Push-off with the back leg???

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
What you are seeing is an adjustment to the ball coming inj not a push. The stride which I always had a big one but most teach to have a short one requires a shift and the back leg colapses slightly.
Once the front leg is down it just rotates as does the back foot. I always had as little lower body movement after striding as it set up the stable support of my upperbody as I swung the bat Too much movement makes it hard to make proper contact which is the most important thing when hitting a ball.
The back leg reacts to the force applied to the ball. The front leg is stationary and forms a 45% angle after impact giving you max power.
If you push off the back leg you will have problems with contact. The weight of the body is kept back.

I agree with what you are saying. I only use the word "push" in the context of this thread. Although it seems everyone has a different way of defining and using that word. I hate using that word too.

The better word to describe what's happening in the back hip is "resistance". There is tension there in the muscles. It may or may not always result in movement. Muscles can do work without changing joint angles. I hope Quincy has figured this out.

I talk to a lot of MLB pitching coaches and every one says that pushing off the rubber is a big myth. Yes the leg colleses but if it was pushing off it would straighten out again. The back leg has a part in the forward motion but it is a huge mistake to tell a pitcher to push off the rubber. I have several analysis of Tims motion and he doesn't push off the rubber.The power is delivered out front when his upper bady uncoils. I used to pitch Fast ball and you would think that you push off the rubber. Not even close. It was my front leg that took the punishment. When I finished a game my front leg was usually sore because it set up the release of my power as it straightened out. I also pitched BB as well and neither leg really felt sore after a game. My post foot collapsed, my hips rotated and my weight was back supported by the read leg. When I started forward the front leg was bent back and as I uncoiled the rear leg dragged slightly allowing me a stable base for the release of my power as the upper body did its thing. The front leg took the brunt of the pressure. That doesn't mean the back leg didn't play into the throw but it didn't push off. Tim accually reminds me of a fast ball pitcher with his gigantic stride. He also wraps back more than most because he is extremely flexible.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
"The only difference between the baseball swing and the golf swing is the stride."

- Babe Ruth

Nothing about the back leg.

I never played stick ball with Williams, Ruth or Bonds.

A couple of things about this. One, on a drive, does the club travel up through the ball or down through the ball? Two, are you saying the back leg does nothing during the golf swing?

I do believe the mechanics of the hips and core are very similar. The only major difference is the swing plane.

quote:

The swing process is only to the 'plane' of contact.

To me, everything before the commitment to the ball is just preparation to swing. There are many, many ways to get to this point. However, there is one that is more efficient for power and average and that is the swing of Ted Williams in the latter years of his career. There are also several who have different variations of that swing, but his is most efficient. Some of the variations are Babe Ruth, Lou Gerhig, Stan Musial, Gary Sheffield, Jimmy Foxx. Exact replicas are Barry Bonds and Josh Hamilton.

If you want to learn to hit or teach hitting, watch film of those hitters and try to duplicate them with your own swing. Figure out what they are doing and why. What does it do to your swing?

quote:

Yes the leg colleses but if it was pushing off it would straighten out again.

The key is to hold your weight on it WITHOUT straightening it until the last possible moment. Resist the turn until the last moment.

quote:

I'd ask you here if you've ever tried the playground ball? It is more of a presure on the ball with the knees and then, at some point, naturally, the ball will drop.

Coach,

Are you talking about a kickball like they use in Elementary school?

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

quote:

I'd ask you here if you've ever tried the playground ball? It is more of a presure on the ball with the knees and then, at some point, naturally, the ball will drop.

Coach,

Are you talking about a kickball like they use in Elementary school?

Yes. The bigger of the two sizes that elementary schools use. Again, that is just a breakdown drill. I'm betting you know someone that has one of those balls so that you could give it a dry run yourself to see if it works for you. Like all drills, not all work for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

quote:

I'd ask you here if you've ever tried the playground ball? It is more of a presure on the ball with the knees and then, at some point, naturally, the ball will drop.

Coach,

Are you talking about a kickball like they use in Elementary school?

Yes. The bigger of the two sizes that elementary schools use. Again, that is just a breakdown drill. I'm betting you know someone that has one of those balls so that you could give it a dry run yourself to see if it works for you. Like all drills, not all work for everyone.

I tried it with a flat s****r ball tonight and can see where it would be helpful if I had the actual playground ball. It gets the feeling of turning to open the hips.

The back leg push happens after the back leg load and before the hips turn and the back foot is pulled. Look earlier. The push happens to get the hitter to hit into his frontside and not on his backside.look earlier. earlier than the turn. earlier.

quote:

but if it was pushing off it would straighten out again.

This is just not true. There can be push without the limb gong straight.

Some pics from a similar discussion:





Now, what are your conclusions based upon this slow motion video of 3 hitters?

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Some pics from a similar discussion:





Now, what are your conclusions based upon this slow motion video of 3 hitters?

Coach,

The only things I see different are the length of stride, the amount of head movement. The guy in the bottom clip is much more over his front foot and is pulling his hips through instead of pushing his hips open. Middle guy pushes/rides back foot to start and then lands on a soft front knee and finishes the hip turn with a push back with his front leg. Pujols does all three. Oh...and he rotates into foot plant.

quote:

The back leg push happens after the back leg load and before the hips turn and the back foot is pulled.

Swingbuilder, so you mean the back leg push is to get the weight moving forward and not meant to, in any way, push the back hip open?

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Some pics from a similar discussion:





Now, what are your conclusions based upon this slow motion video of 3 hitters?

These clips are misleading. Again, they don't show the WHOLE swing as I mentioned about the Lee clip. Pujols' and A-Rod's front leg are already on the way down.

Why not show the WHOLE swing?

Watch ARod's back knee. Why would he do this if it wasn't to support a "push" of the back hip/leg?



Pujols' back knee?



What are you conclusions based on the WHOLE swing? As swingbuilder said, look earlier.

XV, do you agree the back leg push does not open the back hip?

I'm trying to figure out how all of this is done with physics, maybe its because I'm young and naive, but I've learned that without your back leg helping get your back hip forward, then you can not be successful. I recently sprained my ankle in the first inning of a game, and played the rest of the game. I sprained my right ankle, and ruptured a ligament in the outside part of my ankle. I finished the game 1-4 after getting that hit in the first inning. My swing was completely different because i could not put any weight on my right ankle (back side). If what you are saying is true, I would've had no problem at all swinging the bat the same as I did before. I didn't even make decent contact with the ball the rest of the game. Please tell me how this could happen if according to physics and everything you're saying then I should've been able to hit just like nothing had happened.

It seems you had a bum wheel, yet made no compensation for the shortcoming.

If you were to put your feet close enough to each other to give yourself a sturdy base, you may have had better luck.

May not have helped you beat out any grounders, but you'd be able to get the bat around with no problem.

I see the knee come forward slghtly then go back to add load to the back side to get more momentum and power as the weight shift begins and creates the push off.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

The back leg push happens after the back leg load and before the hips turn and the back foot is pulled.

Swingbuilder, so you mean the back leg push is to get the weight moving forward and not meant to, in any way, push the back hip open?

In my swing and in the swing I teach, the back leg does not push toward the Pitcher, the big toe raises the heel and pushes the back knee more toward the plate. The front knee loads the hips and the back hip helps to fire the hips. If you look at the clip of Bonds on page two of this thread, you will see the push of the front and back knee toward the plate.

IMO, the dropping of the front heel and the raising of the back heel, start the weight shift process and rotation and the swing finish it.

The only push is the resistance of the back leg to the back loading of the weight. It does this to stabalize the lower half and to keep the back leg from collapsing too far.
A true push would mean the foot would leave the ground. The lower half creates a stable base for the loading and unloading of the upper half.
It is necessary to have both legs functioning in thyeir roles to stablize the lower half to achieve max power.