Question for the coaches out there.

I truly have no idea of even what to say.  At no point does any of this make any sense to do.  I cannot think of any valid reason to justify this.

Stuff like this is what gives people reason to bash all HS coaches.

Ok, normally I would just add my +1 to coachs' statement, but today Ive decided to play Devils Advocate...so hear is my question: Is it possible that abcd, has sometime during the game, or very recently done or said anything that has warranted some "humbling"?

Again, Devils Advocate...just sayin...lol

Fair question lhd,

Not only has ABCD never done or said anything to warrant "humbling" - he is a work horse and a good, quiet kid - but HC has done a similar (but not nearly as vocal) thing several times this season when he has let a kid get almost into the batter's box before subbing him out. It happened to my 2015 once before and when it happened, we just chalked it up to a lot on the coaches mind and maybe he was giving another kid an at bat and forget to say it at the half inning....but after several times...it seems to be his MO.

There nis a LOT we don't know. Was this a conference game? If so, how important was a win? Is the 2016 someone HC needs to count on next year? I could see, in a non-conference game late in the season, wanting to see 2016 in a pressure situation at the plate. It may be a game that has little strategic importance and I need to get a sense of what I have next year. Or it could just be a stupid move.

Ok, then just add my +1 to what coach said.  It doesn't sound like there is any plausible reasoning behind the move.  To me it says that the HC gets to caught up in the game and forgets what he wants to do, or just doesn't know what he wants to do thus asking the Asst C who should hit.  Just bad form

It was a league game - mid-season here in NY.  Important to win - which we did, by the way, in the 11th inning with a walk-off single by our #9 hitter (great for him!).

To me the thing was mind-boggling, which is why I posted it to see if I was way off on this one.

I don't think anybody bashes ALL HS coaches.  But this guy is definitely in the team picture. 

I don't think ABCD should feel at all dejected or embarrassed.  The coach should be.  He looks like the fool.  And everybody knows it.  He made the "legend" of ABCD grow -- he most likely would have hit a grand slam to put the game out of reach. 

Poor judgement on head coaches part two-fold.  First, obviously he hadn't planned on getting a rally going to win or he would have looked ahead to let pinch hitter know.  I don't think either kid benefitted from this situation.  The pinch hitter could have been notified at the beginning of the inning to get loose, and the senior got embarrased in front of everyone.  Second, calling across to the assistant should have let everyone know that the head man didn't want any part of making a game winning or losing situation.  The word 'Gutless' comes to mind.  But, next week the same hitter will be expected to go to the mound and win a game that may help the coach keep his job.  I don't have a problem with the ph decision, but poorly handled. 

As a HS coach here is my opinion, if in fact this is the whole story.  In no way shape or form do you do that.  This is a move that is done prior to the kid ever leaving the dug out.  In my opinion you do not pinch hit unless you get the pinch hitter in the on deck circle to warm up properly and to save the player from embarrassment.  This is a move that needs to be explained to the kid.  This players are still children and have emotions that at time they can not control, both physically and mentally.  You are in a situation where you need a child to continue to play in an important game and they need to know that you made the change for a valid reason and you still trust them.

If I'm going down I'm going down with my best 9 on the field. There is no reason to PH for a kid who is 2-3 on the day... unless those 2 were weakly hit seeing eye grounders or fisted off flares and I needed a ball in the gap. Even then I, personally, wouldn't have made a change there without some pre-planing. 

Late in games if you as a coach aren't running every situation through your head and preparing for them then you are doing your team a disservice. 

This exact situation happened in my son's game.  He was the 2014 Senior is one of the top 3 hitters on the team.  Coach took him out before he left the dugout though.  Freshman looked at 3 straight strikes, inning over.  Who knows what the coaches where thinking (my son's is a complete idiot) but at the end of the day it really isn't a big deal.  It does however, have the potential to have negative impacts on the confidence of the senior who you may need to call upon later in the season.  He now thinks you lack confidence in him and that isn't good.

Coach coaching is so much more than X's and O's, its about motivating people to perform and their best.

Another discussion is even the pinch hitter in general.  Who do you go with, the kid that has 2 crappy at bats but has seen the pitcher twice all ready or the pinch hitter?  It is a tough call.

I agree regarding the pinch hitter. ABCD's first hit was a clean single up the middle and his second was well hit deep in the hole at SS and he beat the throw to 1st.  Also the starting pitcher was still in the game for the away team...

Some coaches are weak regarding their ability to communicate and show respect for players. The first time the coach showed up my son I was livid. I stood quietly on the sidelines with smoke coming out if my ears and blood coming from my eyes. I said nothing but "no comment" to anyone who commented about the situation. 

After seeing it happen to other kids, the second time it happened to my son I shrugged and told people life goes on. The second time was when blood should have been coming from my ears and eyes. The coach criticized my son in the newspaper for not having the year he had junior year. He was coming back from surgery when he was supposed to miss the season. He was hitting over .400 with less power.

As you can see there are some things you don't forget. But you keep your mouth shut and roll with it.

Bad coaching for sure but did u say u wanted to bring to AD attention?  Why? No good will come of that.

let Sr player take his displeasure to coach and say coach I have no problem being subbed for, but it was embarrassing how it was done. What's coach going to do bench #1 pitcher?  parents should stay out of it. Players a sr and can handle it.

Then, yes - "mind boggling." The fact pattern just sounded to me initially like he might be coaching a "throw away" game.

Have to agree.  This is not something you approach the AD over.  Stay out of it. 
Poorly handled.

My son had a similar situation last year at the college level.  He hadn't batted well that game (was 0-2 with a BB) - but he's known for really driving the ball.  It was in the late innings, team down by one, runners in scoring position with 2 outs.   Walk up song is played and he is announced by the PA as the next batter.  Just before he enters the box, coach calls time and inserts a PH.  Son was not mad that he inserted a PH, but mad because coach had waited until he was about to enter the box. (PH grounded out to end the inning).

The only odd thought I have for the situation the OP described is maybe the sr was not good in clutch situations.  Hard to tell without really knowing the players.

The bell curve:  10% of all baseball coaches are way below average.   The coach in question sounds like a bottom 10%-er. .

In the original post I said, "The HC is in his 4th year and the assistant is in his 2nd. Both are very young and I thought about making the AD aware of what happened to hopefully make this a teachable moment."

What I meant by making the AD aware of it had nothing to do with the pinch hitting situation and everything to do with yelling across the diamond to his assistant coach, essentially abdicating his authority To me (and many others there), this showed complete incompetence.  For the record - I have not and will not bring it up to the AD.

I really do appreciate the posts and I also can't tell you all how incredibly helpful this website and the wealth of knowledge has been to me, my son and my family while we are on this wonderful journey.

I always tried to keep track of who's on deck and who's in the hole. I knew who I wanted up in a pressure cooker situation, and so did my Assistants. Sometimes one of my coaches would ask me if I was gonna let abcd hit or not if he came up, so they could get a hitter ready. When I'm really on top of things I might tell a kid at the beginning of the inning that he will hit for wxyz. But the coach was setting himself up for failure on this move in front of everyone to hear.

Some coaches excel in certain aspects of coaching and are weak in others. It's a matter of how it nets out. From the second situation in my previous post while I was ticked my son's attitude was "So what. It's the way he is."

Dadof15: This is so extraordinary that I'm hoping you'll fill in some blanks. Not because I doubt your post, but it does beg for more detail. So indulge me?

Home game, bottom 6 losing 4-3,bases loaded, 2 outs. Player 2014, a 4-year starter is 2-3 on the day.  

Where was he hitting in the lineup?

HC calls out, across the diamond, to assistant coach "Hey- do you want ABCD to hit or WXYZ (a 1st year varsity 2016 on the bench)...it's your call."  

Can you think of any LOGICAL reason for this? Lefty-righty? ABCD chokes frequently with RISP? Horrible last at-bat? ANYTHING?

WXYZ looks at 3 pitches - K's looking.

Is this young man a horrible hitter? Does he have a lot of at-bats? A good avg.? Have his parents been bitching to HC? Was this the HC's way of saying, "See?" Again: What's your best guess?

From my isolated perch down the left-field line I could hear the entire exchange. I could also hear many parents standing behind home saying that it was really poor coaching to "embarrass" one of your seniors like that.  

Don't be offended, but I've never been to a ballpark where I could hear parents behind home plate when I was 'down the LF line,' especially if I was isolated. This seems odd.

This is one of several things HC has done this season which could be looked at as either embarrassing or showing a lack of confidence in his players.  

Can you give a couple more specific examples?

The players are starting to talk about it and so are several parents. I fear that it is having a very negative effect on morale.

Parents complaining? Welcome to HS baseball. Boys complaining? Would love to hear more.

The HC is in his 4th year and the assistant is in his 2nd.  

What's their record?

I thought about making the AD aware of what happened to hopefully make this a teachable moment.

This implies that you've assessed the AD and concluded he'll understand. Given that they won the game, he might turn it around on you - particularly if there are things you don't know, which is possible. You ready for that?

The game was important to win - which we did, in the 11th inning.

Did the stud re-enter? Was he a factor? What about the sub? Obviously your son's team tied it in the 7th. Would love to hear a little more here.

Good point.

I hope this helps to make the picture clearer.

Take out the yelling and the same thing happened to 2016 tonight.He was 1-1 on the nite with a sac. fly and 3 RBI.He was @ 4-5 feet away from box and was called back.It was not a tight situation like OP had on their hands.I played thru H.S. ball and can't remember any time of being P.H. for and not being told in the dug out.

A reason why.....may not be this guy's reason, but just an example of why things get done....

ABCD had two hits against a guy throwing 78. Closer comes in throwing 90. ABCD is a great contact hitter against slower/off speed pitching but does not have the athletic ability to hit the harder pitcher.  WXYZ does have that ability, but not the experience.

He may not have handled it well by yelling across the field at the last minute....

I try to tell my PH as well as any PR and the one he will hit or run for before that 1/2 inning, but then again a good coach knows his players.  I have had kids on the bench that would get overly nervous knowing they were going to be put on the spot to come up with the clutch hit, but tell them last minute and they did not have time to think about it.

Crap, I have even had an awesome starting pitcher that way. If he had to sit around before the game waiting, nerves got the best of him. So, we started letting him go through pre-game at short stop and he would pitch lights out....

He is young and he will hopefully learn how to handle the situation better.

You can look at what a coach is from many different angles.  Here's a fun angle that can be good to remember when you see things like this...

He has 15-20 kids and three or four wives.  He works a full time job and has "custody" of a few other kids and another wife at home.  He has to maintain the yard at both homes and at least one is really big.  For his family of 20, he has to have a good plan in place every day, assuring his kids have a safe environment, play nicely and be productive.  His real-time parenting is always out in front of the public eye on a reality show.  Often, he is scrutinized by many close relatives who want nothing but to have their favorite nephew get most of the attention and play time.  On many days, he must have his kids play nice with another family of 20 who's primary goal is to physically and mentally antagonize his kids. 

As much as they try and as much as they care, they are not always going to be able to give each kid the time and attention they would like to.  They are not always going to do or say just the right thing just the right way at just the right time. 

and he has a dad that most of the relatives complain to if their favorite nephew doesn't get most of the play time.

"a true story"

Many years ago, Michigan State was playing Western Michigan in a non-conference game.

Situation: 9th inning two outs, winning run on 3rd base, MSU [College Worlds Series team] down one run. The coach - John Kobs was a legend among college coaches, called for a pinch hitter after the batter had two strikes.

The pinch hitter hits the 1st pitch over the fence unto the railroad tracks for a two run HR to win the game.

"Always be ready"  Study the pitcher. Opportunities do exist!

Bob

I think this thread has run its course. I appreciate the varied and substantive replies.  I really appreciate all the coaches who took the time to think about and respond to the issue presented.

I wish all a great rest of the season!