Pushing Kids

I often had to drag mine to the field, then drag him off. I think it's just being a kid. I think what's improtant is what happens once he gets to practice; does he want to stop as soon as he can or is it just that he doesn't want to stop what he is doing or planning on doing.

I never pushed--he did as he felt like doing it--pushing them can only lead to turning them off

TR....have read your posts quite often and find you very knowledgeable and intelligent. I'm assuming you've raised some kids? I'm in that situation right now. I'm a high school coach who has an 11 year old son who isn't interested in playing baseball.

Just trying to figure out what to do. Make him play and hope he understands why I love it so much, or just let him come to his own decision to play....what I don't want to see is my son decide to play his freshman year of high school without playing for several years...I see enough of that now in our program. Has a coach ever cut his son? That'd make for some lovely family dinners....

Style

You're not alone in this. It's a very common issue today. There are just more distractions for kids these days and computer games is tops on the list with espn a close second. Girls are probably right there too. I've dealt with exactly the same thing with my 16 year old. He also has excellent grades at school but it was tough initially in his freshman year to get him to understand how important studying is. He finally got though and has been an A student since his second semester of his freshman year. The same persistance is required of parents when it comes to baseball.

Although some kids are able to focus 100% on baseball each and every day (they are the blessed few), most kids have great desire to do well in baseball and other sports they just get distracted. We as parents need to help them focus and understand success doesn't just happen you have to work hard.

I was also afraid of pushing too hard. It has taken literally hundreds of short but pointed talks about committment, desire, dedication, etc. to get him to understand. It's like muscle memory with pitching and hitting. If they do it enough, it becomes second nature. If they hear it enough, they begin to think that way without prompting.

Constant yelling and demanding more effort out of your son won't work. Calm discussions and parenting will.

TCB


If he doesnt want to play then let it be--he will find his way in pursuits that he likes

We have a 13 year old grandson who is not into sports but he is a history buff-- he travels with us when we visit PHILLY and DC and my wife takes him to see the things he likes in those histortical cities--would we like to see him into baseball--SURE!-- but he is not athletic and does not like the sport or too many sports for that matter.

There is place for kids with all likes--again as PG has said so many time--there is life outside of baseball

This is one topic I can't identify with... after school, my son stays on to take some additional BP. On the rare occasion when he does play video games, it's the new college baseball one.

Just want to point out, though, WE didn't DO anything! He just loves the game that much...

TCB1, play games with various types of balls. Example, my Daughter (12) sits on the sofa or floor and I bounce balls off of a coffee table. These balls are different. We make rules. One ball must always be tossed back and the other must be bounced back off of the coffee table. Then we progressed to "dive games." Then we progressed to "how many in a row." My Daughter's record is she caught 172 in a row on the dive game. We do this almost every night and sometimes do it just during commericals. However, she laughs and wants to do it. Also, there isn't any pressure at all. Kids sometimes don't want to play because they are afraid they can't measure up. Let him just have fun. Also, some kids will play if their friend plays. Set it up so that your son gets on a Little League Team with one of his friends. In the end, there will be a point where he will have to make that decision.

I believe when they are young (pre-pubescent) you need to encourage them to try different sports so they can "sample" and figure out what they might like. I believe you need to encourage them to practice on their own to get better. If they truly do not want to practice extra, stop pushing there and they can decide later whether they want to or not.

After they hit puberty and mature (usually starting in HS), it is really up to them to continue in a particular sport and to work extra in that sport to be as successful as their talent will allow.

JMO

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I was also afraid of pushing too hard. It has taken literally hundreds of short but pointed talks about committment, desire, dedication, etc. to get him to understand. It's like muscle memory with pitching and hitting. If they do it enough, it becomes second nature. If they hear it enough, they begin to think that way without prompting.

I have to agree with Missouri-BB-Dad. And I think there are MANY degrees of "push". I don't advocate forcing your son to play baseball but surely you can push him in the right direction. If you try to forcing him it will probably end his baseball. I also think there is only a short period in his life that you can do this. With my son it was very pronounced in the 8-12 age bracket and lessened until he was about a junior in high school at which time it completely disappeared. Mine has thanked me for doing it. Call it encourage, prompt, parent, direct, lure, entice, lead, train, coach, whatever but as a parent you have the ability to mold your child. Baseball or sports aren't unique. Piano lessons, Algebra, room cleaning, yard work, diet, car washing, loud radio, TV programs, and good vs. weird friends. The list goes on and on. Your job is to HELP your son. There has been more than one time that I have had a talk with my son about dedicating himself to baseball. My son wanted to work during high school and I asked him to "work" at baseball and I would basically subsidize his income. He did, I did, and it worked out fine.

Here are a couple of suggestions you might try:

“Turn off the video game son ---- Do you wanna long toss or help me rake leaves”?

“I bought you a new pair of batting gloves today--- Tell me how they feel”

“I hear somebody say that Smith boy had the best fast ball around. I think it was him and another boy I saw throwing at the park the other day.”

“We need your input, Mom and I can’t decide on whether to get you a soft toss machine or a piano.” (If he says piano you need to find another message board).
Fungo

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I'm all with TR, Missouri, and TCB on this one...Nice posts guys...

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I never pushed--he did as he felt like doing it--pushing them can only lead to turning them off

Same here.....The dream has to be carried by the player not only by the parent...IMO, pushing and forcing not only breaks down the communication process but also levels of mutual respect and trust...things that are going to be life threatning if not kept alive in the teenage years when the challenegs are bigger than if they play baseball or not...Have seen parents push, break down the communication process and pay a HUGE life price at a later date...

quote:

...they just get distracted. We as parents need to help them focus and understand success doesn't just happen you have to work hard.

I was also afraid of pushing too hard. It has taken literally hundreds of short but pointed talks about committment, desire, dedication, etc. to get him to understand. It's like muscle memory with pitching and hitting. If they do it enough, it becomes second nature. If they hear it enough, they begin to think that way without prompting.

Constant yelling and demanding more effort out of your son won't work. Calm discussions and parenting will

This post is worth putting on the refrigerator and living by....

Never thought of myself as a baseball or athletic father but rather a life skills coach, helping them understand the challenges, using whatever sport/activity they chose and had a passion for to understand the real challenges of life...

Comittment
Faith
Work ethic
Focus
Attitude
Teamwork
Effort
Courage
Humanity

This thing is much bigger than baseball...


44


This is why I believe in playing second sports...maybe a kid finds another sport more to his liking...maybe weight lifting appeals to his sense of self esteeem...another sport can also pave the way for baseball through fitness and some skill development (throwing, running, tracking balls...)

Fungo, your suggestions are exactly what I was looking for. Maybe I should have said "nudge" instead of "push". My son truly loves baseball (he also plays basketball but isn't nearly as passionate about that). His long term dream right now is to be the catcher at Georgia Tech. I know there are a ton of variables between now and then that could keep that from happening, but one thing for sure is that it's going to take a lot of hard work on his part to get to the level he needs to be at to even be considered by a program like that. I'm trying to keep him encouraged to work toward that dream without pushing too hard. I'd bet this is a pretty common situation, especially now with all the distractions available.

For some reason I just thought of one time I was pitching wiffle balls to him in the yard. I set up the scenario of a runner on second, and he needed to try hitting to the right side. We both kept getting more frustrated at each other, "Dad, I CAN'T hit it over there", "Sure you can, just keep trying", "But I CAN'T!!!". Finally I had a rare bit of inspiration and upped the ante - a quarter for every ball that went to the right side. All of a sudden you wouldn't believe how many balls went into the neighbors yard on the right.

quote:

This is why I believe in playing second sports...

O44, Should you push your son into that second sport? ----- Forgive me, I couldn't resist.

great answers,i agree with the gegree of pushing theory.but i think like tr says you can't make them.but my kids were around it from birth maybe that has something to do with it.no matter the subject there is or was a time they just wanted to be with us and do what we did.work on the car mow the lawn .that i think is the push that motivates and it grows from there.but i have been wrong before.bot i miss those times.

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Fungo...

The ironic thing is that you are more correct than you know...

baseball was actually a third choice!...but he turned it into his primary passion at about 15..

and now he's off at DI on their money...

Go figure...the world works in mysterious ways..


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Another way of pushing without pushing is, Make IT Fun. Us Dad's take the game too seriously.
When I was a kid, my cousin and I would have a blast throwing a wiffle ball, making it dance, falling on the ground laughter. Whiffle ball games were not only fun, but can be very productive.
I was cutting tree limbs in the yard one day when my son comes out and says, " How about if we hit a beach ball with a small tree trunk". I always used that one when a kid didn't hit. We proceeded to whack the beach ball with a 5 foot small limb until we tore up the ball. It was great fun. My son was 13 at the time.
CoachB mentioned the ball games off the coffee table. We would play in the pool, off the edge with a large rubber ball and keep score. We once played with a pencil and spit balls while we were waiting in an office for a doctors appointment. My kid would then go to a practice and tell his friends about it. When practice was over, they were looking for any knd of ball to hit with any kind of bat.
I say make it fun for those that take to the game, and for those who don't, Yes there is much more to life than baseball.

Thanks for all the input, TR and everyone else...

I know not playing sports is not the end of the world. I grew up being "pushed" into them by my dad...and he was my coach in EVERY sport in EVERY year, up until high school. I know I didn't always like it that much, but when he told me I would play a sport, I did.

And in the end, I grew to love several of them, and did very well. I was good enough to play small time college football, though not good enough to play college baseball. Eventually, as someone said, we all reach that point where we can't play anymore.

My son has played basketball, baseball, s***er, floor hockey, and wrestled. We hope to start a 5th and 6th grade football team in the fall and he says he wants to play. So it isn't like he avoids sports.

I guess when a child doesn't want to play sports, I'm afraid not that he will miss out on glory or awards, but that he'll miss out on the excellent lessons and teamwork that I learned from all my sports

So sometimes I wonder....did my dad have it right, driving me so hard until I picked it up myself? Or is it better as most modern day parents say, to just let the child decide on his own? We MAKE our child do their homework and clean their rooms, and eat their green beans because we KNOW those things are good for them and will make them better. Won't having your child participate in a team or individual sport teach them good lessons and keep them healthy and make tham a better person?

Trust me, I'm not saying I know, I"m just wondering how everything will turn out.....

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Coachric:
Another way of pushing without pushing is, Make IT Fun.[QUOTE]

My younger son had a coach one year that would fill up water balloons and pitch them to the kids to hit. Evenkids who hadn't hit a ball all day would hit th balloons.

Maybe he was on to something...

quote:

Do you wanna long toss or help me rake leaves?

Fungo that's a classic

My kid was the same.
He plays video every chance he gets. Didn't start working out on his own untill senior year. Loves 4 Hr practices and playing. He dosn't watch games unless his team or friends are playing. Never did anything extra until senior year. I left him alone and things have worked outvery well.

A little nudge now and then isn't too bad IMO but if you gotta push, it usually leads to pushing back and turning away.

Usually the need to push means the parent wants it more than the child. Not a good situation typically.

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HB....agree

Encouraging and making opportunities available without pushing is an art....and the best parents are artists...

BTW...

Make it fun?...

What a novel concept!...

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Wow…this is a tough topic. My first reaction is to never push a kid in athletics. I see parents do this more and more and it really concerns me. On the other hand, I do think its important to teach skills such as responsibility, dedication, hard work, etc. in whatever commitment the kid chooses to make.

We, too, had hundreds of talks with our boys about their responsibilities in athletics, but we always ended each conversation with, “If you don’t want to play this sport after this season, you don’t have to. It’s always your choice.” And we meant it. At times people thought we were letting them make the “mistake of a lifetime” when they chose one thing over another, but we always felt it was their choice to make.

Tomorrow our oldest son leaves for Spring Training. Every year since high school I’ve given him a card with a short note in it for encouragement before his season …and somewhere in that note I always put, “Remember, we would still love you if you didn’t play baseball.”

I still think it's important that he knows that.

TxMOM...

What a wonderful post...

TxMom,

Wonderful idea...I know your boy appreciates the thoughts.

Its not about pushing kids its about pushing Parents. Get involved i've been my sons coach since T ball. It becomes second nature to them to make the next level. For the last 5 yrs i pitch at least 300 balls to him a couple times a week. After little league i invested in a L net that is how hard he starting hitting. Get off the couch get the Family involved it's good excercise picking up balls. Now i have the pleasure of watching him crush the ball in High School. I still continue throwing to him just like Mickey Mantels father did.

scatpac, I think every parent and son have different experiences. I am pretty sure that for my health and my son's I never threw 300 balls to him a couple of times per week. At times, through my eyes, he was not showing as much interest as I thought he should, especially from ages 8-13. At times, through my eyes, he was wasting an awful lot of talent. He was very much like of lot of other boys described here...except he may have liked the video games even more...and still does.
By the time he was 15, he began to demonstrate that love of the game that hasn't gone away since. Just a personal view, but when our sons are young, I think we enjoy the experience more than they do. When it really gets fun is when the experience means more to them than it does to us. For me, that was his teenage years and luckily, now, much beyond that.

One last thought on this subject... we had the pleasure and honor of having Mr. Jim Sundberg (6-time American League Gold Glove catcher, a 3-time American League All-Star, and the 1985 World Series Championship catcher with the Kansas City Royals) speak at our baseball banquet a couple of weeks ago. During his speech, he said that when he was with the Texas Rangers, he took a poll of about 15 of his teammates about their own parents' involvement. He said that of the 15 players he polled... only 1 had overly pushy/aggressive parents. The remainder said their parents were always involved and supportive but never too pushy and certainly not negative.

While all of the posts here certainly do not indicate the "overly" category, I thought this point was worth passing on...

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This thread gets better and better...

TX mom...Great post. Teach the kids life skills, be a life coach...you'll be amazed at how often that thsoe skills will be applied in baseball without forcing...We had the same rule, "you choose" I support and counsel...Good luck to your son. What a thrill!...

Infield dad...I agree...I have come to believe that most players have an internal clock that tells them..."OK your growing lay back a little...Now kid, it's time, Run with it baby!!!..." Have seen it happen over and over. Have also seen kids burned out early by truly well meaning parents who did not trust that clock...have to encourage but have a sene of timing...

Scatpac...Sounds to me like a case of the right player with the right parent at the right time...I hope your son is loving every minute of you shared success...treasure every minute it is all over too fast...

MomandCPA...have had the opportunity to talk and sit beside at number of former pro players as they watched their kids play. I took the opportunity debrief them about how they developed their sons skills, and how they made the decision to send their players to the colleges they did, and I would echo your experience. One thing that I noticed is that they were all very close. Not just sharing the dream but engendering mutal respect, and enjoying each others company as people, as buddies not just as coach and prodigy. They never let baseball and success get in the way of the bigger picture...

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With my son and I, up to age 13, it was FUN. I figured out very quickly, that if I could turn a workout into some sort of game or competition, that JT, Jr would engage in the activity.

However, after the summer of his 8th grade year (and that year, I almost had to force him to tryout for the school team), he just "wanted to be a kid" and I sensed he NEEDED a break from the game. The next season, he came back refreshed and with renewed interest. As a parent, we need to be in tune with our sons and sense when to back off, and when to push, even though they might not want to be pushed (actually, more of a nudge).

momandcpa

I would have expected that result from MLB players. I don't speak from first hand experience but my guess is when a kid is as talented as I'm sure the MLB players-to-be were, parents don't have to assist their kids as much as lesser talented kids might need help. I'm sure the results of similar polls at the college and high school levels would be different. To use your Jim Sundberg example as a baseline, my guess is the "pushy parent" trend would be something like this:

MLB 1:15
College: 3:15
High School: 5:15
Little League: 7:15

The numbers are just a guess but I'm sure the trend is accurate.

StyleMismatch,
I found your post very interesting.
We often like to think our kids don't know as much as we do, because we are adults and have had those life experiences and often look back and say, I wish I had worked "harder". Wish we had been more committed. Whatever it may be, school, sports, our jobs, relationships, raising kids, we always hope that our offspring will have it better than we do, and help to teach them to be successful at what we might think they enjoy.
I don't think it works that way. As I always say, you can lead the horse to water but you can't make them drink. You cannot expect them to love or have the passion or committment for something like we might, they are their own persons and mature differently and sometimes have different goals than we do.

When my son was in middle school, I don't think he thought much about the seriuosness of his future in baseball. He wanted to be a baseball player someday, but I don't think he put much thought into how he was going to get there until he reached HS and even more so now at age 20. In middle school he loved participting in every sport and loved his videogames (still DOES). He didn't work "hard" at baseball back then, we didn't expect him to. Our main focus was school, as long as you did well in school you will be ok, just be a kid, have fun in whatever you were doing for the moment. He wasn't mature enough to be expected to have that drive that comes later on.
What we did realize was that he was very competitive, in everything he did, no matter what it was, had to be the "best" at whatever he did. Looking back, I beleive that competitive drive and inner motivation was the key, it wasn't all about loving the game as much as we would have liked him to.

I beleive in this great game, we can teach our sons to be better hitters, better fielders, better runners,better pitchers and better team mates. But you can NOT teach the intangibles that exist in the game, one of them being possessing the competitive spirit that comes from within. If it is there, it will emerge as your son matures and is able to focus on the reality of playing past LL, HS, college.

TPM...

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Just to clarify... Jim Sundberg polled the players on their parents' behavior throughout their life... not just at the point they were at then.

Personal note -- my husband played college football for the then National Champions in DII. His dad was one in the "very pushy" category. To this very day, he regrets the fact that his dad pushed him so hard... and, he eventually realized that playing football would only last so long. He always has supported our children and encouraged them but never overly pushed them as a result of his own experience. He has always felt that the game had to be fun... or they wouldn't stick with it!

TPM... I agree. Having two boys (ages 17 and 19), I can tell you from my experience, that the competitiveness comes from within. One of my boys always had the attitude of "you win some... you lose some." The other always feels like "I had better try and win them all". Both are equally as athletic.

Great post, TPM.

I don't think either of our sons "loved" baseball in middle school. They liked it, but in some ways thought it was kind of boring compared to football, s****r ... and video games. They played because their friends were playing and they had experienced some success on the field.

However, both have always been extremely competitive by nature. As their interests became more defined in high school, they made the choice to focus their competitive drive into baseball, which is probably what lead to their success and love of the game more than anything.

Just a thought.

Looking back, I think mine spent just as much time at the bowling alley or at the golf course in middle school than at the field. He was more determined to bowl a perfect game, get a hole in one than pitching a no hitter.

You can't make a horse drink, but if you fail to lead them to water, they can't drink even when they're thirsty and ready.

I say push 'em often and with great patience. Show them as many watering holes as you can...they'll drink sooner or later.

And they'll thank you someday.

Every child is different. Some need more encouragement than others. I would never say "leave him be if he's not interested". Particularly for boys in the 8-12 age group..they definitely need more direction to find interests. It's true some will just sit and play video games all day. A parent has a responsibility to nurture a healthy interest in the outside world. From many kids, it's not easy to leave the comforts of home and tech distractions for the world where you have to exert lots of energy, run around, get sweaty. We've driven that need to be physical out of a lot of boys by enforcing conformity and rigidity in schools. So I think a parent has to push "nature" a bit and not let their sons give up at the least adversity.

my son would have been on the road every weekend if I would have allowed it from 11-15 I would not allow that to happen because alot of these travel teams think they have pitching and dont. Kids end up throwing way to many innings unless they have a coach that doesnt mind to lose now and then....

wish you could convinve my wife of that she thinks I am killin my son.....Boy does he have it made..I remember what I had to do comeing up and it made me a better person...good post and thought texas