Question on PG Ranking numbers.....

i have kids who are ranked but dont put too much stock into them whether high or low..as they say only kids and parents really care about those..i know thats not what your asking and i dont want to minimize what PG does but not sure any recruiter looks at rankings.

Well put whits! PG rankings are great, but player still needs to follow the plan and get seen.

One of the kids i am talking about was ranked at a certain number...made all tourney team and hit over .650 and dropped a spot..i then found out there are lots of guys tied at spots so no real rhyme or reason.  Some kids i think may be better are no where near him in rankings others who i dont think are near as good are ranked right with him..I am just glad he is ranked though. LOL I think the 1-10 scale they use is a little off..Plenty of kids with a 8 or 9 ranking who are not getting drafted which is what those numbers mean. 

Yep, numbers don't mean much if you aren't in the right place at the right time.

whits23,

Even though I’m definitely a stats guy, and that’s what we’re talking about, I have to agree with you about how much stock anyone should put in those rankings.

I have no idea how the data to compute the rankings is gathered, the skill of the person gathering that data, or the formulae being used to do the actual computations. But, since I have been doing baseball numbers for quite a while, I think its safe to say this much. The players who are ranked using only the same event(s) are likely ranked pretty well. That is to say, if Jim and Joe both got to a showcase in Tampa Fl., and are both position players and both paid the same fee, if Jim is ranked higher than Joe, I’d feel safe accepting that.

But, If Jim goes to an event in Tampa and Bill goes to one in Phoenix and another one in San Francisco, and they’re both ranked the same in the big PG mix, I’m not betting a lot of money that they’re equal. It would be the same thing for Jim to go to one Tampa and Tony to one in Chicago. Unless the same people were doing the evaluations, I’m not bettin’ the house on the results.

But, as I said, I don’t know how they go about generating the rankings, and I have to say I do have more confidence in PG’s ratings as opposes to what some other outfit like Baseball America might come up with. The trouble with rankings begins with having different people making the evaluations, and gets exacerbated each time a subjective decision is made.

What i understand is that at each tournament (not talking showcase but they may factor in) the guys doing the gamechanger are constantly making notes (not on the gamechanger) on players and what they see and how players do. I also know that for instance last year a kid was ranked 94th in a state and then did a verbal with a top school and his ranking went way up to like 4th. I think sometimes PG adjust on outside factors as well Also they can only rank players that they see so i am sure there are really good players they dont see.  

whits23,

Got two points to discuss with your post, but they’re kinda connected so bear with me.

There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that there are many factors considered that haven’t got a thing to do with “scoring” a game, and that can get confusing. There’s no way to evaluate what PG’s doing, but in all honesty that’s why they’re PG and not GM. Just like any company not making public how they make all the decisions they make, it wouldn’t be in PG’s best interest to make public what’s made them successful. I’d love to know because to me it would just be interesting, but there are those who love to have a chunk of that market, and stealing how it was done isn’t beyond imagination for me.

Another thing I don’t think people understand, is that PG isn’t using the same GameChanger some LL dad is using. If the LL dad is driving a Model T, PG’s driving a Bugatti Veyron. The reason is, there are things that need to be tracked from a scouting or evaluation standpoint that just aren’t necessary to post some stats that really have little meaning.

As I tried to get across earlier, the efficacy their player rankings depends greatly on how consistent the people they have making subjective evaluations from event to event is. I wouldn’t think they hire some guy with little experience in such things and not  much history in the game, but let’s face it, all “experts” aren’t equal, so the proof would be found in studying how those subjective decisions are made.

Couple things, college coaches/recruiters and MLB scouting departments do put a lot of stock in these rankings. After all it is identifying top players based on the opinions of those who have seen more of these players than anyone in the world.

Also, in order to get a good feel for the accuracy of these rankings simply do some research.  After all, we didn't just start doing them this year.  There is a long history behind the rankings and if they were just unimportant, no one would care.

Also, notice all the various lists that will follow will have pretty much the same names, moved around slightly.  Knowing that the people who do these lists have not seen all these players, where do you think those names are coming from? It has happened that way every year for a long time.

Now, the most important thing... If your player is not ranked accurately, it is not the end of the world.  Absolutely the high ranking creates tons of interest, every high ranked player knows this for a fact.  Being lower in the rankings or even being left out, will not stop anyone from moving up and/or being successful. From that standpoint the rankings don't mean that much.

However, we once saw a player who was very unknown nationally and ranked him in the 20+ area in the nation.  His very next game had 30+ scouts including a half dozen MLB National Scouting Directors.  So it is very obvious somebody is paying close attention. BTW, that same kid was drafted in the second round the following year.

The verbals do not cause us to rank someone higher.  They simply identify players, just like we identify players. Once identified we make it a point to "see" the player or "see" him again.  That is when we decide where to rank him.  Never has anyone went from 94 to #4 in the country based on him signing with a school.  When we rank someone #4 we are expecting him to be drafted in the first round. Could care less what college he has committed to, if any college.

Truth is and a little research will prove... we don't see every really good player in the country. However, we have seen pretty much every player that is drafted in the early rounds and have usually have them ranked accordingly.  We aren't pulling names out of a hat! This is the most important thing we do.  Just look at the rankings and look at the draft! 100% accuracy is impossible, you could put all 30 MLB scouting departments together and you will have different opinions.

You just have to follow the results.  They will tell you if the rankings are legitimate. Believe me, we follow the results very closely.

i think there is a lot we are saying that is reading between the lines..i am always open to give opinions via email but try to stick to facts in public postings..

The good and bad thing (depending on your rank) is no college or pro scout/recruiter goes by rankings. 

whits -- you seem to have an axe to grind. You completely ignore what PGStaff says.

I'll assume your son has a low ranking.

I said went from 94 to 4 IN STATE not nationally and maybe it would have happened anyway..

PG i am a big fan and spend most my summer at PG events so not anti PG but i think we have to be able to give our opinions or facts without being policed by PG..I could list some things that i think if i told you in private you would agree that are very odd regarding some rankings etc. I think most people are scared to mention rankings or their kids on these sites as they know PG looks at them and may or may not target their kid as  a result of what they say..I for one know thats not true as me and you have emailed back and forth several times.

My point is they dont offer scholarships or contracts on rankings 

My son has a very good ranking.and i think its sort of bush to go after a posters kid

I am happy to discuss this without my kid even being part of it..my point is not about my kid or any other and i dont grind any axe with PG..the teams i coach play in all of them and my kid who i dont coach does as well.   My money and my kids go to PG ;}

But i wont give my view or experience anymore since that is not allowed without being run off the board. see you later

Who's running you off the board? I just told you what it sounded like. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Apologies.

My point was if you say anything opposite of what PG says then people think you must be wrong..it could be guys are right about stuff even if they disagree with PG ...but no big deal.

 for the record.my kid does have a very good rating and i know how and when he got it...the hard part is to keep it... but i will say right now all recruiters are chasing arms..i am friends with several and they all tell me that right now its all about getting arms..they can fill in the blanks in the fall 

Just so we're clear ... am I wrong in my understanding that the ONLY way to get an actual PF numerical rating is to attend a PG Showcase? I know boys are rated in different ways ... like where they rank in their state and nationally ... and that can happen without a showcase appearance. But to get a PG grade requires a showcase appearance, I thought.  I ask because when you say you know where your son got his rating ... I'd just assume it is right there, attached to his showcase performance.

Not sure what numerical rating you are talking about, 1-10 maybe?   I am not sure what my sons 1-10 rating is or if he even has one, I do no have access to that subscription level.  I do know that PG has a ranking for him nationally and state and he has only participated in PG events and not a showcase...yet.

Yes he was Ranked a couple years ago..IE a number in state or nationally like the Follow or High Follow top 1000 etc...This year he went to a showcase and got a Numerical number IE Rating..SO i say ranking for tourney play and Rating for Showcase..I am sure its possible for the Rating IE showcase to help or hurt your Ranking but dont know for sure. You dont need a subscription to see your rating if you went to a showcase its all part of the deal.

When my kid was 15 he was playing in 18u 17u wwba and he had  a good game against 2 of the top teams in tournament both on offense and defense and that was when he got ranked. Mostly got a chance as another kid on team got hurt and he started in those games

It never hurts to make it to final 8 or 4 on east cobb on last day when all eyes are there and teams are loaded...

whit -- we're on the same page.

lefthookdad -- I am referring to the 1-10 rating. I thought everyone could see those ... whether paid subscribers or not. Maybe I'm wrong. But the only way, as I understand it, to even HAVE a 1-10 rating is to attend a PG Showcase.

i think everyone can see those as i can and i dont have a subscription other than the free one  and yes you pay to get those...whits23@aol.com

Gotcha.......wish it wouldn't have rained out this year, his team was on a good run, had the run continues he would have been slated to pitch inside the final 4 teams, I am sure another solid outing wouldn't have hurt his rating

We were not happy with the number or "follow" ranking as my son has beat out and played against others that are ranked higher, but it is what it is.  It is confirmation that he most likely should not target top D1 baseball schools, and that is ok.  He is getting interest from academic D1s, which may end up being the best option.    Seeing the broad PG number range of those going to good schools, (from a previous post by PG), is also very encouraging.  

raining hard now too...lot of kids who thought they would pitch this week may end up going home..teams with some very large rosters.   Should throw them all 2 innings and not worry about wins..let them hope someone see's them

In answer to your question, I believe the rating (numerical number 1-10) from PG is pretty accurate evaluation based upon future potential and I believe that college coaches and scouts do rely on this as a good evaluation for interest for HS players.  I know in my sons case this pretty much helped in his recruitment. If your son is a 9, 10, he should be getting  interest, if not from out of state then in state.

As far as getting drafted, my son was a 10 out of HS and not drafted as others with lower rating did.  My sons commitment to his college was very strong,  so a team banking on him signing would have a tough job to get him to sign.  I know the draft and scholarships have changed since then but reality is, it still means who will have 20 scouts/recruiters show up and who will not.

Out of college he was a second round pick, his ranking about the same as it was in HS so in his case the numbers did not lie.

Take all of this for what it is and as suggested do not waiver from your plan, however after all is said and done, sometimes this can help in reevaluating the recruiting plan if it is not working.  In other words, if you are rated 6-7, ranked well over 150+ nationally trying to get the attention of the CWS winner, it most likely isn't going to happen.

You don't have to be the best hitter or the best pitcher to receive a good rating, but rather skills and potential. Some people seem to think that if a pitcher wins every game he has ML or top D1 potential, it doesn't work that way.  

JMO 

i think that sums it up pretty well and pitching is a much different ball game..as u know.

2 kids throwing 85 could be totally different in movement on pitches and projections due to room for growth etc and 1 kid may have a much better change up than the other. Winning games does not matter as a good pitcher on a bad team can be seen as well as a good pitcher on a good team. The difference would be getting the kid seen as often.

 think some of the numbers seem a little high but the players of similar talent have same numbers..IE i see 3 pitchers i know very well  with an 8...that means div 1 or possible draft pick. I know those kids and they will end up DIV 3 at best HOWEVER the numbers are projections and some people dont understand the difference between projection and current. And as always i may be wrong..not all div 1 schools are the same level.

 I do not want to step on any toes but when kids are paying a lot of money to get a number ranking that is pretty accurate i think Most places not just PG will err on the high side as they dont want to ruin incoming money. On the flip side if a kid runs a 7.8 and is an OF it would be hard for them to rank them anything other than low.   I guess i would like to see a more rigid number system. Hell my kid got a number higher than i thought he would be the number is also the same as another kid with very similar talent so in that way its accurate. IMO

I am not all that familiar with other organizations and not have any reason to endorse PG, but I think their evaluations are pretty spot on.

Do they miss at times, yes I believe so. But a 7- 8 player going to a top D1 most likely would be much better off attending a smaller mid D1 in a good conference and better future potential to be drafted later on then sitting the bench waiting for more playing time.  I don't think that anyone would understand this unless they have attended one of those very high ranked D1 programs.  It is VERY difficult to compete at these programs. This has nothing to do with getting drafted out of college, 3,4 years later.

The rating and rankings are a great recruitment tool for HS players, and should be used as such. 

As a parent, it's important to place your opinions aside and let others who see hundreds of players year after year do the evaluation. 

hows everyone loving hotel life this summer LOL...rain and more rain

I will agree with your term spot on in the case of 9 and 10 ratings. 7 and 8s are a different matter especially if they are given at an underclass showcase. Too many  variables in an underclass showcase to relegate someone to a certain fate. If that were truly the case Evan Longoria would have given up, Mike Piazza would have never kept going and Tom Seaver would have stayed in the Marines. A rating is just a number to let you know where you stand in someones eyes at a particular time. Use it like a tool and don't get all caught up in numbers. Player and parent should be honest with themselves about performance and room for improvement.