that and hope to succeed?

One of the things I made sure I did was get a accurate account of what schools will be there. Most of these camps or showcases advertise who has attended in the past or put up this huge list of invitees. I have found out this out the hard way with the first showcase my son attended. Most of the advertised schools were not there and the ones that were there had representation by a student assistant. This was a national camp that is represented by a member on this site.

Can you be specific?

Irishtimes,
Was the camp run by the school or just located at the school. Some people think that when they attend a camp played at a school, the coaches would be there. I think there is a big difference between a coaches camp and a camp run by someone else.

I am wondering if by chance this is why the NCAA has put rules into place. If I was spending money for my son to go to a camp on the campus of ABC school but run by XYZ organization I would certainly be UPSET if ABC coaches were not there, being tole they would be. I might even be a parent that might go complain to the NCAA!

Could be fraud depending on how it was presented.

irishtimes, You bring up a very good point. In regards to showcases or camps, the printing will often read "schools invited" which is far from being who will ATTEND. Some camps/showcases will tell you who has committed if you call them. Even then though, there can be changes because a coach can end up with a conflict and might have to choose something else to do on that day. It is very unfair of a program to host a camp though and not have their own coaches there. That would make most parents very upset!