Putting together a 12U traveling team

FYI... The qualifier tournament begins June 11th so it would be played DURING the LL season. Some kids may have to miss one LL game depending on their schedule.

Jason

Flippj,

Very good idea. Usually the local league does not care if you have a select team as long as you play in the rec league also.

In our local area, you could only practice your select team on the rec fields if those players played in the rec as well. They claimed it was due to insurance reasons, however it made no difference if we bought our own, they still wouldn't allow it. Just check with your local league.

The other thing is when all-stars starts, you will have to let your players go until all-stars is over, including no select practices.

If your players miss rec games for select then that's when the controversy begins and it can get real ugly. The league officials always say rec comes first. That why it is a good idea to get out of rec and into select. The two don't mix well.

Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!

I went through this scenario several years ago. You will inevitably run into conflict with the LL and have some grumbling parents....but who cares?
I continue to support LL but the reality is that for the more talented kids LL is no place for development. If you want to develop the players they have to play club, select...whatever your semantics are.
Prepare to have your noses bloodied on the playing in the first year. Watching the kids improve before your eyes makes it all worthwhile.

Until about 4 years ago our house/rec league coaches would put together "tournament" teams to play against better competition. The kids were also required to play in the rec league and were not allowed to skip rec games for tournaments.

Then a coach of a 13 year-old team (also a Board member) approached the Board with the idea of sanctioning a travel team on a one season trial basis. It was approved. The kids still registered through the rec league, paid a higher fee, practiced and played at least half of their games at home, participated in all fundraisers, etc. but did not have to play a rec schedule.

Since then age groups 11-14 are allowed to play a travel schedule rather than the rec. The coaching has been better for the most part and the level of competition has been much better. It allows families a choice if their child has the ability and the interest. There will always be some grumbling, especially about tryouts. Our league has tried to avoid some of that by using non-parents as evaluators.

We're still struggling to find non-parent coaches for all the age groups but we're making some progress.

Sounds like a great idea. You may run into resistance on the LL Boards, though, because it creates something that's outside of their control. Particularly if the LL Board members kids aren't on the team. Try kissing up a lot - that usually helps. A local league around here once tried to "ban" any kid who played in another program from participating in the LL program. A few calls to higher up the LL organization put a stop to it that time (that conflicts with LL national policy) but they did it again a few years later with a new board, and the player's families didn't bother to fight it. Some things never change.

D'oh!

You need to be careful about some new rules LL has this year. Once their LL all-star team has played it's first game the kids aren't allowed to play on any other team until they are out of the tournament.

Also anyone who manages or coaches a team in another program is ineligible to manage or coach a LL touranment team. This rule is ill-defined and many of us are trying to get further clarification from LL but it is something to be aware of.

I agree with Rbinaz. When our kids were 10 we ran into conflicts with the league and ended up going out on our own.

Its too difficult to split between rec ball and select ball anyway due to the drastically varying levels of play and schedules.

Trying to pick a team between leagues is bound to step on toes, etc. and will cause you many headaches to deal with rather than focusing on coaching.

If your son has the competetive drive, talent, and ambition, get him on a select team or start one. Rec ball is simply "rec" ball. If they are serious players by age 10 or 11 they should be playing tournaments with MLB (open base)rules.

I would suggest you select the team based on quality of the parents as much as the quality of the player. Just some free advice.

Several things to consider:

1. Roster size. 10-11 and that's all. Parents become very concerned about playing time when they are shelling out big bucks.

2. Every player needs to be able to play multiple positions and as many pitchers as possible. Pitching really becomes a factor at tournaments.

3. The fewer parent coaches the better. It can become daddy ball very quickly if you are not careful.

4. Understand the money up front. The parents, coaches, et al need to understand the financial commitment associated with select teams such as registration fees, uniforms, equipment, hotels, etc. It can rule out some players in a hurry.

Here is a great link that may help you on the SC AAU page.

I hope that this helps!

Thanks for all the replies so far.

redbird5, very good advice. It's something that has crossed my mind. I know one kid for sure will be left home because of it.

The National Qualifier is the weekend of June 11th so the players on the team would potentially have to miss one LL game. The team would only be brought together for that tournament. We would not play in any other tournaments unless we placed well enough to play in the AAU or USSSA National tournament.

The (12U) AAU National tournament is being held here in Minnesota. It runs July 25-31. This could potentially conflict with All-Stars should the players on those teams advance past State.

Our town doesn't have a select team until below the age of 13. LL is VERY strong in this area and there are a number of talented kids playing. I'm doing some research to see if putting a team together for one possibly two tournaments is worth the hassle.

Any other thoughts/experiences?

Jason

My 14U team has been doing this for 3 years now. This makes it sound successful, but it was not initially. As 12's, we had a lot of conflicts with LL as all the players were on different teams with different game days and practice days. We also were not very competitive. We had as much talent, but because we didn't practice together enough we did not gel as a team like the AAU teams did. Starting last year, at 13, in our town the 13's drop way down in rec ball numbers - our team was able to play together all year in both LL and AAU. As aresult we were able to practice together without conflicts and became very successful in both worlds. I believe you will find yourself in a similar situation, talented but not competitive.

http://www.highviewheat.com/index.asp

http://www.kristensfastpitchworld.com/index.asp

Our youth baseball was non LL affiliated simply because we did not need them not did we want them and their absurd rules and regulations.

We played a regular season with playoffs etc and then selected a travel team for the summer which was not sponsored by the Rec in town-- I ran it with a few other dads and we would play and practice into August giving the kids some 30 added games as well as at least two practice sessions a week. We even ran our own tournament

I totally agree with REDBIRD-- make sure you have the right parents with you or it can be a nightmare and also keep the roster down so you do not having playing time problems.--We had 12 to 15 kids with us depending on who was away for a few days vacation. We also knew the kids vacation schedule ahead of time so before we began play we knew who would be where and when and we never had less than 12 players at a game.

Just a few thoughts from my memory bank

TRhit

Why worry about LL? Do select only. If they are good enough to be competitive in select, they don't need to be playing in LL where the competition will be significantly weaker.

And I don't recommend doing both select and LL. Trying to do two teams means one or the other gets the short end of the stick. And the time load can get to be a bit much for the boys and their families.

One practice per week for that age group is not very helpful.

Again, why do LL and play at a lower level? Let them play at a higher level of competition. They will be better players for it. And they will enjoy it more.

Usually people keep one foot in LL because the parents are tied to the LL (socially). Or the parents say "Johnny wants to play with his friends". I've found Johnny does just fine making a new set of friends from his select team.

Personally, I have never known anyone who left LL for select that had any regrets.

"Show me a guy who can't pitch inside and I'll show you a loser." Sandy Koufax

Texan -

Don't know about other parts of the country, but your views parallel my experiences in Central Texas.

Rec ball has a place, select ball has a place. The kids need to be challenged to make progress, if they are dominating in league ball then they should probably be playing select ball. If the are dominating in 12U select, move them up to 13U.

I have my son in LL and also a travel team sponsored by LL also, I am the mananger for both the in house and travel team. I would most definitely only play travel ball and not LL, but our problem is the only travel league on Long Island plays only Sunday doubleheaders. That is not enough ball in my opinion. My son is 10 and I figure that with LL ball also, then he gets to play 3 days a week, though that Sunday is where the real competiton is.

Be prepared to see the best 12 year old teams in the country. It is unbelievable how good some of these teams are!

Good Luck! I'm sure you will do great.

FlippJ

Can you give us an update? I am curious what you decided to do.

Re-reading the thread, it seems that you only intended to play in one tournament. Is that true? You should try to play in a few before the National Qualifier. Believe me, your team may get "waxed" a few times before they start to play well together.

R.

I still haven't made a decision. Part of me really wants to do this but it will cause problems with the Little League. The President of the LL is against traveling ball. He's more into the "community" type leagues, which isn't a bad thing, but it could definitely make life difficult for the players I select for the team.

I have time though and have been talking regularly with the local AAU/USSSA rep so I haven't given up on the idea just yet.

I'll keep you posted.

Jason

Flippj

You ARE LUCKY as one of the BEST tournaments in the country is the AAU 12U in Burnsville and Lakeville... I'm sure you can talk to the Minnesota Youth Athletic Services, or Burnsville or Lakeville baseball associations.. and they will have a lot of opinions.....

But... be prepared... very few REC leagues have the insight to realize they don't provide what is needed for the TOP competitors. REC leagues are created to make everyone equal... unfortunately quite often they do this by pulling the better players DOWN. But then All-stars arrive and everything changes...

Why... now... you can even get yourself on ESPN TV...

But if you really want to develop the top kids... they have to play with and against TOP competition. I've yet to see a rec league that provides that...

Unfortunately, these days with the proliferation of "Travel" teams... the competition levels are not what they used to be (at least in my neck of the woods)in the younger ages... (14U and younger)


But do go and check out Burnsville....

Flipp:

I would do it. What you describe is very similar with the way most teams here in AZ do it. But if you are uncomfortable, you essentially are at the end of the part of LL that matters and I imagine you will be off on your own beginning next fall anyway. Best of luck.

I will close by saying that, especially in MN, the more baseball they play the better off they are, especially where the opportunities are so severely limited by the weather.

Not sure how familiar you are with youth baseball in Minnesota but the area we live in is known for producing some pretty good teams/players.

I have spoken to the head of MYAS (several times) because at one point I was deciding whether or not to put my son on a neighboring traveling team. In fact, this person is the one that suggested to me to put together a team for the AAU 12U national qualifier.

I still have time and if I can get the players I'll have a team. If I get the players I want we'll be able to compete with, at the very least, the other Minnesota teams.

Thanks for the advice.

Jason

(edited: Just saw your post jemaz. I hadn't quite thought about being at the end of the LL run. Good point. Very true about the weather factor as well.)

I agree with Flipp. I took a 12u team up to Burnsville two years in a row. My younger son played up one year and the next year when he was actually 12 we went again. The AAU nationals for 12u have been held there for several years and they do an awesome job putting it on. The first year we finished 11 and the next 7th. We actually played a team from Minnesota one year. You need to make sure that you play D-1 because the competition of the D-2 teams is not nearly as competitive. Flipp were you with the San Diego Stars?

Sorry Flipp that last question about the San Diego Stars was for SDBB.