Skip to main content

13 replies

Realistic and truthful objectives

GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
We just got back from a tournament and was displeased overall with what our son got out of the weekend. We feel that it was one of those cases where we would have been better off staying home, catching a movie or something.

Leading up to the tournament we had several offers to play with different teams each one having different objectives. One team was going to the Sophmore fall classic in Arizona. We declined that on grounds of it being too much money for what objectives were offered with our son being only a freshman. Another team asked him to play and their sole objective was to win the tournament they were entering. We declined on that one because of the other opportunity that came along. That opportunity was to play with an older team with the objective as being both competetive and "experience". We accepted this offer and were told that our son would gain a great experience playing up along with the competition we would be playing with. Everything went fairly well with what the coaches did to help with the "experience" factor including getting sponsors to pay for a van for the team to travel in, hotel costs, professional looking uniforms, etc. When we arrive to the game however we find out that there are now 15 kids on the team and they are there "to win". So, our son along with several others that the coach doesn't really know talent wise get benched most of the tournament. Our son along with several others get less than 25% playing time. We end up not winning, not even make it to the championship round and in the end the coaches are still speaking of "experience".

I may just be venting here but it seems that coaches need a better outlook and more realistic approach on true objectives and be more honest with players coming in. As parents perhaps we need to let these coaches know our displeasure in their lack of honesty. But, at the same time does it place us in the position of being the type of parents that coaches fear? If we knew our son would get very limited time on a team whose sole objective was to win with no regards to everyones own objectives and goals we would have never joined with this team. We have limited resources ($$) and so it makes this more difficult because we placed a lot of personal objectives and goals on this tournament- goals that the coaches told the kids they would achieve.

Do I have the right to vent to these coaches and the community where we live so this doesn't happen again to other unsuspecting parents and players, or is this just another one of those common cases of coaches eyeing the big "win" and honestly forgets the true objectives?
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
This baseball world is very small indeed and it will not be advantageous to your son to burn any bridges, especially in a public forum. Been there, done that...

Sorry to hear of your disappointing weekend. It is hard to get a team to perform to their highest level if the players do not hope or expect to win. That said, most showcase teams that we have been associated with split time fairly evenly.
Last edited by floridafan
Three BaggerThree Bagger1,000+ posts
Gingerbread Man,

I would just chalk this one up to a learning experience for yourselves and like floridafan said--don't burn any bridges. If you complain too much, right or not, you'll come across as "one of those parents". What you could do in the future is ask the coaches how much playing time they expect your son to get or what his role will be in the tournament. When I coached travel teams several years ago, If someone asked I tried to be honest with them in case they had other opportunities. One thing you will see in the next few years is that there will be various disappointments in this journey and you can't let them get you down. Good Luck!
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
GM,
Just so you don't feel badly, probably 80% of us here have experienced some disappointment in youth baseball or sports in general.

I remember when son was 13 going on 14, our league (newly formed) entered 2 teams of the best players for a tournament. My son was placed on the "elite" team (the best players in the league) he spent the entire time on the bench and we paid the same as everyone else. Yes, his team won the championship, but he could have been "playing" on the other team with the lessor talented players. May not be the same, but it was a lesson learned. This guy touted come play for his league, would enter great tournies, he would be instrumental in getting kids noticed before they entered HS, all he did was take the money.

All sports, no matter how you slice it, is about winning, the higher your son moves up, the more intense the winning becomes.

I am a strong beleiver that until your son makes HS varsity, much of this really doesn't matter, he'll gain his experience on the playing field. I also beleive that he's best to play with his peers, because unless he's a phenom, the younger guys sit the bench. We used to play same age but within an older league.

Travel ball is a business, for many coaches the object is, to make money. You learned a lesson, like many of us have, I would let it go at that. Next time do some homework on who you are playing for (and who you are paying money to) and their real objective (which is usually winning), so you won't be disappointed.
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
BTW, they did tell my son going in that he would get playing time and it would be an overall good experience for him. Heck, we been gettin good experiences all summer playing up with older kids, it wasn't like they were doing the kids any special favor by placing them on this team, they would have either played on this team or another team. The kids chose this team because of the experience they were led to believe- not in what they actually got.
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
TPM,

I agree with you on those points. One of the objectives we had in playing on this team was to gain more experience that would get him up to that level to play on the varsity team in the spring- to see where he stacked up and where he needed to improve over the off season this winter. In the few practices the team had our son showed he was as good as everyone else on the team. I feel the coach chose the kids he personally knew and paid them special attention over others. I realize there are politics on every team and I guess I should have gone with the general rule here and just had him play with his peers instead. A lesson learned for sure.
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
GBM, first of all, as others have said, I would not say anything and chalk this up to experience. You really do not want to alienate yourself and your son for the future.

Secondly, don't let this discourage you from trying to help your son accomplish his goals. Unfortunately, you may never know what you are getting yourself into. You can ask the questions, but you never know.

My son and I have found teams on a couple of occasions and while not totally disappointed with either, we had a bit of a different experience with both. The first one we did was last fall at the WWBC Underclass in Ft. Myers. I asked about son getting play time in the field and was told he would. Turned out, he got no play time in the field. That was the bad part. On the good side, he pitched their opening game, going 5 innings of no-hit, 1 unearned run ball. Two days later, he pitched 1 2/3 innings for the save in a playoff game. If you take those 6 2/3 innings, it may wind up to be around 25% of the time. I was pretty OK with it.

The second time we did it was at the CABA World Series at ECB. He pitched the team's opening game again, throwing a complete game win. Took the next day off due to resting up and the next day played two games at SS. We had to leave the tournament early (they knew this ahead of time), but he had a lot of fun.

My point is that good things can come of this even though it didn't work out the way you wanted to this time. Realize though that most of the time you hook up with another team, they are looking for specific fill in spots. Usually pitchers. I really wouldn't expect to play all the time in any of these situations. Be grateful for the experience. Look to see how you stack up and maybe look to permanently get on a team that is going to the type of events you are interested in getting exposure at.

Good luck the next time around.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
The baseball world is a small world. And the longer your son plays the smaller it will get. You will be surprised to find that it is actually a very small world if he plays past the hs ranks. I have found myself in situations over the years where I felt something was bogus. I have been ticked off a couple of times. But from knowing from past experiences how small the baseball world is and from learning from other experiences I used it as an opportunity to take the high road. The last thing any parent wants to do is hurt their own child. Yes you want to go off on someone. Yes you want to set the record straight. Yes you want to come to your kids defense. Of course your a parent, we all are. But in the long run if you handle these types of situations with class and simply say "Thanks for the opportunity" you end up earning YOUR son points in the baseball world instead of leaving a sour taste in someone's mouth.

I could give numerous examples of what I am talking about but I think you get my point. Even though we are right sometimes , sometimes the best road to take is "Thanks" and move on. Maybe one day this guy is in a position to help your son. Maybe he remembers the way you handled the situation and were thankful for the opportunity. And maybe he makes a call for your boy or gives him another opportunity where he is one of the guys that has to be in the line up? Maybe he knows someone that knows someone that knows someone?

Nothing positive comes from leaving a negative impression on those that believe they gave you something of value even though you didn't see it that way. The baseball world shrinks as our kids continue in the game. We as parents want to assist them in any way we can. And we certainly do not want to do anything ever to hurt them. Try to look at the positives how small they may be from this experience. And forget about the negatives. Leave a good impression on everyone you meet in this game. You never know when they will come back around down the road.

JMHO
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
Gingerbreadman,

I think you got some great insight here from TPM, Coach May and others.

Sometimes you just get skunked - and thats that.

You get a little smarter each time - and then you take the plunge again.

And make no mistake about this - as you get up in the levels - as TPM pointed out - it gets worse.

You son will go to some great places and have some great experiences - and he will go to some places and have nightmares.

There are so many great experiences I can remember - PG events - College Select events - Roberto Clemente events - and there are so many nightmares as well.

The one that still sticks in my mind and best exemplifies the spirit of the whole deal is this one.

Son went to a showcase event - and played very well.
His team was challenging the host team. The host team also happened to have been put together by the organizer of the event. My son - despite being injured - hit and ran them into oblivion.

When it was over - the organizer - publicly - indicated that my son was a dog - who didnt play hard. He was upset that my son made his team look like tee ballers.

I was upset that he hammered my son publicly.

Here's the main point of this rambling message:

When I let my son know what happened - he just laughed and said "Dad - next time I play them - I will make them look even worse".

That is the spirit a player needs as he goes through this journey. Wherever it leads and for as long as it lasts. And it isnt so bad - IMO - if the parent embraces the same spirit as well.

My best to you and your son - and remember to tell him to always play hard and always have fun!
Last edited by itsinthegame
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
GBM,

Obviously I can't speak to whether your son got less playing time than promised, but here's what experience has taught me.

As players get older, the makeup and goals of teams change drastically from the sort of thing seen with 12 or 13 year old players. Most team's roster sizes increase substantially. USA Baseball has a 16U tourney in AZ/FL, and the minimum allowable roster is 15. Teams which expect to do well in the tournament carry 18-20 players. Obviously the average play time is around 50%, and some players will be at 25% or less. Most of the successful teams at WWBA tournaments carry at least that many.

Of course players still want to play, but a significant goal for the player is to gain exposure to college coaches. The coaches of the better teams have a variety of goals, but a major goal is to get exposure for their players, and to facilitate finding a next level opportunity that matches the players' talents. Usually the result is a disparity in playing time, with players who expect a disparity.

For most players, choosing a team involves a tradeoff. One approach is to go with a team on which the player will see constant action, but the team probably isn't top level, and the exposure offered is so-so. Or, go with top team, and accept that the player will be e.g. pitcher only, or playing first base instead of catcher, or perhaps playing left bench much of the time.

Around here, with undoubtably a larger population of players, teams are setup in the fall for the following summer. Picking and choosing on a weekly or monthly basis which team to play with isn't a practical approach.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
gonyardgonyard10+ posts
GB, Save what was posted here as these words are invaluable.

I have gone through this and have seen it first hand. The best you can do is ask the questions. That is fair. I have found that having my son play with the best and also at times be second fiddle has helped his development more than being the "guy". This is especially true if y0u have coached him in the youth years.

Do not get me wrong though, it is very important to have self confidence from being the guy at times, so you have to balance this out.

Key with selecting a club is the coach and his network of contacts. Do your homework and try to get
jr with a guy that sends kids to the next level. In the end sitting the bench once in awhile for that guy is not so bad cause he can comment on attitude.

By the way the young guys almost always pay dues on the bench so make sure it is with a solid program where when jr is a junior his play time will come.

Add Reply

Post
.

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×