Rawnsley article

In LL here, we put strong players in right field because that's where most of the balls are hit. The place to "hide" the weak guy is left field.

RF also has the longer throw (to third). Lots of coaches in hs here put their best outfielder in the sun field.

I'm interested in the article you mention, but the link did not work.

jemaz

I am with you-- we played the weaker player in LF and two strong players in CF and RF --in LL not too many kids pull the ball in the air

Jemaz,
The link is fixed now. If it still doesn't work for you, go to
www.perfectgame.org.
I think Rawnsley is focusing on MLB arm strength & accuracy here, assuming all other factors being equal.
I'd be willing to bet that the ratios referenced in the article hold true in LL as well, but I'd also concede that LL stats aren't available to back it up.

TR,
Not sure that I'd disagree about the fly balls in LL, but the question really concerns the greater number of balls hit to left field overall, at all levels.
Given a choice, would you rather have a RF who can throw runners out at third or a LF who can nail them at the plate?

At what level?

All too often we we generalize and it isnt so-- each level is different in terms of needs and talent

Right you are TR. Every coach has to evaluate his players and needs as he sees fit. Yet I see and hear alot of coaches that cite the longer throw to third being the main criteria for putting their best arm in right. That's what Rawnsely challenged in his piece. He based his argument on the 60/40 ratio of balls hit to left vs. right.
There are certainly lots of variables to consider when filling out the line up card. But if Rawnsely's ratios are correct based mostly on ratios of RH vs. LH hitters, why would they be any different from MLB to LL?
I'll ask again. All things considered, isn't the out at the plate just a little bit more important than keeping the runner from going first to third?

If you keep the runner from going from first to third you dont have to worry about the guy from third scoring

TR,
So you believe the strongest arm goes in right? So does my son, and I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong. In fact, it obviously works pretty well for teams that don't have a suspect arm in the outfield. But I'm more interested in debating the merits of Rawnsley's article. He's obviously seen more than his fill of MLB runners scoring unchallenged on playable balls to left. If his numbers are right, then what is wrong with his argument?
I myself absolutely love to see a cannon, like Guerrero or Ichiro, gun down an unsuspecting runner at third. But there's really no play more exciting, or meaningful, than a close one at the plate. Additionally, and I'll admit to playing both sides of the fence here, most sac flies are not going to be pulled, so the majority of fly balls will work against Rawnsley's ratios and be hit either to center or right fields.
But since you can't have it both ways, I'll stick with the old guard for now and favor the right field gun.
Still, if there is a distinct difference in arm strength, the logic of having your best arm used most frequently makes for a compelling argument.
Anybody else care to chime in?

David's article was meant more as a question than a fact. Personally, I disagree with his theory. That's why the story has the disclaimer attached.

David knew that old school people (like me) would disagree. It does get one to think though and I think that was his intent.

By the way, looking at MLB rosters these days will reveal nearly as many switch and left hitters as right handed hitters. This means there are probably more LH at bats than RH at bats due to the much higher percentage of RHPs.

If someone had the time to research it… it would be interesting to know the actual difference in the number of CHANCES between LF and RF.

I just did the research (kind of)

Top 22 LF and RF based on total chances in American League last year. Possibly could have positions screwed up slightly, but don't think so.

Of the top 22 - 13 were RFs. Using the top 9 RF vs the top 9 LF, here are the results...

Total Chances - RF 2492 - LF 2408
Assists - RF 72 - LF 58
Double Plays - RF 12 - LF 6
Errors - RF 34 - LF 38

Once again this was based on American League LF and RF last year. I threw out all CFs and those that played multiple outfield positions. Easily could have made a mistake along the way. #1 was Suzuki RF, #2 was Crawford LF.

Jerry,
Nice work. It's all about chances, and you've shown that Rawnsley's ratios likely don't hold true at the MLB level, though to be sure you'd want a larger sample. But it's late, and besides I believe it's now Mr. Rawnsley's turn to crunch numbers. You also pointed out that most MLB rosters are pretty well balanced. That's not likely the case at lower levels, so maybe Rawnsley's argument could still succeed there. Gonna be harder to prove though.

Not sure anything has been proven. However, the old school in me looks at it this way.

Outfielders throw to 2B, 3B and HP.

All things equal two of these are easy throws and 1 is a long throw for a LF. 1 is an easy throw and 2 are long throws for a RF.

David's opinion regarding the importance of the throw to home plate makes sense. I just don't agree with the 60-40 percentages. Also believe the throw to 3b from RF is a very important detail.

I think you will also find that the majority of outfielders at the college level were centerfielders or shortstops coming into college.

My son was a centerfielder all through HS but at the college level he played all three positions and his arm strength, or more the lack of great arm strength dictated what position he played depending on the make up of the opposing team. In fact there were days that he DH just because coach wanted more arm strength at all three outfield positions.

The outfield of our travel team is usally made up of centerfielders who quickly learn to play the outfield corners

Well so many coaches now are making there players hit to the opposite field that right field really has become a hot position...My sons High school coach does this constaintly and not just trying to hit behind the runners teaches it to be done all the time..

I have counted up how many balls (not just attempts) have been hit to left, right, and center over several seasons. At our level (hs), the fewest balls were hit to right field. So, in years when I have a weaker outfielder, wether it is fielding or arm strength, he is in right field. An ideal world would be to have scouting reports to see where the opp. hits the ball most often, but that is not a luxury that I have with most teams we play.

It would depend on age level and who's pitching!
For LL and a fast throwing pitcher, I would always put my best outfielder in Right. Along with a strong infield on the right side
Slower pitcher I would move him to center.
Most of the time in the younger age groups, you don't want them throwing the ball all over the place, which causes extra runs to come in.
As they get older than you let them cut it loose to third or home from the outfield.
Even in HS you have to know who your playing with, are they capable of digging a one bouncer out of the dirt.

QUESTION: What should an Outfielder in HS do. Make the throw to get the runner out at home or third base?
Or should he be conservetive and hit the shallow cutoff man.
Why I ask this, is that what your able to do in select ball with solid defensive players, your not always able to do with less talented players in HS. What should you Do. The EH

lol...not sure about your level of hs ball, but here we def. have the ability to throw the ball to any bag and if you have and infielder that can not handle a short hop, he does not need to play.

To answer the question.....We cut it loose, but we go through the cut off man to get there.

Your right, but thats the reality.
I'm not saying there bad, just not as good as some select players!
And should the Outfielder just go ahead and make the throw
and let what happen's Happen.
Are should he be more conservitive., and hit the shallow cut off.
which will limit the amount of run's that the other team could score on balls that are miss played.
Not all HS have a solid line up, up and down the roster.
Do you understand what i'm trying to say?
Example: son playing CF, runner's on 2nd and 1st.
Ball hit up the middle, has chance to throw runner at 2nd out at home. Does he throw home and risk extra run on passed ball, are hit shallow cutoff to keep runner's at 3rd and 1st?
I know that you normally would hit the 1st baseman covering the middle infield, but even that could be missplayed.
Which happened last weekend 1st base had ball skip off top of glove and ball was on line for the out at the plate, and coach yelled hit cutoff man. Whats a outfielder to do? The EH

imo, you play the game the way its meant to be played. Throw the ball to the base. If you hop it 2 feet in front of him, its not a great throw. A good hop will hit about 10 feet in front of the fielder. Assuming a good hop (and I know that on our home field, that's a big assumption!!), then the fielder should have no problem establishing a good position on the base, and catch the ball cleanly and apply a quick tag.
I love working on that kind of stuff!
And I wouldn't say that if a kid can't make the play, he "does not need to play". That's a bit strong to me. I would take it upon myself to try to get him more practice at it. Give him 50 reps a day, and in a week, he'll be much, much better.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
Example: son playing CF, runner's on 2nd and 1st.
Ball hit up the middle, has chance to throw runner at 2nd out at home. Does he throw home and risk extra run on passed ball, are hit shallow cutoff to keep runner's at 3rd and 1st?
I know that you normally would hit the 1st baseman covering the middle infield, but even that could be missplayed.
Which happened last weekend 1st base had ball skip off top of glove and ball was on line for the out at the plate, and coach yelled hit cutoff man. Whats a outfielder to do? The EH

TheEH,

The answer is that the throw should have been to home, and it needs to be at a heighth that the 1B can cut if need be. If that was the case in the play you described, then the coach was correcting the wrong player. Was the 1B in position and moving to a good fielding position while the ball was in the air? Did the catcher call for the ball to be cut either because it was off line ("cut 4") or because the runner had already beaten the throw ("cut 2" or "cut 3" or just "cut it").

It is the CF's responsibility to throw to the proper base at a trajectory that can be cut if needed. But it is not the OF's resposibility to see if the other players are where they are supposed to be. There is no time. He is focused on the ball and comes up throwing. The OF knows where the cut man should be...but it's the 1B's responsibility to get to the cut spot and the pitcher's job to back up home.

Rules of thumb...

Ball hit in front of OF (OF coming towards infield to throw), throw it to the proper base so that it is head high as it goes past the cut off man spot.

Ball hit past OF (OF going away from infield to get ball before the throw), turn and throw it to the relay man (cut off man becomes relay man when he is the target for the OF).

I think your son did the right thing. Most coaches don't focus too much on OF play (and, as it was suggested before, most OF's are converted infielders who were not taught to play OF). "Hit the cut off man" is often heard but it's not always the OF's mistake.

Mike F

Thanks Mike F.
That was the answers I was looking for.
Just make the proper throw and let what happens, happen.