Question on loading...

Roger,

I just wrote an article this weekend for my 12YO team. Of course, we discussed loading w/ them, demo'ed, showed them some MLB clips next to them first. Then gave them the article after practice as a take-home for them and their parents.

When I get home in a couple hours, I'll post it for you.

Just my 2 cents, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
When we talk about a batter loading, what is he loading? I always thought the load was a shoulder "thing" but in another thread the poster said his coach was having him load his hips.

Loading the hips would seem to put slack in the core muscles while loading the shoulders would stretch the core muscles and put them in a position to immediately contract allowing the batter to be quicker to the ball (assuming other proper mechanics).

Roger,

I completely agree with your logic.

The point of the load is to take advantage of the Stretch Shortening Cycle and stretch a muscle (or group of muscles) before you contract it. As a result, loading (or reverse-rotating) the shoulders make sense because it stretches the muscles of the torso and hips before you ask them to pull the shoulders around. If you were to load, or reverse-rotate, your hips before you swing, then you wouldn't do anything useful.

It wouldn't necessarily be bad, but largely useless.

In laymans terms the hips load then the shoulders are loaded as the hips shift forward/open into foot plant creating the x factor. The focus should not be on loading the shoulders...Also, segmentation is critical during the unload. Hopefully Swingbuster chimes in here as he does an excellent job of explaining this process in detail.

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad:
In laymans terms the hips load then the shoulders are loaded as the hips shift forward/open into foot plant creating the x factor. The focus should not be on loading the shoulders...Also, segmentation is critical during the unload.

I don't think this is the common definition of loading. Instead, what I think you are describing above is more usually defined as unloading.

I define loading as a preliminary or counter movement that stretches the muscles before they contract (or unload). Examples would be the backswing in a golf swing.

The idea is to take advantage of the Stretch Shortening Cycle (aka Countermovement).

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
When we talk about a batter loading, what is he loading? I always thought the load was a shoulder "thing" but in another thread the poster said his coach was having him load his hips.

Loading the hips would seem to put slack in the core muscles while loading the shoulders would stretch the core muscles and put them in a position to immediately contract allowing the batter to be quicker to the ball (assuming other proper mechanics).

Roger,

I completely agree with your logic.

The point of the load is to take advantage of the Stretch Shortening Cycle and stretch a muscle (or group of muscles) before you contract it. As a result, loading (or reverse-rotating) the shoulders make sense because it stretches the muscles of the torso and hips before you ask them to pull the shoulders around. If you were to load, or reverse-rotate, your hips before you swing, then you wouldn't do anything useful.

It wouldn't necessarily be bad, but largely useless.

I would not use the saying "reverse rotating", as with the hips it is more of a small co*king action and with the shoulders it is much the same.I also don't believe that the hips pull the shoulders around either.
As far as loading either one, the hips are loaded before the swing starts. The shoulders are loaded just after the player starts co*king the bathead.

Of course, bbscout is right: the hips load/c0ck before the shoulders. It's subtle, but it's there.

You can see it this Loading Sequence article (Word doc).

I'm still trying to figure out how to teach this to 12YOs, but I'm pretty comfortable in saying "there's a big difference between when amateurs load their hips and shoulders vs. pros".

Sandman

Couldn't get the sequence to open??? peace Shep

Pain, What I provided was the sequence...

Furthermore, the emphasis should not be on shoulder load which should occur more natuarally with the hands staying back and finding the ideal launch position during weight shift/uncoiling.

Also, the shoulders don't necessarily counter-rotate, it's more of a stretching action that creates resistance.

The cue I've tried to use with my son is the load begins in the lower body and rolls it's way up the body.

The unload/uncoil also begins in the lower body and rolls it's way up the body. That has evolved from the attempt to break him of the "shoulder first" approach to uncoiling.

The shoulder load is a tension free tilt around the spine that occurs naturally as the rear arm raises and the top hand's thumb tilts downward while maintaining what becomes the box. It allows the shoulders to remain tension free as the core uncoils, and the hands begin their rotation into the swing plane. That in turn, allows the shoulders to follow the hands into proper shoulder tilt.

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Sandman

Couldn't get the sequence to open??? peace Shep

Hi Shep,

Do you have Microsoft Word installed? If not, here's an HTML version.

Sandman

Yes I do have Microsoft Word installed In fact, their new operating system came out today. You're the best Sandman!

That is the best anaylsis I've seen in a while!!!
Nice work indeed. Can I borrow these clips for posting sometimes? They definite prove some of my beliefs in the load and unload. peace shep

Thanks Shep. Feel free to borrow them at will; public domain (for now ) Just copy them to your hard drive in case I delete them from my space at some point. And feel free to post a link to my article; I'll try to leave it out there awhile, as it doesn't take up much space.
http://members.cox.net/msanda/Loading%20Sequence.htm

Regards.

Oh, BTW, here's the animated version of the pro images in the article:
Loading Sequence

It's on a bit of a long pause because I made it to show to my team and discuss a few seconds at each of the 4 frames.

Thank you Sandman. The animated version was also very good. So good that I set those clips on my active desktop You should help some of the uneducated hitters out there across the country and write a book with the illustrations included. I would buy several or even help you sell them at bookstores. I could market your hitting beliefs because it is what I believe also. peace shep

Thanks Shep!

Sandman,

Those are some excellent clips and notes thereof.

Keep up the good work.

Longtime Player now Longtime Observer

Sandman,

Nice work ! Don't know if you'll find it helpful but with our kids at that age group and below we call the shoulder load the "rock the baby" move to help them from the dreaded bar arm move many were taught in machine pitch and/or needed to perform to swing a bat too heavy for them. This cue helps maintain front arm angle and keeps hands near shoulder.

Thanks HOF.

Good idea, Yankee. Thanks!

Hmmm... is it just me (firewall?) or in the "Loading Sequence" link above, are the images all missing? If so, I will try to fix tonight. Thanks.

Excellant article Sandman
Thanks for putting in all the work to make it easier on the rest of it. Now if you could only swing the bat for me, then we may have something.

Thanks spinedoc. Do the images show up in the article for you?

Sandman,

Thanks for the article. It explains things well and most folks here seem to agree with it.

At one point the article mentions staying tilted (shoulders over toes). That made me think of another question: What is the proper tehnique for getting the bat head down to a pitch at the knees?

I think most would agree that you tilt even more.

Loading is method for getting your weight moving before you launch your hips and hands at the baseball. we load the entire hitting block in a linear movement from weight in the middle to weight on the inside of the back foot. if the shoulders rotate too much you will have hand casters and arm bars which will cause too much barrel lag and premature hips (overrotation).

most of the problems in young hitters happens in the stride/or load (whichever you prefer).